Yeah ok, he does have a really big job in front o' him.

But give the man some credit, at least he sees the problems and admits 'em, which's a real good sign. He also admits Cingular isn't the best right now.

Now, if he's was blowin' some smoke 'bout how they're the best already an' that there's no problems, then I'd be thinkin' Cingular is done for. But he's not. An' he's got a good plan seems like. Whether he can really make it all happen, I don' know.

You're right 'bout the 'end of 2007' thing tho'. Even if everything goes Cingular's way, they admit they won't be best in class fo' 2 more years (at least), so I'm goin' with someone else 'till then.

I do respect his candor. Although how could he possibly blow smoke. His "candor" has enough credibility issues as I noted. his plan will HAVE to include the slowing down of Verizon and erosion of Verizon on many metrics.

Its like saying we can win even though we are behind 24 points at the half. The only way that can happen is if you can force a few fumbles THEN take the ball in. I don't think Verizon will fumble the ball and is on a scoring tear. 2007 is very close.

You see Verizon HAS to FAIL in order for Cingular to meet that lofty goal. Even IF Cingular has as good a network and better phones. (Well we all can see where better phones have got them).

I do see Verizon becoming the "Carrier to have"

That said Verizon's crippli...
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TenMidgits said:
Which begs the question:
How can Cingular catch up if Verizon does not slow down?

If Verizon doesn't slow down, then no, they probably can't catch up in net adds or churn, and Verizon will inevitably pass 'em and get the #1 spot back.

But what I get from Sigman's comments is he thinks that by the end o' '07, they'll have a network in place that's as good as Verizon's. The 3G high-speed one, I gather.

That network is s'posed to be really reliable too, so again from Sig's comments, that's s'posed to solve their churn and customer service probs too. 'cus if the network is Verizon-reliable then people won't leave in busloads like they're doin' now, and if the network is reliable, custom...
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SystemShock said:

TenMidgits said:
Which begs the question:
How can Cingular catch up if Verizon does not slow down?

If Verizon doesn't slow down, then no, they probably can't catch up in net adds or churn, and Verizon will inevitably pass 'em and get the #1 spot back.

But what I get from Sigman's comments is he thinks that by the end o' '07, they'll have a network in place that's as good as Verizon's. The 3G high-speed one, I gather.

That network is s'posed to be really reliable too, so again from Sig's comments, that's s'posed to solve their churn and customer service probs too. 'cus if the network is Verizon-reliable then people won't leave in busloads like they're doin' now,

...
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TenMidgits said:
I will be the first to say IF Cingular has equal service reliability. I will port back in a heartbeat in 2007.

I myself wouldn't go to them in '07 if all they got is equal reliability. 'cus if I still have to call customer service an' I get a angry unhelpful CS rep 'cus Cingular still hasn't fixed their CS, I don' need that static.

Well, we ARE ADDING more than VZW. We are not keeping those customers and that's our main problem. All we have to do is improve our network even more and churn will slowly go down. Sigman said it: We are adding more customers than VZW. So, we are on the right track; I know we are. Every day I talk to custs who have noticed our improvement after the merger with ATT, and these cust's when asked they said that after noticing this improvement they are seriosly considering staying.

BeachSlapped said:
Every day I talk to custs who have noticed our improvement after the merger with ATT, and these cust's when asked they said that after noticing this improvement they are seriosly considering staying.

Sure bro, I believe ya, but that isn't bein' reflected in the churn numbers.

Cingular's churn rate actually went up last quarter, from 2.2 percent to 2.3 percent. Still a long road ahead, I think.

Stan sigman is going to go down as one of the worst CEO's of all time. He might even beat out C.Michael Armstrong; the moron that led to AT&T's demise. This Idiot doesnt seem to know how to keep anyone. Employees are leaving in droves, or want to. So are customers. And now the only link to sanity and calming, are his loyal Indirect dealers, most of which were brought over from AT&T. He's getting rid of all of them 12/31/2005. In the words of that Napolean Dynamite guy my daughter loves...IDIOT! I was all for getting rid of the Indirects that dont really know what thyre doing or have bad churn. But dont get rid of your loyal Exclusives that have stayed with you through this whole mess. This "Idiot" just got rid of 60% of his activating base; ...
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PeakCelln said:
And now the only link to sanity and calming, are his loyal Indirect dealers, most of which were brought over from AT&T.

Maybe that's why he's gettin' rid o' them?

Maybe he had that planned from the start. ☹️

I'm a dealer and I'm not going anywhere. You have your information all wrong. From now on, only exclusive dealers will get Cingular exclusive phones. People like Simply Wireless who sell multiple carriers will not. Examples are the Black RAZR and the ROKR.

SystemShock said:
I think thats a fair point. The media does love to build people or companies up, then tear 'em down.

Ta be fair tho', Cingular did it to themselves some too. They didn't mind the gettin' all the merger hype when it happened, and their ads seemed to imply that they'd be 'all that' really quick. Then it didn't happen, and the media is now askin' some tough questions.

Sigman is bein' smart 'bout it though. He's usin' the media to reset expectations. The 'best in class by end of 2007' stuff he's sayin' is actually real smart. He's tellin' em "Chill, we got this, jus' give us some time."

Stan said the exact same thing about being best of class 2007 when the merger began. Nothings changed...
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CamelTowing said:

SystemShock said:
I think thats a fair point. The media does love to build people or companies up, then tear 'em down.

Ta be fair tho', Cingular did it to themselves some too. They didn't mind the gettin' all the merger hype when it happened, and their ads seemed to imply that they'd be 'all that' really quick. Then it didn't happen, and the media is now askin' some tough questions.

Sigman is bein' smart 'bout it though. He's usin' the media to reset expectations. The 'best in class by end of 2007' stuff he's sayin' is actually real smart. He's tellin' em "Chill, we got this, jus' give us some time."

Stan said the exact same thing about being best of class 2007 w

...
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hey, at least the cingular's exec talked to mention what the problems are and how to tackle them... lets hope that cingular can fix it around or else verizon will be number 1 in 2006.

Oh I said the same thing nextel. I actually congratulated the man on admittin' all the problems and bein' honest on where they were really at.

I'm jus' not a hunn'd percent sure he was exactly like dat back in '04.

yea, i agree.

problem is.. can he turn this company around and could the company be successful against verizon, sprint and tmobile? could hsdpa, push to talk, completion of the integration, and others could help be a catalyst making cingular out of this little funk that they are having with declining subcriber growth per quarter?

time will tell..

he shows a lot of guts, and i praise him for that. 🙂

I think he probably will turn it around, at least enough so's Cingular is competitive, instead o' gettin' smoked like they are now.

Thing is, I don' think he's gonna get 'em turned around in time to stop Verizon from re-taking the #1 spot. Seems like a lotta folks agree, if'n you check out the RCR News poll:

http://www.rcrnews.com/pollResults.cms »

Right now you got 62% of folks expectin' Verizon to "definitely" re-take #1, with only 15% sayin' "No way".

So the expectations fo' Cingular are not so good right now, which is why Sigman was smart to re-set expectations with his "We'll be great by end of 2007" comments. People can buy into that story, 'cus it makes a lot mo' sense than sayin' "We're great NOW, and there's no problems" ...
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very true....


well, i did my methodolgy on phonescoop about what i feel about what will happen with this quarter of 2005 and next year and i mentioned that according to those numbers, verizon will be ahead of cingular at the end of 2006. then obviously people didnt think so for all sorts of reasons lol...

i think you saw it...

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »

just one mistake, however...

" If Verizon outpaces Cingular again in 2006 by 2.5 million subscribers for the year (in 2006) that would mean that Verizon would have the lead in the top 1 spot in 2006 because Verizon would have 57.9 million and Cingular would have 57.3 million subscribers at the end of 2006. "

it didnt matter if verizo...
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You definitely like the stats, bro. An' I agree wit' your conclusion. But I'm not sure 'bout your prediction for quarter 4 of this year.

Cingular might get 1 million net adds in quarter 4 like you say, 'cus Christmas is traditionally the busiest quarter, but why would Verizon get only 1.6m, if they got 1.9m in both quarters 2 and 3?

Seems with things pickin' up fo' Xmas, Verizon would a threat to break 2 million. Jus' my take on it.

yea, i love stats becuase you cant argue them. 🙂

well, i was just taking what they have been averaging over the 3 quarters, it isnt really taken on any future trends, just past ones.
verizon could perhaps get 2 million, but as i just pointed out it is just an averaged figure of what both verizon and cingular have been doing over the 3 quarters...

nothing more...

food for thought..
cingular in quarter 4 of 2004 got 1.8 million subscribers. (but this is a combination of att wireless also)

verizon in quarter 4 of 2004 got 1.7 million subscribers...

(information was taken from their website)

----

so there is some facts that i love, but we will find out soon becuase the 4th quarter is almost over.. (december 30th, fr...
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Yeah, but quarter 4 2004 wuz the merger quarter obviously. Like you've said, Cingular's been trendin' downward ever since, an' now are at about half the net adds they had back then.

Oh n' bro, you can always argue stats, 'cus o' things like methodology and context. Though that can be a pain. 🙂

yea.. so who knows if cingular would do well in this final quarter.

well yea, you can always argue stats but if you are arguing in the contrary with what the person is trying to say then basically you are setting yourself up to look like a fool...

basically if you have a sound opinion with facts it is hard to argue to the contrary.

thats my point. 🙂

Yeah, I agree wit' that. If someone has an opinion based on facts n' stats, n' your tryin' to shout em down only cus' you don' like what they're sayin, well thats jus facts vs emotion, and emotion deserves to lose then.

I scope the point.

Sigmon is probably just trying to save his job. You would have to be blind to not see that the Cingy ship is sinking and he is at the helm. It's time for another CEO change!

getgsm said:
Sigmon is probably just trying to save his job. You would have to be blind to not see that the Cingy ship is sinking and he is at the helm. It's time for another CEO change!

You'd think they'd give him at least until 'end of 2007/early 2008' to finish executin' his plan, an' then judge him by how well that goes, wouldn't ya?

After all, Sigman's sayin' that thas' how long it'll take to get it together, an' from what everyone else is sayin', 3 years after a merger is 'bout how long it DOES take, historically.

What'd suck fo' Stan is if his plan works but he gets fired before it does an' the new guy gets the credit. But thas' jus' speculation.

yea, end of 2007 early 2008 is too late.

SystemShock said:

getgsm said:
Sigmon is probably just trying to save his job. You would have to be blind to not see that the Cingy ship is sinking and he is at the helm. It's time for another CEO change!

You'd think they'd give him at least until 'end of 2007/early 2008' to finish executin' his plan, an' then judge him by how well that goes, wouldn't ya?

After all, Sigman's sayin' that thas' how long it'll take to get it together, an' from what everyone else is sayin', 3 years after a merger is 'bout how long it DOES take, historically.

What'd suck fo' Stan is if his plan works but he gets fired before it does an' the new guy gets the credit. But thas' jus' speculation.

...
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CamelTowing said:

SystemShock said:

getgsm said:
Sigmon is probably just trying to save his job. You would have to be blind to not see that the Cingy ship is sinking and he is at the helm. It's time for another CEO change!

You'd think they'd give him at least until 'end of 2007/early 2008' to finish executin' his plan, an' then judge him by how well that goes, wouldn't ya?

After all, Sigman's sayin' that thas' how long it'll take to get it together, an' from what everyone else is sayin', 3 years after a merger is 'bout how long it DOES take, historically.

What'd suck fo' Stan is if his plan works but he gets fired before it does an' the new guy gets the credit.

...
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Regardless, VZW got away with a lot of stuff that (if happened to Cingy) would've hindered any other carrier's future growth, ie: crippling a phone function that everyone is looking forward to because you think a consumer can get one over on you OR having your CEO say something in public like, "We don't care if your cell phone works in your house (even though that is one bone of contention on every consumer's minds especially if their business is their cellphone).

Being a Nextel afficianado (because I used to own a business that sold both Nextel and Bellsouth Mobility/Cingy, I made more money from Nextel) I really don't have an opinion on either of their outcomes, however, I do dislike the beatings that Cingy takes...

dca said:
Regardless, VZW got away with a lot of stuff that (if happened to Cingy) would've hindered any other carrier's future growth, ie: crippling a phone function that everyone is looking forward to because you think a consumer can get one over on you OR having your CEO say something in public like, "We don't care if your cell phone works in your house (even though that is one bone of contention on every consumer's minds especially if their business is their cellphone).

Imagine that? I to am incensed at the Verizon CEO's statements and especially their handling of the BT standard. BUT DESPITE those very public issues (and the recent loss of the V710 BT lawsuit) Verizon still claims more new custome...
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Indeed, and it will boil down to, not who's best, but who happens to be better than everything else avail to me in this region. Kind of like settling for something... Hey! I keep getting issues on my VZW bill OR that CSR when I called about my phone doesn't know s*** but I'll be darned, they're still better than Cingy or Sprint or T-Mo...

I gotta agree wit' that. Verizon's cripplin' of bluetooth is stupid, and somethin' theyre s'posedly re-thinkin, since they're releasing a new Nokia with UNcrippled bluetooth this month. Or so the story goes.

An' the Verizon CEO sayin' that people shouldn't expect their cellphones to work indoors is really dumb too. Most of the people I know who have Verizon keep it in part 'cus it DOES work real well in their house or inside the building where they work.

Verizon got lucky on both those screw-ups cus

1) the average person don' really know or care about BT
2) most people didn't hear the Verizon's CEO's dumbass comment. And even if dey DID, their Verizon service probably works indoors (all my friends do), so they don' care what he sa...
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Thats it, exactly! Those are just two screw-ups off the top of my head... I know I can remember more back from when I actually sold service for their competitors...

What the heck, its been a long time since VZW's been scrutinized for anything rediculous they've done. For the mean time, I feel, they are taking everyone's pissed off subscribers, from every carrier. Once these people realize that VZW suffers from similar shortcomings they'll feel compelled to switch to somebody else...

I kinda doubt it. Like Cingular's CEO says, Verizon's network is kinda the benchmark right now. Plus they're consistently at or near the top o' all of those JD Power and Consumer Reports surveys on stuff like call quality, customer service, etc.

Then you look at Verizon's really low churn rate, an' you see that they're KEEPIN' the pissed-off switchers from other carriers. Don' really think that's gonna change anytime soon, unless Verizon's CS or reliability goes belly-up alluva sudden.

You do have to realize, though, that those "pissed-off switchers" would still be under contract right now and will be for about another year.

I'm not saying that all of them will leave because the majority of them probably won't. What I am saying is that it will be interesting to see if VZW's churn numbers stay this low going forward from 4th quarter of 2006. I think they will stay that low, but it will be interesting to see.

It was mentioned elsewhere and scorned at by the TROLLS but the majority of churn is coming from the ATTWS side. They are coming off contract and many want to switch.

I will not sit here and say "see you when you come back..." like some others but THIS WAS FULLY EXPECTED. For those who think this purchase of ATTWS was just about customers and being number one they continue to be wrong. They bought spectrum and POPS for growth, something they didn't have and couldn't buy from the FCC (unless they wanted to WAIT and get further behind). They knew they would lose customers.

I can tell you in North Texas we have EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE churn goals of 1.5% that are being beat by Orange agents. While they do not publish churn on Orange vs....
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I like what I read I believe in my "opinion" He was saying that Cingulars short fall was with Customer service, and yes They were behind Verizon, But there overall "Phone coverage" was just as good as Verizon, as there were no holes in coverage?

Customer service was more defined as telephone support:ie billing, tech support questions, ETC.

Did I read into that right?

I don' think he was sayin' it was jus' customer service. He pretty much admitted their network wasn't as good as Verizon's yet:

I don't think it's time for us to go out touting on a national basis that we have the best network until we do have the best network. I know where our network stacks up. There's absolutely no reason why we can't have as good a network as Verizon has. If we don't, we failed to execute.

The part where he talks' bout coverage an' holes is referrin' to the 3G (high-speed) network. But he also admits that they're about 12 to 18 months behind Verizon in gettin' it out.

On customer service, I thought he was jus' vague. He talks 'bout givin' customers a service summary that explains all the c...
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