Why VZW? Why CDMA?
Well, I said I'd do this, but I have been extremely busy and haven't had the chance. i still don't, so this will be abbreviated.
Many people wonder what carrier to go with, and you'll see arguements over coverage and features from one carrier to the next. Most don't even realize what CDMA, TDMA, or GSM stand for, let alone the advantages of each. So while my expertise is in the CDMA World, I'll let other experts of TDMA and GSM offer a technical discussion to their advantages.
CDMA- Code Division Multiple Access! What does that mean. In Analog, there is one voice call (one user) per channel. So in each sector, you can only fit the number of users as there are different channels. In TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access, as used by AT&T, ...
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Many people wonder what carrier to go with, and you'll see arguements over coverage and features from one carrier to the next. Most don't even realize what CDMA, TDMA, or GSM stand for, let alone the advantages of each. So while my expertise is in the CDMA World, I'll let other experts of TDMA and GSM offer a technical discussion to their advantages.
CDMA- Code Division Multiple Access! What does that mean. In Analog, there is one voice call (one user) per channel. So in each sector, you can only fit the number of users as there are different channels. In TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access, as used by AT&T, ...
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CDMA-
CDMA technology is a protocol where digital codes are assigned to pieces of a call. These pieces are compressed into a common pool of raio channels. At the receiving end, the calls are reassembled and routed over standard telephne lines. This process allows up to 20 simultaneous calls to be placed one single analog channel.
CDMA, TDMA, GSM are all using analog channels. It's just that the new 1X or CDMA2000 and GSM are not susceptible to monitoring.
CDMA technology is a protocol where digital codes are assigned to pieces of a call. These pieces are compressed into a common pool of raio channels. At the receiving end, the calls are reassembled and routed over standard telephne lines. This process allows up to 20 simultaneous calls to be placed one single analog channel.
CDMA, TDMA, GSM are all using analog channels. It's just that the new 1X or CDMA2000 and GSM are not susceptible to monitoring.
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Right now under the "2.5G"(1xRTT) there are 20 "Walsh codes" that we use currently at VZW. That is why we can currently use 18-20 users on the same channel.I think that there are 64 Walsh codes in existance. We only use 20 at this time because capacity has not demanded the use of more. Imagine the leeway VZW has needing to only use 1/3 of its available capacity to meet the demand of its ever growing customer base. Of course some of the codes are reserved for govt. agencies.
Another neat thing about CDMA is that after 2 weeks of trying, 20 of the federal governments top scientists could not crack the CDMA code. So you don't have to ever worry about someone hacking your line. 🙂
Another neat thing about CDMA is that after 2 weeks of trying, 20 of the federal governments top scientists could not crack the CDMA code. So you don't have to ever worry about someone hacking your line. 🙂
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And the reason why is that, even if you did crack the code, you would only be able to haer about one second worth of conversation, because part of the code rotates with time.
1x_RTT is 3G, IS-2000. 1X_RTT is the SO33 data calls used for National Access.
1x_RTT is 3G, IS-2000. 1X_RTT is the SO33 data calls used for National Access.
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Accually it's 1/60 of a second. The CDMA rotates bandwith 60 times each second. Got this info straight from a techincal essay writen by a employee of caulcom (I seriously got to learn how to spell that company's name). CDMA doesn't exacly use channels the way TDMA or GSM do either but everyone is used to speaking about channels when dealing with radio waves. The best analogy I can refer it to is it works alot like TCP. CDMA is a spread spectrum so it takes all the people speaking in an area and divides it across its avaliable spectrum. each call only uses enough bandwith for its usage at that paticular 1/60th of a sec. It will use anywere between 5 kHz to 80kHz and will change this ussage depending if the customer is talk or listning ...
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Vox Dei said:
Accually it's 1/60 of a second. The CDMA rotates bandwith 60 times each second. Got this info straight from a techincal essay writen by a employee of caulcom (I seriously got to learn how to spell that company's name)....
Qualcomm!
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10 MHz channel spacing, but it is the most efficient use of spectrum of all the wireless standards. More Aavailable Spectrum = higher Data Rates.
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"In fact, there are more GSM carriers adopting some derrivative of CDMA than there are CDMA carriers entertaining the thought of switching to GSM."
Nonsense.
GSM carriers are going WCDMA. MOST of the worlds carriers knew they had the option to choose between the GSM evolution and the CDMA evolution. They knew back in the mid 90's what technologies would be available and how the migration to 3G would happen. 75% chose the GSM path. The CDMA group along with Verizon have indeed taken the faster path to 3G. The GSM path is a BETTER path to 3G. 1.5 billion customers can't be wrong. Now on to the CDMA point...
I hope you aren't trying do say that w-cdma is anything like cdma? they are as different as waffles and house shoes. In fact, this "...
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Nonsense.
GSM carriers are going WCDMA. MOST of the worlds carriers knew they had the option to choose between the GSM evolution and the CDMA evolution. They knew back in the mid 90's what technologies would be available and how the migration to 3G would happen. 75% chose the GSM path. The CDMA group along with Verizon have indeed taken the faster path to 3G. The GSM path is a BETTER path to 3G. 1.5 billion customers can't be wrong. Now on to the CDMA point...
I hope you aren't trying do say that w-cdma is anything like cdma? they are as different as waffles and house shoes. In fact, this "...
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Who cares about data speed when you are in the woods of the North Carolina mountains hunting bear and your atv won't crank and the only signal you can get is analog. Then how good is GSM?
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About as good as CDMA without analog. And unfortunately for Verizon that will be the case within a few years.
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I recognize that technology can bring all sorts of data to some sort of handset, but I have always wondered if most people would be interested in a small screen with tiny buttons to access any significant data. There are inherant physical limitations.
I can see some basic email (for some people), and text messaging and of course some quality photo and video integration, calendar/pc integration but not much more than that. I would surf the web for minor information only if the costs came way down and the content was significantly improved.
It is simply not pleasurable to spend all day on a cell phone type device and it certainly is not productive for work (compared to a lap or desk top computer).
Effective business relationships st...
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I can see some basic email (for some people), and text messaging and of course some quality photo and video integration, calendar/pc integration but not much more than that. I would surf the web for minor information only if the costs came way down and the content was significantly improved.
It is simply not pleasurable to spend all day on a cell phone type device and it certainly is not productive for work (compared to a lap or desk top computer).
Effective business relationships st...
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Bluetooth technology exists for that exact reason. People don't want to drive down the highway and tap little buttons when most of those controls and displays can be integrated with the automobile using today's technology.
Sorry, but Verizon is holding back on technology that Motorola has already developed. I purchased my $46,000 Bluetooth car and $400 phone at the same time, and now I am compromising safety, while they are playing games, including false advertising.
I won't lay down so easily and have joined in the Class Action lawsuit.
Sorry, but Verizon is holding back on technology that Motorola has already developed. I purchased my $46,000 Bluetooth car and $400 phone at the same time, and now I am compromising safety, while they are playing games, including false advertising.
I won't lay down so easily and have joined in the Class Action lawsuit.
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Motorola should be coming out with a software update in November for the Bluetooth issues on the V710. What is this Class Action Lawsuit that you speak of? I have heard nothing of a law suit about the blue tooth on the phone...
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Basically true, however this does not point to what the advantage is of high volume / high data speed for the end user (other than for what I already indicated).
Good luck on the class action. Personally I do not think it will go anywhere do to the details in their advertising. It is no different than when VZW talked about free mobile to mobile "in network" when they had something very specific in mind for "in-network". The attorneys are very good at parsing words.
Good luck on the class action. Personally I do not think it will go anywhere do to the details in their advertising. It is no different than when VZW talked about free mobile to mobile "in network" when they had something very specific in mind for "in-network". The attorneys are very good at parsing words.
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you are forgetting the use of the phone as a modem for a laptop... i spend more time on my laptop than on the cell phone...
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You are correct. I did think of it but neglected to mention this important option. I do not know enough about the networks to understand the competing alternatives for this use.
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Exactly. When we talk about data rates, we're less concerned with applications on the handset, more directly talking about using the device as a tethered wireless modem.
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beefandtea said:
Who cares about data speed when you are in the woods of the North Carolina mountains hunting bear and your atv won't crank and the only signal you can get is analog. Then how good is GSM?
it's just as good as cdma... which you can't get there anyway. you get kicked over to an analog system that sucks even worse than the telegram. so your argument is "cdma is better because where cdma isn't available, we offer analog"? run that by me again? GEE... if you NEED that kind of coverage, you can get a GAIT phone which will pull in that crappy analog signal just as well. That argument is even less effective than the "You can't use your CDMA phone in Ireland". It's tru but most american customers...
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CainMarko said: if you NEED that kind of coverage, you can get a GAIT phone which will pull in that crappy analog signal just as well.
I thought you couldn't get GAIT phones any more...
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CainMarko said:
"In fact, there are more GSM carriers adopting some derrivative of CDMA than there are CDMA carriers entertaining the thought of switching to GSM."
Nonsense.
GSM carriers are going WCDMA. MOST of the worlds carriers knew they had the option to choose between the GSM evolution and the CDMA evolution. They knew back in the mid 90's what technologies would be available and how the migration to 3G would happen. 75% chose the GSM path.
The Most of those GSM carriers did NOT have a choice. In europe the goverment made their choice for them. In europe you cannot get a license for a CDMA bandwith. Yes i know it is the same bandwith as GSM but the (now EU) said nothing but GSM because they...
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well you're forgetting the fact that CDMA wasn't available in 1992. But you are correct, Europe chose GSM as its standard, but they new CDMA was around the corner and what it offered. They COULD have waited, but they saw the superiority of GSM. What you are also forgetting is that Europe consists of only 23% of the entire GSM market. So that doesn't explain why the OTHER 77% of the GSM carriers chose GSM over CDMA. You have to understand that CDMA is not an will never be the DOMINANT wireless technology. Verizon consists of 40% of the ENTIRE CDMA community WORLDWIDE. That's not a good sign as VZW is about to get in a fight with it's only REAL competition EVER. GSM added more subscribers in 2003 than CDMA has total customers.
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CainMarko said:
That's not a good sign as VZW is about to get in a fight with it's only REAL competition EVER.
Would that allegedly be the 'new' Cingular, after the AT&TW merger?
Gosh, I dunno... the AT&TW half of that company seems to have some SERIOUS and quite recent execution problems, which can be read about in some depth here:
http://www.cio.com/archive/041504/wireless.html »
I mean, wasn't ATTW effectively either treading water or LOSING customers in some recent quarters? Yikes.
Far as the Cingular half goes, well, its adding new customers at, what?... about a quarter of the rate of Verizon? Verizon's growing like wildfire.
I think the above is a large part of why analysts are predict...
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ATTW's problems are now in the past. They will now be under the direction of Cingular. and they were probobly losing customers because people didnt want to go to a company that was being bought out, not knowing where they would stand in 6 months. now that the deal is done, people will know where they stand, and you can expect to see an increase.
But i would rather have Verizon underestimate things - better for Cingular 😈
But i would rather have Verizon underestimate things - better for Cingular 😈
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jinx7676 said:
ATTW's problems are now in the past.
Mmm... dunno 'bout that. Not unless Cingular fires every single person involved in train-wrecking ATTW over the past year... which of course is impossible to do, given corporate politics and how some of the very worst decision makers are the very best at dodging responsiblity 🙄
Yeah, Cingy/ATTW will be #1 in customer base in 2005, then lose the crown again in '06. Verizon has the rep, they don't have merger uncertainties, and they're the fastest growing carrier in the nation... what is it, 5 million new customers a year?
But I tell you what... if Cingy/ATTW can hang on to #1 for all of '06 via their inevitable and oh-so-cool 'We're #1' glossy...
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I must say, and not to sound snotty, but the initial post on this thread has to be the most informative one ever seen on this forum on how a particular technology works.
While I am certain GSM has certain advantages, there has been a failure to explain in any great detail how the technology actually works. What I ask is for an intelligent rebuttal of CDGIII's original post for GSM. I challenge you, Cain, to do this. I offer the chance for you to tell all of us how GSM is superior in its technology.
Good luck! 😉
While I am certain GSM has certain advantages, there has been a failure to explain in any great detail how the technology actually works. What I ask is for an intelligent rebuttal of CDGIII's original post for GSM. I challenge you, Cain, to do this. I offer the chance for you to tell all of us how GSM is superior in its technology.
Good luck! 😉
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I was beginning to think I was the only one who understood that. I'm still waiting too.
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gee... wait til i get this report done... then I'll give you your friggin' proof. 🙄
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Well, thank you Cain. i asked you to put up some factual attributes about GSM and what makes it the better standard. I specifically said that this was in deference to any of the "70% of the world uses brand X." Simply state what is it about the GSM standard that makes it a better technology. You have failed that miserably, so much so that you used a line that I was specifically saying is irrelevant to the topic, "1.5 billion customers can't be wrong."
To argue your points, as a matter of fact, you're right. CDMA was used in ship-to-shore communications as a method of coding for secure communications. The standard stayed a military function until it was put into use by Erwin Jacobs, founder of Qualcomm, for commercial use. Channel allocati...
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To argue your points, as a matter of fact, you're right. CDMA was used in ship-to-shore communications as a method of coding for secure communications. The standard stayed a military function until it was put into use by Erwin Jacobs, founder of Qualcomm, for commercial use. Channel allocati...
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You actually made a statement that was totally wrong:
"In fact, there are more GSM carriers adopting some derrivative of CDMA than there are CDMA carriers entertaining the thought of switching to GSM."
You DID say this... it's one of the most MISLEADING statements of all time. You are trying to say that WCDMA is GSM switching over to CDMA. It is NOT. WCDMA is a GSM family technology. It will be used by almost ALL GSM carriers as their 3G upgrade.. the others are using UMTS TDD.
THAT's what i was responding to.... and in that entire statement you did not ask me to "prove" anything. I just hit on your errors. if you want me to do the "gsm" thing... cool, I will... but you can't say I "failed miserably" at something you never asked m...
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"In fact, there are more GSM carriers adopting some derrivative of CDMA than there are CDMA carriers entertaining the thought of switching to GSM."
You DID say this... it's one of the most MISLEADING statements of all time. You are trying to say that WCDMA is GSM switching over to CDMA. It is NOT. WCDMA is a GSM family technology. It will be used by almost ALL GSM carriers as their 3G upgrade.. the others are using UMTS TDD.
THAT's what i was responding to.... and in that entire statement you did not ask me to "prove" anything. I just hit on your errors. if you want me to do the "gsm" thing... cool, I will... but you can't say I "failed miserably" at something you never asked m...
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I'm sorry, but if you're not going to believe that CDMA and WCDMA have similar origins, than you can only be from the legal field, and on the side that is in a constant struggle for rights against the Jacobs family. They are both spread spectrum technologies. No they are not the same. No they don't have the same paths moving forward. And for the most part, what they have in common is the air interface alone. But that, I argue, is enough to state that it is a derrivative of CDMA. The RF air interface is the bread and butter of wireless, despite this industry moving towards VoIP.
No, I didn't ask you prove anything in that string. It was in the string that precipitated that posting. Going back a few months, before the proverbial excrement c...
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No, I didn't ask you prove anything in that string. It was in the string that precipitated that posting. Going back a few months, before the proverbial excrement c...
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Okay fellas, let's chill a bit.
CDGIII: I would not put past any providers of ANY technology to advance faster than expected. It may be expected that GSM is not going to advance to 4G for another 5 years, but competition does breed great advancements at times. Let's wait and see what happens.
Cain: With your constant rants and raves an what the military might refer to as "Psych-Ops"
dropping propaganda into enemy territory to break their wills. This is not to say that you may have some truth in what you say, but you have never presented it in a way that is truly convincing to anyone. As in other parts of this thread, you tok on the challenge I posted, and have thus set up an expectation to provide proof of GSM superiority and teach us...
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CDGIII: I would not put past any providers of ANY technology to advance faster than expected. It may be expected that GSM is not going to advance to 4G for another 5 years, but competition does breed great advancements at times. Let's wait and see what happens.
Cain: With your constant rants and raves an what the military might refer to as "Psych-Ops"
dropping propaganda into enemy territory to break their wills. This is not to say that you may have some truth in what you say, but you have never presented it in a way that is truly convincing to anyone. As in other parts of this thread, you tok on the challenge I posted, and have thus set up an expectation to provide proof of GSM superiority and teach us...
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BS?????? How is that BS??????? Cain, you're seriously losing credibility. It was simply stated unbiased facts on how CDMA works and what it's benefits are. Prove to me, PROVE TO EVERYONE HERE, where the BS is!!!!
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CDGIII said:
BS?????? How is that BS??????? Cain, you're seriously losing credibility. It was simply stated unbiased facts on how CDMA works and what it's benefits are. Prove to me, PROVE TO EVERYONE HERE, where the BS is!!!!
Agreed. An attack with no facts to back it up is essentially meaningless. The ball's in Cain's court, lets see if he does anything meaningful with it.
Btw, CDG, I enjoy your posts... lots of good information in them.
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