You guys base your 'piece of crap' judgement on anything more then your own lack of knowlage?

I see a clash of the titans happening, yall are ignorant thinking Verzion is unstoppable.

No actually I base my statements on my experience with all 3 companies. With Cingular, my fiance and her whole family had them. They couldn't wait to get rid of their terrible, unclear, and totally unreliable network. And personally I had At&t until I got so fed up with my phone never working that I threw it out my car window on my way to the Verizon store. And that's not even citing the customer service problems with both, especially At&t (fraudulent billing issues, renewing my without my knowledge, which eventually led to my being able to break my contract without penalty, but that was 2 months after they sent me a bill for $2500 which of course is humanly impossible for 1 person to rack up.) I have friends who used to work for both ...
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At this time it would appear that VZW, Alltel, Sprint and others have a favorable position.
The 3g upgrade path for CDMA carriers didn't lose backward compatibility like the GSM/WCDMA upgrade does. This means that these carriers could upgrade their customers into 3g at their convenience. It is not so with ATTWS and Cingular. They are held hostage to customers who are happy with their TDMA phones. To force change them might be to lose them. Also keep in mind that ATTWS will be running 3 separate networks in the WCDMA markets. With bandwidth at a premium they will struggle to match CDMA carriers in data features without losing capacity. This by itself should create a massive migration to CDMA carriers.
This does not mean that the CDMA carri...
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It is not a judgment based on lack of knowledge, it is based on what most of the industry analysts are saying. The merger will only hurt Cingular short term because they overpaid for a company that has very poor service and has a huge amount of debt. It makes me wonder if Vodafone even wanted to buy ATTW or if they just wanted to make sure that Cingular paid top dollar for them.

Before the buy out VZW was porting in 15 ATTW customers for every 1 VZW customer that was porting out to ATTW. That is huge. I have to imagine that this number will grow as we approach summer.

Is VZW unstoppable?? The answer is NO. But it will be at least a year if not two years before Cingular will be able to emerge as a formidable opponent. By the ...
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oh and just to let u know moobak. New York Times even says it's a win for VZW. I'd also like to say if Cingular had 41bil to flush, I'd have rather seen them spend it on their sucky gsm network. Not a good move, too bad for their customers. Just to let u all know, Verizon Wireless is spending ANOTHER $5 Billion this year on it's network... find me another cell company that invests so much into their network. Find me another cell phone company that ranks on top with consumer reports and JD Power. If you look you'll only find that vzw is #1 in everything. It's not just what we think, it's what we KNOW and we don't have to sit here and prove it, cuz it ALREADY has been.

Before you get TOO ****y, remember that Cingular has the #1 GSM network in the country. And if VZW is #1 in everything, why don't they have a truly NATIONWIDE rate plan where EVERYTHING works EVERYWHERE? Why does Cingular lead the industry in wireless data carried? Why is it that VZW is behind Cingular 3-1 in new tower development in the Northeast? Just some things to think about.

Back this up with references, please. Who'd you get this info from...your Aunt Mary?

Number 1 GSM network - telephia
most US wireless data carried - WirelessWeek
tower development data - based on New England development stated by both companies

phonepimp3376 said:
Number 1 GSM network - telephia
most US wireless data carried - WirelessWeek
tower development data - based on New England development stated by both companies

Thank you, Mr. Pimp.

I am a customer service rep for cingular. I havbe got to say I am sick and tired of people saying cingular customer service suicks it is not perfect but it does not suck. I go above and veyond the call of duty for our customer every single day. The truth is even though I do go as far as I can to help a customer some customer's need to get educated and empower themselves with information as a consumer. Realize that I will help you as a customer service rep but it is up to you to educate yourself about wireless industry and the technology. I am just sick and tired of people acting like Veirzon is perfect they are not.

also take into account any survery can be made to look the way someone wants it too. if any of those survey's had been done in my part of the country vzw would be rated the worst in just about everything, from care to coverage and everything else in between. and their churn rate has to been higer then what they say becuase everyone i know who has/had vzw is either leaving or already left.

I am just sick and tired of stupid people verizon worshippers. The CDMA is not as good as GSM period unless you are in a bad GSM area. In independent testing GSM out performed CDMA in call quality. My friend who works for Verizon can not even use his Verizon phone indoors calls always drops inside of large buildings and stores. This is in the Chicago area best cell phone area in the country everyone has decent coverage here. Verizon has a lot of problems to mainly call quality. I have been a verizon customer and then went GSM and got much better service.

CDMA works a lot better GSM. It is a better network and Verizon is definitely better than everyone else. The proof is in Consumer Reports and JD Power and Associates. They also put the most money in thier network to keep it the best.



Screwball.

What I mean is in the United Staes CDMA is more commonly used than GSM. But CDMA does not work better if you are in a bad GSM area your service is going to be bad.. Cingular invested more money in GSM overlay than Verizon did on CDMA improvements. Cingular has sturglled in the past in customer service but that has changed recently do to improvements within the company. SBC cleaned house at cingular after a bad 2002

if cingular is investing so much into their company, and are out doing verizon 3-1 in building towers, how come cingular has never built ONE SINGLE TOWER OF THEIR OWN IN NY? i live on Long Island NY and tried cingular, for all of the 36 hours, before i was disgusted with their service. i couldn't get a single bar of service INSIDE ANYWHERE! i went out to 5 different places the first and only night, had good service outside and got nothing when i walked inside anywhere with their service! and when i say "their" i am using the term very loosely, considering they piggy-back T-Mobile towers in NY and haven't built a single tower of their own in NY TO DATE! on top of that, if a T-Mobile customer needs a spot on a tower and a cingular customer is ...
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Being a Verizon user in the Chicago area I can say that their service works very well in Chicago. I work downtown and also travel to various suburbs that surround Chicago and it works very well. I am very satisified and have no issued with the service area of Chicago.

If anyone does it would be interesting to know what issues there are.

Screwball

I'm in Southern California and Verizon, for the most part works very well. The only problem I have with them, is when I go to activate a phone for a customer, or just help them with customer care, sometimes I get the most uncooperative and rude reps, not all the time, but often enough to irritate me. I don't particularly like the new in network either. As far as service, I have no complaints.

Well, unless your master agent is Celluphone usually we have no issues with indirect agents. We feel for Radio Shack reps, having to listen to that dayum door ringer all day...

MW2 said:
also take into account any survery can be made to look the way someone wants it too. if any of those survey's had been done in my part of the country vzw would be rated the worst in just about everything, from care to coverage and everything else in between. and their churn rate has to been higer then what they say becuase everyone i know who has/had vzw is either leaving or already left.

Where are you getting this info from? The 2 people you know that don't get reception with Verizon because they don't live close enough to a tower? Pfft. How many times to I have to repeat myself? You're boring us with your non-facts and just general stupidity.

it's a lot more then 2 (were talking people i know over an entire state). but keep up the funny cdma worshipping, you should take it out on the road and hit comedy stores, good times.

show us valid statistics on Cingular if you think they are SO much better....all i see from you is accusations that verizon just sucks


untill then your arguments are not valid


show us facts

Here is my take on things:

First - GSM is known to have superior sound to CDMA.

Second - To accurately compare VZW and Cingular, you must compare products that take both's analog roam capabilities into account. This would mean comparing a VZW national product with analog to Cingular's GAIT Nation product. Or you would have to evaluate both companies on the strength of their digital service exclusively. It is widely known that Cingular and VZW are almost identical in network coverage, although it is distributed in different areas in some cases.

Third - You would have to compare service as a whole, not just telephony. Compare all the elements that make up the average wireless user today. Mobile to mobile, internet, data, etc. and whe...
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very valid points....thank you


I agree with almost every word

while i do agree with most of your points, you can not STATE that GSM is known to have superior sound to CDMA when in some areas, mine for example, that's NOT the case. ATT GSM is/was pure garbage, at least where i live in NY it is, period! so you're saying that ATT GSM is better than Verizon CDMA? i don't know one single person in this entire state that would agree with that statement! Cingular's (and when i say Cingular, i really mean T-Mobile because Cingular has yet to build a single tower of their own in NY and piggy-backs T-Mobile towers) GSM signal, while it may sound better than ATT's GSM signal, is weak here and can't penetrate indoors. on top of that, everyone seems to forget about ATT's TDMA, which IMHO is the second best service ...
(continues)

ahh think again... Cingular DOES NOT have a TRUE NATION wide plan! Ever seen their coverage map??? You CAN'T roam on their so called nationwide plan because if you're somewhere and there's no GSM service then your phone isn't going to work. HELLO ever read the FINE PRINT... Cingular is playing catch up.. so if your story is true... and i boubt it is.. then that's all they're doing. No other wireless company spends more money on their network than Verizon... I'm sorry dude, but all the carriers want to be like Verizon Wireless.. there's just no way it could happen... SBC isn't liked, ATTWS is losing more customers than they're gaining... Cingular bought a sinking ship.. like I said over and over again.. it's the beginning of the...
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Ahhh, barryefau, but it appears you compare apples to oranges. To get a true vision of Cingular's network INCLUDING analog, check out any GAIT nation plan brochure. Not so long ago, all carriers (with the exception of TMo, who started their US network as GSM) were analog. Then came the split - CDMA or TDMA, and so on. And as for true nationwide coverage, even the almighty Verizon does not cover ALL the land area of the US. Cingular's Nation plan is more complete due to the fact that all of its features work EVERYWHERE in their coverage area, while VZW's product does not offer the same functionality. For example, there is a roaming area map, and another map for where you can use M2M. These are not the same as the NATIONAL coverage map. Cingul...
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Dude,
Why are you arguing so stridently for Cingular on a VZW forum? C'mon. And what does the disparity between Sprint and Verizon have anything to do w/ CDMA being better or not than GSM? It's a technically superior technology. And yes, mabye Cingular may be bigger when the ATTWS deal goes through, but mabye not. You can't just add the 2 subscriber bases together and figure they'll all just come along...the combined company will lose a lot (as evidenced by ATTWS loss of subscribers). And, Cingular has TDMA and GSM so coverage is misleading unless you have one of like 2 GAIT phones, which suck in features compared to the rest of their phones. And I'm willing to bet Verizon's in-network coverage beats that of Cingular's for M2M. Anyway, unle...
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First off - I have not fallen into the trap of comparing subscriber bases. Verizon can claim all they want in that respect. As for misleading, Verizon doesn't distinguish between analog and digital in their advertising that I have ever seen, so we're even there.

And why do you people insist on calling the Cingular-ATTWS deal a merger? Cingular BOUGHT THEM OUT, folks, they are not becoming a merged unit. Cingular bought their network, spectrum, vendors, heck, if you want to be cruel, their employees!

As for your final comment, the Titanic was the biggest and most expensive too.

also vzw's wrong spouting that attws is losing more then gaining in customer's is played out. attws lost some of it's customer's when it was switching to a new customer service system for gsm and during the begining of lnp and that was it. so vzw reps NEED TO GET THEIR FACTS STRAIGHT before spouting more crap. i assist getting customers to the porting group who ported from vzw then all the other carriers combined (and this is not custs from my area either). so i'd love to see the new #'s from customer's porting out and in from the carriers.

and yes vzw needs to spends billions on their network becuase they are losing customer's left and right in my area due to a very p!ss poor network here. all the attws, cing, t-mo, even nextel seemed to...
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You're boring all of us. Every carrier's coverage and quality of service varies by LOCATION. Do you understand this? Yeesh.

yes i do but apparantly vzw reps don't. i'm getting tired of seeing how perfect vzw over the entire u.s.

and you completely missed the main point of the post that you guys need to get off of the whole sinking ship/losing more customer then gaining when that is now and out right lie.

just trying to get the facts straight.

Here's the facts:

From thestreet.com:

Smith Barney's Mike Rollins is the latest analyst to get a sinking feeling about AT&T Wireless. In a report Tuesday, Rollins says the company could see its total subscriber count fall in the first quarter. In other words, for the first time in company history, AT&T Wireless could lose more customers than it gains in a quarter.

But Wall Street analysts say the bleeding is far from over at AT&T Wireless. In fact, some expect the Redmond, Wash., company to suffer an almost unheard-of setback when it reports earnings on April 28. These skeptics estimate that AT&T Wireless will lose between 50,000 and 200,000 customers in its first quarter ended last month.

4/12/2004, 7:10 AM ET

blaatand said:
Here's the facts:

From thestreet.com:

Smith Barney's Mike Rollins is the latest analyst to get a sinking feeling about AT&T Wireless. In a report Tuesday, Rollins says the company could see its total subscriber count fall in the first quarter. In other words, for the first time in company history, AT&T Wireless could lose more customers than it gains in a quarter.

But Wall Street analysts say the bleeding is far from over at AT&T Wireless. In fact, some expect the Redmond, Wash., company to suffer an almost unheard-of setback when it reports earnings on April 28. These skeptics estimate that AT&T Wireless will lose between 50,000 and 200,000 customers in its first quarter ended last month.

4/12/

...
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wohoo!
i've always taking anything said from analysts with a grain of salt. they're well known to spout out more bs then a sales rep and tend to be far from the truth.

as for the facts, i help work in the largest sales channel for attws and our churn rate is very low right now and our sales are making plenty of new customers for attws. so unless the other sales channels (indirect dealers, et al) are really screwing up (and themselves) bigtime then this suppose churn high rate these 'expert analysts' are a farce.

Yeahhhhhhhhhhh...right, the PROFESSIONAL ANALYSTS are wrong and YOUR facts are dead on. I'm corrected now. You win. LOL.

oh, but they WERE wrong.

ATTWs actually lost *210,000* subscribers first quarter.

That's *more* than the analysts predicted 🙂

BBKahuna said:
oh, but they WERE wrong.

ATTWs actually lost *210,000* subscribers first quarter.

That's *more* than the analysts predicted 🙂

Wow...that's a lot of subscribers. Hey, MW2!!?? You see this?

Every single friggin' company has lost more customers then they have gained. EVERY company. Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, AWS, Cingular, etc etc. It happens, the company recoils, downsizes some things, beefs up its offerings, and continues on. AWS has 21 MILLION subscribers, 200,000 more were lost then added, crap happens.

muchdrama, I had respect for you before this point, but now I just feel you're here to insult everyone and twist the knife a bit deeper into a topic that has been beaten into the dirt until its just a friggin' dumb flame.

Get your heads out of your asses, every company has their good traits, and bad traits. Period, end of story.

While you are correct it seems that Verizon looses the least amount of customers out of the carriers. While every company has their good points and bad ones Verizon has more good points than bad points. I have had Verizon for over 2 years and they have the best service, coverage area and by far the best customer service of anyone else.

Screwball

moobak said:
Every single friggin' company has lost more customers then they have gained. EVERY company. Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, AWS, Cingular, etc etc. It happens, the company recoils, downsizes some things, beefs up its offerings, and continues on. AWS has 21 MILLION subscribers, 200,000 more were lost then added, crap happens.

muchdrama, I had respect for you before this point, but now I just feel you're here to insult everyone and twist the knife a bit deeper into a topic that has been beaten into the dirt until its just a friggin' dumb flame.

Get your heads out of your asses, every company has their good traits, and bad traits. Period, end of story.

You'll notice that I apologized for being...
(continues)

back to the analysts, again if you've ever followed analysts over any decent period of time you'd know the crap they say are generally wrong more then right.

back to the sales channel i work in, again the churn rate in our channel is very low, especially compaired to the level it was in q4 of last year. so any high turnover for attws must be coming from indirects and other 3rd parties of which i can't verify since i don't have any info on them. so even if the analyst was right the turnover rate is not coming from attws directly.

btw, your acting like a d!ckhe@d with a major hardon for attws and a great example of the what i dislike about vzw.

I completely agree with the person who said every wireless company is different. Some work better in area than others. such as Missouri, Cingular is awesome, cause we cover almost the WHOLE state with very few loopholes. Versus, any other carrier in Missouri we smoke them, Terribly. Cingular offers more minutes for your money, coverage, rollover and our GPRS(wireless internet). For the Verizon rep who don't do the homework, Check out any of our new rate plans. Verizon doesn't even compare. Cingular did that on purpose! WE want to be the largest in the USA. Cingular might be in second right now but, we are on a mission to kick verizon check mark out of first. And, that is how WE FIT YOU BEST!

Mr. Cingular expert--

Can you tell me how the Cingular service is in the Chicago area? I'm thinking of switching to the GSM Nation plan with Cingular (currently with Verizion). I use my cell phone mostly in Chicago and suburbs, but do need it when I travel from time to time. Also, what Cingular phone would you recommend for best reception and call clarity.

Thanks for any info.

I personally have never been to Chicago. But, it is including in all of our (St. Louis Market)homefoot print plans so- I'm assuming pretty good GSM reception. You didn't list what type of phone so Samsung x427 is a great phone in this area they run you about $69.99 to $49.99. (In st. Louis this has a $50 mir.) The samsung has a color screen, poly-ringtone(like the tones on a keyboard), alarm, calculator, organizer, battery life is about 3-4 days. The Motorola V400 is a camera phone but, a Very good phone this phone is a higher end model it runs about $200 to $150ish. This phone has a speakphone(use like a reg. speaker on a reg. phone), color screen, alarm, organizer, the camera feature (which this phone has the ability to change zoom, brig...
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Thanks for all the info, MS. Cingular Expert.

Sorry for the "Mr".

But the challenge for Cingular will come when Verizon implements EVDO and Sprint implements EVDV. Verizon has already spent the money to be 3G Cingular still will need to rebuild their network. As far as GPRS is concerned it is life and death at 20-40kbps not even close. EDGE is the next step which Cingular has not announced plans to implement. Low prices are not the only factor consumers use, if they were then Tmobile would be the largest carrier in the nation. Cingular has also not announced any plans for a timetable to get to 3G. Very soon the limitations of GSM will strangle Cingular.
By the way, according to mountainwireless.com Cingular is the single most complained about utility in California, this includes of course Power, water, g...
(continues)

According to interior info, EDGE will be nationwide with Cingular by the end of the summer, UMTS by the end of 2005. Limitations of GSM? Really? What limitations are you speaking of. I really don't think that 80% of the word is gonna switch to CDMA. Yes I work for Cingular, this is how I know these specs. CDMA is great, but GSM is just as good and you can do just as much across the network.

Bigbmc26 said:
According to interior info, EDGE will be nationwide with Cingular by the end of the summer, UMTS by the end of 2005. Limitations of GSM? Really? What limitations are you speaking of. I really don't think that 80% of the word is gonna switch to CDMA. Yes I work for Cingular, this is how I know these specs. CDMA is great, but GSM is just as good and you can do just as much across the network.

Let us give you some interior info. CDMA has better voice quality than GSM? Check. Better voice capacity? Check. Better data services? Hell yeah, Check (Try telling us EDGE or UMTS will come close to the quality experience of EVDV or DVDO and you'll get alot of amused looks). And the reason 80% of the world...
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Better voice quality? I think you need to check my friend. I have researched all of the issues you wanted me to CHECK and the fact of the matter is, voice quality is a matter of opinion. There have been studies that said that CDMA has better and there have been studies the say that GSM is better. Of course I'm gonna stick with the GSM studies, because I like GSM. I like the fact that I can change phones weekly and keep the same services. Better data services? Umm, i guess you haven't done your homework. 4 of the 5 top financial companies in the US use GSM data services, not CDMA, now you go check that. If CDMA is so great, then why isn't the rest of the word moving to it now, and leaving GSM? Because GSM is great and it's not going anywhere...
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Bigbmc26 said:
Better voice quality? I think you need to check my friend. I have researched all of the issues you wanted me to CHECK and the fact of the matter is, voice quality is a matter of opinion. There have been studies that said that CDMA has better and there have been studies the say that GSM is better. Of course I'm gonna stick with the GSM studies, because I like GSM.

It's too dependent on the phone and network settings to really make a good decision. In a perfect world, CDMA providers could waste tons of bandwidth and give you crystal-clear CD-quality voice.

Of course, you have ruined your logic by admitting that you only believe what you want to believe.

Bigbmc26 said:<

...
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wirehead said:

Bigbmc26 said:
Better voice quality? I think you need to check my friend. I have researched all of the issues you wanted me to CHECK and the fact of the matter is, voice quality is a matter of opinion. There have been studies that said that CDMA has better and there have been studies the say that GSM is better. Of course I'm gonna stick with the GSM studies, because I like GSM.

It's too dependent on the phone and network settings to really make a good decision. In a perfect world, CDMA providers could waste tons of bandwidth and give you crystal-clear CD-quality voice.

Of course, you have ruined your logic by admitting that you only believe what you want to believe

...
(continues)

I don't know what you people are talking about. But if you check www.cdg.org you will find out that almost half of the world uses CDMA and alot of countries are ready to deploy 1x EV-DO. So that shows that CDMA is a much better technology than GSM and the only reason that ATTWS switched to GSM and not CDMA b/c it was cheaper for them to do so. And yes they did have the option of switching to CDMA but they chose the cheaper way GSM.

I can only reply to your post with the following:

1) Where are the signal to noise specs that support your claim about the superiority of GSM sound quality. I can tell when someone uses a GSM or TDMA phone to call me by the buzzing sound I get to listen to.

2) If GSM is so incredible why is it not a 3G standard? And why is the worldwide wireless industry moving to different forms of CDMA?

3) Do you feel GSM is superior only because the Europeans adopted it, or that your employer adopted it, or do you have data that has been hidden by the GSM carriers about the capabilities of GSM. All the data the rest of us have states that GSM has less capacity than even CDMA IS-95. Now that CDMA 2000 has been deployed successfully nationwide the ...
(continues)

SPCSVZWJeff said:
I can only reply to your post with the following:

1) Where are the signal to noise specs that support your claim about the superiority of GSM sound quality. I can tell when someone uses a GSM or TDMA phone to call me by the buzzing sound I get to listen to.

2) If GSM is so incredible why is it not a 3G standard? And why is the worldwide wireless industry moving to different forms of CDMA?

3) Do you feel GSM is superior only because the Europeans adopted it, or that your employer adopted it, or do you have data that has been hidden by the GSM carriers about the capabilities of GSM. All the data the rest of us have states that GSM has less capacity than even CDMA IS-95. Now that CDMA 2000 has been

...
(continues)

SPCSVZWJeff said:
I can only reply to your post with the following:

1) Where are the signal to noise specs that support your claim about the superiority of GSM sound quality. I can tell when someone uses a GSM or TDMA phone to call me by the buzzing sound I get to listen to.

2) If GSM is so incredible why is it not a 3G standard? And why is the worldwide wireless industry moving to different forms of CDMA?

3) Do you feel GSM is superior only because the Europeans adopted it, or that your employer adopted it, or do you have data that has been hidden by the GSM carriers about the capabilities of GSM. All the data the rest of us have states that GSM has less capacity than even CDMA IS-95. Now that CDMA 2000 has been

...
(continues)

Hell yeah, Check (Try telling us EDGE or UMTS will come close to the quality experience of EVDV or DVDO and you'll get alot of amused looks... So...when you guys get around to putting up EDGE (which is already inferior to EVDO) we'll be basking in the glory of TRUE 3g data speeds.


Well said muchdrama!

Not to be a know-it-all, but EDGE is a hack on GSM that doesn't do too much to add flexibility to the network, other than high-speed data. Of course, given that all it takes is either a software upgrade or a few cards swapped out here and there, it's probably not hard to roll out.

Counter to what you are saying, 100% of the world is going to switch to CDMA sooner or later. The on-air transmission format of UMTS is the same as CDMA, with a few paramaters tweaked here and there. The GSM stack (everything other than the way the radio works) has some really nifty features like SIM cards, so they are keeping that in UMTS.

The thing is, in an urban market, you want two things. You want CDMA encoding, because it handles multipath and soft...
(continues)

wirehead said:
Not to be a know-it-all, but EDGE is a hack on GSM that doesn't do too much to add flexibility to the network, other than high-speed data. Of course, given that all it takes is either a software upgrade or a few cards swapped out here and there, it's probably not hard to roll out.

Counter to what you are saying, 100% of the world is going to switch to CDMA sooner or later. The on-air transmission format of UMTS is the same as CDMA, with a few paramaters tweaked here and there. The GSM stack (everything other than the way the radio works) has some really nifty features like SIM cards, so they are keeping that in UMTS.

The thing is, in an urban market, you want two things. You want CDMA encoding, be

...
(continues)

muchdrama said:
THAT...was a kick ass post. I'm going to refer everyone who mentions "dude, GSM SO kicks CDMA's ass". Thank you.

Why thank you.

And, I should note, that I'm not in the Wireless biz, I just like understanding how things work. ;)

You might also consider reading this fun weblog article from one of the dudes who helped make CDMA:

http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/10/GSM3G.shtml »

which goes into a much more..... venemous... description of some of the issues. ;)

wirehead said:

muchdrama said:
THAT...was a kick ass post. I'm going to refer everyone who mentions "dude, GSM SO kicks CDMA's ass". Thank you.

Why thank you.

And, I should note, that I'm not in the Wireless biz, I just like understanding how things work. ;)

You might also consider reading this fun weblog article from one of the dudes who helped make CDMA:

http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/10/GSM3G.shtml »

which goes into a much more..... venemous... description of some of the issues. ;)

Aye aye, Cap'n. I LOVE stuff like this...bring it on!

wirehead said:

muchdrama said:
THAT...was a kick ass post. I'm going to refer everyone who mentions "dude, GSM SO kicks CDMA's ass". Thank you.

Why thank you.

And, I should note, that I'm not in the Wireless biz, I just like understanding how things work. ;)

You might also consider reading this fun weblog article from one of the dudes who helped make CDMA:

http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/10/GSM3G.shtml »

which goes into a much more..... venemous... description of some of the issues. ;)

You may want to check out the above link...it refutes every argument you've made with style and grace. Nyah!

You all may want to check out the home page!!!

GSM, CDMA Groups Unite for Interoperable MMS Standard

skaras said:
You all may want to check out the home page!!!

GSM, CDMA Groups Unite for Interoperable MMS Standard

Yay! Finally we can send stupid pictures to each other.

GSM is a close equivalent to IS-95 CDMA technology. No carrier that I know of still uses IS-95. EDGE with its 116kbps service is much slower than even EVDO.
The Europeans stayed with their GSM instead of switching immediately to CDMA because they had customers that they didn't want to orphan along the way. It would have been a mess for them. The vast majority of U.S. carriers went CDMA because it is how they can keep their customers on analog/TDMA networks without "orphaning" them and upgrading them as they could. ATTWS and Cingular went GSM to be different and to buy time, not because it is a better network. If it is then why are they so eager to get to UMTS which is a version of CDMA? After WCDMA is implemented by Cingular and ATTWS they ...
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MW2 said:
yes i do but apparantly vzw reps don't. i'm getting tired of seeing how perfect vzw over the entire u.s.

and you completely missed the main point of the post that you guys need to get off of the whole sinking ship/losing more customer then gaining when that is now and out right lie.

just trying to get the facts straight.

I hate to tell you this, but Verizon is porting a hell of a lot more ATTWS customers than ATTWS is porting Verizon customers. And I'm talking about OVERALL. Not in YOUR area. Remember the little talk we had before? How cell phone coverage and quality of service is relative to location? You DO understand the word location, right? Riiiiiiiiight.

and you missed the point where i said the people i deal with porting from vzw ARE NOT from my area.

If you expect to continue to grow than I suggest you treat your customers better. Case in point, my best friend lives in Northern Virginia and called recently to see if Cingular was willing to upgrade him and his second line. Not only was he told we will do nothing for you but we are going to charge you to upgrade. He has been a loyal customer for right around 6 years and spends a lot of money. Right now he is looking to switch to VZW because of the poor treatment he received.

Skins56 said:
If you expect to continue to grow than I suggest you treat your customers better. Case in point, my best friend lives in Northern Virginia and called recently to see if Cingular was willing to upgrade him and his second line. Not only was he told we will do nothing for you but we are going to charge you to upgrade. He has been a loyal customer for right around 6 years and spends a lot of money. Right now he is looking to switch to VZW because of the poor treatment he received.

Maybe he shouldn't automatically conclude that he deserves something?

It is not that he concludes he deserves something, But I think there needs to be a willingness to work something to at least attempt to keep a customer. I agree too many people feel entitled to something, but the bottom line is that in the near future what you do to keep a customer will make or break your company.

Skins56 said:
It is not that he concludes he deserves something, But I think there needs to be a willingness to work something to at least attempt to keep a customer. I agree too many people feel entitled to something, but the bottom line is that in the near future what you do to keep a customer will make or break your company.

I'm not sure if one customer will make or break anyone...especially with the customer bases Cingular, ATTWS and Verizon now enjoy. For whatever reason, Cingular decided it wasn't in their best interests to give your friend a break on his friend. That's their policy. The beauty of it is...he can now take his number anywhere he wants.

muchdrama said:

Skins56 said:
It is not that he concludes he deserves something, But I think there needs to be a willingness to work something to at least attempt to keep a customer. I agree too many people feel entitled to something, but the bottom line is that in the near future what you do to keep a customer will make or break your company.

I'm not sure if one customer will make or break anyone...especially with the customer bases Cingular, ATTWS and Verizon now enjoy. For whatever reason, Cingular decided it wasn't in their best interests to give your friend a break on his PHONE. That's their policy. The beauty of it is...he can now take his number anywhere he wants.

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There is a lot of information that this customer is not saying... how long has he had his existing equipment? Has he had billing issues? How long is his contract? All of this comes into play when considering a customer for upgrade. In the interest of fairness across the board, we have certain protocols that we have to adhere to. If this customer does not meet those criteria, we cannot process the upgrade.

Skins56 said:
If you expect to continue to grow than I suggest you treat your customers better. Case in point, my best friend lives in Northern Virginia and called recently to see if Cingular was willing to upgrade him and his second line. Not only was he told we will do nothing for you but we are going to charge you to upgrade. He has been a loyal customer for right around 6 years and spends a lot of money. Right now he is looking to switch to VZW because of the poor treatment he received.

I workf or cingular wireless customer service I have got to say I am sicka nd tired of customers wanmting the rules changed just for them. There are upgrade policies in place at every weireless carrier so if he is le...
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You are correct in that the plan is to have the merger done by the end of this year. There have been news reports (saw an article in Seattle Times a while back) that if things don't go so smoothly in that time, it could be pushed out to June. No real biggie, just more 'matter-o'-fact" than anything else.

Ok, sorry, I guess the Kool-Aid wore off.

1) VW still does have $1000 deposits, and I was just speaking to someone this morning who WENT to Verizon and their Dep. came back $1000, paid a little more per month and got a phone w/ Sprint for a $125 dep.

And believe it or not, Not every company wants to be Verizon, some enjoy doing what they do, and catering to a different segment (And Sprint doesn't make you drink the Kool-Aid when they hire you)

sadly you're preaching to the choir, most of us know that (though some don't care). anyone who's been in the this biz for even a little while should know by now how service varies from area to area and even from carrier to carrier.

this entire thread is getting more retarded by the post. : (

Don't put VzW up on a pedestal too much. Even they are susceptible to having some (albeit considerably less than others) dropped calls.