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AT&T Had Apple Tweak iPhone to Reduce Network Strain

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I'd like to see how Verizon handles the iPhone

justfinethanku

Mar 31, 2010, 9:07 AM
Sure they have the "largest 3G network" but I wonder if they have the backhaul capacity that the smaller and faster AT&T network has in order to handle a phone like the iPhone?

Maybe we will see, several foreign carriers have had pretty serious issues with network strain when they got the iPhone, lets see if Verizon can back up it's promise of being ready.

I hope they are. The more iPhones out there, the better.

I guess we will find out come fall!

(PS, I still loath Verizon. LOATH)
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JeffdaBeat

Mar 31, 2010, 9:15 AM
I honestly think Verizon will do fine. I think it's dumb to hate an entire company though...

The reason Verizon will do fine is because they won't have every single iPhone user on their network. A good number of them will stay with AT&T. The good thing about another carrier getting the iPhone is that there won't be strains on any one network. It will be distributed a bit better.

But the iPhone on AT&T might be good thing once it has competition. Lower prices are sure to come to undercut a mass exodus to Verizon. Also, fewer restrictions because again, AT&T has to give people a reason to stay. Even though AT&T's network is stronger and faster than the competition, perception is different and that's what they have to fight.

One thin...
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justfinethanku

Mar 31, 2010, 9:22 AM
I feel pretty good about T-Mobile being able to handle the iPhone with its younger and more advanced network, albeit smaller network.

I may be a little biased, a LOT biased because I sell T-Mobile, but who knows.

What do you think?
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raulr

Mar 31, 2010, 9:45 AM
I seriously doubt Apple will release it for all carriers. One of the biggest holdups to releasing a Verizon version IMHO was the fact that they would have to create a different assembly line/BOM for just one additional carrier. The rumors actually point to Apple using a completely different manufacturing partner to build the CDMA version.

I think the demand for a Verizon iPhone just got too high and it would be leaving way too much money on the table. Verizon can probably sell 5 million a year. I guess Sprint can piggyback off of the Verizon assembly line, just using different software.

So the problem with a T-Mobile would be an additional production line due to their unique 3G bands. T-Mobile is just too small a player to justi...
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terryjohnson16

Mar 31, 2010, 10:04 AM
Their is no excuse for Apple not to make a T-Mobile-supported iPhone. AWS 1700 has been out for going on 3 years now, so the tech is not new.

Apple just doesn't want to make a T-Mobile supported iPhone, just yet, while they have AT&T in bed with them. Especially after this iPad no contract data deal.

If MetroPCS can get these CDMA-phone OEMs to make dual band AWS/PCS devices to work on their dual-band network, then T-Mobile can do the same for their GSM/EDGE/HSPA+ network. No excuses.
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JeffdaBeat

Mar 31, 2010, 10:11 AM
It's more about the chipset than the software...although we've seen software effect connections.
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jhr2112

Mar 31, 2010, 9:57 AM
Verizon should handle the iphone well, they are a much stronger network than at&t or T-Mobile. at&t is so weak they have to send network cows to most major events nationwide to prevent outages.Example: South by Southwest in Austin. Last year during the music and film festival at&t was embarrassed by several major crashes, some city wide. This year they sent in 3 network cows to boost capacity.
T-Mobile's 3G during the festival rarely worked while Verizon and Sprint had no issues.
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JeffdaBeat

Mar 31, 2010, 10:17 AM
I'm sorry, but you just aren't correct on this one. A good 50% of smartphone users in the nation are on AT&T. Verizon only owns 23% of the smartphone market. It's easy to say AT&T is weaker than Verizon when Verizon's workload isn't nearly that of AT&T. And look at the most recent test that PCWorld did on each network. AT&T beat all of them in a vast majority of the tests. You guys have to get off this kick of slamming AT&T when it isn't true.

What folks say about Verizon being a stronger network can only be proven with more Smartphone users, but I bet you had the iPhone released on Verizon, we'd have the same complaining.
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 10:34 AM
they don't need an iphone, they just need more users to adopt smartphones on their network.

I'll put my data consumption on my android phone against any iphone user. The iphone isn't some mystical device that uses data more than another phone using the same content (unless it is poorly designed)

while you can't accuratly predict how a network will react, at the very least verizon's increased data consumption will have SIGNIFICANTLY less impact on their phonecall quality/dropped call rate.
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flagrantmisuse

Mar 31, 2010, 3:57 PM
are you saying that because vzw doesnt do simultaneous voice and data?
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 4:16 PM
yes. they use different technology for voice and data, which means that heavy data usage won't overload a tower like HSPA does.
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SPCSVZWJeff

Mar 31, 2010, 7:00 PM
It's hard to say because Verizon is using EVDO Rev A which only has a dedicated 1.2 mhz wide channel for data. HSPA uses a 5mhz wide channel so depending on what quality limits AT&T places on the network HSPA is better suited for a data intensive device like the iPhone. Put that much data throughput on a Rev A network and it will definitely effect user quality.
Verizon as less bandwidth than AT&T to start with, only 30mhz in most markets (excluding AWS properties which are not built out at this time) While AT&T has 70-90 mhz in most markets.
Verizon's network is really untested because of the lack of smartphone users. Put 30 million iPhone users on the network and we will see what happens.
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 7:04 PM
but all that will not destroy the usability of voice with heavy data.

And yes, verizon has less 3g spectrum than ATT, but their devices are also optimized differently. This is why at larger events, they don't have to deploy as many (if any) COWS. Yes, data is a factor here too, but just because Verizon doesn't have the iphone doesn't mean they don't have data heavy devices.

and remember that Verizon's customers are very spread out. Most rural/mostly rural areas are predominantly verizon so their heavy users aren't concentrated quite as much as ATT's.
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SPCSVZWJeff

Mar 31, 2010, 9:11 PM
Very true, but bandwidth could be an issue. The iPhone is a bandwidth hog. Apple has done very little to maximize efficiencies. After all they look at it as the network provider's responsibility to handle their device's data needs.
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jhr2112

Mar 31, 2010, 11:09 AM
No, you are wrong. I sell all major carriers in Austin, Texas and I have demo phones for all accounts. att might be the biggest carrier in terms of coverage of where they work, like small podunk towns, but in major metro areas like New York, Austin, Houston and Denver they drop more data and calls than Sprint and Verizon. att failed to address network issues when they started, waiting until they had major problems. Look at the cnet coverage tool showing network stability in the large markets, it is not att. My at&t phone drops calls daily when in big cities, not so much in rural areas.at&t is my biggest seller, but I also get the most returns and port-outs on them..Sprint is my least returned carrier here because of their high signal level a...
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Calamity D

Mar 31, 2010, 10:27 AM
Yes veizon should be able to handle the iPhone, especially with a super fast edge network where you're only able to run data or voice so it's kinda controlled because you cant do both
" hold on, let me call you back so I can check something "
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JeffdaBeat

Mar 31, 2010, 10:29 AM
Well...Verizon's slower "3G" network isn't called EDGE...but I think we get the point.
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 10:53 AM
It's also a heck of a lot faster than edge. Average EVDO speeds are between 700kbs and 1400kbs.

I am at 1700kbs myself, and it keeps going up (was 1300kbs a few months ago).

Using the FCC app for speeds.
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JeffdaBeat

Mar 31, 2010, 11:05 AM
Well yeah, in a metro area that's very true. But when I was on EVDO between cities...my God it could have just been EDGE.
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 11:12 AM
I don't live in a metro area. I live in the mountains.
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Jayshmay

Mar 31, 2010, 5:14 PM
Hmm, your using the FCC app for speeds? I've been using the speedtest.net app.

Do you think I should use the FCC app?
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 6:13 PM
they're basically the same app.. just less servers I think (but the servers seem to only be the best ones)
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Jayshmay

Mar 31, 2010, 6:18 PM
Well heck, it is free, so it's not like I can lose anything by trying it.
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CellStudent

Mar 31, 2010, 10:53 AM
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CellStudent

Mar 31, 2010, 11:10 AM
1: Verizon has plenty of 3G backhaul in urban areas. Excessive backhaul is not needed in the rural areas, which are still high quality enough to support 3G services for the number of customers that exist there.

2: Verizon hasn't grown it's 3G footprint AT ALL since the Alltel acquisition, yet they're still spending billions and billions on network enhancements. I'll let you be the judge as to whether every penny of that is being served to Seattle and Boston for LTE trials. But maybe, just maybe, a large chunk of that cash is going to laying fiber in the ground to support 4G level backhaul in the near future. It would be extremely wise for for VZW to build the backhaul first, THEN put up the LTE antenna arrays, especially since VZW was...
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fahrende

Mar 31, 2010, 11:18 AM
Depends on how much they've invested into upgrading their network. EV-DO was great when it came out, but its network capacity is rather limited. Little known fact, The VCAST music downloads were already straining VZWs 3G network. Not VZWs fault, it's just the limitations of the technology (I think the upper bound on an EV-DO cell site is like 16 simultaneous users).

With Rev A, I don't know that capacity limitations will be or if VZW has already started upgrading to that.

Bottom line, circuit switched data calling is extremely resource intensive as compared to packet switched land line internet connections. The iPhone data paradigm treated the phone more like a computer which meant that developers were going to create network taxin...
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 1:25 PM
Verizon's entire 3g network is RevA and has been for awhile. they started upgrading to it awhile ago.
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fahrende

Mar 31, 2010, 2:55 PM
Does Rev A use MIMO technology or is that the future stuff?
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 3:02 PM
Still future stuff I believe. But I can tell you that verizon seems to be handling droid traffic just fine.
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bluecoyote

Mar 31, 2010, 3:16 PM
If web usage statistics are anything to go by, the average Android handset user uses their device way less.

As an aside, I notice a lot of Android handset users using Opera Mini.
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fahrende

Mar 31, 2010, 3:27 PM
I'm guessing the the smaller app count and the smaller fanatical fan base will probably cause less strain on the network ;-)

I somehow doubt that there's going to be a mass migration of people over the VZW just get the iPhone since many will have to break their contracts (other than the fans of this website 🙄.) In which case, I'm sure both companies will get to slowly share the pain.

I'm sure Apple will grow some market share as people have two different networks to chose from, but with the next round of smart phones coming from various directions, I think there will be a lot of compelling reasons to not maintain the blind apple loyalty.
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 4:28 PM
Don't forget that there are a LOT of droid users tethering (since it is a free app on the marketplace, no rooting required), and the app count might be small, but it's growing daily. Not to mention that most android users have at least a couple of widgets that are passively gathering information for them without them having to load the app (using data)

Actually every time they poll iphone users a pretty big chunk of them show no special love towards ATT and would readily consider another carrier if they could get an iphone that works on it.

That being said, I don't think that any new carriers will be as big of a boon as Apple is hoping it will be. They'll get initial subscribers, sure.. but most of their fanatical fans already have ...
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Jayshmay

Mar 31, 2010, 9:50 PM
Damn it I wish I can Tether!!!!!!!
How frinkin complicated can it be, I d/l the drivers from junefabrics website, d/l PDAnet app, I checked marked usb debugging, I'd like to know what I did wrong!
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 11:14 PM
hmm.. not sure.. you're starting the app on the phone,right?
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Jayshmay

Mar 31, 2010, 11:17 PM
Yeah, it even says pdanet running in the background, then I go to the lower right corner of my laptops screen, and click on the little pdanet icon, and it gives me this failed to connect crap.
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 4:25 PM
And where are you getting those statistics? You've proven yourself unable accurately quote sources so citing them might be a good idea. yes, 50% of web searches originate from the iphones, but searches from Android handsets is increasing exponentially, and more data intensive apps are being released on the marketplace every week.

And as an aside I have yet to meet any android user who uses Opera Mini as their primary browser. They have it on their phone, sure.. But more people use Dolphin (and now, I'm guessing, the Default browser) than opera.
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Jayshmay

Mar 31, 2010, 9:07 PM
I'm not, I'm using the Dolphin browser on my Droid.
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Jayshmay

Mar 31, 2010, 9:05 PM
A little earlier I got 2.06mbps uszing that FCC app, whuch btw, wasn't even developed by the FCC, kinda strange, that's called FCC Broadband Test Nd yet it wasn't even made by the FCC.
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Menno

Mar 31, 2010, 9:17 PM
you expect someone in the govt to know how to write app code that works? 😛
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Jayshmay

Apr 1, 2010, 2:12 AM
Jason, check out this article. It's essentially about how willingly BB users are about leaving the BB brand for either Android, or Iphone.

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109225/ ... »
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Jayshmay

Apr 2, 2010, 9:59 AM
I got a surprise last night @ 4am your time!!!!

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »
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scorpio

Mar 31, 2010, 4:27 PM
Do you have any idea how inferior GSM is to CDMA? It makes me laugh when I see comments like yours, as if the iphone is this wonder-device. Verizon have over 100 mil wireless broadband data cards on their network, there is no way an iphone pulls more data than a laptop or PC. Sprint has the most data cards out of all the carriers. At&t's network is garbage.
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bluecoyote

Mar 31, 2010, 5:28 PM
Check your facts. 75% of all traffic from the 4 ISP's comes from the iPhone. Not just AT&T- the iPhone. I *average* 4.5GB/month with mine, too- about what a data card plan provides.
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scorpio

Mar 31, 2010, 5:55 PM
Bull-sh-t! Many-many Sprint customers with data cards(myself included) have been grandfathered over, the plans remain unlimited, no cap. I easily pull three times what you allegedly average. For your information, the data usage on a handset is not the same as the data usage on a laptop or PC. Check your, facts!
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justfinethanku

Mar 31, 2010, 6:55 PM
Wait... are you trying to say that 4.5gigs is not equal to 4.5gigs because it was used on an iPhone and not a Laptop?

Really dude, did you proof read before clicking "submit"?????
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movekwik2002

Mar 31, 2010, 9:23 PM
justfinethanu ... Your right! I use between 4 and 6 gb off data on my iphone. I thought I did not use it that much until I looked at my bills.

almost every app that is on my phne talks to a server and that transmits data ota.

SCORPIO .... YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Wow I can say it any other way.

hold the presses ....... news flash!!!!!!

Just on phone scoop they have reported that data on the iphone is no longer rated the same as other data devices. Iphone data gets rated by the TERABYTE!
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scorpio

Apr 1, 2010, 9:39 AM
That data on wireless handsets is compressed, similar to how Apple allegedly "tweaked" the iphone. When I look at data usage on my acct, my data card uses much-more data than my wireless handset. I know I use more data on my handset, when I am out in the filed I tend to use my handset more than my laptop.
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muchdrama

Apr 1, 2010, 12:22 AM
justfinethanku said:
Sure they have the "largest 3G network" but I wonder if they have the backhaul capacity that the smaller and faster AT&T network has in order to handle a phone like the iPhone?

Maybe we will see, several foreign carriers have had pretty serious issues with network strain when they got the iPhone, lets see if Verizon can back up it's promise of being ready.

I hope they are. The more iPhones out there, the better.

I guess we will find out come fall!

(PS, I still loath Verizon. LOATH)


As a Verizon subscriber for 7 years, I'd like to see how the network handles the iPhone, too.

My guess? Probably better, but then again Verizon's had ample time to prepare the network if a...
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