I'm not a troll.
And you Sir are not understanding what is going on.

If the states are REMOVED from being able to handle consumer complaints IF the Early Termination Fees are now considered a "rate" and not a "penalty" then the only place to settle complaints will be with the FCC.

This is what CITA and SunCom filings want.

CITA and SunCom ask the FCC to prevent the States from being able to interfere in matters of ETF calling it a RATE FOR SERVICE not a PENALTY.

While 89% of consumers are treating it as a PENALTY not a RATE for Service.

This is OUTRAGEOUS, This is not TROLLING!
This is OUTRAGEOUS! This is DISASTEROUS!

They already have de-regulation, they now want no recourse for fraud/abusive practices? In ability to h...
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Doesn't Cingular do this but start with a $240 ETF? Then it goes down $10/month until you have nothing left. Last time I looked that's what they had at least.

Vatothe0 said:
Doesn't Cingular do this but start with a $240 ETF? Then it goes down $10/month until you have nothing left. Last time I looked that's what they had at least.

No, Cingular has a flat $150.

Actually, Cingular has both.

Some markets have a $240 prorated by the length of your contract and the rest of the country has $150 flat cancellation (Majority)

I live in a market where the ETF is a flat fee, regardless of how long your contract is. For carriers in Indiana, most markets are flat rate, but there are a few that are prorated at $240. But where I live, I'm tied into the Chicago market and it's flat. Here are the fees charged by the carriers in my area:

Verizon Wireless: $175
Cingular Wireless: $150
T-Mobile: $200
US Cellular: $150
Sprint PCS: $150
Nextel: $200 (if that still holds true today under Sprint)

While this service isn't in my area, in my brother's area of Starke County Indiana, there's Centennial Wireless and they charge a $250 EFT.

The state of IOWA soon will have NO SAY in USCC or VERIZONS actions if this Docket is accepted.

Then they could do whatever they want.

The PDF file is a cross argument to the docket, the real SunCom/CITA filing with the FCC is offlined right now, since the FCC document server is offlined.

CITA is a Join Venture of All Cellular Carriers seeking to remove BASIC freedoms afforded to us by state law, by CALLING the Early Termination Fee a
"RATE for Service" there by asking the FCC to REMOVE states ability to interfere in them Setting this RATE.

yeah, I understood that. I hope the docket is thrown out. I was just saying, the ETF is fair for everyone if it is pro-rated. And if cingular is doing it for their customers already, good for them, the rest of the carriers need to follow suit. Trust me, if cingular was offered in my area, the fact that they have a pro-rated ETF would get me in the door and possibly a new customer. And please do not start that cingular is terrible service, verizon is number one in service crap, we see enough of those already, everyone has their opinion. All I am saying that if a carrier offered pro-rated ETF's in my area, it would get my attention.

This stuff applies to ALL Cellular Carreirs who under the name CITA decided to remove your local state from every aspect of anything they do with the customer. up-to and including the states inability to sue them for fraud.

OK - OK We heard you....
I wish the ETF was $480.00 and prorated for all carriers at $20.00 per month on 2 yr contracts and $40.00 per month on 1 yr contracts.
I agree with prorating the penalty, I also agree that if someone signs a contract they should be held accountable if they break it. (I think thats what a contract is)....
You say you dont want a contract? Dont sign one ! - WOW- How simple...

Ok I have to say something and please correct me if i am wrong but isn't a prorated ETF unfair to customers who don't cancel their service early are the companies going to credit that amount back if i hold up my end of the deal any clarification would be great cause i don't think i should have to pay an extra 20 bucks a month (i have two lines) if i don't cancel early.

Pro-rating ETF's is a terrible idea. ETF's serve several functions for the carriers, and one of the biggest is the reduction of false chrun. The point of an ETF is to make it financially unsound to leave your contract early. If ETF's were pro-rated, churn levels would sky-rocket with every fickle customer calling in to cancel at the ETF price-point they feel most comfortable with (be it $50, $100, or whatever), just so they can sign up again to get that cool new phone at promotional pricing. VZW's ETF is set so that in almost any situation it should cost the customer more to cancel early and sign up again with promotional pricing. This keeps everyone's costs lower. If ETF's were pro-rated, the only way to recoup the losses woul

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Please explain "locked-in". You say it over and over yet it means nothing.

You might as well say "forced" to stay with verizon. Nobody is forced (locked-in) to any carrier for any length of time.

There's a trial period as well as the option of canceling early so there's no excuse.

And an early termination fee is a pentalty, not a "rate" for service rendered.

Lock-in is an artifical lock-in in which you are unable to perform a certain function that was sold to you by carrier along with equipment. This is possible (without the cheating or whateverelse - eg. v710) if carrier is un-able to fix problem, carrier should let people go, and it does not need to take a class-action to do this.

The CITA/Suncom seeks to make sure these class actions never happen again.

If people then (so unhappy with service for carrier) try sign up again (with same carrier), carrier can block them from doing so.

It's not like to many people will go and switch their Identity, just so they can take advantage of the new rateplan.

DKVZW said:
Lock-in is an artifical lock-in in which you are unable to perform a certain function that was sold to you by carrier along with equipment. This is possible (without the cheating or whateverelse - eg. v710) if carrier is un-able to fix problem, carrier should let people go, and it does not need to take a class-action to do this.

You keep coming up with vague references to things you can't do but never say what they are. v710 is old hat and settled (and fixed) so it has no bearing on whatever point you're trying to get at.

You're welcome to do whatever you want with the phone since it is yours. However if you change anything relating to how it interacts with the network, Verizon absolutel...
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DKVZW said:

Pro-rating ETF's is a terrible idea. ETF's serve several functions for the carriers, and one of the biggest is the reduction of false chrun. The point of an ETF is to make it financially unsound to leave your contract early. If ETF's were pro-rated, churn levels would sky-rocket with every fickle customer calling in to cancel at the ETF price-point they feel most comfortable with (be it $50, $100, or whatever), just so they can sign up again to get that cool new phone at promotional pricing. VZW's ETF is set so that in almost any situation it should cost the customer more to cancel early and sign up again with promotional pricing. This keeps everyone's costs lower. If ETF's were pro-rated, the on

...
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If Verizon Wireless charged $175 on the first day of activating a phone, and then allow the user to leave any time, being that they've "recouped" the losses allready this would be fine too.

Unfortunately the monthlies one will pay during a 1 or a 2 year contract are FAR greater then the $175.

I would gladly BUY all my handsets @ retail + give carrier ETF in advance if I knew that I could bounce anytime - but did not CITA state that ETF is to Recoup the costs of handsets?

If you buy your own phone, you should not need a contract, you should be able to use that phone to any extent needed, up-to and including taking it to an alternative carrier. Thats competition. Since Verizon Wireless is the only CDMA carrier in my area, all this eq...
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You can get service with verizon with no contract. You just don't get any promotions. No night and weekends, m2m, long distance, roaming, caller id, voicemail, or call forwarding.

Why do people take for granted all the things you get for free now? Just because everyone gives these things away WITH A CONTRACT doesn't mean you're entitled to them.

Why can't you pay the $175 upfront? I saw someone pay their entire contract upfront in one lump sum. $2700

You have no idea what you're talking about and just want everything your way for free. Start your own wireless company and run it this way and see how far you get.

"If Verizon Wireless charged $175 on the first day of activating a phone, and then allow the user to leave any time, being that they've "recouped" the losses allready this would be fine too." - Realistically, who in the right frame of mind would pay the $175.00 up front on TOP of the cost of a phone. Only rich bigwigs that have more money than common sense would, because they could. To the average Joe, paying more than what's advertised is unacceptable. Hell, they don't even want to pay what they really owe when it's due.

"Unfortunately the monthlies one will pay during a 1 or a 2 year contract are FAR greater then the $175." - No ****. So are the monthlys one would pay with prepay, or DSL internet services that make people sign a 1 year ...
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I'm not sure how it works with CDMA as I'm not as familiar with it as GSM. GSM phones can be unlocked for use with another GSM carrier. Most times, the carrier you are with will unlock it. The only exception I could see to this one is if a T-Mobile customers buys a Cingular phone off of ebay...T-Mobile subsidy unlock department needs the prior account information that the cingular phone was previously activated on. Cingular though can't seem to make up it's mind. When I ask, sometimes I'm told their equipment comes unlocked, and other times I'm told it doesn't...I dunno. I do know at one point, I worked for Cingular, too and customers did have the option of paying full price for equipment and having no contract service. I don't think that wo...
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Why? Why pay $175 up front so you could leave at any time when you can just pay it if you do actually choose to leave. If you pay up front and don't leave, you've just given away $175 for no reason.

As for signing up with your own phone without a contract - it's called prepay. The contract on the 'post pay' accounts is for the lower rates. Have you compared the rates for prepay and post pay? There's a reason the smart buyers choose a contract. You can choose a 1 year or 2 year to adjust the price of the phone more, but the month to month rates are the same regardless of the length of contract. You obviously get a much better deal on the phone with a 2 year contract.

And not for nothing, VZW has now more than one prepay option. Good point there. Very well said. 😁

vzw_achiever said:

bizkitsngravy said:
Personally, I think the concept of pro-rated ETF's is a very good idea.

Pro-rating ETF's is a terrible idea. ETF's serve several functions for the carriers, and one of the biggest is the reduction of false chrun. The point of an ETF is to make it financially unsound to leave your contract early. If ETF's were pro-rated, churn levels would sky-rocket with every fickle customer calling in to cancel at the ETF price-point they feel most comfortable with (be it $50, $100, or whatever), just so they can sign up again to get that cool new phone at promotional pricing. VZW's ETF is set so that in almost any situation it should cost the customer more to

...
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SystemShock said:
2) Abusing pro-rated ETFs (by cancelling & then rejoining) to get an early phone upgrade doesn't make sense as a MONEY thing, if you look at the above example.

Yeah, maybe you cancel your contract near the end and pay only a $50 ETF, in order to get a new phone for $100-150 off. Sounds like you shafted VZW, but you really didn't, considering that if you'd just waited until 2 months before the end of your contract, you could've gotten the upgrade pricing WITHOUT paying any ETF at all. You shafted yourself, more like.

You must not talk to a lot of customers. Thinking things through is a rarity for many people in this country (take DKTROLL for instance). I deal with people in the Gre...
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vzw_achiever said:

SystemShock said:
2) Abusing pro-rated ETFs (by cancelling & then rejoining) to get an early phone upgrade doesn't make sense as a MONEY thing, if you look at the above example.

Yeah, maybe you cancel your contract near the end and pay only a $50 ETF, in order to get a new phone for $100-150 off. Sounds like you shafted VZW, but you really didn't, considering that if you'd just waited until 2 months before the end of your contract, you could've gotten the upgrade pricing WITHOUT paying any ETF at all. You shafted yourself, more like.

You must not talk to a lot of customers. Thinking things through is a rarity for many people in this country (take DKTROLL for in

...
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Well Put!!!!

And, yes verizon is clobbering the competition right now, so, you are correct in saying they do not need to think of stuff like this. But, they should start, and stop taking things away. As K-mart, General Motors, and Ford were all on top of the hill at one time, and look at those companies now, Ford just anounced that they are laying off up to 30,000 workers.

Hopefully verizon wakes up before it comes to that. I still say Alltel is the company to watch, they are buying other cell companies and sneaking up the hill. That is just my guess, time will tell.

Well, T-Mobile's upgrade prices periodically change. They don't give a flat $50 or a flat $100 anymore. If you are on a 12 month contract, you get the full discount after 11 active months of service, plus they offer a "best" upgrade pricing if you sign a 2 year contract. Different rebates and discounts are available and always changing. You might get $50 off, you might get $150 off...just depeneds. They were just starting the 2 year contract when I left, but I believe it's 22 months on a 24 month contract to get full discount, but you can get 1 year contract discount pricing at 11 months if you extend for another 2 years from that date, which really only extends your current contract expiration by 1 year...it can be confusing.