U.S Copyright Office Issues New Rights
NEW YORK - Cell phone owners will be allowed to break software locks on their handsets in order to use them with competing carriers under new copyright rules announced Wednesday.
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ArmySF said:
NEW YORK - Cell phone owners will be allowed to break software locks on their handsets in order to use them with competing carriers under new copyright rules announced Wednesday.
Army, do you have the link? This was not expected unil after January and the MacWorld conference. Steve Jobs of Apple was the mastermind.
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http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerar ... »
what does this mean to us right away, there are other links just google it
what does this mean to us right away, there are other links just google it
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ArmySF said:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerar ... »
what does this mean to us right away, there are other links just google it
That's a great link, Army. Thank you.
For Cell phone reuse, the one link said:
Why Should You Have to Get a New Phone?
Today, many consumers would like to be able to keep their cell phone handset or multi-functional handheld computer (PDA) when they switch to a new cell phone service using a compatible network. Letting consumers re-use handsets, another term for cell phone, saves money—and saves the environment by keeping otherwise usable handsets out of landfills. But a cell phone company practice that preve...
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In my experiences, "unlocking" usually referred to GSM handset, while CDMA handsets are not "locked" per say, just the ESN/IMEI's are only loaded into the one carrier's "allowed" database at the time of production...so, if I understand it correctly, CDMA handsets don't have a "handset lock" on them, right? I know about the subsidy lock or sublock, is that considered the same thing?
If true, then CDMA carriers would be exempt from this ruling, right?
If true, then CDMA carriers would be exempt from this ruling, right?
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CDMA handsets are lock, the programing code to get into all Verizon Wireless is 000000, this is used in the over the air programing, US Cellular, Alltel, Sprint, etc... they may have the same exact phone but the programing unlock code is different.
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just to let you know sometimes the 000000 does not work and we have to go into guarded link and check for other poss lock codes it might be. But with all this dealing with voice and like not2brite said. The esn still needs to be loaded into the carriers system as compatible. Then the ota prob would not work the man prog would be an issues since the other carriers prob do this different. So this would every carrier for the prog codes and the dif in the prog menu.... ahhh i can feel the headache now.
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OK your ESN is changed... What? you want me to program your phone? Sorry, we don't support that. Have a good day.
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ArmySF said:
This looks very promising
From Businessweek:
"In granting the exemption for cell phone users, the Copyright Office determined that consumers aren't able to enjoy full legal use of their handsets because of software locks that wireless providers have been placing to control access to phones' underlying programs."
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not2brite said:
What are considered "underlying programs"?
Ha ha. Full as Qualified Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, OEM user interface, etc.
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Then it wouldn't apply to being able to use handsets on other carriers, just the obex stuff and UI mess et. al.???
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not2brite said:
Then it wouldn't apply to being able to use handsets on other carriers, just the obex stuff and UI mess et. al.???
Both. Read the Business Week article. They want handset portability and access to underlying programs.
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I did read the article...if you want handset portability, it'll never happen 'cause you will never be able to use a current T-Mobile handset on a Verizon network...unless the laws recognize that point.
CDMA to CDMA, GSM to GSM, now I could see that happen...and goodbye handset subsidies. Handset prices would go up, and the public would be even more outraged! Ah, our government at work just because of the UI on Verizon phones...
CDMA to CDMA, GSM to GSM, now I could see that happen...and goodbye handset subsidies. Handset prices would go up, and the public would be even more outraged! Ah, our government at work just because of the UI on Verizon phones...
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not2brite said:
I did read the article...if you want handset portability, it'll never happen 'cause you will never be able to use a current T-Mobile handset on a Verizon network...unless the laws recognize that point.
CDMA to CDMA, GSM to GSM, now I could see that happen...and goodbye handset subsidies. Handset prices would go up, and the public would be even more outraged! Ah, our government at work just because of the UI on Verizon phones...
You're half right. I agree that you will never be able to use a current T-Mobile handset on a Verizon network; CDMA to CDMA, GSM to GSM as you say. "Compatible network" is what our Bill was pushing.
On the handest subsidies, and phone cost, the contracts aren...
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With the obex allowed, how do you rationalize the sharing of copyrighted materials with this bill?
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not2brite said:
With the obex allowed, how do you rationalize the sharing of copyrighted materials with this bill?
The ruling doesn't concern itself with OBEX. There are other laws which provide those protections.
Maybe it should. The way things stand right now, you can buy the rights to a ringtone from a third party and not use it on your phone. The carriers are locking the ringtone folder.
The apps are different, like software, you can only use them on one phone. Again, OBEX has nothing to do with it.
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Buy rights to ringtones? There are so many pirated apps and ringtones out there now, if VZW allowed full OBEX, they would help proliferate the use of pirated software and music. As it is now, the apps are fully legal as they are paid for when they are acquired by the enduser, and the royalties are then paid to the creator or entertainer, right?
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not2brite said:
Buy rights to ringtones? There are so many pirated apps and ringtones out there now, if VZW allowed full OBEX, they would help proliferate the use of pirated software and music. As it is now, the apps are fully legal as they are paid for when they are acquired by the enduser, and the royalties are then paid to the creator or entertainer, right?
No, you buy a song on a CD. You shouldn't have to buy it again to load it to your phone. That's what is happening now.
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and your friends phone, and their friends phone, and on and on from the one CD-one royalty for the artist or software writer...
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not2brite said:
and your friends phone, and their friends phone, and on and on from the one CD-one royalty for the artist or software writer...
Copyrights include legal rights to commercialize, license, transfer, broadcast or reproduce an original piece of work, irrespective of its supporting media.
The carriers were blocking that, is what the ruling says.
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I beg to differ with you...If I own a bar and want to play any music I bought on my personal CD, I could not do that without a license from ASCAP or the artist's license holder.
I also cannot "commercialize, license, etc." another artist's intellectual property that has been copyrighted without violating copyright laws.
My reading is the ruling says that you cannot lock your handset to a particular network. No mention of copying artists ringtones and using bluetooth to transfer that to someone else without paying a royalty.
I also cannot "commercialize, license, etc." another artist's intellectual property that has been copyrighted without violating copyright laws.
My reading is the ruling says that you cannot lock your handset to a particular network. No mention of copying artists ringtones and using bluetooth to transfer that to someone else without paying a royalty.
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not2brite said:
I beg to differ with you...If I own a bar and want to play any music I bought on my personal CD, I could not do that without a license from ASCAP or the artist's license holder.
I also cannot "commercialize, license, etc." another artist's intellectual property that has been copyrighted without violating copyright laws.
My reading is the ruling says that you cannot lock your handset to a particular network. No mention of copying artists ringtones and using bluetooth to transfer that to someone else without paying a royalty.
Read this, beginning around page 50:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/1201_recommendati ... »
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Don't want to sound like an arse, but are these issues such a huge issue that it would want to limit company profits for VZW or any other similar carrier? Since VZW has figured out how to make money on it, are the other companies just trying to horn in on the business--"if I can't have it, neither can you" mentality?
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not2brite said:
Don't want to sound like an arse, but are these issues such a huge issue that it would want to limit company profits for VZW or any other similar carrier?
They got greedy. Pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered.
They should have never forced handsets to push free services over their pay-for carrier network, like Bluetooth.
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not2brite said:
Then it wouldn't apply to being able to use handsets on other carriers, just the obex stuff and UI mess et. al.???
good question -but i dont think thats all the bill entails, its the ability to physically take your phone to another carriers.
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With full obex, you can transfer copyrighted music from a friends handset to yours, without paing the proper royalties...
Right?
Right?
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Yeah it would be a entire new world of frigin cell phone freedom, I can't even imagine that would be so great I would love it.
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does this mean the blade from sprint would be able to be activated and used on verizon's network?
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Sprint74 said:
does this mean the blade from sprint would be able to be activated and used on verizon's network?
Yes- as crazy as that sounds that exactly what this means.
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ArmySF said:Sprint74 said:
does this mean the blade from sprint would be able to be activated and used on verizon's network?
Yes- as crazy as that sounds that exactly what this means.
And Verizon would have to enable the GIN, VCast and other features you wanted to buy.
The phones would have to be flashed onto the network, without locking out the native features, as part of the activation fee.
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oh, theres the rub then...you want to use your own handset, $150 activation fee (makes up for the handset loss)
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I don't think so. The copyright exemption only talks about software lock-outs. VZW doesn't allow non-VZW devices on their network and that's done by way of the network itself, not the phone. They block out non-VZW ESNs. I don't think this would affect VZW.
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majorxero said:
I don't think so. The copyright exemption only talks about software lock-outs. VZW doesn't allow non-VZW devices on their network and that's done by way of the network itself, not the phone. They block out non-VZW ESNs. I don't think this would affect VZW.
The copyright exemption talks about two kinds of "locks", first the usual carrier network lock, and then the software lock to access copyrighted material. The second part would affect any phone, whether GSM or CDMA.
Indeed, there does not appear to be any concern over protecting access to the Copyrighted work itself. The purpose of the software lock appears to be limiting the owners use of the mobile handset to support a bus...
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Since if this goes through their will not be as handsets sold so the price per handset will go up. Especially since the company's will not be making esclusive deals anymore. Plus I am assuming this would only go for future phone sicne the current one are already locked. Plus what about the enhaced data feat like sprint vision and vzw vcast and get it now. these to feats are only on their own phone so how do they plan to make this work. This would be a big issue for companies store to be able to flash the info into the phone to use the software. Or i wonder if they would just have the customer send it back to the manufacturer... hmmm to much to think about. Sorry for the long post.
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Apparently the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many!
I would assume it would free up the handset to receive calls but not to do anything else, the handset would need to be flashed...thereby voiding any prior warranty...it's another moneymaking opportunity for carriers...once again I forecast $150 activation fee for non-carrier specific handsets!
I would assume it would free up the handset to receive calls but not to do anything else, the handset would need to be flashed...thereby voiding any prior warranty...it's another moneymaking opportunity for carriers...once again I forecast $150 activation fee for non-carrier specific handsets!
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not2brite said:
Apparently the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many!
Welcome to America.
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Yeah, I know...and I can't possibly see how this issue is a needs issue anyway...
Always shooting for the Lowest Common Denominator! The dummification of a nation!
Always shooting for the Lowest Common Denominator! The dummification of a nation!
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pretty much. this proves the idiots dont know much. basically telling the customer here you can use this high end phone to just make calls. have a great day. 🙂
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satch of the moe said:
pretty much. this proves the idiots dont know much. basically telling the customer here you can use this high end phone to just make calls. have a great day. 🙂
And you don't think Verizon will find a way to get VCast and BroadBand access onto any phone that is compatible with it's subscriber network?
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possible. But i think this will take some time as usual. Plus it depends it the manufacturer will let them know on how to completly empty the phone initall programming and then install a new programming. Since as far as i know the flash updates are not the full os it is just like install a sp 2 on win xp.
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satch of the moe said:
possible. But i think this will take some time as usual. Plus it depends it the manufacturer will let them know on how to completly empty the phone initall programming and then install a new programming. Since as far as i know the flash updates are not the full os it is just like install a sp 2 on win xp.
You can flash a phone from carrier to carrier right now with leaked software. It's just not legal until Monday.
http://www.humpa.com/vzw/ »
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not2brite said:
Yeah, I know...and I can't possibly see how this issue is a needs issue anyway...
It's not a needs issue. It is a Copyright issue.
Legal rights to commercialize, license, transfer, broadcast or reproduce an original piece of work, irrespective of its supporting media.
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so if i brought in a sprint phone to be activated with verizon would the phone still get vcast etc? i have the blade now and might do that if verizon doesn't put their UI on my blade....that would be sad ☹️
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Sprint74 said:
so if i brought in a sprint phone to be activated with verizon would the phone still get vcast etc? i have the blade now and might do that if verizon doesn't put their UI on my blade....that would be sad ☹️
Yes, if Verizon wanted to collect another $15 per month from you, they would gladly provide that programming.
Actually, the trend of flashing your phone from home is catching on. It began with Treo, and now Nokia and Motorola.
Last week, there were only 2 carriers listed here, now look:
http://direct.motorola.com/hellomoto/motosupport/sou ... »
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Why would I want my big pimpin POWERVISION phone on the verizon network? I wont have my POWERVISION just voice 😕 and be stuck with brew, wap pages, and their lame VCAST LOL no thanks.... but i can easily understand why a verizon user would want a cool phone. This makes no sense
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i know....i'm going to eat some more pumpkin pie and hopefully he will go away
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i hope so i would give thanks for that. I think we were all just being nice and no fighting for once. 😳 🤭 🤭 cant we all just get along.... 🤣 🤣
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So why would I? you guys know I'm right but just take the easy road out and label me a troll. it makes no sense at all, that would be raping my sprint phone off all its good features.
As a sprint user I already have access to verizon network so why dumb down my phone?
As a sprint user I already have access to verizon network so why dumb down my phone?
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i'm a sprint user but why don't u just go back to sprint? and when u see the 9900 we might both be going to verizon..... 🤣
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9900 ewwwwwwwwwww no thanks Sprint has way to much coolness comin down the pipe line.
Enjoy
Enjoy
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You really need to read the whole Copyright decision, especially beginning on page 48 which discusses carrier locks, and then around page 52 which covers ringtones and media, and why users should be allowed to access that material.
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/1201_recommendati ... »
Indeed, there does not appear to be any concern over protecting access to the Copyrighted work itself. The purpose of the software lock appears to be limiting the owners use of the mobile handset to support a business model, rather than to protect access to a Copyrighted work itself.
The ability to unilaterally reprogram the firmware may well extend to the ability to universally revamp the permissions system for accessing and using ringtones, sa ...
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http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/1201_recommendati ... »
Indeed, there does not appear to be any concern over protecting access to the Copyrighted work itself. The purpose of the software lock appears to be limiting the owners use of the mobile handset to support a business model, rather than to protect access to a Copyrighted work itself.
The ability to unilaterally reprogram the firmware may well extend to the ability to universally revamp the permissions system for accessing and using ringtones, sa ...
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On Monday Cell Phone Unlocking Software
will be LEGAL...you wont be able to walk in a verizon store with your fusic and say activated please.
From my understand an example would be those who have been putting Alltel UI on there verizon phones that was illegal before and on Monday it wont be.
will be LEGAL...you wont be able to walk in a verizon store with your fusic and say activated please.
From my understand an example would be those who have been putting Alltel UI on there verizon phones that was illegal before and on Monday it wont be.
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but it seemed like you could use your phone on another carrier's network as long as they both use the same technology. 😕
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Wireless Buddy said:
but it seemed like you could use your phone on another carrier's network as long as they both use the same technology. 😕
i don't bro I think most are still at the confused level, I'm pretty sure its not about taking any sprint phone in and having it activated, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out..
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Exactly we are still confused because noone really know sh*t yet.
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1050159 ... »
More reading but same confusion
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1050159 ... »
More reading but same confusion
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No, you are allowed to hack to get around their restrictions.
One of the restrictions is an ESN white list.
You can only use the ESNs on the white list so you would have to change the Fusic's ESN to one on the Verizon White List. However, that's probably not all you have to do. If there's someone who knows more than I, please fill in. 🙂
One of the restrictions is an ESN white list.
You can only use the ESNs on the white list so you would have to change the Fusic's ESN to one on the Verizon White List. However, that's probably not all you have to do. If there's someone who knows more than I, please fill in. 🙂
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what is an ESN white list and what would i have to do to activate a Fusic on an existing VZW account?
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A white list is a list of allowed ESNs. If the ESN is not on that list, it won't be allowed to be used on the Verizon Network.
Sprint does a similar thing.
Sprint does a similar thing.
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You uh... don't. The white list contains ESNs manufactured for VZW only. You can't have yours added on to it.
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Please stop posting the same link time after time again-STOP acting like you know what you're talking about cuz you dont.
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/cnbc- ... »
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/cnbc- ... »
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LL Cool Jake said:
Please stop posting the same link time after time again-STOP acting like you know what you're talking about cuz you dont.
Jake, I own stock in Apple and have that information. But if you are still doubtful, dig into Yahoo Finance (AAPL), CNN Money, Business Week and Forbes magazines for more stats or if you are skeptical of the fanboys. Read their prospectus. Take a look at the last 6 months!
Watch their stock on Monday too.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=6m »
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