Are you all criminals? Are you suspect for a crime? Then don't worry about it. They are allowed to track suspects, that is it not joe blow just cause they want to. Besides it does not tell you exactly where you are.
All a person has to do is get a prepaid phone under a fake name. Or if you really must commit a crime - well maybe you should do it the old fashioned way and leave your cell phone at home that night.
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you are a sheep, i hope you get investigated for what you look at on the internet so you can realize that illegality is subjective. what is your cell phone number by the way?
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I'm not a sheep, I just don't do anything that I would not care if the govt. knew about anyway. We are still alot better off than other countries even if they do allow this.
Besides the Govt. does what it wants to anyway whether the court allows it or not. If they wanted to frame you for something they would find someway to do it. Look at the news from last week. Bush has been tapping peoples lines for a few years now without permission, surprised? I'm not.
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but that stuff should be stopped, not allowed, apathy will get you nowhere. I do not do anything wrong either, but what is wrong to me is not wrong to them. If you are not doing what they want you to do, it is a crime.
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Your being awfully whiny about this... đ đ Are you one of those Americans you mentioned? đ
All kidding aside, I am not a suspect in any crime, so I am not worried about it. If someone were a suspect, and the case went to court, cell phone records can be pulled for evidence just like any home phone calling record can so it really doesn't make much difference either way. That is the key to my reasoning, they are only allowing it for suspects, they are not giving them permission to track joe blow.
p.s. Merry Kwanza
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A merry saturnalia to you as well.
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saturnalia?
hmm How about Happy Festivus
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xhaleDec 23, 2005, 9:21 PM
are you guys "brothas" ?? đŗ
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xhale
incoln was a joke...
Got an answer to why you think Lincoln was a joke - or do you just wanna forget such a foolish comment?
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Digital Pimp said:
IBush has been tapping peoples lines for a few years now without permission, surprised? I'm not.
So did good ol' Slick Willy (Bill Clinton for you young people).
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all presidents of every party have made greater efforts to spy on americans and restrict freedoms, because too much freedom for us meant not enough freedom for them and the government.
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Yeah, I'm not a criminal. That's the point.
But by giving them this much power, if they want to make me out to be one, I can be. No matter what I do.
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Do you like being followed by people you don't know in dark alleys at night?
Without Warrant = Without Reason
They can track you for the hell of it. They can track you if their bored.
They should have to show probable cause - which is how you get a warrant.
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It is not without reason - they gave them permission to track SUSPECTS. Which means they are tracking you if you are suspected of committing a crime - so for instance if someone turns you in as a drug dealer, you are then a ssuspected drug dealer, they can track your phone calls to see if you were in the area the person who reported you claims to have seen you dealing drugs. etc.
They are not giving them permission to track people randomly, just those suspected of committing crimes.
So unless you have been going on murdous rampages, robbing banks, or stealing too many slurpees from the local 7-11 there is nothign to worry about.
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Besides, it is not giving your exact location, all it is giving is the tower your call was placed on, which is basically saying, yes This person was on the west side of town at 3 pm and the north side of town at 5 pm. Or this person was in New York on Tuesday and made a call from Chicago on Thursday. They are not getting GPS info, or traingulating down on your location. They are not even getting the numbers you called, just the general area you called from, along with the thousand other people that made a call off that particular tower between 3 and 4 pm, etc...
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it must feel really safe inside that bubble full of denial. I wish I could live under your magical system of government where they never abuse the power.
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They are allowed to legally follow you anyway, your location in when out of your home is public, that is why it is called going out in public. If they really wanted to find you they would just send someone to follow you. Which would actually give them more information anyway. Besides the Govt. doesn't control the records, the cell phone company does, so the question comes down to whether or not you trust your cellular carrier to not allow the govt. to abuse the power.
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i think you're all paranoid schitzophrenics, when was the last time you were framed for murder and sent to prison for life because of it? my guess would be never. lay off. and if they're going to do it anyway, why not give them some limitations on it. you all need medication. or maybe you just need to lay off the drugs
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not sure, i haven't looked at the names on the posts enough to tell who's paranoid and who's not. if you think that this is the government "going too far" then yes. i would prefer a few people to know what tower i used when i called someone than to have murders running loose because they don't know where they are
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no, I don't really care if they track me or not, I've gone long enough on my criminal rampage without getting caught, any advantage for law enforcement would just put a handicap on me and make the game a lil more fun. đ
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haven't you ever thought of, oh i don't know. not breaking the law? i mean i can understand speeding or drinking before you turn 21, but if you've done something bad enough for the government to want to find you. then probablities are that you deserve whatever you get anyway.
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that was actually a joke on my part, but I don't care if they want to track the towers people makes calls off of. I have nothing to hide from that.
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Maybe you should have stayed awake during your History classes instead of mouthing off so foolishly publically.
Amazing. Absolutely amazing.
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FINALLY...someone with some common sense.
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So what do we have a judicial system for?
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To prosecute the criminals?
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I care.
Regardless of if you are a criminal or not as you have outlined it in your narrow example - this is an erosion of our rights.
Maybe you remember something called the Constitution.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Anyone with a grudge can turn anyone into a monitored suspect.
This is exactly what countless of our countrymen have fought and died to prevent.
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holy sh*t......
I agree with plooky.
CP, you bastard. Get over here and gimme a hug.
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1. You obviously didn't know anyone who died on September 11th. I'm pretty sure some of those people should have been tracked, and I'm sure they will be now. Thank you Judge Gorenstein.
2. The 4th Amendment has nothing to do with surveillance or tracking, and if I'm not mistaken, they can't search or seize through a cell phone tower. Let me know when you find something in the Constitution that protects you against surveillance or tracking.
3. This is the ultimate paradox where Democrats call for less government, and Republicans call for more.
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I am actually a Democrat, but I don't feel this impeaches on any of my constitutional rights.
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The government being able to track and monitor your movements without a warrant,based on a suspicion is a huge encroachment upon the rights of citizens. There is no if, ands, or buts about it.
You obviously didn't know anyone who died on September 11th. I'm pretty sure some of those people should have been tracked, and I'm sure they will be now.
The 911 card eh? What are its saves again? +10 to compassion, -3000k hps, and -100 to common sense?
Seriously, try reading the 911 Commission report (hell even excerpts will help) and you will find that your statement is quite silly.
Nothing like a little fear-mongering to help disguise from the fact that rights of law abiding citizens are being eroded to "...
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Why do people link september 11th to everything with demogaguery and threats? if hijackers were smart enough to stay under the radar in any capacity for that long in the united states, they did not have a cell phone, i do not know if your carrier gives phones out to foreigners with visas but we usually require a credit check though american institutions. If anyone thinks this this is anything but monitoring americans and what we do, and were we go at any time of the day i hope that irony will find them on the end of criminal charges through these methods. In other words this is so bad, but not bad enough not to wish on my worst enemy.
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Sprint (at least 3rd party reps) has/have the capabilities to Zero out the social. Thus causing the credit check to come back with a 150 deposit per line. Quite easy for anyone to get a Sprint line.
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it is the same procedure for obtaining a gun illegally, people who will do bad things will get a tracfone from a wal-mart and activate it on the internet at a library.
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The 4th amendment is for search and seizure, which has absolutely nothing to do with surveillance. You can't deny that fact, and you also can't deny the fact that it has never been a breach of your constitutional rights to be watched. The breach typically occurs when action is taken because of that surveillance.
You have to have surveillance in order to obtain probable cause, and you have to have probable cause in order to stay in the lines of the 4th Amendment. What next, are the Democrats going to want probable cause in order to have probable cause?
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What next, are the Democrats going to want probable cause in order to have probable cause?
I see. You are one of those history revising partisans who assign names to others who have viewpoints to those opposite of the current official "talking points" you submit to. Thank you, but I prefer to have information digested and not regurgitated.
On its most basic level, this ruling effectively removes a part of the checks and balances that is built into government.
Your rational for why it is logical is quite rudimentary and flawed at best. In fact, it downright scares me.
I remember someone else who would agree with you, Sentaor Joseph Mcarthy. I suspect you are too young to know who that is or the...
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and if he thinks the 4th ammendment still holds any weight with the government he is sorely mistaken.
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đ
Reminds me of states like Geogria where there are cities known to pull people over on the highways and confiscate their property under "suspicion" of illegal activity. (Remember that story I posted)
Those same people have to return and fight tooth and nail for their property rights to be returned - but like the police say - not everyone comes back to fight and it's a good source of funding.
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i liked that boondocks episode where they were interrogating tom to confess for a crime he didnt commit.
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no they can't
you still have to be a suspect for a crime, and the cellular company still has to release the record - besides do you not understand that it does not actually give them your location? All they will know is you are in east chicago or you are in boise, idaho. It does not tell them exactly where you are at all points, only what area of the country you are calling from.
I don't know the exact radius of a cellular tower, but if it is anything similar to a radio tower, they are not really getting that much information as to your whereabouts by what tower your calls are being placed on.
And it is not like they are going to track every single person and watch over your shoulder all the time, if ou are afraid of that then put o...
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The radius is 2 miles. đ
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they do not need a warrant.
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I do believe most of the people here are paranoid and crazy. But it is rather easy to get these type of things. I work for a cell company. One of the employees phones was stolen. We got call records which show what cell site they originated from and who the call was placed to. Matched it up with the map, figured out where the guy lived/stayed and where he worked.
But yeah...it is easy to get these records. Some will say, "yeah it was easy because you work within the company." Sure, but all you have to do is know someone to get them really.
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relatively this decision is nothing, alone and if it was the only law of its kind nobody would raise an eyebrow, but coupled with the hundreds of anti privacy laws, the USA patriot act and the freaking top story nowadays about bush ordering the wire tapping on american citizens.
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it may be easy....but it should still be illegal and should not hold to you in court.
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bmoreDec 27, 2005, 1:05 PM
yeah i most certaintly care. what companies are participating in this program?
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Well first off i got nothing to worry about with that for a few reasons. 1. I dont plan on causing any trouble so there would be no reason for that to happen to me. 2. I'm canadian so i dont gotta worry about the super paranoid government of the US as much as most do. 3. The towers have a radius of coverage of 5 miles usually so they still got a huge area so not really a viable peice of evidence. (oh look he was 5 miles of the WTC on sept 11 so he's a terrorist. ya him and like a million other people) seriously...
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really, the laws they pass to infringe on rights really have no real practical purpose, which makes a lot of paranoid people wonder why they would even pass them to begin with, the ramifications of this will not come fully into play until this law is used in an abstract against someone. People who run websites get locked in prison by the department of homeland security just for questioning political processes. and it is not until they see what they are charged with are they amazed that that could even be applied to them. And you may be canadian, but if you think we do not own your government and we can do whatever we want with you you are terribly mistaken.
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we'll see how long you last without water...... on a further point how is it against your rights to track where you are without a warrent. it's not like they had to invade your house and put a homing beacon in you cell phone. they just gotta call the cell phone company who tracked that stuff before its just they needed a subpeona for the cell phone company now they don't. aww muffin.. you dont like it leave the phone at home if your gonna be a terrorist.
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