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FCC Not Satisfied with Verizon's ETF Explanation

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I work for VZW, here's how I see it

qcjl84

Dec 24, 2009, 3:33 AM
First off, I completely agree regarding the $1.99/MB charges. While many of them are valid, more often than not they seem shady. When I worked in customer care I almost always credited them back.

However, I see absolutely no problem with the ETF increase. Consider these points:

1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.

2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been stated in previous threads, the man...
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info411

Dec 24, 2009, 6:37 AM
5. Don't forget point #1. The ETF is optional. Likewise, don't forget that people WILL vote with their wallets. So far, the Droid has been a HUGE hit for us. It really is undoubtedly the first phone we've offered that is competing admirably with the iPhone. Every subsidized Droid purchase since November 15 has had the new ETF, and yet it seems like a very small percentage of online lurkers that are complaining about it.

VZW will make hand over fist with the DATA that is MANDOTARY for the device. It's not a huge hit for VZW cause they work closely with motorola for rebates etc.. Behind the scenes. Now if you offer the DROID with data optional because it "DOES" campaign should allow it to be but nope, data must be forced on. The ETF is just...
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shiftmobile

Dec 24, 2009, 7:51 AM
You are incredibly misinformed.
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lancekalzas

Dec 28, 2009, 10:56 AM
You shouldn't write posts like this without providing the facts or an analysis of how or in what way he is misinformed.

By not providing that information, it makes your posts completely useless, worthless, etc. So if he is in fact misinformed, take the time to explain how.
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trojandrew

Dec 29, 2009, 6:43 PM
"You shouldn't write posts like this without providing the facts or an analysis of how or in what way he is misinformed.

By not providing that information, it makes your posts completely useless, worthless, etc. So if he is in fact misinformed, take the time to explain how."

ROFL like the way info411 provided facts and analysis for his post???? i didn't know unverifiable heresay was hard evidence on the int3rnetz
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lancekalzas

Jan 4, 2010, 10:20 AM
Did I say he did? info411 didn't ONLY state the guy he is responding to his misinformed. At least he put some effort into his post. Whether the information is factual or not is irrelevant as I wasn't commenting on his.

Besides you have to admit someone who says "You are incredibly misinformed" and doesn't provide any other information, whether subjective or objective, to back it up is completely pointless.
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qcjl84

Dec 24, 2009, 9:42 AM
info411 said:

Also, VZW treat their employees like crap. Sure they entice you with great health benefits and etc.. But if you take a break for even a minute BAM you are on watch and diciplinary actions occurs, how I know this? Cause I talk to alot of people that work there at the bars and on the streets. Also those health benefits are there because they end up having health issues from panic attacks and even death.


??

Breaks are required. My breaks often ran over the standard 15 minutes. When I was in customer care, my adherence (amount of time I adhered to my schedule) was always 95% or higher. I've never been on disciplinary action.

The job is what you make of it. I don't work for companies that ...
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emwolb81

Dec 24, 2009, 12:12 PM
I also work for vzw but in the sales channel in store, officially per hr we had our breaks taken away over a year ago. As for lunch since we are so short staffed we rarely take a full half hour lunch. It is def a stressful environment we work in. The people in corp that I know on the other hand think the company is great and apparently get a lot of benefits.

On to the termination fee, if the data plan was optional then it 350 termination fee applies to phones like the touch, chocolate touch rogue, and maybe even the env3, would make sense. But you are required to have the data plan so vzw should suck up the cost. Also it was vzw choice to do a bogo offer on bberry and netbooks (people would buy a bberry and get a netbook free then ...
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DonM

Dec 24, 2009, 12:16 PM
If they lose money on a cancellation in the 23rd month, how do they make money allowing people to upgrade before that?
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Slammer

Dec 27, 2009, 9:23 PM
You've asked this question many times with no answer. With Reps from carriers, it is a rhetorical question. I think you know the answer to your own question. 😁
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bp3dots1

Dec 27, 2009, 12:38 PM
"I also work for vzw but in the sales channel in store, officially per hr we had our breaks taken away over a year ago. As for lunch since we are so short staffed we rarely take a full half hour lunch."

Do you not work in a state with labor laws which dictate that you are required to take certain breaks?
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Azeron

Dec 27, 2009, 10:03 PM
Who is his advocate? HR? 🤣 VZW is anti-union so unless he goes directly to Wage and Labor board he is SOL. Going to HR is just as likely to get him blackballed as a trouble maker.
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bp3dots1

Dec 27, 2009, 10:54 PM
If the HR dept knows their noses from their a-holes, they will respond very quickly to employees befing forced to violate labor laws. The company can be fined on a per missed break basis. On top of other penalties that may be incurred.

Also, Im not sure if VZW does, but many companies use those anonymous tip lines, which if available, would be a way to try and voice his issues.

And if HR wont respond, or if he feels that going to HR may lead to retaliation, then going to the State board is a viable option.
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Azeron

Dec 28, 2009, 5:20 AM
They won't retaliate against him. He simply won't advance. Store managers run their stores like fiefs and making a target of oneself is simply not wise (not over a flimsy fifteen minute break missed here or there or a missed lunch). If he is in his manager's good graces and misses quota one month he may not get PIPed. If he has rattled someone's cage they are going to advance him to unemployment by the book.
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bp3dots1

Dec 28, 2009, 7:56 AM
Well, then reporting it to the state sounds like the best plan. He seems to feel like hes working in a sweatshop, and if he wants to continue that way without doing anything about it, he might as well stop complaining.

If he did report it and they can verify that whats happening there is against the law, that manager will be the one promoted to customer, as I'm sure VZW doesnt want to be dealing with the large amount of fines and bad press it would bring.
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Azeron

Dec 28, 2009, 10:33 PM
Like I said, they will do everything by the book. If he is just that good and never misses quotas...he will be a sales rep there for the rest of his days. However, if he has a poor month here or there where a "good soldier" might be given a break perhaps they will nail his *bleep*s to the wall. Best to just let it be unless he has a great second option for employment.
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Azeron

Dec 27, 2009, 9:58 PM
Ah! A disgruntled VZW employee, eh? Yeah. I've been there. I guess some things never change. Sorry to hear it.
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bbluv4u

Dec 24, 2009, 12:29 PM
Okay, I watched the youtube video....both in fact.

1) The first video was a news store about stressful jobs and how customer service jobs are stressful. Wow, really? Just because a news center used a local call center as an example of a stressful job does not make one call center/company worse than another. Also, if you truly are feeling so stressed that you are afraid you will drop dead at your desk then you need to address that within your own life choices and/or with your doctor. I know the economy is bad and jobs are hard to find but if you can't deal with the stress then you are free to leave that job.

2) A union video? Really? Half of the people in that video were from Verizon Landline and it was from 2004. As mentioned before,...
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xanadul14619

Dec 28, 2009, 2:47 PM
Ok fist of all I've been in the sales channel for about six years....that being said: I have yet to come across very many call center reps that seemed to know their rear from a hole in the wall; there have been a few but I would say with gusto that 85-90% of the call center/coos people I have come in contact with make me just want to play in traffic from the incorrectness they spew.

That isnt even counting the overwhelming amount of stories I have heard from customers about miss information being given, almost makes me want to recommend people call wal-mart instead for their customer service needs(only kidding.)

However seriously, to claim that they spend so much money and time on training is a joke, I have had conversations with ...
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Azeron

Dec 28, 2009, 2:56 PM
Believe it. Two months for customer service and an additional month for tech. It's not enough though.
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xanadul14619

Dec 28, 2009, 3:10 PM
A whole two months? we train for 3 months and then probationary which basically means new guy working with top sales people for another 4 months ...in reality a person recieves seven months training
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lancekalzas

Dec 28, 2009, 3:24 PM
Just because you've talked to people that sound like they haven't had any training doesn't mean there isn't a significant budget for training nor does it mean they didn't spend 2 months in a classroom.

You're only aware of what you perceive so, of course, your perception is that these phone agents do not have training but do you really think VZW VPs are going to stick thousands of people on the phones without teaching them anything?
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xanadul14619

Dec 28, 2009, 5:29 PM
Well, the thought had occured to me as I think that the simple fact that over six years this hasen't changed kind of signifies that might be the case. True it is a limited account of one person (me) but it is wierd that it's been the same for so long, wouldn't you agree?
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frank rizzo

Dec 28, 2009, 5:24 PM
I have been in customer service for 7 years and rarely find a sales rep that knows anything. I can't tell you how many times I get a call from a customer after upgrading to a new phone saying that the sales rep said to call customer service to get credits for previous downloads which we don't do. How about the countless accounts with family share lines on different levels. Promised credits then don't apply them. How many accounts that have been spun. Point to all this is it doesn't matter if your sales or customer service mis information is given on both sides and I'm sure you've given out your share of misinformation at some point. Time to step off that high horse your on guy and work as a team player. I know I've covered a few sales per...
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bp3dots1

Dec 30, 2009, 3:27 PM
Its one of those cases where you'll always have good and bad people on both sides. A shame really, things would be nicer if both sides were always honest and on the ball.
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sprintnextelrep

Dec 24, 2009, 12:32 PM
AKA info411 works there, like that isnt obvious
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bp3dots1

Dec 27, 2009, 12:39 PM
Sound more like he/she got canned from there.
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art23ncsu

Dec 24, 2009, 8:48 AM
qcjl84 said:
First off, I completely agree regarding the $1.99/MB charges. While many of them are valid, more often than not they seem shady. When I worked in customer care I almost always credited them back.

However, I see absolutely no problem with the ETF increase. Consider these points:

1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.

2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been st
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navydave

Dec 24, 2009, 12:25 PM
Why is what a company charges for its products or secvices any business of anypart of government??????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????

If you can get cheaper someplace else go get it.
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DonM

Dec 24, 2009, 12:40 PM
Please explain: If Verizon loses money with a 23rd month cancellation, how can they make money if they are allowing upgrades before that? If the cost of the original device hasn't been recovered, why are they providing a new one that needs to be paid for?

I'm not arguing for or against the etf. I'm just saying that their claim of losses with late term cancellations doesn't make sense.
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tbacba

Dec 24, 2009, 2:46 PM
ETF's are associated with contracts. What normal customer stops after 2 years with a carrier and says "Oops, time to go to a monthly plan"? I purchased my own phone, no subsidy, and was already halfway through my second 2 year contract with Verizon when I decided to cancel. They STILL hit me with an ETF fee! I tried reasoning with the highest level CS rep I could talk to about how I had bought my own phone, length of service, etc. Her sorry response was "Sorry, nothing I can do, it's a legal document". So I did something instead, I switched to Sprint and will never, ever go back to a company so blood sucking greedy as Verizon. Whew, I feel better now! 😛
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bp3dots1

Dec 24, 2009, 3:34 PM
tbacba said:
ETF's are associated with contracts. What normal customer stops after 2 years with a carrier and says "Oops, time to go to a monthly plan"? I purchased my own phone, no subsidy, and was already halfway through my second 2 year contract with Verizon when I decided to cancel. They STILL hit me with an ETF fee! I tried reasoning with the highest level CS rep I could talk to about how I had bought my own phone, length of service, etc. Her sorry response was "Sorry, nothing I can do, it's a legal document". So I did something instead, I switched to Sprint and will never, ever go back to a company so blood sucking greedy as Verizon. Whew, I feel better now! 😛



The rep was right. You did sig...
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tbacba

Dec 24, 2009, 8:37 PM
I didn't say it was illegal, just greedy. If the stated purpose (by Verizon) of ETF's is to subsidize the phone, and I didn't purchase the phone from them, then it's pure greed. To someone else's point though, we all have a choice, and I made mine by switching carriers.
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qcjl84

Dec 25, 2009, 2:38 AM
This must've been a while ago. At one point a contract WAS required even when you brought your own phone. We've offered the month-to-month option for almost 2 years now.
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texaswireless

Dec 25, 2009, 3:31 AM
Not sure when exactly this happened but something tells me it wasn't recent. When Verizon Wireless required agreements for rate plans Sprint did the same "greedy" thing. So did AT&T. Switching to Sprint out of spite for Verizon's policies when Sprint had the same policies is quite comical.

No one maintains that practice anymore (of the top 4 carriers).
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JustinGoldberg

Dec 25, 2009, 9:13 AM
some smaller providers will pay the etf when switching to them. But I guess most of the people here know that! 🤭
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tbacba

Dec 25, 2009, 10:23 AM
It was mid 2008.
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texaswireless

Dec 25, 2009, 4:41 PM
When you cancelled or signed the last agreement? If it was when you cancelled then my point is made. If it was 2008 when you made the new agreement you received some consideration in exchange for that agreement.
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Azeron

Dec 24, 2009, 9:36 PM
Yeah, have to be careful of shady reps. If you are not buying a subsidized handset they should not have you sign a contract. You will get the smooth talker who will say that if you go ahead and sign a two year contract anyway that you will be eligible for New Every Two in twenty months. DON'T DO IT!
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dthree

Dec 24, 2009, 4:54 PM
qcjl84 said:
1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.

How do the postpaid mtm prices compare to the standard plans? I can't find that information anywhere on verizon's site, or even that it exists at all.
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Azeron

Dec 24, 2009, 8:42 PM
They are exactly the same. One may go to the website and select phones, it defaults to two year contract pricing. One can then change to one year or month-to-month and the phone prices will reflect the choice selected.
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dthree

Dec 25, 2009, 12:33 AM
Thanks, I didn't go that far in the process.

I think the MtM plans should be less than the contract plans since they don't subsidize the phone.
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WhoDey

Dec 28, 2009, 9:43 AM
People always want it cheaper cheaper cheaper.
WHY should it be cheaper?? I would argue that it should be MORE expensive, to get the most money they can out of you, since you can up and leave at any time you feel like it.
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AceXMachine

Dec 25, 2009, 2:28 AM
Let me make a small correction to point #2.

When a carrier, any carrier, purchases phones in bulk from a manufacturer the carrier gets a discount or subsidy on the per-unit price. The "full retail" price asked by the carrier is higher than what they paid of course, but not as much as the MSRP from the OEM (if there is one) if you were to/could buy from them directly. The Droid, and other carrier exclusives in general, are a special case in that the OEM doesn't really list an MSRP since you can't get the phone directly from them. You can believe that the Droid would cost you anywhere from $100-$200 more than the "full retail" price from the carrier if Motorola were to sell it unlocked/unbranded. So for those of you who gripe about pa...
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mrpmpfan

Dec 25, 2009, 7:28 AM
They make mad bank on the crappy accessories they sell in the store. They sell cheap horrible bluetooth headsets for $30, and crappy generic cases for $25. Believe you and me those accessories that your wonderful company sells does not cost them more than a buck or two.

On top of that your company also does outsource its telephone help. Because I have called for billing and tech support before and the gentleman who I was talking with was defiently from India.
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smittycal

Dec 25, 2009, 7:50 AM
WTF lol...How did you conclude that VZW outsources just becasue you got an "india" speaking person on the phone. You do know that VZW hires people with different ethnic backgrounds here in the US. I worked in the call center for 3 years along side 3 Pakistani people and all of them were legal US residents.

To my knowledge VZW has not outsourced its CS and Ive been with the company for almost 10 years.


Oh and on the accessory mark up...what company DOSENT mark up its accessories. Walmart does it...so does Radio Shack and Best Buy. Unless your a dealer and buy in bulk to get things at cost or close to cost good luck finding cheap items in a retail store of any kind..(unless its on clearance)
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qcjl84

Dec 25, 2009, 10:22 PM
mrpmpfan said:
They make mad bank on the crappy accessories they sell in the store. They sell cheap horrible bluetooth headsets for $30, and crappy generic cases for $25. Believe you and me those accessories that your wonderful company sells does not cost them more than a buck or two.

On top of that your company also does outsource its telephone help. Because I have called for billing and tech support before and the gentleman who I was talking with was defiently from India.


1. Yes, we do make bank on accessories. And people willingly pay for them. If they don't like the prices we offer, accessories are a dime a dozen on eBay. I know because I've purchased plenty of accessories from eBay myself.

2....
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info411

Dec 26, 2009, 6:36 AM
1. Yes, its way cheaper to order accessories online.

2. Yes VZW DOES outsource their customer service, not to india, but a company called LiveBridge.. They get training but not completely its like the indirect of VZW. Sometimes they don't know what their doing, and sometimes they screw up accounts. Next time you call Customer Service asked them if they are LiveBridge or not.
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AceXMachine

Dec 26, 2009, 5:01 PM
info411 said:
2. Yes VZW DOES outsource their customer service, not to india, but a company called LiveBridge.. They get training but not completely its like the indirect of VZW. Sometimes they don't know what their doing, and sometimes they screw up accounts. Next time you call Customer Service asked them if they are LiveBridge or not.


The question was not if they outsource at all, it was if they outsource to another country, which they do NOT. But you are correct, the likelyhood of them screwing something up is alot higher than with corporate reps.
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qcjl84

Dec 26, 2009, 5:46 PM
Yes, good clarification. We DO outsource some of our customer care, but correct, it's not overseas. The calls we outsource tend to be overflow calls if our native centers are swamped. I've never heard of LiveBridge, though. We outsource to ACS, AFNI, Sitel, RYLA, etc., all of which are located in the US.
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MillaTime021

Dec 26, 2009, 9:07 PM
Okay, where to start..... Our accessories are made by the same company that makes them for every other cellular company in America so lets not go there. Second of all, we have NO blue tooths for 30.00 in the store and offer the Plantronics Pro, The Jawbone Prime, and the Moto H15 Pure which are 3 of the best headsets on the market.

Yes we make money off accessories but guess what? You don't have to buy them if you don't want. Part of what you are paying for is the ability to go back to 1 location anytime in the first year and they will fix it for you or replace it if needed. Would you go back to Dell and tell them that their 60.00 for a 2 GB memory upgrade is too much?


Lastly, you didn't talk to someone from Verizon outside the cou...
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Menno

Dec 29, 2009, 2:00 PM
How many customers purchase those accessories though?

And yes, they could be making 20+ profit per accessory, but lets say they sold 1000 accesories in a month (in a store). That is 20,000 profit. pretty sweet, except when you figure out it pales in comparison to how much they make on phone contracts.

that 20,000 comes nowhere close to covering costs for a store that does that much volume (at my old store I sold maybe 300 and 20k just covered expenses, and this is for a retailer store, not corp)

An average contracts netted a retailer about 120 or so (less with more upgrades, more if we had a lot of port ins) The typical take rate on accessories seems to be between 1.5 and 2.0. Lets say 2.00, so for 1000 accessories, you would ha...
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Azeron

Dec 29, 2009, 10:02 PM
Not only that, but since when does a company have to apologize for making money? What? Hey it's Bill Gates. He's loaded! Let's steal from him. He won't miss it and if he does *Bleep* him! He can afford it! I know that this is in fact how our tax code works. The idea that it is okay to tax the wealthy at a higher rate simply because they have more, but it is still a wrong-headed principle and should not be extended. Verizon noticed a spike in cancellations after offering BOGOs on advanced devices and those devices just happened to appear on Ebay. They CAN do an ESN/MEID history search, of course. No it is not okay to rip them off because they seem to make a lot of money.
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justcallitanight

Dec 27, 2009, 1:57 PM
I completely agree with what you on the core of what you stating, and I believe technically the fee increase is legal, however legal does not always translate to ethical.

Allow me to elaborate…

While yes the ETF is explained in the terms and conditions of service and a customer is knowingly agreeing to them thus they are bound those T&C’s…period (at least legally).

However to me this seems like the cell phone equivalent of a balloon mortgage. You are luring new customers with too good to be true upfront discounts off of equipment and bounding them by stiff T&C's, which in many cases may be beyond the customer's means, causing them to later pay dearly.

Again I fully acknowledge the roll of customer responsibility...
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qcjl84

Dec 27, 2009, 3:17 PM
I don't think this is anything remotely like the balloon mortgages.

Yes, our offers are really good. But all we're asking is that you stay with us for 2 years. You don't pay a penny of an ETF if you just uphold your end of the deal and stick with us for as long as you said. Mortgages, on the other hand, are typically a 15 to 30 year commitment and if you've got a variable APR (which many victims of the mortgage crisis did), then you're at the mercy of whoever your bank has sold the mortgage to for the umpteenth time.

As you state, you acknowledge the role of the customer's responsibility. I'm not going to dispute whether or not us raising the ETF is ethical, per se, because that's a thread unto itself, but it makes business sense. You'...
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AndroidRules

Dec 27, 2009, 4:39 PM
Why is this topic still going on? It's like beating a dead horse. Stop being deadbeats, pay your damn bill. Stop being flaky. Make sure your the carrier you choose is the right one for you and stick with it. Too bad if Sprint or AT&T come out with another phone the following month that you now wnat. You signed a contract with your current carrier. Deal with it or deal with collections later.
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qcjl84

Dec 27, 2009, 5:15 PM
Amen. I think the real issue here should be the $1.99/MB charges. The ETF is pretty clear cut. On the other hand, those data charges do raise an eyebrow.
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justcallitanight

Dec 27, 2009, 7:49 PM
While the analogy itself is not perfect the reason I stated that example is because the basis behind it is similar.

When talking about advanced devices purchased at full retail price it is a fairly large sum of money involved. Enough to where if you were to walk into an electronics store and finance something of the same value a credit check would be performed and the consumer would be approved or denied based on the result.

VZW is offering the same deal to their $0 deposit customers as their credit challenged ones, ones which have likely never been able to afford a Smart phone and the service required on it previously, so when they see buy one get one smart phones for next to nothing they jump at the chance without fully comprehending...
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bp3dots1

Dec 28, 2009, 8:09 AM
"When talking about advanced devices purchased at full retail price it is a fairly large sum of money involved."

If you cant afford to buy it flat out, and you aren't willing to agree to the financing terms to buy it...GET SOMETHING ELSE.

This is that BS entitlement attitude which pervades America. The simple fact is, if you can't afford it, you dont need it. The story would be different if it was a necessity, like food, utilities, water, etc. But we're talking about fancy cellphones. Nobody needs one. They just make things more convenient at times.
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Azeron

Dec 27, 2009, 4:57 PM
A balloon mortgage? Seriously? The ETF increase is nothing of the sort. That would be like I pay Verizon $100 monthly for service and then in year two it doubles. The ETF increase effects no one in that manner. It is only going to come into play if one terminates one's contract early. Don't do it. Or don't sign up with Verizon in the first place.
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justcallitanight

Dec 27, 2009, 7:20 PM
It’s merely an analogy, I understand it's not exactly comparing apples to apples but I am referring to the principal behind.

Basically it’s offering a customer a deal which looks amazing but should an unforeseen circumstance arise later in the agreement that customer is left in over their head. Almost like financing a something to someone who does not meet the basic criteria which a responsible finance company would require.

Does is the customer still to blame for this absolutely, as you all stated they agreed to it.

However the concept is as I see it is bad business ethics, legal so far, yes, but its things like that which must regulated. Which I believe in the end it will be regulated via the FCC or Class Action, it wil...
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Azeron

Dec 27, 2009, 9:51 PM
I would LOVE to see the FCC ban ETFs or a class action law suit succeed. A reality check is needed by the American wireless consumer. The only way to bring all the carriers into one accord is regulation. I think it is funny that Americans do not want to sign contracts or abide by the ones they DO sign but want free phones.
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bp3dots1

Dec 28, 2009, 8:16 AM
You can't blame people's irresponsibility on bad business practices. In making the decision to sign a long contract involving that much money, it is the customers job to figure out what they can afford. Part of that is knowing what you can be ready to handle should the proverbial poo hit the fan.

For example: On any given day, I know to within 5 bucks what my checking account has, and if I want to spend a lot of money, I'll check out my invested funds to see whats there. That way, I know that if im applying for a credit card to buy a $7k home theater, I'll be able to keep up the payments should I lose my job/become disabled/be attacked by hippos. That's me being responsible for myself. If I thought that should something bad happen, I'd b...
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CamelTowing

Dec 28, 2009, 10:02 AM
Azeron said:
don't sign up with Verizon in the first place.


I completely agree... but I'm not sure this is what VZW had in mind when they were hoping the fanboys would defend their decisions... "Choose someone else". You can bet people will.
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Azeron

Dec 28, 2009, 2:51 PM
If I could send every VZW customer not on an advanced device to Page Plus...I would. Why pay $119.99 for Unlimited Talk and Text with Verizon when one can pay $39.99 to use the exact same network with the same plan? If you believe that I am a fan...you're either new here or haven't being paying attention. The fact that I have Libertarian ideals fuels my thoughts on this subject and the government's place in business---not a desire to keep customers with Verizon.
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CamelTowing

Dec 29, 2009, 9:02 PM
Naw I'm nt new at all Azeron.
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bp3dots1

Dec 28, 2009, 7:59 AM
How is this possibly unethical? Look at the contract. Regardless of what the rep says its right there.

If you feel that you may not have the means to pay the $350 later should the need arise, then go with a non advanced device (lower ETF) or a different carrier.
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CamelTowing

Dec 28, 2009, 9:58 AM
qcjl84 said:

2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been stated in previous threads, the manufacturers have to make money somewhere, and since they don't sell the service, they sell the phones at a higher price. I worked for T-Mobile in the past in the sales channel and it was the exact same thing there, too.




Ok... so it cracks me up that Call Center CSR's think they know the financial goings ons of the company they work for."We pay almost full retail for those phones"... Not likely. Carriers in the US would all be extinct if that was the case. I have worked for...
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Azeron

Dec 28, 2009, 2:42 PM
Verizon doesn't have ETFs to make money. They have them to keep customers. Perhaps the fact that they lie about what the ETFs are for is a subject we should discuss, but to state that the purpose of an ETF is to make money is ridiculous.
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CamelTowing

Dec 29, 2009, 8:56 PM
Azeron said:
Verizon doesn't have ETFs to make money. They have them to keep customers. Perhaps the fact that they lie about what the ETFs are for is a subject we should discuss, but to state that the purpose of an ETF is to make money is ridiculous.


I think that is the very argument the FCC is making here. VZW is trying to use the ETF charge to make money... I agree that it is ridiculous. They shouldn't be allowed to charge outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what the other carriers are charging.
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bp3dots1

Jan 3, 2010, 9:58 AM
CamelTowing said:


I think that is the very argument the FCC is making here. VZW is trying to use the ETF charge to make money... I agree that it is ridiculous. They shouldn't be allowed to charge outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what the other carriers are charging.



They are a private business that provide a 100% optional service. They should absolutely be allowed to charge "outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what other carriers are." They should also be allowed to charge outlandishly low fees if they want to. The fact is, nobody is forcing you to be their customer, or to sign a contract with them that would bind you to that ETF. If you dont like their policies, take your bu...
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CamelTowing

Jan 3, 2010, 5:38 PM
bp3dots1 said:


They are a private business that provide a 100% optional service. They should absolutely be allowed to charge "outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what other carriers are." They should also be allowed to charge outlandishly low fees if they want to. The fact is, nobody is forcing you to be their customer, or to sign a contract with them that would bind you to that ETF. If you dont like their policies, take your business elsewhere.

The FCC needs to find something else to do with their time and our dollars.


They are actually a publicly traded company. Noboday has forced me into anything. I haven't been a customer of theirs for years now. As you may have noticed, despite the ...
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bp3dots1

Jan 3, 2010, 6:00 PM
Actually I cant stand VZW. So yes, I would defend any carrier who had the idea first. You may notice I've never said anything about VZW being all that good. I've merely defended their right, as a business, to price their products and services how they please.

But thanks for playing 🙂
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CamelTowing

Jan 3, 2010, 7:36 PM
bp3dots1 said:
Actually I cant stand VZW. So yes, I would defend any carrier who had the idea first. You may notice I've never said anything about VZW being all that good. I've merely defended their right, as a business, to price their products and services how they please.

But thanks for playing 🙂



So you don't really care what company screws who...

Thanks for playing
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bp3dots1

Jan 3, 2010, 7:43 PM
You'd better at this if you embraced reading comprehension more.

I don't care what companies do with their policies AS LONG AS I HAVE THE CHOICE TO GO WITH WHOEVER I WANT. I do, however, care that the government feels the need to investigate a pricing policy like this. It's a waste of time.

In a smaller scale, (maybe you'll understand better) I also dont care if little Timmy sells lemonade from a stand for $5 and his neighbor, Johnny, sells it for $.25. Because If I want the lemonade I can choose whomever's stand I please.

(Or do you think the city should force Timmy to lower his price because he's screwing the customer?)
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Slammer

Jan 3, 2010, 9:14 PM
The point being ignored here is the fact that almost 30 percent of all wireless customers in general are discouraged or dissatisfied with how all carriers are handling issues. All proper channels through carrier customer service ports have been exhausted and subs are now turning to the government for answers. When the private sector does not play well with the public sector, the courtship erodes leading to government intervention. The government cannot ignore complaints of this magnatude. In short, one should never bite the hand that feeds them. I believe we haven't seen anything yet. I feel that the more carriers try to swindle the subscribers of a heavily saturated market, the more we are going to see big brother.

I agree that we have ...
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CamelTowing

Jan 5, 2010, 5:54 PM
Slammer said:
The point being ignored here is the fact that almost 30 percent of all wireless customers in general are discouraged or dissatisfied with how all carriers are handling issues. All proper channels through carrier customer service ports have been exhausted and subs are now turning to the government for answers. When the private sector does not play well with the public sector, the courtship erodes leading to government intervention. The government cannot ignore complaints of this magnatude. In short, one should never bite the hand that feeds them. I believe we haven't seen anything yet. I feel that the more carriers try to swindle the subscribers of a heavily saturated market, the more we are going to see big
...
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