FCC Not Satisfied with Verizon's ETF Explanation
Dec 23, 2009, 10:36 PM by Eric M. Zeman
Mignon Clyburn, a member of the Federal Communications Commission, has called Verizon's official response to the FCC's query into the companies' recently revised early termination fees "unsatisfying" and "troubling." In November, Verizon Wireless doubled the ETFs for advanced devices from $175 to $350. Verizon explained that it loses money on customers who choose to break their contract as late as the 23rd month. It said the new ETFs offset the higher cost of the devices, and that it is being used to cover advertising and marketing costs associated with customer acquisition. "Consumers already pay high monthly fees for voice and data designed to cover the costs of doing business," Clyburn said. "It is hard for me to believe that the public interest is being well served." The FCC also points out that Verizon's explanation of erroneously charged data fees does not mesh with consumer complaints. The FCC plans to investigate the matter further when it reconvenes in 2010.
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Comments
Oh Really?
Hum it seems to me The people sticking up for Verizon are the same people that approve of Obama Taking over the bank industry, Auto industry , Health industry, and now will work to tax the air you breath. But touch the big "V" and government needs to stay out of " free market " ! lol Then i think i seen someone say Government needs to protect us from the evil companies That provide us jobs. Then wonder why the jobless rate is over 10% and climbing. I just seen a senator Talk about going after phone makers. This horse crap is getting deeper by the day and the Dems havent been in control for a full year yet. I would say its funny but its actually not funny at all! But you are getting what you voted for so Verizon take a big bite of this ****...
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You must not have read many of the posts. There is actually quite a bit of debate that points to conservative type people saying the government needs to stay out of the way and let Verizon run its own business and liberal types cheering for the FCC ge...
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You are an idiot! I cannot stand Obama. I hate everything he stands for. I support business and free enterprise. This means that I support a business making a decision to help themselves. In a country with a strong (but depleting) private sector,...
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I work for VZW, here's how I see it
First off, I completely agree regarding the $1.99/MB charges. While many of them are valid, more often than not they seem shady. When I worked in customer care I almost always credited them back.
However, I see absolutely no problem with the ETF increase. Consider these points:
1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.
2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been stated in previous threads, the man...
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However, I see absolutely no problem with the ETF increase. Consider these points:
1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.
2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been stated in previous threads, the man...
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5. Don't forget point #1. The ETF is optional. Likewise, don't forget that people WILL vote with their wallets. So far, the Droid has been a HUGE hit for us. It really is undoubtedly the first phone we've offered that is competing admirably with the i...
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qcjl84 said:...
First off, I completely agree regarding the $1.99/MB charges. While many of them are valid, more often than not they seem shady. When I worked in customer care I almost always credited them back.
However, I see abso
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ETF's are associated with contracts. What normal customer stops after 2 years with a carrier and says "Oops, time to go to a monthly plan"? I purchased my own phone, no subsidy, and was already halfway through my second 2 year contract with Verizon ...
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qcjl84 said:...
1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dolla
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Let me make a small correction to point #2.
When a carrier, any carrier, purchases phones in bulk from a manufacturer the carrier gets a discount or subsidy on the per-unit price. The "full retail" price asked by the carrier is higher than what ...
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When a carrier, any carrier, purchases phones in bulk from a manufacturer the carrier gets a discount or subsidy on the per-unit price. The "full retail" price asked by the carrier is higher than what ...
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They make mad bank on the crappy accessories they sell in the store. They sell cheap horrible bluetooth headsets for $30, and crappy generic cases for $25. Believe you and me those accessories that your wonderful company sells does not cost them mor...
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I completely agree with what you on the core of what you stating, and I believe technically the fee increase is legal, however legal does not always translate to ethical.
Allow me to elaborate…
While yes the ETF is explained in the...
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Allow me to elaborate…
While yes the ETF is explained in the...
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qcjl84 said:...
2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been stated in previous threads, the m
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T-MO has it right.
I just wish all companies would go the route tmobile is going. If you want no contract, then you get no phone discount.
VZW offers a month-to-month option, they have since around mid 2008. You can purchase the equipment from them at full retail or you can provide your own (old phone, purchase from eBay).
Note that this is NOT prepaid. You get the exact same pricing ...
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Note that this is NOT prepaid. You get the exact same pricing ...
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US Cellular already has this. No contract, no discount, no promo plan, but you can still have top-notch customer service and reception!
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But they still charge you the same monthly rates, which are priced to include the cost of a phone every year or two.
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Hopeful
Wow! Let's put this story to rest until something actually happens. New Year's is over. I am hopeful that PhoneScoop will post some new articles. This one has been beaten to death.
FCC needs to stay out of business
This is a free market economy and that means that companies can charge what they feel is fair and consumers can buy what they want to buy.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THE FCC TO BE GETTING INVOLVED IN PRIVATE BUSINESS.
No one is forcing people to sign a contract with a $350 etf, they can sign with another carrier or they can pay retail and not sign a contract at all.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THE FCC TO BE GETTING INVOLVED IN PRIVATE BUSINESS.
No one is forcing people to sign a contract with a $350 etf, they can sign with another carrier or they can pay retail and not sign a contract at all.
Celling_it said:...
This is a free market economy and that means that companies can charge what they feel is fair and consumers can buy what they want to buy.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THE FCC TO BE GETTING INVOLVED IN PRIV
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We taxpayers gave up spectrum WE own so that these providers could use the space to provide utilities for us. The FCC is our voice in making sure we aren't abused by the companies who buy this space from us.
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this is economics, plain and simple. you know how long it takes for us as wireless carriers to recoup costs we give to the customers in the form of discounts? FOREVER, if its financially substantiated, the FCC should f*** off and learn how we do busin...
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and stupid businesses like verizon NEED to be regulated for reasons just like this. Verizon makes a TON of money in subscriber fees, their plans are more expensive than anyone elses theres no reason to charge $350 to terminate a contract. Here we are ...
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Celling_it said:...
This is a free market economy and that means that companies can charge what they feel is fair and consumers can buy what they want to buy.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THE FCC TO BE GETTING INVOLVED IN PRIV
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I'm not sure if this has been explained properly...
I've only read a fraction of the ~250 posts thus far, so disregard this post if I'm repeating an already known fact, but from what I've read I think people are missing the main reason for the raise in the ETF on what VZW deems as "advanced devices".
The raise in the ETF from $175 to $350 came shortly after the launch of the Moto Droid. Why? Say you aren't eligible to upgrade. You want a new Droid. If you were to add a new line to your existing account, buy a Droid at the discounted price ($199.99 after rebate) for the new phone line, then move the Droid over to your pre-existing phone number, then turn around and cancel the new line you just added after 31 days, you end up getting a Droid for $374.99 ($199.99 + $175 ETF), while if you w...
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The raise in the ETF from $175 to $350 came shortly after the launch of the Moto Droid. Why? Say you aren't eligible to upgrade. You want a new Droid. If you were to add a new line to your existing account, buy a Droid at the discounted price ($199.99 after rebate) for the new phone line, then move the Droid over to your pre-existing phone number, then turn around and cancel the new line you just added after 31 days, you end up getting a Droid for $374.99 ($199.99 + $175 ETF), while if you w...
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want a real resolution?
make the ETF the difference of the subsidized price.
make the ETF the difference of the subsidized price.
The *ACTUAL STORY* behind Verizon's higher ETF's.... For those who think you can just pay full price
The doubling of Verizon Wireless's ETF is due to Verizon Wireless doubling their device subsidies. The hardware cost of the Motorola Droid, for example, is some $400.00 HIGHER than the cost with contract. Verizon Wireless is doing this in order to make up for their lack of compelling smartphones and instead position smartphones that would originally have cost much more against lower-priced smartphones on other carriers.
Back in the day, handsets were only subsidized by roughly $150.00 / $175.00 , but in order to compete with AT&T, Verizon Wireless is subsidizing handsets upwards of $300.00 in order to remain competitive.
If you were to purchase a handset at full price on Verizon's network such as the Motorola Droid, you would effectiv...
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Back in the day, handsets were only subsidized by roughly $150.00 / $175.00 , but in order to compete with AT&T, Verizon Wireless is subsidizing handsets upwards of $300.00 in order to remain competitive.
If you were to purchase a handset at full price on Verizon's network such as the Motorola Droid, you would effectiv...
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it DOES prorate. 10 a month. Verizon was one of the first companies to start Prorating their ETF.
And try buying a new Bold without a contract (paying retail) it's not cheap either.
And try buying a new Bold without a contract (paying retail) it's not cheap either.
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I absolutely disagree with your "theory" on the compelling handsets. I have owned and used many an iPhone and I owned AT&T stores. Verizon has the droid and must compete with one phone on AT&T for price, the iPhone.
If you had any sense of histor...
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If you had any sense of histor...
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Who cares.... The ETF is what it should be. If you don't want to buy the phone because of the ETF you probably were not going to be on the Verizon Wireless network anyways. It shouldn't matter unless you break your contractual duty! Stop crying about ...
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Wow. So, like, you're saying that you have to pay a lot more for The Droid if you pay for it outright instead of getting a contract? Well, that's it. I'm taking the ATT Coyote's advice and going to ATT where all the phones fart rainbows and are dam...
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bluecoyote said:...
The doubling of Verizon Wireless's ETF is due to Verizon Wireless doubling their device subsidies. The hardware cost of the Motorola Droid, for example, is some $400.00 HIGHER than the cost with contract. Verizon W
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Prepaid it's not just for the credit challenged anymore.
Over seas prepaid is the norm, hardly anyone signs a contract. I saw on the new just the other night it was on the rise in America and 40 million users are already on prepay. I can be a much better deal. For one thing there are a lot of options now that offer unlimited talk, text, and web for a flat $50 a month and you do not have to pay tax on a prepaid, in other words a $50 plane will cost you $50 not one penny more. I know there will be a few asshole on here who will say stuff like you will have to pay full price for your phone, and I say so what? Just look on eBay, you can get a phone on there for cheap. I have at&t now but my contract is up later next year and I will cancel and go prepay with someone. NO CONTRACTS and freedom to leave a...
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Personally, I like Page Plus. A $40 plan that would cost $120 at Verizon and uses Verizon's towers.
http://www.pagepluscellular.com/Plans.aspx »
http://www.pagepluscellular.com/Plans.aspx »
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AT&T is going to do the SAME thing
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/ ... »
You don't think they are keenly aware that the iPhone scam can be halted with one quick move?
The only reason they did not immediately follow suit is to wait and see what the FCC might do. Once the FCC shows they legally cannot do anything about VZW legitimately raising their fees to reflect actual subsidies AT&T will do the same on the iPhone.
You don't think they are keenly aware that the iPhone scam can be halted with one quick move?
The only reason they did not immediately follow suit is to wait and see what the FCC might do. Once the FCC shows they legally cannot do anything about VZW legitimately raising their fees to reflect actual subsidies AT&T will do the same on the iPhone.
And they want to badly!
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How does that article mean ANYTHING about them raising ETFs?
It doesn't. the NYC area is an area with poor call quality DUE to the iphone so it seems to me that they're trying to cut it down a bit in order to give them a chance to correct the issue. ...
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It doesn't. the NYC area is an area with poor call quality DUE to the iphone so it seems to me that they're trying to cut it down a bit in order to give them a chance to correct the issue. ...
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The ETF is there for a good reason
I have worked for VZW for many years and let me say this, the ETF is there for a good reason. We only implemented higher ETF's, so we can offer less expensive equipment pricing on advanced devices for everyone to enjoy. There are too many wireless companies who hoard their money and do not invest it into their network. Higher ETF's allow us to expand our network, so that every consumer can benefit from being able to have more reliable wireless service. Now, last time I checked, almost everyone will pay good money for good service. The bottom line is we always put our customers first and we truly care about the customer experience. Fact, we offer far more better service than anyone in the wireless industry and this does come at a huge expense...
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"Fact, we offer far more better service than anyone in the wireless industry and this does come at a huge expense"
- Our data is still faster than you, Our plans are better than yours, were cheaper then you. Your ETF reasoning is crap and VZW is a...
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- Our data is still faster than you, Our plans are better than yours, were cheaper then you. Your ETF reasoning is crap and VZW is a...
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phoneman29 said:
Fact, we offer far more better service than anyone in the wireless industry and this does come at a huge expense.
Your fact is fiction.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/business/13digi.html »...
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verizon is lame!!!
as a former verizon wireless slave id just like to say i moved from the 4th reich (verizon) to tmobile and i havnt been happier!!! 😁
interesting that you compare verizon to the "4th reich" but you now work for a german company.
Right on, man! I, too, left the Red Nazis in October.
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Is it $350 per line even on business account????
If so, this could really let them lose some business to ATT or whoever if this is the case. If a company wants 250 BBerry's, they may hesitate to sign the dotted line when they can have a much lower ETF. What does everyone think??
Missing the point.
First off. I would like to say that businesses are always going to have P's and L's. It is all part of the natural operation and core process of running a business. Businesses should expect a certain amount of loss. We've been hearing about the losses, but what about the profits? Verizon is not starving and I highly doubt that they are going to go bankrupt anytime soon. If your a business that is going to offer deals to attract customers, you better weigh the facts before making these offers. The more that a computer does, the more I expect to pay. Why should a smartphone be any different? The carriers created the subsidizing that spoiled the children. Now as the children demand more, the carriers have back themselves into a catch 22 situati...
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Verizon is strong arming anyone, if you allow it.
They been armstronging everyone down to their employees and how they do business. Verizon is pretty much the Wal-Mart of wireless. They bully suppliers and indirects. I am glad that the FCC is stepping in. I am not much of government intervention but sometimes these corporation have HUGE egos and need to be smacked down to be in line.
For those who said to un-regulate things, we did that with Wall Street and look at the mess we are in.. Corruption, munipilation, and the top 1% gets richer. If Verizon got their way you won't be able to use future data, or wireless service without hefty fees or restrictions.
For those who said to un-regulate things, we did that with Wall Street and look at the mess we are in.. Corruption, munipilation, and the top 1% gets richer. If Verizon got their way you won't be able to use future data, or wireless service without hefty fees or restrictions.
we didn't "unregulate wallstreet."
we gave a TON of money to government run loan companies, signed LAWS making it harder to deny loans to people with poor credit, and then told these investment firms that they were "too big to fail." aka, all risk...
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we gave a TON of money to government run loan companies, signed LAWS making it harder to deny loans to people with poor credit, and then told these investment firms that they were "too big to fail." aka, all risk...
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Over 125 responses...............
There never will be a satisfactory side to any story.
From the very start of the cellphone industry and until the very end there will be practices that will not please anyone....period 😉
From the very start of the cellphone industry and until the very end there will be practices that will not please anyone....period 😉
Don't want to pay an ETF? Dont cancel and pay your damn bills on time. It's that simple. Don't like Verizon's policies? You have a choice, they're not the only wireless carrier.
Don't want a contract? Fine! Again, you have choices people. You can ...
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Don't want a contract? Fine! Again, you have choices people. You can ...
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The FCC makes a great point.....
...any losses that may be incurred by expensive phones whose contracts are not fulfilled are more than made up for on the back end - monthly service fees, overage charges, etc.
Check out overage charges especially - depending on the plan and carrier, overage charges have usually ranged in price. Trust me, these are little profit centers for the carriers. Those per minute service charges don't cost them diddly, and they're charging as much as $.45 a minute for them.
It's nice to see the FCC finally looking out for the interests of consumers, rather than their big business golfing buddies.
Check out overage charges especially - depending on the plan and carrier, overage charges have usually ranged in price. Trust me, these are little profit centers for the carriers. Those per minute service charges don't cost them diddly, and they're charging as much as $.45 a minute for them.
It's nice to see the FCC finally looking out for the interests of consumers, rather than their big business golfing buddies.
not really, from what I have read the cost on these smart phones is very high.
I guess the fcc should look and see what most consumers have said about it i don't think it has stopped many from buying. It would not stop me I have no intention of cl...
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I guess the fcc should look and see what most consumers have said about it i don't think it has stopped many from buying. It would not stop me I have no intention of cl...
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It's about damn time
I've been griping about this to customers since the beginning.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Question of the year.....
https://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?fm=m&ff= ... »
to paraphrase, if vzw loses money when a customer cancels in the 23rd month, how do they make money when a customer upgrades to another device in the 23rd month or before? Vzw's argument makes no sense at all......
to paraphrase, if vzw loses money when a customer cancels in the 23rd month, how do they make money when a customer upgrades to another device in the 23rd month or before? Vzw's argument makes no sense at all......
Very good point! You are the voice of reason out of all of the comments posted here. I was wondering the same thing....me thinks that VZW is trying to justify the extra fee...but the numbers don't add up
To rephrase.....if Verizon doesn't make m...
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To rephrase.....if Verizon doesn't make m...
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It's all about how they look at it in the books. Most likely when you pay them, the portion that doesn't go to network/paying for your use on it is divied up. A portion goes towards paying off the phone subsidy, and the rest (like interest) gets inv...
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Which is faster...
going to mvd express or the government controlled mvd? isn't that right there proof the government does not know anything about business or efficiency? this issue is not a problem the fcc needs to concern themselves with. read some of the earlier posts, people were nice enough to break down the numbers. phones are discounted severely. therefore, either stop discounting phones, or accept the deal they give you on their terms.
Help me understand
Why is the FCC going after Verizon for having per data charges at $1.99 per megabyte (.002 per KB). If I am thinking clearly, there is 1024 KB to a MB. AT&T was/is charging $.01 per KB. If my math is serving me correctly, that is $10.24 for the same MB.
So the question she be pointing to AT&T for there prices
So the question she be pointing to AT&T for there prices
They are going after them because customers are being charged the $1.99MB charge (as it rounds up) for going to the Mobile Web accidentally. I believe Verizon will need to set a threshold before they charge this fee. Perhaps 300kb or whatever. Some...
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