What I find most interesting, perhaps ironic, with this situation is that numerous representatives for Cingular were apprehensive about the new policies and questioned their fairness (and also pointed out the flaws within), as well as, representatives who championed for Cingular to slay the dreaded TDMA customers.

They were proud that they were able to provide substandard service and force unwarranted fees on to people whose contracts were now owned by Cingular (or should I say At&t?). Hell they even justified why people should have to pay these fees with little no thought as to the real reason why these fees were being assessed.

I will be interested to see how they spin this, as they will undoubtedly try.

I just wonder how they can...
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I can only say is Cingular made some big mistakes in customer relations. I think they are trying to correct them. The execs thought it was a good idea. To take the power to waive the 18.00 fee away from the reps and even customer service management. There are known areas that the network is being worked on. If a customer is in one of those areas and wants to cancel the account. We know would probably waive the ETF. That is on a case by case basis if we think it is a phone problem then they must make steps to correctthat phone problem. then if that does not work then we can talk about the ETF being waived.

i have talked to cingy cust service trying to help several customers get their fee waived because they were getting horrible coverage and it was only getting worse, (pre merger ATT custs) not a single one of them got waived and these are people who were complaining for months

also tried to help a buddy get his fee waived because he was getting deployed, even though the FCC says that cingy has to waive it they still refused, the guy paid the fee because he was tired of dealing with it

cingular is an arrogant company who doesn't care about it's own customers

The ETF policy just changed a few weeks ago.

How is $18 required to cover the cost of materials? What materials are we talking about here? You have a few sheets of paper and printer ink. $0.20 at most.

It is a revenue generator just like activation fees. Think of 50,000,0000 customers@$25 activation fee average. That is a sh!t ton of money why wouldn't a company charge that fee?

I'm not talking about activation fees. I'm talking about the upgrade fees. RUFF0238744320987 said that the $18 was to pay for materials used. I'm just curious what costs $18. I can't think of another service that charges extra to continue service (gas, electric, etc).

The SIM card alone.

Wait...why do upgrading customers need SIM cards? Don't existing customers already have active SIM cards? Do you think SIM cards for new customers actually cost $25? You are mistaken my friend.

The AT&T UPGRADING CUSTOMERS needed SIM cards because if they were migrating to Cingular they needed a Cingular SIM card. That's what I have been talking about all along.

So therefore, why was it so much to ask for an $18 upgrade fee? Oh right, it wasn't.

The problem wasn't on our side. It was for customers. Many of them were longterm and thought it was unfair to pay it. It sure was nice when they waived the $18 migration fee. But seriously there is no charge for a SIM card. It was just for revenue.

I thought that Cingular charged an $18 upgrade fee for all of it's customers...?

If that's the case, then why would an existing Cingular customer need to pay for a new SIM card?

If that's not the case, then this lawsuit has ground to stand on.

They do charge all upgrading customers the $18 upgrade fee.

The point is though, migrating AT&T customers should not be complaining about it because

1. they were the only upgrading customers that actually were costing Cingular money.
2. Cingular waived the $18 activation fee for those AT&T customers for quite some period of time.

Other than that, I do agree that the upgrade fee for Cingular customers is a bit absurd, but all other companies charge a similar fee as well.

I've worked for two cell phone carriers. Neither charged an upgrade fee. So no, not al other companies charge a similar fee.


It is not the AT&T customer's fault that it is costing Cingular extra money to upgrade them. Cingular should have realized that before they bought out AT&T. The AT&T customers should be treated the same as any other customer in Cingular's customer base. I think that they are (but I don't have experience with either company so I don't know for sure), and I agree that they shouldn't complain if they're treated the same as everybody else. However, if AT&T didn't charge upgrade fees when it existed, I can understand why they would be upset. Frankly, I probably would have changed companies over it....but that's ...
(continues)

That's exactly the point. They are being treated no differently then any other Cingular customer, and they have to realize that they are part of the company of Cingular now, not AT&T Wireless. Afterall, everything was laid out in the contract they signed...all the clauses in case of a merger or buyout were in there and nothing was breached.

So these people resigned contracts when Cingular took over?

No, the clauses were in the AT&T contracts that they signed.

It was to the effect of IN CASE OF MERGER OR BUYOUT, and the specifics followed.

So, through the buyout Cingular also assumed responsibility of upholding the terms of service in those contracts. Of everything that was included in those clauses, Cingular breached none of them.

Hmm...

I'm not sure why these people are trying to sue.

Greed.

You're the greedy one, numbers.

Okay, explain that one to me.

RUFF wasn't enough. Nor was RUFF1. You were so greedy you had to add a million numbers to the end of your name.

lol

I'm sorry big numbers offend you. Math wasn't your thing?

I'm not offended. I'm just saying that you're greedy.

Okay, you do so.

Yeah, I am with you on that one. Upgrade fees are a joke. They should offer a bill credit to resign. RUFF0238744320987 doesn't wtf he is talking about.

Yeah, I'm not too sure I understand RUFF74329019293494873241623740987594281792837 423109871523 either.

Okay...there are FOUR numbers after my name. You act like I went overboard or something.

What? Sorry, I can't hear you over your numbers.

Leave Ruff alone, she is super nice. don't hate her because she works for Cingular and knows their policies better than you haters.

And Ruff, you did not go over board. You just told the truth, and they hate you for it.

Y'all haters need to get a life, and get a landline.

I'm a "he."

But thanks.

oh....sheet!! I am so sorry! I thought you were a girl...what planet am I on??????????

I don't hate RUFF, and I never claimed to know Cingular's policies.

The time a rep spends on you while in a store, the SIM card (which is itself a $25 deal when bought seperately), any pamphlets and whatever other paper is expended in the process, etc.

Companies do have to make money to pay their employees, you know.

The SIM card doesn't cost $25 dollars. Any third party dealer does not have to pay for SIM cards. You are retarted.

Go take a walk into a Cingular store and tell them you need a new SIM card.

Be ready to get out your wallet.

Ok, I understand that cingular charges $20-25 dollars for a SIM but the cost is $0.

So you honestly think that Cingular pays nothing for SIM cards?

Everything costs something.

Yes, they are paying "something" for the SIM cards, but not $25 dollars. If it cost our company $25 dollars to buy the SIM cards from cingular then they wouldnt allow us to discount them to $0 like we do. Cingular doesn't charge us any money to buy SIM cards.

Ruff, no one agrees with you. SIM cards cost nowhere near one dollar, let alone many dollars like you advocate. I don't know if you own Cingular, or Telephia or whatever, but the point is that this was dirty business. Why should a customer be liable for the cost of being transferred in a merger they had no control over. Not to mention worsened coverage, poor customer service from reps like you, and the run-around from day one.

-Because it was in their contract. The contract that they signed. There are transfer clauses written directly into them saying IN CASE OF A MERGER OR BUYOUT, yadda yadda yadda. It's an agreement. Cingular didn't break their end.

-Because it was fair. All existing Cingular customers had to pay $18 if they wanted to upgrade. Why should AT&T customers get special treatment just because their company was bought out?

-Because it was offered to be waived. AT&T customers were given the chance to upgrade without having to pay the $18. If the incentives Cingular offered them couldn't convince them, that is not Cingular's fault.

-Because AT&T customers were charged a similar fee. Albeit $15 as opposed to $18, when AT&T was a standalone compan...
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Cell phone companies make their money on the service, not on the upgrades and whatnot. That's also how they pay their employees. If that wasn't true, then I'm not sure why other companies wouldn't charge to upgrade existing customers.

Other companies? They do. Or at least they did the last time I checked.

You should check again. Both cell phone companies I've worked for haven't charged upgrade fees.

RUFF1415 said:
No, the $18 wasn't most definitely not to cover the cost of rebranding. Cingular took the hit on all the money spent toward rebranding.

The $18 service charge is a fee that every customer pays. New customers, customers wanting to upgrade, and yes...AT&T customers. It wasn't unfair to have to pay that fee, and Cingular even offered to waive it for migrating persons during a very long period.

The $18 is to cover the materials and whatever else is generally involved in the process of signing a contract.

I didn't know Cingular charged an upgrading fee. When I was with T-Mobile and upgraded, they never charged me any fees. Hmm, interesting.

I Work For STARBUCKS said:

RUFF1415 said:
No, the $18 wasn't most definitely not to cover the cost of rebranding. Cingular took the hit on all the money spent toward rebranding.

The $18 service charge is a fee that every customer pays. New customers, customers wanting to upgrade, and yes...AT&T customers. It wasn't unfair to have to pay that fee, and Cingular even offered to waive it for migrating persons during a very long period.

The $18 is to cover the materials and whatever else is generally involved in the process of signing a contract.

I didn't know Cingular charged an upgrading fee. When I was with T-Mobile and upgraded, they never charged me any fees. Hmm, interesting.

...
(continues)

And I am almost certain that Verizon once charged their upgrading customers a $15 upgrade fee.

Some say that isn't the case any longer, but I believe it was the 2004-2005 timeframe when they did it.

Who knows...

lol at what you said about T-Mobile (and you are right, of course!!!)

Honestly I don't care how much wireless companies charge people I ditched my contract and am now prepaid only. (Although I do have a fabulous landline deal from at&t) We prepaid customers get a flat rate and that's it. No BS, just a flat rate that'll never change. No contracts, no ETF should we decide to cancel. Now that is wireless for me.

I agree. It's a great way to go if you have a good deal on landline. The prices only ever seem to get better with PAYG.

PAYG has really improved since I first had it 3 years ago. Now we are getting more minutes and longer expiration dates. T-Mobile and Cingular's prepaid rates are very good.

The only problem is this makes no sence. For starters. All of AT&T customers run off of Cingulars origional towers and vice versa, there is absolutely no difference. They all can roam on selected Tmobile towers as well. Because they all use GSM (voice) and GPRS (data) Now, those two both are classified as running on TDMA deviding sent signals by time to allow for more users. The NEW generation they wish to roll out is called which runs more like internet and is much much faster. Also combining voice and data into one. Now heres the funny part. Only twenty cities in the entire courty are using CDMA right now, and the entire nation wont use it till about a year or two. And there are only three to six phones out that can use it and they are qui...
(continues)

I think he means the people in the lawsuit are making the same complaints as the people in those threads?

There are people in the news thread are saying the same thing too.

Those threads are about reps in 2005 who were talking about how we were going to force blue customers to migrate, charge them ETF's, and etc... what i was pointing out is that over a year later, that hasnt happened. Cingular hasnt forced every blue customer to migrate, and if they migrate we havent charged them the ETF, the people in the lawsuit are upset b/c their phone company got bought out and they dont like the new company as much b/c they dont give away as much free crap as ATT did ( i have yet to talk to an old ATT customer who didnt have at least 200 free bonus minutes on their plan) , while I understand their frustration, thats part of life in a capitalistic society, companies get bought, and things change... if you dont like it, w...
(continues)

I don't understand how you can say that considering there are people in these threads and in the news discussion thread that talk about how they were asked to pay a ETF fine and how they were switched from inexpensive plans with unlimited minutes to more expensive plans with a set amount of minutes among other issues.

You obviously know nothing about migrations, you simply read a couple of complaints by angry customers and assume you know how it works... am i right? Let me explain it to you, when Cingular aquired ATT, ATT customers could keep their plan/phones as long as they wanted, did you hear that, as long as they wanted. They ONLY time they had to migrate was if they wanted a new phone, whether their phone broke, was lost, or they simply wanted to upgrade, if they wanted to get a new phone thats when they had to switch to a new Cingular plan, no they werent charged an ETF, and yes, they couldnt keep their bajillion free minutes ATT had given them. But for any ATT customer that upgraded to Cingular after, i think it was Nov 05, the upgrade fee was wa...
(continues)

captainplooky said:
Probably by the fact that TDMA towers were decommissioned as TDMA facilities all across the country.

Could you name a few? I wanna hear it!

Where have you been? Under a rock?

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »

Just from a quick search.

The point is the TDMA is being overlayed and shutdown by GSM.

Cingular themselves are have stated TDMA is going offline in 2008. Do you honestly do not believe they haven't begun that process?

March 22, 2006
Cingular Wireless will shut off its analog TDMA cellular network in 2008 according to CEO Stan Sigman's keynote speech at TelecomNext. Even though the aging network still has two years of life, over 95% of Cingular voice traffic is already on the newer digital GSM network.

Cingular has been working on the

...
(continues)

and plooky, if you hadn't been such an ignorant bastard, you would know TDMA is being shut down BY THE FCC, so the spectrum can be redistributed for HSDPA and other forms of 3G

Of course it is going to be phased out. Let's say there's only 1% (which is not too far from the truth) TDMA customers in Atlanta. Do you think Cingular is not going to get rid of those towers??? Please, what is wrong with you? What's your hatred based on?

A few posts ago you were denying that TDMA towers were even being phased out.

The point is, the service was purposefully degradaded in order to force migration.

I await the results of the case.

Well, I'm sure if cingular continued to maintain the TDMA network up to its last day the customers would have been just as pissed off when their phones shut off.

oh, and you kinow this because you were part of the elite recon teams that were sent out to physically shut the facilities down right?

and if you go back and re-read his post, he says in no unsure terms that HIS SERVICE WAS FINE.

stop being a troll just to be a troll plooky. If cingular bothers you that much, just STFU and ignore them all together.

when something bothers me that i have no control over, i shut my ass up and don't pay any mind.

By all means accept the status quo willingly, for that is always the easy way out.

I read. You would be amazed to find out what you can learn by such a simple process.

mikeymancini said:
I personally used to work for AT&T. Service was good. Once Cingular took over there was that whole campaign to convert everyine to Cingular or as we knew it "Orange". We were strictly told not to sell any AT&T phone when we clearly had them in the stock room. This for customers who were on the AT&T $99 unlimited plan, people who lost or broke phone etc. Basically after all the B.S. with it I left the company and kept my At%T phone service. I live in a major city where I never had a problem with service. Gradually over the next 8 months , my service went to hell. I could no longer use my phone period where I was normally accustomed to. After hours of sitting on hold with Cingular and all there ex

...
(continues)

And for every one of those posts there are 200 customers who were completely satisfied and never had a complaint.

Your point?

Apparently the truth hurts judging by how unwilling you are to accept it and how willing you are to accept any reason to deny it.

LMAO!!!!! 20 million ATT customers that were bought by Cingular, yet you base your accusations on 20-30 posts by anonymous people on an online forum and a lawsuit by some people in California....hmmmm... my math is a little rusty, but to me it sounds like a majority of ATT customers have been ok with the merger. What do you say to all the other previous ATT customers who now enjoy their Cingular service? I'll be the first to admit that yes, there were some ATT customers who got a raw deal b/c Cingular wasnt expanding their TDMA service, but a vast majority had a seamless transition to the Cingular side. Now I'm not dismissing their plight, but anytime their is a merger of that size, you're not going to be able to please 100% of your custo...
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Sorry, for every one there is 1,000,000 customers who are happy with their service.

Thanks dromant for helping me with my math 🙂

texaswireless said:
Sorry, for every one there is 1,000,000 customers who are happy with their service.

Thanks dromant for helping me with my math 🙂

Provide a link or some type of proof backing up your numbers or STFU! 🤨

He can't.

I remember asking about Cingular downloads before and he gave answers that directly contradicted the Cingular website.

When confronted about it, he tried to say he didn't have to know what he was talking about because it wasn't his website and other petty arguments like that.

I learned then that I need to wear waders and a noseplug when in his area.

That was like a year ago. I don't know is more surprising, you remembering it or you getting it wrong again.

What I said was I had the literature in my store to show the costs. Since I do not sell off the internet it is not my obligation to know where the terms and conditions are located online. You found that unacceptable and I invited you to my store to view said terms and conditions. To date I believe you have refused unless you came in disguise (although I think I would have noticed a ginat pooky bear and Odie walking into my store).

Well, lets see. There have been about 20 posters on here who have complained about problems with significant overall service degredation. Not accounting for how many just had old worn out equipment, and 20 million ATTWS customers, that is a rough figure of 1,000,000 happy for every 1 complaint about service degredation.

But I know that won't make you happy.

I would like to take this moment to point out that most carriers have the one and two year contract agreements, ATT didnt, Cingular did, and when they merged. ATT customers got mad.

Then, to top all that off, Cingular customers saw that, and got mad because they never had that.