For our friend the phonepimp
.D. Power and Associates’ 2004 Wireless Call Quality Performance Study provided most carriers with something to brag about, as four of the six nationwide operators posted high scores for at least one of the six regions the marketing firm included in the study.
J.D. Power and Associates noted the study employs a call-quality index based on experiences reported by 21,700 wireless users across seven customer-reported problem areas impacting overall carrier performance, including static/interference, connection on first try, voice distortion, no echoes, dropped/disconnected calls, no immediate voice mail notification and no immediate text message notification.
The survey shined brightest on Verizon Wireless, Sprint PCS and T-Mobile USA Inc.,...
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J.D. Power and Associates noted the study employs a call-quality index based on experiences reported by 21,700 wireless users across seven customer-reported problem areas impacting overall carrier performance, including static/interference, connection on first try, voice distortion, no echoes, dropped/disconnected calls, no immediate voice mail notification and no immediate text message notification.
The survey shined brightest on Verizon Wireless, Sprint PCS and T-Mobile USA Inc.,...
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The report is bogus 😁
ONCE the merger goes through Cingular will rule. It's a fact, it's proven by scientists whose studies are recorded in the magazine "The Future Times."
ONCE the merger goes through Cingular will rule. It's a fact, it's proven by scientists whose studies are recorded in the magazine "The Future Times."
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Yes, but you've already stated that i'm a dumbass on everything i've said. So, what would like you to bash me on this time?
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Oh thats nothing Schnoze, in the MetroPCS forum I was bashed by ash as well for no good reason
...ash... said:
you are so incredibly ****y.... i love following your paper trail of arrogance. it does smell like limberger cheese though so i'm gonna ditch out for awhile, as my eyes are tearing up.
stop being so full of yourself, it is so annoying
...ash... said:
you are so incredibly ****y.... i love following your paper trail of arrogance. it does smell like limberger cheese though so i'm gonna ditch out for awhile, as my eyes are tearing up.
stop being so full of yourself, it is so annoying
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It would be ok if ash bashed the info we give not the person giving it. I can't think of time in the VZW forum where she gave info and not bashed someone because their a dumbass, or ****y, or obnoxious. Most of the time we're joking around and ash just seems so anal that she can't tell sarcasm or a joke.
Oh, you are ****y 🤣
Oh, you are ****y 🤣
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i think all i did was ask a question, but i can double check to see if maybe "do you work in wireless" has a double meaning or hidden agenda... yikes.
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you actually seem nice today. Yes it was a question but all your questions have hidden agendas, so why wouldn't I assume this one doesn't? All your statements are of insult, so why wouldn't I assume by conclusion that the question you stated has an agenda to insult?
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schnozejt said:
you actually seem nice today. Yes it was a question but all your questions have hidden agendas, so why wouldn't I assume this one doesn't? All your statements are of insult, so why wouldn't I assume by conclusion that the question you stated has an agenda to insult?
ok ok i will clarify. i hate phonepimp, he just drives me nuts. i can apologize until the cows come home... but i am just being honest. i seriously have no beef with anyone else at all, and i have no beef with any carrier except cingular- which i admit is pretty groundless because it's based on cingular- as presented by phonepimp. you know what i mean?
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Understandable...he does sometimes come off with a "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to Cingular...no offense PP but it's true
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schnozejt said:
Ok, sorry for the assumptions. I do work for the wireless industry.
that's ok. i don't want everyone to hate me... sorry if i come off rude (obviously i'm not apologizing to everyone though..) 🙂 i think i come off defensive because i am the only female at my store.. it's hard to explain, but it is a bit daunting. plus, i just want to learn more about wireles... it's so weird to me because i am the last person i would ever expect to even care about anything beyond "will my phone work?". apart from my coworkers, i don't have any friends who know anything about wireless other than "DUDE why does your phone have 4 bars and mine won't connect?! I f'in hate -insert carrier-!!! hey ash, toss me a ...
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More than likely because phoneP is 100% sure, not even 99% that:
- 1. There will be no billing errors.
2. There will be no system errors.
3. The merge will make them #1, hands down; yeah the numbers support it, but it's the FUTURE. We'll have to wait and see.
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exactly...and if he would claim that they would have no billing issues or network issues, I would go to Mass. myself and slap him, using his own hand "quit hittin yourself, quit hittin yourself"
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schnozejt said:
The report is bogus 😁
ONCE the merger goes through Cingular will rule. It's a fact, it's proven by scientists whose studies are recorded in the magazine "The Future Times."
Are you sure you don't mean "The Journal of Irreproducible Results?" 🤣
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I went to Miss Cleo's library and checked out those readings and it looks like the same scientists publish for both magazines.
Also lilgabe, Mr. J.D. and Mr. Power has no credibility whatsoever. They have stock in Verizon that's why they have such a bias. There are no independant, honest, non biased tests out there except the 60 minutes or Dateline or 20/20 show that showed Cingular as being #1 also the article posted by phonepimp that also shows Cingular as being #1; those are the only two real test--all others are a waste of human effort.
Also lilgabe, Mr. J.D. and Mr. Power has no credibility whatsoever. They have stock in Verizon that's why they have such a bias. There are no independant, honest, non biased tests out there except the 60 minutes or Dateline or 20/20 show that showed Cingular as being #1 also the article posted by phonepimp that also shows Cingular as being #1; those are the only two real test--all others are a waste of human effort.
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you know although the email is laced with sarcasm you are very true...PP, although rather knowledgable, basically says that anything that comes out that shows VZW as #1 is bias and that it can't be accepted as proof of our network...but when he comes out with something from telehpia or whatever the hell it's like he got it from "The Hand of God" Isn't it Ironic....don't you think?
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Okay, let's clarify something right now: Verizon uses drive testing to determine network performance. This involves testing equipment and computers that analyze the results of the data collected, right? Telephia does that too, with no bias to any company. They don't work for a wireless company, they collect data and sell it.
JD Power collects OPINIONS. Kinda like a Gallop poll, or an exit poll during an election. You folks shoot down Dateline, 20/20 and such because they have made mistakes. JD Power named the Pinto #1 in initial quality, folks, based on what people THOUGHT. How many went BOOM?
I prefer empirical data over somebody's opinion. Here's an example you might be able to relate to. Had a customer come in the other day, who ind...
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JD Power collects OPINIONS. Kinda like a Gallop poll, or an exit poll during an election. You folks shoot down Dateline, 20/20 and such because they have made mistakes. JD Power named the Pinto #1 in initial quality, folks, based on what people THOUGHT. How many went BOOM?
I prefer empirical data over somebody's opinion. Here's an example you might be able to relate to. Had a customer come in the other day, who ind...
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Again, till I can see that report I will still continue to say that it is a load of bunk. Just like that report you posted about GSM having better call clarity......in Kentucky where you aren't going head to head with VZW since we are not there.
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phonepimp3376 said:We just question your absolute disregard for the study altogether.
This is why I prefer data over opinion.
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If 20 people out of 200,000 said you could get hit by a falling safe full on and live, would you take that as gospel and let one fall on you? The number surveyed is not high enough to be a reliable indicator of the number of total users. JD Power uses a sample in that study that is significantly LESS than 1% of the market - 0.0217% to be precise. How can one claim this small a group can represent the opinion of over 100 million people?
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Okay, I quit... anyone that can't see data using a sample that small is not credible must be gullible as hell.
I have 15 people ready to swear that a sawzall will not cut your penis off. Any takers?
I have 15 people ready to swear that a sawzall will not cut your penis off. Any takers?
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phonepimp3376 said:I just like how you disregard any survey by this company as a whole.
If 20 people out of 200,000 said you could get hit by a falling safe full on and live, would you take that as gospel and let one fall on you? The number surveyed is not high enough to be a reliable indicator of the number of total users. JD Power uses a sample in that study that is significantly LESS than 1% of the market - 0.0217% to be precise. How can one claim this small a group can represent the opinion of over 100 million people?
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If they every do a survey that actually uses a decent sized sample of users, maybe I'll feel differently. But be honest. Do you honestly feel 21,700 people are a proper sampling of the 125 million wireless users in America?
How many of those people use what carriers? How many of them have used multiple carriers. How many of them think a cell phone is that thing you talk to death row inmates on? See my point here? Not only is it NOT a scientific study, the numbers used CANNOT deliver a plausible result. The target group is too small to provide a meaningful result.
How many of those people use what carriers? How many of them have used multiple carriers. How many of them think a cell phone is that thing you talk to death row inmates on? See my point here? Not only is it NOT a scientific study, the numbers used CANNOT deliver a plausible result. The target group is too small to provide a meaningful result.
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phonepimp3376 said:
If they every do a survey that actually uses a decent sized sample of users, maybe I'll feel differently. But be honest. Do you honestly feel 21,700 people are a proper sampling of the 125 million wireless users in America?
How many of those people use what carriers? How many of them have used multiple carriers. How many of them think a cell phone is that thing you talk to death row inmates on? See my point here? Not only is it NOT a scientific study, the numbers used CANNOT deliver a plausible result. The target group is too small to provide a meaningful result.
hold your breath...
actually... I kind of agree with PP.... yeah I really agree with PP... 😳
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😳 😲
well it IS pretty damn easy to agree with this little tidbit. I think if ya disputed it we'd worry more.
well it IS pretty damn easy to agree with this little tidbit. I think if ya disputed it we'd worry more.
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The number interviewed isn't necessarily the most important aspect. If they were able to poll a sample represenative of the mobile phoen user population, we'd have to give more credibility to the survey.
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So if I interview 10 people, and one says you are bulletproof, do I go to jail for shooting you or not? Hey, they told me he was bulletproof... there was a 10% margin!
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Nope... I just have a MBA from Duke. lol.
The fact is this: Not all those people VOTED Verizon. Actually it said Verizon won in 2 markets. Big deal. For the numbers that JD Power used, I could accomplish the same thing at any decent sporting event. Hell, NASCAR draws more than 21,000 people for a race!
See, here's your flaw. JD Power is not in the MARKETING business. They claim to offer statistical data. You cannot draw a meaningful conclusion from a sample so small, when your target group is over 100 million.
The fact is this: Not all those people VOTED Verizon. Actually it said Verizon won in 2 markets. Big deal. For the numbers that JD Power used, I could accomplish the same thing at any decent sporting event. Hell, NASCAR draws more than 21,000 people for a race!
See, here's your flaw. JD Power is not in the MARKETING business. They claim to offer statistical data. You cannot draw a meaningful conclusion from a sample so small, when your target group is over 100 million.
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phonepimp3376 said:
Nope... I just have a MBA from Duke. lol.
The fact is this: Not all those people VOTED Verizon. Actually it said Verizon won in 2 markets. Big deal. For the numbers that JD Power used, I could accomplish the same thing at any decent sporting event. Hell, NASCAR draws more than 21,000 people for a race!
See, here's your flaw. JD Power is not in the MARKETING business. They claim to offer statistical data. You cannot draw a meaningful conclusion from a sample so small, when your target group is over 100 million.
Actually, Nascar draws way more people than that. And you know whats funny, At the Rock, Nextel doesnt even have coverage. Isnt it Ironic. Thats the real reason why this wa...
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Based on some of your posts, I imagine you haven't taken spelling or creative writing at the junior high level, since we're going to get insulting again.
lilgabe, use your head for a minute. If that few people claimed to represent any group that large, and were NOT politicians, would you lend credence to what they said? Or would you want to hear it from at LEAST a 1% sample?
lilgabe, use your head for a minute. If that few people claimed to represent any group that large, and were NOT politicians, would you lend credence to what they said? Or would you want to hear it from at LEAST a 1% sample?
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I never said anything insulting. You have, even on this last post. In addition, I never said for a moment that the survey was valid. I was just questioning the reasons why you said they were invalid. Unfortunately, you have a one track mind that is bent on convincing the world that Cingular is indeed a better carrier overall than Verizon wireless. The numbers say otherwise. So you question the numbers. Hence, I question how you are questioning the numebrs. I like to watch you put your foot in your mouth.
Furthermore, I imagine that a Vanderbilt education dwarfs you diploma from Cingular Tech.
Furthermore, I imagine that a Vanderbilt education dwarfs you diploma from Cingular Tech.
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Who gives a sh*te about a Vanderbilt or a Duke education. The plain fact is that J.D. Powers didn't do a valid survey. They polled like 21,000 people about wireless companies. There's not even a guarantee that all of these people WERE wireless customers. Granted that there are over 100 Million wireless customers out there, but According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 8/25/2004 at 4:17:06 PM EDT is: 294,099,170. Now according to that there are approximately 194,099,170 people who DON'T have wireless contracts. When you shrink your survey to 21,000 the chances of a great deal of your subjects being picked out of that nearly 200 Million is pretty damned high.
by the way, he...
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by the way, he...
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that site updates according to the estimated number of people born per the census' averaged intervals, so the number will be different depending on when you check it.
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lilgabe1 said:
I never said anything insulting. You have, even on this last post. In addition, I never said for a moment that the survey was valid. I was just questioning the reasons why you said they were invalid. Unfortunately, you have a one track mind that is bent on convincing the world that Cingular is indeed a better carrier overall than Verizon wireless. The numbers say otherwise. So you question the numbers. Hence, I question how you are questioning the numebrs. I like to watch you put your foot in your mouth.
Furthermore, I imagine that a Vanderbilt education dwarfs you diploma from Cingular Tech.
Bad form Lilgabe, Bad form
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Perception is everything in this industry. Even though a carrier might not be the cheapest, if they can actually convince the public that they are, they can win on that price leadership strategy. Verizon has convinced the country that they have the best network using a different strategy that I can't remember the name of right now, thus phonepimp must now argue in various forums about data and studies that say otherwise. Because he even knows that the general public thinks Verizon is the best. Despite the fact that Cingular could produce a comparable network, Verizon still has established itself as the quality leader in the minds of consumers, hence the extraordinary quarterly results that dwarf cingulars all the time.
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lilgabe1 said:...
Perception is everything in this industry. Even though a carrier might not be the cheapest, if they can actually convince the public that they are, they can win on that price leadership strategy. Verizon has convinced the country that they have the best network using a different strategy that I can't remember the name of right now, thus phonepimp must now argue in various forums about data and studies that say otherwise. Because he even knows that the general public thinks Verizon is the best. Despite the fact that Cingular could produce a comparable network, Verizon still has established itself as the quality leader in the minds of consumers, hence the extraordinary quarterly results that dwarf cingulars a
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Marketing is trying to get a bunch of people to believe something is true. Just because a whole lot of people believe it's true doesn't mean it is, though. Government officials routinely get people believe they are making "painful" budget cuts, when in fact what they're doing is cutting the amount of the budget increase in the proposed budget. The budget is still bigger than the previous year's despite the "cuts."
All a customer satisfaction survey of network quality proves is a bunch of people think that someone has a better network. Without knowing the questions asked, you can't be sure of the accuracy of the results anyway. If the only question is "Whose cellular network do you think is the best based on your experiences," then Ve...
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All a customer satisfaction survey of network quality proves is a bunch of people think that someone has a better network. Without knowing the questions asked, you can't be sure of the accuracy of the results anyway. If the only question is "Whose cellular network do you think is the best based on your experiences," then Ve...
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Just because your management doesn't make TELEPHIA available to you, don't come crying to me.
JD Power takes 21,700 people out of over 100 MILLION wireless subscribers and records what they think... this is an accurate representation of the wireless industry? Hell, that's not even a good night at Yankee Stadium!
JD Power takes 21,700 people out of over 100 MILLION wireless subscribers and records what they think... this is an accurate representation of the wireless industry? Hell, that's not even a good night at Yankee Stadium!
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Are we not making a rather excessive noise over a JD Powers report? These reports are well intended but tend to fluctuate, based on who they contact for answers and opinions.
GSM is still a new comer and will get a wide variety of responses from all sorts of people. A look at the coverage maps will show that the areas that tend to give the lowest markings are also the least serviced by GSM, so the results in this study are to be expected.
I think highly of JD Powers reports but I am not going to use these reports as big stick to win my arguments with.
GSM is still a new comer and will get a wide variety of responses from all sorts of people. A look at the coverage maps will show that the areas that tend to give the lowest markings are also the least serviced by GSM, so the results in this study are to be expected.
I think highly of JD Powers reports but I am not going to use these reports as big stick to win my arguments with.
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GSM is not a new comer to the field. GSM is the older technology bub. GSM is more overseas, but CDMA is starting to take hold more and more.
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GSM IS however a newcomer to the United States. It's only in the last six months or so that we've begun hearing, en mass, that AT&T and Cingular are fully GSM.
I think this is what wmbray was tryin to say.
As for CDMA taking hold...sorry, as long as GSM is gov't mandated in the European Union CDMA can't take hold there. CDMA is strictly U.S. and parts of Asia. GSM, even though older, is still the largest used tech.
I think this is what wmbray was tryin to say.
As for CDMA taking hold...sorry, as long as GSM is gov't mandated in the European Union CDMA can't take hold there. CDMA is strictly U.S. and parts of Asia. GSM, even though older, is still the largest used tech.
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disturbed1 said:
CDMA is strictly U.S. and parts of Asia.
Also part of South America, and most of Central America.
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thanks...forgot that part. I'm curious though, how many cell users do all these parts of the world have? It's like sayin that Bosnia is fully GSM, who gives a rat's @$$? They're too busy tryin not to get shot to worry about call quality. I mean really how many people in "3rd world" countries or at least the low rent districts of the world have the need, or money for a cell phone? Like 3?
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damn! I'd like to see that. But then I guess if they're too busy dodging bullets to make a cell call then they're probably too busy to compile wireless data for their country too.
Besides...I'm sure they have better things on their minds than what carrier is the best. Isn't it great that we Americans can get so bored that we can argue which of our luxuries is better to no end?
Besides...I'm sure they have better things on their minds than what carrier is the best. Isn't it great that we Americans can get so bored that we can argue which of our luxuries is better to no end?
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I still stand by my original thinking that cell phones are not a luxury.
Tell the people of Central Florida who had no electricity, landline service, cable, water, etc. for the last week that their cells phone which actually let them have communications with the outside world that a cell phone is a luxury. Tell it to the rescue workers for those areas. After hearing some of the stories from other reps that took calls and taking calls from customers of those areas, it reaffirms my opinion that a cell phone is not a luxury.
Tell the people of Central Florida who had no electricity, landline service, cable, water, etc. for the last week that their cells phone which actually let them have communications with the outside world that a cell phone is a luxury. Tell it to the rescue workers for those areas. After hearing some of the stories from other reps that took calls and taking calls from customers of those areas, it reaffirms my opinion that a cell phone is not a luxury.
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you have a valid point, in a situation like that a cell phone can, indeed, become a life saver. But that, by no means makes it a neccessity, or something that one cannot live without. Which is pretty much the definition of a luxury. It comes down to "do we need it to live?" the answer to that is "no". I love my cell phone as much as the next guy and am happy to have the ability to own it, but it's like the internet connection I'm using. If I lose it, I'll miss it, but not ever having used it I wouldn't really know the difference. It's a luxury.
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Even though GSM is responsible for 9 out of 10 activations in the Americas as a whole.
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oh not the Americas thing again...come on PP do you live in Brazil? how about Peru? no? maybe Panama? Chile? Columbia? Can we try to keep this to pertenent info here big guy...that wasn't a pissing contest being started
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This link contains even better US and Canada data:
https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »
https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »
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I should have clarified that, I meant to say that CDMA was taking hold in areas where it is allowed to be used. I knew that goverment mandates in european countries prevent it. I was actually thinking of places like Korea when I was posting that.
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that's cool, we all forget to clarify from time to time, God knows I'm guilty of it.
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Sorry PP, but till I can SEE exactly what that report says, and till actually the public at large can as well, Telephia's report means absolutely zip, zilch, and nada.
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As does your famous 'internal testing' of your network... so we're even.
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Well then... you have heard me state the findings in CT many times.
From no less a source than FORBES:
http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/feeds/prnewswire/20 ... »
ROCKY HILL, Conn., June 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Cingular Wireless's network performance in Connecticut is more reliable than those of its competitors, according to a recent system performance report. The competitive research, commissioned by Cingular but conducted by an independent third party, measured state-wide comparative data about wireless network performance. Analysis of the data by Cingular Wireless shows that the company has the best wireless network in terms of overall quality in the Constitution State.
Data i...
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From no less a source than FORBES:
http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/feeds/prnewswire/20 ... »
ROCKY HILL, Conn., June 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Cingular Wireless's network performance in Connecticut is more reliable than those of its competitors, according to a recent system performance report. The competitive research, commissioned by Cingular but conducted by an independent third party, measured state-wide comparative data about wireless network performance. Analysis of the data by Cingular Wireless shows that the company has the best wireless network in terms of overall quality in the Constitution State.
Data i...
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Oh Forbes, what makes Forbes a reliable contact for cellular service??? Just questions your stuff like you question all of ours!!!
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I can list a ton of other links that reference the same info guys.
And unlike JD Power, who asked a whopping 0.0217 percent of all wireless users in America, this is actual drive testing done by a third party. Hmmmm.
And unlike JD Power, who asked a whopping 0.0217 percent of all wireless users in America, this is actual drive testing done by a third party. Hmmmm.
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Did you read this article? I don't think you did. You talk about others in this forum and VZW's claim about our network, check this quote out from your own copy and paste:
Nice try.
Analysis of the data by Cingular Wireless
Nice try.
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In other words, we looked at the results collected by someone else, not our own people, and could see that we had the edge.
Unlike VZW, who can only show data collected by THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES.
Read how VZW does drive tests: They have 8 setups to test networks; 4 that test their own, and 4 that test other networks. Since there are 6 major carriers, who do they exclude?
This comes from info provided by VZW that each test vehicle contains this equipment.
Unlike VZW, who can only show data collected by THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES.
Read how VZW does drive tests: They have 8 setups to test networks; 4 that test their own, and 4 that test other networks. Since there are 6 major carriers, who do they exclude?
This comes from info provided by VZW that each test vehicle contains this equipment.
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phonepimp3376 said:
Read how VZW does drive tests: They have 8 setups to test networks; 4 that test their own, and 4 that test other networks. Since there are 6 major carriers, who do they exclude?
This comes from info provided by VZW that each test vehicle contains this equipment.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe EACH of the 4 testing other networks were testing ALL 6 networks??? Or would that make too much sense?
Also, if you make a claim like "9 out of 10 activations are GSM", you better be prepared to back that preposterous crap up... where did you obtain this information? What year is it from, IF said information is accurate?? Do you think we all believe averything we read? Maybe some of us do.....
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...ash... said:...phonepimp3376 said:
Read how VZW does drive tests: They have 8 setups to test networks; 4 that test their own, and 4 that test other networks. Since there are 6 major carriers, who do they exclude?
This comes from info provided by VZW that each test vehicle contains this equipment.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe EACH of the 4 testing other networks were testing ALL 6 networks??? Or would that make too much sense?
Also, if you make a claim like "9 out of 10 activations are GSM", you better be prepared to back that preposterous crap up... where did you obtain this information? What year is it from, IF said information is accurate?? Do you think we all believe avery
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But wouldn't you be inclined to think with 4 dedicated to ONE carrier, and four testing the remaining five, that it would be harder to ensure error free results on the four testing 5 at once?
My claim of 9 out of 10 was addressed to the Americas only, as well.
My claim of 9 out of 10 was addressed to the Americas only, as well.
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phonepimp3376 said:
But wouldn't you be inclined to think with 4 dedicated to ONE carrier, and four testing the remaining five, that it would be harder to ensure error free results on the four testing 5 at once?
No, not really. Why would it? Wouldn't you want to keep the closest eye possible on yourself so you can tweak?? Good try though... but I don't think data obtained this way would in any way produce erroneous results. Infact, if it did, I suppose Verizon is wasting money... because isn't the point of testing to improve their own network? Why would you set yourself up for errors or bias? To screw yourself over? No no, PP, only YOU are that carrier dellusional.
HIEL CINGULAR!
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If you have 4 things doing 5 things at a time, there is a higher margin of error then four things doing one thing, that is only common sense.
A real life example:
Drive your car with no distractions. Pretty easy, right? Now add a cell phone in your right hand, two screaming kids in the back seat, and a deer in the road. Not so easy now!
A real life example:
Drive your car with no distractions. Pretty easy, right? Now add a cell phone in your right hand, two screaming kids in the back seat, and a deer in the road. Not so easy now!
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if you have equipment monitering, say 6 handsets or something data can be studied after it is obtained. Error is human; if data is collected by machanical device to be studied, that basically eliminates human distraction as your margin of error. And besides that, I was only projecting. I don't actually know if they did it the way I am suggesting, but it makes sense. And it also proves you don't know either. 😈 So don't assume.
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I am just saying it would make more sense to have one device for each carrier...reduces the chance of error.
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Why are you assuming that 4 systems are testing the other 5 networks at the SAME time? Can the 4 systems test one network at a time?
It's alot easier to state GSM is better when you add Canada and South America into equation; I might listen to you if GSM and CDMA is prevelant in the Americas
It's alot easier to state GSM is better when you add Canada and South America into equation; I might listen to you if GSM and CDMA is prevelant in the Americas
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i know, but you're talking to him about a conversation between him and i. he was the one who assumed they were testing one carrier at once and ignoring 2 out of the six major carriers... something to that effect. i was actually the one who suggested that maybe they were testing all of them at once...
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Absolutely,
because of atmospheric changes and foliage changes.
U.S.Cellular engineers drive test their network as often as monthly.
Too many things in a network can deteriorate which need to be kept on top of. Engineers in all companies are often optimizing their networks which require additional drive tests.
When scouting new tower locations drive testing is needed to find the best location.
If Cingular only does one drive test then I feel for their customers. Things change all of the time. A cellular or PCS network is not ever a finished proposition.
because of atmospheric changes and foliage changes.
U.S.Cellular engineers drive test their network as often as monthly.
Too many things in a network can deteriorate which need to be kept on top of. Engineers in all companies are often optimizing their networks which require additional drive tests.
When scouting new tower locations drive testing is needed to find the best location.
If Cingular only does one drive test then I feel for their customers. Things change all of the time. A cellular or PCS network is not ever a finished proposition.
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Jeff, that is not what I was talking about, and that should be apparent. What I was referring to is this: If you are driving a network testing the efficiency of all networks in that area, does it not make sense to test them all on that one drive?
schnozejt was referring to the fact that VZW has 8 network testing devices in each vehicle, and 4 of those test just VZW's network, while the other 4 test all the others. Asked me if it might not be that the 4 not testing VZW were testing one other network at a time.
I said that was unlikely, as it would mean re-driving the same area up to 5 times to achieve the same result.
How you got we only drive test once is beyond me.
schnozejt was referring to the fact that VZW has 8 network testing devices in each vehicle, and 4 of those test just VZW's network, while the other 4 test all the others. Asked me if it might not be that the 4 not testing VZW were testing one other network at a time.
I said that was unlikely, as it would mean re-driving the same area up to 5 times to achieve the same result.
How you got we only drive test once is beyond me.
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Did you just completely ignore what I wrote...in most cases they would leave out the carrier that does not have service in the area they are...why test a carrier if they aren't present? Also those countries that I listed are in "The Americas" North Central and South!
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No, I was responding to the ever-so-accurate ash, who even in the face of data errs on the side of PASSION
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Theres nothing wrong with passion, I mean come on Rocky took down The Russian didn't he? The russian was stronger, longer arm span, had his own training facility, as opposed to a barn!!!
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I'll reference the 2003 article first, then one from THIS MONTH showing the trend continuing, ash. Here you go:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=10 ... »
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http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=10 ... »
3G Americas reports 100% annual...
growth for GSM in 2003, giving GSM by far the largest percentage gain of any
wireless technology in the Western Hemisphere. Based on data from EMC, GSM is
outpacing all other wireless technologies in Latin America, increasing its
subscriber base by nearly 150% in 2003, almost six times more growth than the
next most popular wireless technology. The rapid deployment of GSM/GPRS on a
nationwide basis in Canada and the U.S. contributed to GSM's 77% growth in the
North American
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2 things: Growth vs. GSM stats per REGION... it said 9 out 10 IN THIS REGION... you need to qualify yourself... because let's face it. Verizon and Sprint use CDMA but GSM is worldwide; now GSM is not all the exact same frequency. European GSM has spacing a little off from American GSM... that's great that GSM is so wonderful, but you're forgetting all that subjective/objective crap you were so adamant about. Right now you're using global GSM to compare to "other technologies"... well let's talk about relevancy. CDMA is America only; that's like doing a Sprint vs. Cingular test in France... hello, compare apples to apples.
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I said 9 out of 10 in the Americas, which include North, South, Latin and Central.
Both articles reference US and Canadian growth rates. 2003 - 77%, 2004 - 85%
Seems GSM is adding more subs here too... go figure.
And CDMA is NOT America only, ash. CDMA is also not in the exact same bands... CDMA uses 800MHz range and 1900 MHz range just like US GSM.
Slow down a bit. You're making a lot of mistakes, and that is not like you!
Both articles reference US and Canadian growth rates. 2003 - 77%, 2004 - 85%
Seems GSM is adding more subs here too... go figure.
And CDMA is NOT America only, ash. CDMA is also not in the exact same bands... CDMA uses 800MHz range and 1900 MHz range just like US GSM.
Slow down a bit. You're making a lot of mistakes, and that is not like you!
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talk about mistakes...isn't Latin and South America the same thing...hehehe
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PP gimme a break... I can spar with you somewhat, and I just started selling wireless in June of THIS YEAR... so gimme a break when I am not a genius like yourself... but I seem to have found intelligent holes in your bullet proof vest of wireless experience.. so what does that say about you?
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...ash... said:
but I seem to have found intelligent holes in your bullet proof vest of wireless experience.. so what does that say about you?
hmmmmmm let me guess....can't teach an old dog new tricks!!?!?! Just messin PP but you got about 20 years on me age wise...hehehe
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yeah years in age and probably experience too, seeing as i have 2 months experience.
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Simply shows that you, like me, investigate the industry and try to find weaknesses that help you convince people you are better. That is sales. What bothers me, however, is that when confronted with an opposing viewpoint, rather than examine it for truth, you simply react with a PERSONAL attack.
The truth is this... all carriers have weaknesses, and what you see as a strength could be a weakness for someone else.
For example, I see analog as a liability, because it creates headaches for many people who use their phone for more than just calls. Being in the Boston area, I get a lot of customers that rely heavily on email, data and other digital features. They can't afford to have that not work. So roaming onto an analog tower and havin...
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The truth is this... all carriers have weaknesses, and what you see as a strength could be a weakness for someone else.
For example, I see analog as a liability, because it creates headaches for many people who use their phone for more than just calls. Being in the Boston area, I get a lot of customers that rely heavily on email, data and other digital features. They can't afford to have that not work. So roaming onto an analog tower and havin...
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TheVZWMan said:
Don't get jealous just because you're in Mass.
yeah sailor. lol
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darn it! and my fiance just turned 25... time for a replacement... nah, I'll keep her around...lol
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haha that's awesome. my sister starts at ohio state this fall and i have a bunch a friends who go there. i had training in columbus too actually, in the easton loop thinigie
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very cool, I actually used to work at Chase Manhattan Mortgage, over in the "Loopie thingie" hehehe, didn't go to OSU, but a huge Bucks fan!
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Here's a question... are Hoosier parents 'hoosier mama' and 'hoosier daddy'?
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yes. yes they are. hoosier sistah and hoosier brotha too playa (pimps n playas...) i'm just messin
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HA that's great. Yeah, but I don't go to IU anymore so I really don't care about their sports. Come to think of it I don't really care about sports in general. 😛
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Okay, understandable...hehehe...but let me ask you something... What the hell is a hoosier?
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a hoosier is an Indiana Hoosier. The Hoosiers are powerhouse legendary college basketballers.
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We know that Cain but what exactly is a hoosier...other than IU's Mascot....
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Main Entry: Hoo·sier
Pronunciation: 'hü-zh&r
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration of English dialect hoozer anything large of its kind
: a native or resident of Indiana -- used as a nickname
- Hoosier adjective
Pronunciation: 'hü-zh&r
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration of English dialect hoozer anything large of its kind
: a native or resident of Indiana -- used as a nickname
- Hoosier adjective
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awwww, you're a Hoosier Girl...I see...hmmmmm....well I will have to apologize then for beating you guys in advance on Oct. 23...hehehe j/kyou guys got Basketball we got the Football
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PP, how about the fact that those worldwide figures are skewed because the eurotrash goverments won't let them run anything else?
Also, that last paragraph is a total crock about in America GSM adding more customers than CDMA and was proven last quarter as well as this quarter by the fact that VZW added more net adds than all 3 of you major GSM carriers combined. Let us now throw in Alltel and Sprint adds and GSM is sucking hind tit in the U.S.
I sure as hell do not know where this "news" agency got their information, but just looking at the quarterly reports in the U.S. any idiot can see they are full of crap. I won't even begin to speculate on the rates of other nations, but again a lot of them are MANDATED to GSM.
Also, that last paragraph is a total crock about in America GSM adding more customers than CDMA and was proven last quarter as well as this quarter by the fact that VZW added more net adds than all 3 of you major GSM carriers combined. Let us now throw in Alltel and Sprint adds and GSM is sucking hind tit in the U.S.
I sure as hell do not know where this "news" agency got their information, but just looking at the quarterly reports in the U.S. any idiot can see they are full of crap. I won't even begin to speculate on the rates of other nations, but again a lot of them are MANDATED to GSM.
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Can I ask a serious question here?
why is it that something as skewed as a report that ADMITS it questioned less than 1/10 of a percent of users is viewed as gospel, but anything stating an opposing viewpoint is 'crap'?
Those figures state the growth of GSM in the US and Canada. Nowhere does it state that it is limited to the top 3 carriers.
True, Europe limits its carriers to GSM, but that is nowhere near the total number of GSM countries... when Europe comprises over 200 countries that will be a valid complaint. Notice also that the article mentions a country formerly ruled by CDMA in which GSM has surpassed it to become the number one technology.
why is it that something as skewed as a report that ADMITS it questioned less than 1/10 of a percent of users is viewed as gospel, but anything stating an opposing viewpoint is 'crap'?
Those figures state the growth of GSM in the US and Canada. Nowhere does it state that it is limited to the top 3 carriers.
True, Europe limits its carriers to GSM, but that is nowhere near the total number of GSM countries... when Europe comprises over 200 countries that will be a valid complaint. Notice also that the article mentions a country formerly ruled by CDMA in which GSM has surpassed it to become the number one technology.
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Yeah, dollars and cents. A GSM network is cheap to deploy and therefore is popular with discount cellular carriers.
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And this has WHAT to do with the question of why something is crap and why other things aren't?
*hands Jeff a coffee, cuz he's sleepreading*
*hands Jeff a coffee, cuz he's sleepreading*
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Actually, that's funny.... because if you read the various "whitepapers" on cdma, it claims to have cheaper network implementation than other networks. Even tho they have to completely replace network technology from 2g to 3g... hmmmm. the reason vzw chose cdma was because it was cheaper than gsm.
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hmmm...maybe THAT's why all the little upstart carriers and the regionals like ALLTEL, U.S. Cellular, Cricket, and Qwest are CDMA. And let's not forget the small potatoes companies.
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okay we've had this discussion before and let me just put this in here...you say GSM is in 200 countries...okay...thats fine I'll accept that, but when we're talking about places like England, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Denmark, Portugal etc. etc. vs. say Cambodia, or Somalia, or Libya...we're talking about a big difference...Until I am able to see a list of each country and how many GSM users they have in said countries...that 200 sh!t is just that....sh!t, because for all I know 150 of those 200 countries could be 3rd world countries where only 1% of the population can afford to use cellular service...and by merely using that example that would mean the the mandate of GSM in Europe would be a major contrib...
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First, I wasn't talking about a J.D. Powers survey and if you look I haven't brought up their survey in a long time. Why? Because it is a past achievement and you dispute it so I dropped it like I drop many of the things you have disputed and proved to me were questionable. Why do you keep beating on this subject and putting words into my mouth? Answer that.
Did I say anywhere about Canada? Did I say only the top 3 carriers? I stated the numbers for the top 3 GSM carriers in the U.S. compared to the #1 carrier in the U.S. that just happens to be CDMA and the fact that we added more than all of you GSM carriers combined. I questioned where exactly this "news" agency got their figures when it can be disputed very easily by anyone with acces...
(continues)
Did I say anywhere about Canada? Did I say only the top 3 carriers? I stated the numbers for the top 3 GSM carriers in the U.S. compared to the #1 carrier in the U.S. that just happens to be CDMA and the fact that we added more than all of you GSM carriers combined. I questioned where exactly this "news" agency got their figures when it can be disputed very easily by anyone with acces...
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That 'news agency' got their information from EMC World Database, a company that tracks GSM growth.
check out http://www.gsmworld.com and http://www.3gamericas.org for more info on the figures.
check out http://www.gsmworld.com and http://www.3gamericas.org for more info on the figures.
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You can reference any website you want bud, but when looking at the numbers from 2q2004 net add ons what do you see there? Let me refresh your memory big guy:
VZW: 1,535,000
GSM:
T-Mobile - 1,092,000
Cingular - 428,000
AT&T - 15,000
Final Tally:
VZW - 1,535,000
All Major GSM Carriers - 1,535,000
Conclusion:
VZW had the same ammnt of add ons as all 3 GSM...3 Companies combined could ONLY MATCH what we added...The #'s speak for themselves PP...
VZW: 1,535,000
GSM:
T-Mobile - 1,092,000
Cingular - 428,000
AT&T - 15,000
Final Tally:
VZW - 1,535,000
All Major GSM Carriers - 1,535,000
Conclusion:
VZW had the same ammnt of add ons as all 3 GSM...3 Companies combined could ONLY MATCH what we added...The #'s speak for themselves PP...
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very true..but they difinitely need to do something about that churn rate...
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There are more than 3 GSM carriers in the US, the figures take them into account as well.
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What small little regional carriers? Okay so those would add up to about the same with CDMA with Sprint added in there...thats still pretty sad though 3 major companies can't even add up to 1
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verizon has the most customers,
Yet T-mobile is close behind, and their not even in close to the amount of markets VZW is....
Yet T-mobile is close behind, and their not even in close to the amount of markets VZW is....
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According to their website they only have 13.1 million Customers...how is that even close to VZW??? Bad Claim there PP
http://www.t-mobile.com/company/about/ »
http://www.t-mobile.com/company/about/ »
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Back away from the coffee cup and put your hands on top of your head...
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: smacks DG with a dual-band GSM phone that can USE both bands and runs like the wind:
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I meant that t-mobile has a small customer base
Yet it has a very high add-on rate, close to verizion's
Sorry if that came out wrong.... 🙂
Yet it has a very high add-on rate, close to verizion's
Sorry if that came out wrong.... 🙂
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Something to think about:
Perhaps given the fact that many of Cingular's and ATTWS customers are still using TDMA the possibility exists that Verizon has as many customers as there are GSM customers in the U.S. The only major player that has all of its customers using GSM is T-Mobile.
GSM growth other than T-Mobile is far greater as upgrade customers on both ATTWS and Cingular. Raw new customer growth is greater on CDMA, particularly Verizon and Sprint PCS.
Perhaps given the fact that many of Cingular's and ATTWS customers are still using TDMA the possibility exists that Verizon has as many customers as there are GSM customers in the U.S. The only major player that has all of its customers using GSM is T-Mobile.
GSM growth other than T-Mobile is far greater as upgrade customers on both ATTWS and Cingular. Raw new customer growth is greater on CDMA, particularly Verizon and Sprint PCS.
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...ash... said:...phonepimp3376 said:
Read how VZW does drive tests: They have 8 setups to test networks; 4 that test their own, and 4 that test other networks. Since there are 6 major carriers, who do they exclude?
This comes from info provided by VZW that each test vehicle contains this equipment.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe EACH of the 4 testing other networks were testing ALL 6 networks??? Or would that make too much sense?
Also, if you make a claim like "9 out of 10 activations are GSM", you better be prepared to back that preposterous crap up... where did you obtain this information? What year is it from, IF said information is accurate?? Do you think we all believe avery
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Cain -
The 9 in 10 figure references an article on GSM in the Americas only.
The 9 in 10 figure references an article on GSM in the Americas only.
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Who do they exclude? Well judging by the fact that in 3/4 of the US there might only be 2 carriers I would probably have to say they exclude whoever doesn't have coverage in that area
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PP, you and I both know you can make pure empirical data do anything you want it to do. I point out my post about load handling and the numbers I showed you for that where I showed using entirely empirical data that Cingular vs. Verizon Wireless we could cell for cell handle at least 22 million more calls per day than you could with more towers than we have.
Also, Cingular HIRED those people. They ARE WORKING for Cingular. Show me a real test by an agency like the FCC. Someone that is truely un-biased in any way what-so-ever. We can go on all day with these "mine is bigger than yours" arguments.
Also, Cingular HIRED those people. They ARE WORKING for Cingular. Show me a real test by an agency like the FCC. Someone that is truely un-biased in any way what-so-ever. We can go on all day with these "mine is bigger than yours" arguments.
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We hired them, and so does every major carrier. Telephia is in the business of collecting data.
They are wireless consultants.
And if you think the FCC is unbiased, take a look at the Nextel ruling. Even VZW saw how crooked that was, and moved to impede it.
They are wireless consultants.
And if you think the FCC is unbiased, take a look at the Nextel ruling. Even VZW saw how crooked that was, and moved to impede it.
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My point is that Telephia may be unbiased, but they were hired by Cingular and Cingular can do anything with the data they want. Like leaving important pieces out that may prove other data collected and stated as false. Also, you are talking about 1 small market. What about the data outside that area?
Don't get me wrong, I don't like the FCC as much as the next person does, but I was using them as an example.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like the FCC as much as the next person does, but I was using them as an example.
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I only get the Telephia info for New England from my area manager, unfortunately. Any other info I get from them comes from other markets via reps I know there. I will only post what I have personally received, so I know its actual, and not something third party that could have been mistyped.
While Cingular interprets Telephia's data, it is no more likely that they omitted critical info than it is for any other company. Unlike VZW's inside testing, using Telephia at least gives us something to back up our claims if they are questioned. Something that we didn't do ourselves, so there is less chance of manipulation than there would be with an internal test.
While Cingular interprets Telephia's data, it is no more likely that they omitted critical info than it is for any other company. Unlike VZW's inside testing, using Telephia at least gives us something to back up our claims if they are questioned. Something that we didn't do ourselves, so there is less chance of manipulation than there would be with an internal test.
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How can you say that you can back up a Telephia survey? If Cingular advises/hires Telephia to do a survey and then also has free rein on what info to post, then that, in turn, would be no different from your claim on VZW doing inside testing...Just because you have it done by a 3rd party, does make it reliable especially in the case when you get control of that 3rd party before it's released and release it yourself...
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That's just it... we don't get it before its released. They give us the raw data, and we analyze it. Therefore we have their data to back up the findings.
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you just completely contradicted yourself...you say that you do not recieve the data before it's released but instead recieve the raw data and analyze it...sounds like the exact same thing to me...
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They release it too, bud... they charge to view the info. Since we buy the testing, we get it free, but they release at the same time. We get ours roughly the same time they post the results as available.
Since anyone with the cash can buy Telephia reports, if we WERE to doctor the numbers we would be found out quickly.
Since anyone with the cash can buy Telephia reports, if we WERE to doctor the numbers we would be found out quickly.
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Okay well let's take a look at this...When Cingular commissions this to be done, do they have any say as to where to have them do the testing or is that completely up to Telephia? Also since you obviously have these results could you post them on here with specific areas that they have tested?
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The market I had, I posted. Telephia tests our network nationwide by markets.
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So let me ask this...if you have a "3rd party" source working specificly for you then wouldn't that make them no longer a 3rd party source?
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They don't just work for us, VZW... they drive test all the major networks. We are not the only carrier that uses them.
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Yes but correct me if I'm wrong but, I thought I read from you that Cingular Hired them to test their network...key word being "hired", if a 3rd party source is hired by some one to do something for them that in turn make that 3rd party company now affiliated with the Company that hired them
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You hire a mechanic to fix your car, but he fixes other people's too. Perhaps 'use their services' would be better.
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Yeah but if that mechanic is a GM specialist then would he be affiliated with GM?
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I saw no raw numbers in that report. All I saw was "Cingular's analysis of the data" and "A 3rd party hired by Cingular." Where is that data?
Again, you can make raw data do anything you want it to do, even without omitting anything, but since we cannot even see this raw data how the hell are we to know what it says. Just because it is an outside source doesn't mean that source is right or what they report can't be distorted.
Again, you can make raw data do anything you want it to do, even without omitting anything, but since we cannot even see this raw data how the hell are we to know what it says. Just because it is an outside source doesn't mean that source is right or what they report can't be distorted.
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He's right....
We should all go out and do our own independent poll,
RIGHT NOW DAMMIT! 😡
We should all go out and do our own independent poll,
RIGHT NOW DAMMIT! 😡
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My offer still stands...if I can get a repliable car, gas money, and a small fee for my services (of course) I would be more than happy to volunteer to take a phone from every major carrier and drive every inch of US Highway and record the data from that trip!!!
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Nor can we see JD Power, or VZW's internal testing, yet we are expected to accept them at face value.
So what's to say their data isn't just as flawed? See what I'm getting at? The public hasn't got access to half of the data out there, so they go primarily on opinion polls like JD Power and Consumer Reports. In many cases these polls are questionable due to the sample sizes used, as I have already stated.
Heck, even industry insiders can't agree on what data is reliable and what isn't! How can we expect the consumer to be able to make a truly informed decision? I feel this is one reason we have to offer a 'trial period' so that people can see if the hype and the truth are the same.
For example, if I were going on opinion based on w...
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So what's to say their data isn't just as flawed? See what I'm getting at? The public hasn't got access to half of the data out there, so they go primarily on opinion polls like JD Power and Consumer Reports. In many cases these polls are questionable due to the sample sizes used, as I have already stated.
Heck, even industry insiders can't agree on what data is reliable and what isn't! How can we expect the consumer to be able to make a truly informed decision? I feel this is one reason we have to offer a 'trial period' so that people can see if the hype and the truth are the same.
For example, if I were going on opinion based on w...
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PP, this is the last time I am going to say this. From now on I and just going to attatch a big fat ****READ IT AGAIN STUPID**** reply up when you put words into my mouth or go over something we have already talked about and either of us agreed with each other. K?
Show me where I said anything about J.D. Powers being a good indication of the wireless industry in the last 3 weeks, hell let's make it 5 weeks even. You won't find it. You put another quote into my mouth and it will be ****READ IT AGAIN STUPID***** time.
Show me where I said anything about J.D. Powers being a good indication of the wireless industry in the last 3 weeks, hell let's make it 5 weeks even. You won't find it. You put another quote into my mouth and it will be ****READ IT AGAIN STUPID***** time.
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You know what dakz? You need some St. John's Wort! I have seen people (not necessarily you, true) post that flawed crap so often that I automatically include it, because sooner or later someone is BOUND to come out with 'JD Power says...'
Leave it to you to pick one small part of that whole post and focus on it, rather than address the bigger picture.
Leave it to you to pick one small part of that whole post and focus on it, rather than address the bigger picture.
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oh yeah PP well JD Power and Associates say that...nevermind this info is too good for you...hehehe
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Kind of like you just adding J.D.Powers into my post so you had something to comeback with? That was the entire rant of your post. Pointing out that you using Telephia's analysed data to J.D.Powers findings.
What bigger picture are you talking about? How Cingular has more net adds than VZW? Well, that's false. Or is it the fact that for Cingular to "win" they have to merge with another company, and only then they will hold that title for about 18 months at best according to most forecasters? Or is it the fact that public spending power is the ultimate indicator of who is to be on top, and that Cingular isn't meeting that even now, even though you have a value advantage over VZW? Or is it the fact that GSM combined in the U.S. can't even ...
(continues)
What bigger picture are you talking about? How Cingular has more net adds than VZW? Well, that's false. Or is it the fact that for Cingular to "win" they have to merge with another company, and only then they will hold that title for about 18 months at best according to most forecasters? Or is it the fact that public spending power is the ultimate indicator of who is to be on top, and that Cingular isn't meeting that even now, even though you have a value advantage over VZW? Or is it the fact that GSM combined in the U.S. can't even ...
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If you read between Dakz's lines you can see the words J.D. powers spelt out...creepy 😳
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No dakz, the main thrust was that the consumer still has no better recourse than trial and error, because there is no truly reliable information out there.
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