GinniUA said:
Edge and UMTS should have nothing to do with it. If that's true then why does Nextel connect so fast? Maybe there is more to that company than everyone gives credit to? 😳

The reason why NEXTEL connects so fast is the Motorola iDEN technology is based on a similar technology that Motorola puts into its public safety radio systems. Those systems have a 1/4 second connect time and NEXTEL is no different under normal circumstances.

Also NEXTEL is an SMR (Specialized Mobile Radio) and not a cellular carrier. The phone interconnect is secondary to the PTT in iDEN as well. That is why the most previous NEXTEL commercials advertised their PTT and not cellular capabilities.

the biggest thing we have to sell is our coverage -- Sprextel's PTT coverage map is puny compared to ours.

Well, you shouldn't be worrying about selling it yet anyways, considering it's not even out yet. I'm sure they won't release a crappy product that we won't be able to sell. A 7 second wait for PTT will not sell.

If I remember correctly the 7 second wait is only for the initiation of the PTT call -- the trainer compared it to dialing a number and waiting for it to connect with a tower, etc. I may be wrong though.

Look Cingular finally can't match up to someone and you cingular yuppies are just going to have to admit it!

7 second PTT ? Get the f outa here
Oh and you only have 2 phone so far with PTT for your rollout ..... ALL OF NEXTEL'S PHONE HAVE DC, and got news for ya? what good is your coverage if only a very slim portion actually have a ptt phone?


On the plus, the cingular guy at my store said that it will be an add-on to you plan, i.e. $5 for unlimited or somthing like that..... an extreme plus

Look Cingular finally can't match up to someone and you cingular yuppies are just going to have to admit it!

7 second PTT ? Get the f outa here
Oh and you only have 2 phone so far with PTT for your rollout ..... ALL OF NEXTEL'S PHONE HAVE DC, and got news for ya? what good is your coverage if only a very slim portion actually have a ptt phone?

The iDEN network is built based on Direct Connect. Cingular is built on coverage, not sole purpose of PTT. You are comparing apples and oranges. I'd rather have 2 choices in PTT phones and great coverage than sweet iDEN Moto phones and lousy coverage.

AshDizzle said:

Look Cingular finally can't match up to someone and you cingular yuppies are just going to have to admit it!

7 second PTT ? Get the f outa here
Oh and you only have 2 phone so far with PTT for your rollout ..... ALL OF NEXTEL'S PHONE HAVE DC, and got news for ya? what good is your coverage if only a very slim portion actually have a ptt phone?

The iDEN network is built based on Direct Connect. Cingular is built on coverage, not sole purpose of PTT. You are comparing apples and oranges. I'd rather have 2 choices in PTT phones and great coverage than sweet iDEN Moto phones and lousy coverage.

Nextel covers all the arias i need to go. cingular does not. there...
(continues)

obviously in some areas it's going to be different. i'm in upstate new york and the coverage for nextel here isn't good at all. neither is sprint. if you don't have verizon or cingular you're out of luck.

i think above and beyond the coverage debate however, is the fact that PTT is intrusive, as people who have nextel in my call center don't turn their phones off, so when someone PTT's them, everyone can hear it. i don't see a real benefit to this feature anyways.

and nextel only carries motorola iDEN phones. for me, i would prefer a larger selection of handsets that could do what cellphones are supposed to do. if i want a walkie talkie, i'll go and buy one.

just my opinion though.

xoxo

Nokia 6682, Lg f7200, samsung d357

6682 is not PTT

It has the capability, therefore, it will be ptt.

Just because it has the capability doesn't mean it will be PTT. The t637 had the capability...so does the z500, but they're not PTT phones, nor will they be without proper software.

As of right now the only two phones that will release with PTT are the LG F7200 (which my store currently has 2 of for training purposes) and the Samsung D357.

I would like to see Cingular offer software updates for other phones that could support it. This would make it a lot easier for large numbers of people to adopt (instead of just new activations and upgrades) and give a larger variety of phone without actually launching more than those two. I'd put it on my s710a if I could simply for demonstration purposes and so the store could contact me quick...
(continues)

Uhh, dude, a statement can't be made false just for one person. If someone says the sky's blue, and I look up, wearing rose colored glasses, and see it purple, that statement isn't false for me. The sky is still blue, I'm just the dope walking around wearing rose colored glasses.

It is actually carried on the voice network, rather than the data network. So, it does have some advantages over Verizon 😉

does that mean you cannot make your ptt contact list on the internet?

i will admit being able to switch from ptt right into voice calling is cool

but you do not get any off network ptt service.

you can get that with nextel.

Yes, you will be able to update your list from the internet.

Overall, I am excited about launching PTT, I am going to wait until some other phones come out.

As far as the off network PTT, that will be coming soon. Right now it works only on the Cingular network voice side (which is still more than Nextel).

stevelvl said:

but you do not get any off network ptt service.

you can get that with nextel.

because Cingular doesn't have 2 networks (voice/PTT) Our PTT uses the SAME voice network, so there would be no such thing as using "off-network"

jinx7676 said:

stevelvl said:

but you do not get any off network ptt service.

you can get that with nextel.

because Cingular doesn't have 2 networks (voice/PTT) Our PTT uses the SAME voice network, so there would be no such thing as using "off-network"

nextel does not have 2 networs eather. iden is ptt over voice. in fact ptt came first then latter on moto figured out they could put voice into the ptt channel.

now however some nextel phones include an additional ability to use 900 mhz off network radio trafic for ptt when out of range of any tower.

iden thus far is the only technology which is capable of this.

ahhh. i see

thanks....

now is this just local push to talk or nationwide push to talk? (sorry i ask this i was sick for the weekend and til now {still sick though} and i havnt paid attention on here till now)

thanks.

It will be nationwide PTT over voice channels. 😁

wow... thats not to good. the intra isnt that bad, but the set-up call is horrible.

any ideas why its so horrible over the voice network?

the way it was explained to me is that it's just like a voice call when your phone is connecting

yea that sounds right... it sounds like its a regular call. perhaps over data would be better especially over umts/hsdpa.

any ideas why they didnt put it over data?

you think this will do well? (i dont after the 7 seconds and basically uses up a voice channel)

That i don't know... i'm sure they want to see how it will sell first. That's the main reason theyre only launching 2 phones. They really dont expect to sell that much initially

well the 2 phones are understandable becuase they dont want to waste money just in case it doesnt work out, but my main question is how come they put it over the voice channels and not the data channels? any idea?

Putting PTT over data was the original plan. They decided to do it over voice to increase the coverage area.

rgr... they chose voice network over data as per the data isnt available at EVERY tower, unlike voice. Cingulars PTT has alot more control than Nextels does.

As previously noted the thing causing the longer setup is the fact that your phone is actually dialing over the voice channels. Kodiak's solution actually is supposed to work over voice channels so that things like PTT-cellular conversion and Instant voice messages can happen. It's my understanding that that decision is more solution based than anything. As for putting it over data channels....that would definately sacrifice both coverage area AND sound quality. Not to mention GPRS probably wouldn't be able to handle that amount of data at PTT speeds. Now once UMTS/HSDPA is up and running in significant amounts of area it would most likely be more feasible to run PTT on data channels. In that case the client itself may even be able to ...
(continues)

I'm really not sure. I might be wrong but i think kodiak is only over voice.

if kodiak is over voice, which they are, why didnt they pick another solution? ideas?

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"System Highlights
Working over today's highly optimized voice channels, the Kodiak RTX provides carriers with all of the benefits associated with current voice networks - quality, reach, range of services-while adding desirable premium calling features. Competing systems based on VoIP networks, eliminate many of the benefits subscribers have come to expect with voice networks. "

http://kodiaknetworks.com/solutions/solutions.html »

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Lots of questions... that i don't know. Maybe it came down to cost

hey i like throwing questions out there... if you dont know its ok... i posted another thing to you too.

KODIAK was a more expensive option than using data. They decided on it because it gives Cingular the largest PTT coverage in the industry.

simplymarcus said:
KODIAK was a more expensive option than using data. They decided on it because it gives Cingular the largest PTT coverage in the industry.

I thought the voice and data network was the same??

No the coverage area on voice is a lot bigger. there are some area that u have a signal and can make a call but no GPRS signal. In that case u will not be able to send MMS or access wireless internet.

well, according to stuff i have read it's supposedly faster than nextel once you get connected. so theirs no point in asking why it wasnt used over data instead of voice.

Can't get any faster than iDEN (NEXTEL) in latency. iDEN is as close to real time as you can get.

Wrong. Once the initial connection is made, our latency is faster then Nextel. I've actually used our PTT on the LG F7200, and it's overall latency is faster then Nextel. When I push the PTT button on our phones (to another phone across the store), unlike Nextel it doesn't sound like I have an echo, but rather that I'm just throwing my voice and talking from two places at once.

here is something interesting....


http://www.sonimtech.com/newsroom/documents/northstr ... »

page 25. talks about POC and circuit switched.

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http://www.claritycsi.com/html/push-to-talk_solution ... »

another one...

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there are all over.... its pretty cool reading...

anyway, if you dont know its ok,, just throwing some things out there...

if you get a chance test it and tell us your findings.

Shoota said:
the way it was explained to me is that it's just like a voice call when your phone is connecting

Your almost right on with that. It does treat it as a voice call while iDEN keeps a real-time track of the subscriber as it roams from cell to cell. That is one of the main reasons as to why iDEN has a 1/4 second initial connect time vs all the other technologies.

ive never used ptt but to me a 7 second delay isnt that terrible, especially since its only .1 seconds after that

If it takes 7 seconds to connect you might as well just call the other person. It's a worthless deployment if it doesn't add an enhancement to the user. It won't be a very popular item IMO.

You should go into a SprintNEXTEL store and try their PTT so you know how it should work. 😉

MarkF said:
There is near to zero latency with iDEN, which is the Motorola technology that NEXTEL uses. It is based on the same technology that Public Safety uses on their 800 SmartZone trunked radio systems. It may give it a run for it's money, but it will never surpass it.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Nextel bash fest, but once it's connected our latency is faster then nextel, it's just the initial connection. Basically what it's doing is setting up a half-duplex phone call where you now have to push a button to talk each time. The voice network handles this much better then a data network like Nextel. Personally I think it's rather annoying, but I put in my original post that I don't understan...
(continues)

AGREED! However, I might add that it really doesn't NEED to surpass NEXTEL in order to be a good seller. It only needs to be on par with it (here's the important part of the statement) IN THE PUBLIC EYE. The average consumer won't even understand the term "latency" and would only take notice of a significant lag time. As long as it takes very little time from the time that they push the button to the time that they're able to talk, they'll be happy.

This feature is for businesses with on-site employees and those average consumers who tend to adopt fads.

Very true, very true.

A bit of warning for anyone walking into a cingular store anytime after we launch these phones, be prepared to hear a lot of chirping, cause I'm sure everyone is going to want to come in and see it for themselves after all this talk.