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Downloading Games, Need Clarification Please

Cellboob01

May 22, 2005, 5:39 PM
I don't understand how games, graphics, and ringtones work exactly.

What I would like to be able to do is download games, graphics, and ringtones to my computer, then transfer them to my phone to avoid paying for the download on a $.03 per kilobyte charge (if I select Cingular).

I have been browsing the Cingular website, and it seems as though the only way to get the content to your phone is to download them wirelessly through your phone. Amazingly, they don't even state how large of a file the game is, but clearly state that you will be billed according to the file size and your plan.

I have a broadband connection, that I pay a monthly charge for, that is perfectly capable of downloading any and all content from the internet. There...
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captainplooky

May 23, 2005, 1:14 AM
You know I have been trying to figure that out too.
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Aleq

May 23, 2005, 10:23 AM
So, you pay for the item you're downloading, then you pay the freight for downloading it TOO? ๐Ÿ˜ณ Now there's a doubledip for you. On TMo, every account has enough WAP access to download ringers, wallpapers and games from our server, but the price of transmitting is included with the price of the item. I don't understand this whole "data transmission as valuable as gold" paradigm... Any geek will tell you that shoving packets with error correction is way more cost effective than shoving voice where every dropout is noted and not appreciated. Shoveling data is cheap... ๐Ÿ™„
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Cellboob01

May 23, 2005, 10:54 PM
I agree.

Not only that, but you are charged for the kb's used in the transmission/error-control protocol as well.

Like I said, I got a broadband connection and would rather use that then have it sent to me wirelessly.

Also, I would like to know how large the games are.

/shrug
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THE BOX

May 24, 2005, 9:56 PM
the games are about 2.00-4.00 for the very largest ones and you cant put it on your pc and then to your phone !
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 3:18 AM
you cant put it on your pc and then to your phone !


Sigh. I have had several representatives tell me this was indeed possible. Why isn't it? Certainly it's not unreasonable considering all the other services and uses Cingular employs the internet for.

If it is not possible, how do I find out how large the file is, so that I can determine how much it will be to download.
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THE BOX

May 26, 2005, 4:38 PM
download the damn thing !
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texaswireless

May 23, 2005, 12:08 PM
If you have MMS then the download (when ordered from the internet) is treated as a single message. YOu either pay $0.25 or a message counts against your package.

If you browse for the item using your handset the cost is by KB.
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Cellboob01

May 23, 2005, 10:49 PM
Could you please reference me to where I can read this via the Cingular site?

The reason I say this is because when I go to the Cingular Extra site with my broadband connection and select games I arrive at:

http://www-xl.cingularextras.com/fuel/enduser/portal ... »

and then when I select a game, WPT Texas Hold'em for this example, I arrive at:

http://www.cingularextras.com/fuel/enduser/portal/en ... »

Here I select the model and phone I have, I chose to select a Nokia 6230 for this example. I then arrived at:

http://www-xl.cingularextras.com/fuel/enduser/portal ... »...
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texaswireless

May 23, 2005, 11:45 PM
Why don't you try visiting your local Cingular location? ๐Ÿ˜
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texaswireless

May 23, 2005, 11:45 PM
BTW, I thought you were returning that phone.
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Cellboob01

May 24, 2005, 12:40 AM
Oh I have.

I was just using that for an example.

I haven't ruled Cingular out completely, as the options are a bit limited in my area. I'm still waiting on my refund currently.

I had spoken to the rep in the store and called the number on the brochure but got conflicting answers.
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THE BOX

May 24, 2005, 9:59 PM
omfg i just realized who you are ole cellboob you are reading too much in to this just download the damn gam if you want it bad enough and see how much it costs if you afraid of loosing 7 bucks then dont do it !


you get the most annoying customer ever award
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captainplooky

May 24, 2005, 11:39 PM

omfg i just realized who you are ole cellboob you are reading too much in to this just download the damn gam if you want it bad enough and see how much it costs if you afraid of loosing 7 bucks then dont do it !


Buy it now and find out the cost later? You and TexasWireless should start a club.

Let's see. You complain about customers not understanding their plans and calling in to dispute their billing AND at the same time you berate customers for trying to understand their plans and how they will be charged.

DO YOU EVEN SEE HOW FREAKING IDIOTIC THAT IS????
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 12:52 PM
Hey pooky bear.

Nevermind....
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 3:19 AM
CaptainPlooky said it all.

Out of curiousity The Box, how many times do you purchase things without knowing how much they are going to cost?
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JephMan

May 25, 2005, 1:02 PM
Almost everytime I go to a restaraunt
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DigAHole

Feb 17, 2007, 2:21 PM
Typical...
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captainplooky

Feb 19, 2007, 3:13 PM
Isn't it thought ๐Ÿคฃ
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texaswireless

May 24, 2005, 12:22 PM
No, I won't reference to where it is on the site because:

a) I do not sell using the site so I do not know where the terms and conditions of each and every item there might be located

b) In our training AND my bill I see how each charge is posted and know, at least in my area, that my statement is true.

If you don't want to believe the answer don't ask the question.
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captainplooky

May 24, 2005, 11:35 PM
Haha.

If you don't want to believe the answer don't ask the question.

So in other words trust you and when he gets the bill he has to pay for no matter what. Do you even realize how silly that sounds?

The dude asked where to find that on the site after showing he would be charged! You can't even answer a simple question and then get defensive about it.


a) I do not sell using the site so I do not know where the terms and conditions of each and every item there might be located

b) In our training AND my bill I see how each charge is posted and know, at least in my area, that my statement is true.


Your training was adequate since you don't know where to direct people to find out the p
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 12:31 PM
Please explain to me where it is in my interest to show someone across the country how to find the T&C on a website not run, owned or designed by me?

If a customer comes into my store, they will get the proper info. If a customer calls me who lives in my region they will get the proper info.

If someone asks me a question online, and I qualify it by saying this is how it works where I am, and they want more proof then too bad for them. I am not going to fax over propreitary training materials so he can be comfortable with my answer. I especially do not feel the need to help a guy who rips me for trying in the first place.

I only have so many hands that may be bitten off by the wolves.
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 3:12 AM
So let me get this straight.

The information on the website is not accurate, even though it is plainly displayed on the website.

The information you are giving me is accurate because that is how you were billed and were trained, yet can reference nowhere where this information can be obtained?

Do you sell price plans in this manner?

It is amazing to me I have never been able to get a straight answer regarding this.
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 12:13 PM
My lord you are a fool.

I have written information on the rates here in my store. Get on a f**king plane and come pick some up for yourself. I am not going to try and point out to you where the prices are located on a website not run by me or my company. As I stated in one of my earlier replies. Go to a store.

This is hilarious. You are attempting to rip me because a store across the country from you is not able to answer questions to your satisfaction.

You got a straight answer, you just didn't like the fact that I didn't fax you my training documents.
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 1:17 PM
Oh and btw,

I made the detrmination to stop putting in my time and effort to help you when you became an a$$ on different threads towards me. You need to learn some better people skills if you want to attempt to gain help on here.

Your first post alienated quite a few here, but overall IMO you were right. Your subsequent posts have done nothing to elicit help from those that may have the knowledge to solve your issue. Your attempt to start pissing contests with others are annoying in my opinion.

Yes, you have every right to do so, but I have the right to stop trying to help.
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 7:38 PM
I would hope that conversations regarding other matters would stay contained in those threads.

Yes, you have every right to do so, but I have the right to stop trying to help.


I agree.

However, if you do help, please don't lie or get upset when the information you relay cannot be verified. Also please note, that when the information you supply cannot be verified, the natural conclusion would be that you are mistaken or lying.
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 7:55 PM
That's the thing about rude and condescending behavior. Regardless of where it happens the focus of your statements are not contained in that single environment.

And as to your second statement, you say if I help to not lie? Way to move up on that social grace scale there buddy. Insult me in other threads and then accuse me of lying. That is a great way to get people to help you.

I am not in the business of relaying information that can be verified via other sources online (BTW, if it can be verified online they why are you asking?). I am only concerned that it could be verified by a customer in MY store or in MY area. I am not an online vendor, therefore my products and services need only be sourced to my avenues of distribution...
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 8:25 PM
Or.

Please don't lie or get upset when the information you relay cannot be verified.


...I am only concerned that it could be verified by a customer in MY store or in MY area... am not an online vendor, therefore my products and services need only be sourced to my avenues of distribution...(I am not saying they do or do not, I personally do not know or care)....


Your customers do not use Cingular.com as part of their rate plan?

You don't tout ringtone,graphics, and other content as a selling feature?

I am failing to see how your information regarding this would be any more verifiable if I where in your store and asked the same questions.
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 9:51 PM
I wanted to send a long diatribe but realized I would be repeating myself to someone who doesn't deserve my time.

You added the LIE portion for no other reason than to infer I lied. There are many reps here who get terribly upset at a$$holes like you, as they haven't developed the maturity to blow off people with your jaded views. I am beyond that now (I got just as angry when I was younger) and just say my peace.

You dug your own hole and now want to blame people on this board for skewing your view of Cingular. Why don't you use the resources available to you as provided by Cingular. Get your keys (or more likely your bus pass), drive on down the road and visit a friendly neighborhood store. They should have the same resources I ...
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 10:01 PM

There are many reps here who get terribly upset at a$$holes like you


The same reps complain about their customers not understanding their plan and rates. Yet, it should be obvious by now why this is.

My question was very straightforward. After your response I asked where to find reference to this. Was that truely unreasonable?

As I have stated, I did visit my local corp store. As the case here, I received multiple, often contradictory responses.

I was hoping if I could find the official information from Cingular regarding this, so I could dispell my questions. Unreasonable?

I do appreciate your time in trying to answer my question.
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 10:21 PM
No you don't appreciate my time. You called me a liar.

If the stores in your area are incompetent is that my fault? Oh yeah, I am a corporate owner, must be my fault. It's either the local franchise owner of Quiznos next to me or my company that is corrupt, since we have less than a 50-50 chance.

Get on a plane and come to Lubbock. Visit the Buddy Holly Museum and see some hot Texas Tech coeds at the local bars (I have a feeling you need to get you some). Before you leave visit my store and I will show you, in writing, all you wish to see. It MAY only apply to North Texas or Central Region customers but that will be my fault since I don't know your region's policies and procedures well enough to confirm if they are the same or di...
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captainplooky

May 26, 2005, 6:14 AM
Look at the webpage the dude linked!

YOU ARE LYING!!!!!!
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 10:15 AM
What exactly are you Mr. Pooky? Do you work for or represent Cingular is some way, shape or form? Are you aware of the billing process for MMS in the North Texas region? Have you taken the Cingular University Online classes that explain this billing process or have you seen the channel communications explaining the billing process?

Just want to know where you are coming from to accuse me of being a liar.

Thanks
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lil_smurfy

May 26, 2005, 6:06 PM
why does it matter to you if you arent even a cingular customer?
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 6:11 PM
Allegedly he is a Cingular customer but apparently everyone he has ever met with in N or S Carolina that works for Cingular has been unable to assist him.

Or he is just trying to break own balls.

I don't think anyone knows for sure.
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 7:35 PM
TexasWireless, I hope you are capable of seeing how your responses have illustrated your lack of knowledge regarding the company you so proudly represent.

I am not going to try and point out to you where the prices are located on a website not run by me or my company


I see. The Cingular.com website has no bearing whatsoever on your customers, and you as their rep, should have no understanding of the services available there or how to use it. Very interesting business model.

You are attempting to rip me because a store across the country from you is not able to answer questions to your satisfaction.


What an addle minded comment. I'm trying to figure out how much I would be char...
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 7:13 PM
Do you enjoy making the same point over and over and over?

The Cingular.com website with pricing guidelines as you state them to be has no bearing whatsoever on my customers because I educate them FIRST before they go to the site and therefore they do not need to rely on what may or may not be posted there.

All the information does not suggest you would be charged another way. Again with this nonsense. The information on the website speaks in general terms since it has no idea what your individual rate plan may contain in terms of data features. I explained how it would work should you choose to add MMS features to your account and how the MMS message would be used instead of charging you per KB. If you JUST had MEdia NET you would...
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JephMan

May 25, 2005, 12:45 PM
WPT is 61KB
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JephMan

May 25, 2005, 12:58 PM
When you buy the game from the web it sends you a service message, when you open the service message it tells you the amount of KB that the game is, you can then download the game or exit. Is that good?
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 7:43 PM
Yeah Jeph, only this is yet another example of a new answer I have gotten in regards to my inquiry.

So, I have to buy the game before I can find out how large it is?

If after I buy the game, receive the message which states the size of the game, and choose not to download it because of it size, is the purchase price of the game refunded or has that charge just not actually been applied at that time, and won't?
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megs72979

May 25, 2005, 7:54 PM
they won't be that large, like you said earlier, 1MB. just buy a media package for a month and take it off if you stop using the internet. stop being cheap.
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 8:28 PM
stop being cheap.


I'm happy to hear money is a luxury for you, for me it is not.

I'm sure you and others allready see the blatant ignorance of this statement and others in this thread, so I will only point that out passively with this comment.
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JephMan

May 26, 2005, 8:33 AM
You will not get charged unless you download the game. You have to accept the download to download the game. Before you accept, it tells you what the kilobytes are. I thought I was clear in my previous message, hopefully this gives you a more simply understanding.
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Cellboob01

May 26, 2005, 5:37 PM
No you were not explicitly clear about that, which is why I asked. I aslo asked, because it seems to runs contrary to the information presented on the website.

http://www.cingular.com/media/ringtones_disclaimers »

Ringtones and graphics are charged when sent to the phone, even if it is not saved or purposely discarded. Ringtones and graphics are nontransferable.


I've had confusion in the past, I'm trying to prevent that in the future.
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lil_smurfy

May 26, 2005, 6:24 PM
saved and downloaded mean to seperate things actually
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lil_smurfy

May 26, 2005, 6:23 PM
it would be helpful if you actually had a cingular fon to try any of the methods on
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themike314

May 25, 2005, 2:09 PM
Cellboob01 said:
I don't understand how games, graphics, and ringtones work exactly.


Do not meddle with things you don't understand.
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cingularbentmeover

May 25, 2005, 4:07 PM
you want to pleasure of taking a game with you on the go? buy a GAME BOY or a PSP. but if you do please dont call into their cus care to complain when the batteries die on you. Its people like you that ask questions get answers then complain about the answers you get that make our (CSRs) job hard to do. We have to work within the system to help you...like it or not this is the way it is....deal with it
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 7:29 PM
Excuse me?

Its people like you that ask questions get answers then complain about the answers you get that make our (CSRs) job hard to do.


It's people like me who are trying to understand how Cingular does business that are the cause of the daily complaints you get in regards to rates and plans

News flash!!!! If Cingular and reps could actually explain their rates and plans without every rep contradicting the other, perhaps your call volume would decrease.

If nothing else, this thread is yet another perfect example of the hypocrisy evidenced throughout this board.

Rep1: Customers are so stupid.
Rep2: Yeah, they can't even understand their bill.
Cust1: I have a question about billing.
Rep1: STFU...
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 7:58 PM
Go into a store boob. Stop asking questions that may have regional answers and expecting to receive the same answer on a national website.

Go into a store boob.

Go into a store boob.

Go into a store boob.
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 8:31 PM

Go into a store boob. Stop asking questions that may have regional answers and expecting to receive the same answer on a national website.


WOW!!!!!!!

I never knew that ordering a game from online from the official Cingular website would have regional stipulations.

May? May? I thought you were trained and knew exactly what the circumstances regarding this were. Now it seems you "may" think they have regional answers, which is laughable by the way.

Do you really have to wonder why the vast amount of problems exist within Cinular currently? I guess I'm the source of them all though.
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 9:54 PM
Go into a store boob. Stop wasting other's time here when you have no intentions to believe them anyways.
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Cellboob01

May 25, 2005, 10:04 PM
You do realize that people can attempt and succeed to deceive and mislead you in person?

I just would like to read Cingular documentation on this matter, I want to know the facts as Cingular presents them, not take someone's word for it.

Unreasonable?
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 10:22 PM
So if your intention was to find the offer in writing why did you not ask for that in the first place?

Beep, beep, beep, beep.

I hear your reverse horn loud and clear.
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texaswireless

May 25, 2005, 10:26 PM
Oh, and I will even bring the tape recorder for you.
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lil_smurfy

May 26, 2005, 6:50 PM
or better yet call the web support line that is provided for you on the internet. CSR are not trained to assist ppl on the web, but a web tech would love to help you. No I wont send you my job description in writing to prove that we dont receive training on the web, you'll just have to take my word for it
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 6:56 PM
For someone who claims to have exhausted all his resources and must now seek third party help, he sure doesn't read very well. ๐Ÿ™‚

If you don't mind do you have that number handy?
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lil_smurfy

May 26, 2005, 7:11 PM
surely do.....866-391-0749
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 7:41 PM
You the man.
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cingularbentmeover

May 26, 2005, 10:37 AM
It's people like me who are trying to understand how Cingular does business that are the cause of the daily complaints you get in regards to rates and plans



No cellboob

All you do is complain about everything. I for one dont care if people call in all day everyday to ask questions about their bill(makes my day easy) Its people like you who complain....at us the people who answer the phone and who answer your questions the best we can...and when you dont like the answers we give you..you call back and start to rep shop to get the answer you want. You dont thing we dont notae everytime people call in? You think we dont know that you've (or someone like you) already have called in 5,6,or even 7 times in 1 day asking the same questio...
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Cellboob01

May 26, 2005, 5:41 PM
My answer for you is this:

Learn you job where you can answer those questions the first time, so that people don't have to call in to receive multiple answers to the same question.

It's not a matter of not "liking" the answers given to me, it's a matter of the answer varying from rep to rep. It's also a matter of those answers clearly clashing with what Cingular has posted as their policy when you can actually find such information.

...shut up and dont waste our time anymore...


Just as applicable to you, if you are not capable of doing the job you were hired for.

Of course, if the information I seek could be readily obtained from the brochures or literature Cingular produces this question would never ...
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 6:15 PM
I think someone gave you your answer, but again, you don't want to believe anyone without third party verification.

Oh, and his answer DID NOT contradict your website you find so dear. He said if you do NOT download you aren't charged. Your website said if you download but do not save or discard you are still billed.
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SiGnAl BlOcK

May 26, 2005, 8:01 PM
DAMMIT MAN!! Okay I have had enough of this Customers vs. Cingular bullsh!t!! To Cellboob01: In terms of the downloading of the games...if you are not sure about the price or size or whatever it is you are complaining about then DON'T DOWNLOAD the game!! There are other websites you can get games from!! It DOESN'T have to be from Cingular!! To the Cingular reps: There really is no need to BERATE customers who have questions! Either answer the question they are asking or DON'T respond! If the customer chooses to be an A-hole about you helping them then just don't help them. Before anyone jumps in my face I am a CINGULAR CUSTOMER NOT A REP. I am a PROUD Cingular customer as well. I am just sick of the reps AND customers fighting in this forum ...
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lil_smurfy

May 26, 2005, 8:23 PM
AMEN!!!!!
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Tea Dez

May 26, 2005, 10:17 PM
This should be posted in all of the other forums as well. ๐Ÿ˜ณ
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Cellboob01

May 26, 2005, 10:26 PM
Try re-reading this thread.

Notice the use of "please" and how I was merely trying to clarify discrepancies.

You fail to understand that I requested help, the participants in the thread initiated contact, and I was responding and engaging them in regards to their responses.

I encourage you to read up on projection as it pertains to being a barrier in communication. I believe this to be a large source of the disgruntlement you perceive.
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SiGnAl BlOcK

May 26, 2005, 10:39 PM
LOL! Your a real funny guy you know that? You also have the perfect name too. I never said you didn't ask for help and obviously you failed to understand what I said. What I said to you was that you didn't like the help that was offered to you and seemed dissatisfied. My suggestion was if you didn't like the help you received don't ask for it from the people in this forum. Plain and simple. ๐Ÿ™„
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repCB

May 26, 2005, 9:44 AM
I'm not customer-bashing or anything, but I seriously wonder about this. If you are having so many problems with Cingular, why are you still with the service?

Personally, I'd just cancel and port my number. I know I shouldn't say that as a rep, but that may be best for you. Something to consider.
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Cellboob01

May 26, 2005, 5:45 PM
I'm not with Cingular. I tried to order a phone but cancelled, and after being mislead, having additional features added on to my plan, and having my contract extended by 100%.

I have not ruled it out service with Cingular. Why? The answer to that question even I do not have the answer to currently.
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 6:18 PM
If you don't know why you want Cingular service why have you wasted all this time (I'm not even counting the time we've wasted) going back and forth asking these questions?

That is simply not logical. There has to be one reason why you want Cingular, otherwise I would just chalk it up to the fact you must be a sadist.
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Cellboob01

May 26, 2005, 6:23 PM

There has to be one reason why you want Cingular


You are correct. The reason is my job.
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 6:58 PM
Then why were you being a drama queen posting the whoa is me I don't even know why I want Cingular? Why not just say I am required by my job to have Cingular even though they are pissing me off?

Talk about someone not being honest.
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LilShorty

May 26, 2005, 5:11 PM
Usually, it seems that the Cingular reps here are just mean and unhelpful and have blinders regarding the company they work for, but I have to agree with them here. The game is NOT going to be 1MB. These are CELL PHONES with itty bitty memories. If you want the game badly enough, accept the charge plus the additional change it will cost per kb. If you don't want the game badly enough, then don't buy it. If the reps don't have an answer as to what it's going to be before you buy it, then they DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER. Sometimes, unfortunately, that's the way it is. There is way too much information out there for anyone to have all the answers. It's a game on a cell phone, NOT brain surgery. Not a big deal. ๐Ÿ™„
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Cellboob01

May 26, 2005, 5:52 PM
Your correct.

I do not know how large the games are simply because there is no way to know this before purchasing them.

The answers I received, "Just buy more stuff even if you don't need it," or "stop being cheap," are hardily worthy of being considered answers.

So far, these are the answers I have gotten.

1) There is no charge for downloading the games.

2) There is a charge for downloading the games, but you cannot see file size.

3) There is a charge for downloading the games, and you can see how large the file is beforehand, but all charges will be incurred even if discarded.

4) There is a charge for downloading the games,
and you can see how large the file is beforehand, but all charges will not be incurred if di...
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 7:20 PM
Well, the several of the ones you have received here a right, depending on your plan. They were clearly layed out for you with one exception, we don't have the ability (or in my case, the desire) to show you the offer in writing.

With your attitude I would be willing to bet people might even be tempted to give you misinformation. Considering my response was given before your jerkoff side came out you can decide to believe or not.
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Cellboob01

May 26, 2005, 9:41 PM
Reference "signing bonus" for the prologue for this post please, first three paragraphs.
https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »

You make alot of assumptions in these thread about who I am and what I do. Assumptions you criticize me for making in other areas that have substanially more evidence suggesting the accuracy of said assumptions. Unreasonable to say the least.

In parting, I leave you with the words of Benjamin Franklin.


"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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lil_smurfy

May 26, 2005, 9:49 PM
though shalt heed thine own advice about the insanity!
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texaswireless

May 26, 2005, 11:25 PM
Bowing out?
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captainplooky

May 27, 2005, 12:02 AM
AWHAWHAHHAAHHhahahwhhHAHWHA

You're all like trying to call HAXXOR or WALLHACK but everyone knows you got ROXXORED straight up by 133Tn355.

Next thing you'll be calling is AIMBOT but no turkeys buying that jive.
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thickjake

Feb 18, 2007, 12:48 PM
Huh? ๐Ÿคจ
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captainplooky

Feb 18, 2007, 5:51 PM
Captainplooky
AWHAWHAHHAAHHhahahwhhHAHWHA


Translation: HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Captainplooky
You're all like trying to call HAXXOR or WALLHACK but everyone knows you got ROXXORED straight up by 133Tn355.


Translation: You are trying to use silly arguments to try to detract from the fact that you have been thoroughly pummeled by logical arguments.

Captainplooky
Next thing you'll be calling is AIMBOT but no turkeys buying that jive.


Translation: In the future, I expect, you will try similar silly arguments, but no one will believe them either.
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thickjake

Feb 18, 2007, 8:30 PM
oh ๐Ÿ˜•
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