I will be out in Arkansas to actually start explaining to Alltell employees how everything is going to start off.


I can not reveal much to you due to the EDA and confidentiality but I will say that there are some good alltell reps that will be compensated for the transistion very very well. The gripes you guys have are understandable when it comes to terms of conditions and contract status, but VZW will make it easy for you to start selling the brand....because you have been doing that basically all along, same CDMA network, Same type of phones, besides the mycircle you have been dealing with the same plans and same WFG we have been using for years.



As for VZW being in 30 billion in debt, that couldnt be further from the truth....
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Wow, did you read the paragraph that states when you open your mouth your reputation is on the line? You must realize that the deal has not even closed yet, and won't until end of 2008 at the earliest?

Nobody can predict what is going to happen. The FCC and the DOJ both said the did not see any major anti-trust issues, however divestitures are inevitable. In some markets Alltel and VZW are the only carriers. There is no way they are going to let VZW be the only carrier in those markets , pending what you say "roaming agreements will satisfy both the DOJ and the FCC". Get real!

As for the VZW debt- $35,544,960,098 released by Verizon! $32,122,232,094 before interest.

http://investor.verizon.com/income/outstanding_debt. ... »

You'd b...
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rmtp22: were does it show anything for vzw moneys in your link. what you linked to was verizon only income. no verizonwireless income included.

Umm... the artical does not reffer to income once. It strictly talks about debt. In fact it shows debt per market.

I think you should read it again.

36.7 billion in debt acording to the NYTimes.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9403E ... »


Just like in the previous article once the loan matures, the interest is added on. Which is exactly what it is explaining.

And this one might help as well.

VZW is owned by 55% VZC and 45% Vodafone.

http://investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artse ... »

The bottom line is nobody has yet to dispute that VZW is not in debt.

well all it shows is that verizon land line is in debt. not wireless that has been making money. and has money of itss own to buy alltel. all you showed was verizons debt.not vzw.

wrong again. Please read all post and articles.

Please don't be blind to accept it. Its just the facts.


VZW and VZC are both in debt. Most all of your major carriers are.

then show actual vzw info.since vzw is private company.aka no stocks being sold.

Your driven me nuts here Mitchell....your not paying attention nor are you reading all of the articles.

"Verizon Wireless' increased debt will delay the resumption of dividend payments to its co-owners until 2012, at least two years longer than projected. That may reignite calls from Vodafone shareholders for the world's top wireless firm by revenue to sell its stake in the joint venture, some analysts said."



http://investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artse ... »

Straight from the third article I posted for you.

Don't lie to yourself or try to fool anybody.

So far I have backed everything with proof and recent articles.

Do you have anything proving what you claim?

Please go back and read th...
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thbarnes said:
I am 99% confident that the SEC, FTC, and FCC will mandate that Verizon sell off towers, stores and spectrum to competitors in areas where Verizon and Alltel are the only two carriers.

You should have listened to the other 1%. They can not mandate this, we only have to agree to roaming propositions and thats only when it shows a upside for the company who owns it.

Facts IamtheGodfather! You must support this by facts! The FCC and DOJ said that there will be divestitures.

Mr. Sales Professional please support your post by facts. Nobody cares about your personal opinion. You are not going to be a trainer in Arkansas. You have made yourself out to be that Mr. Know-it-all that nobody likes.

You must support such allegations with facts and research, not guessing!

IamTheGodfather said:
You should have listened to the other 1%. They can not mandate this, we only have to agree to roaming propositions and thats only when it shows a upside for the company who owns it.

Tell me if I'm wrong but isn't VZW having to sell off some of the Unicel markets?? PER the DOJ and such! I guess they can mandate it...at least according to the first sentence
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080610/tc_pcworld/ ... »

Sprint is only in the eastern part of the state. The have added 9 towers in the mid-northeast area.... but they are not in the western side.

Where did you hear about ATT coming in? Do you have proof or just rumors that you heard?

Don't you think Alltel A side will be divested?

What makes you think the FCC & the DOJ will let them keep both the A and the B side of the CDMA network in SD?

And yes when we moved in here and took over CellOne all existing plans were grandfathered in. You could renew, but once you added a line you were required to change over to an Alltel plan.

Again, make sure you read the first post........

I've researched your previous post to see what your about Verizon123....and it appears you are referring to the eastern side of the state. Is this true?

Suffice to say that your spelling and grammatical errors are there in your original post, and in your reply to mine. Let's focus on your analysis, however, because that is where the true contention lies.

Your statement of Verizon's debt is valid but your conclusions that you draw from it are not. Much of Verizon's current debt was obtained in last year with the 9 billion dollar purchase of 700 MHz spectrum and the 25+ billion purchase of Alltel. Of that debt, two thirds is being spent on immediate infrastructure (growth), that is, customers and existing equipment. These play heavily into Verizon's financial plan.

Take a look at the pdf found in this thread to see where I'm going here. https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php ?...
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Ok.. I went back and read my first post and found a couple of grammar errors. They were the ones my English teachers would find and I wouldn't.

You state that most of VZW's debt comes from the Alltel purchase. They are not going to exchange the debt until the deal closes, right?

Vodafone did bailout VZW when it came to the end of the 700MHz auction. They had something like 4 days to come up with the money and Vodafone came through for them. I went back to look for the article, but came up short.

Alltel used to have a brand promise of being debt free. In fact I still have literature that advertises; My Circle and Debt Free on them. It was not on there very long as they shortly acquired something around 2 billion and was sitting on ...
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I would have to sift through some financial reports to find an answer to your debt question, but it will take a little time, mostly due to motivational issues.

I don't know that Verizon will ever be debt free because it can cheaper to finance debt than to pay out of pocket for expenses. Debt is really only one part of a much larger picture when it comes to the overall financial strength of a company, so I would not use that in my advertising as a publicly traded cell phone company. A privately held company, such as Alltel, would find value in that statement, especially to their employees.

2-3 years to pay off the debt? Maybe, depending upon how agressive they want to be. Verizon has that 700Mhz rollout to consider. They also may c...
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When one of Alltel's brand promise was , "Debt Free". They were publicly traded and doing very good, somewhere around $63-$67 per share.

So the conclusion that I am getting, yes VZW is in debt, but it is not a great stand point to debate. If so, I'm good with that.

Any thing to add?

No, I think that about wraps it up.

im guessing it will be like here in east texas when ATT got bought out by Cingular...They owned 67% of the business and we were split 3 ways between Alltel, Cellular One by Dobson and then the other third was just left with Cingular. I am seeing this happening again in these rural areas, I have been a store manager for Alltel for over a year and have been with the company in both direct and indirect for over 4, granted that is not a long time but I do know what my bosses are telling me and that seems to be the way it is falling once again at least in this area...

Keep in mind VZW guys before you go open your reputation, VZW is over 30 billion in debt and brings in 47 Billion in revenue. Their obviously spending more money then they make. Yea I know monies are cheap and with big brother (Vodafone) giving you dollars to make it happen. Has one of you said gee thanks Vodafone or do you really believe that business is that good. Thats what you need to think about next time your by yourself in the car, would this really be happening this way without Vodafone? But overall it has to be a great year to be on the VZW team.
well by the last article you put up. vzw was only in debt of maybe 16 billion. they only have to put up 5.9 billion and assume 22.2 billion.so with those amounts,vzw was only in debt for...
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Mitchell1- Welcome back. Are you coinciding your original arguments that VZW is not in debt?
Yes they had to put up 5.9 in cash for the books and assume 22.2 billion in debt, which was acquired when TPG initially purchased Alltel last year. TPG made 5.9 billion for one year of work, not bad. If you have read the original post you'll already know. I am not going to get into the breakdown again.

How much of that was from recent buys? I don't know I am not the one defending VZW - you are, so you can explain away why their in debt, I don't need too.

At a 45% stake, Vodafone would not have a say in purchases, just influence. Look at it this way- If Pizza Hut Corp. owns 51% or more of the market/state. Corp. gets to determine what tv com...
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how long do you think it will take vzw to pay off its debt.

VZW is calling for a 2-3 year plan.

🙄

revenue = pay
debt = spenditure

so vzw MAKES 47B and owes ~30B
so thats a ~17B GAIN each year. so how are they losing money?? or spending more than they make??

yea they spent a good amount of money recently. but they still make enough to offset that spenditure

47B - 77B = -30B
If you spend more you will create debt. Otherwise they have a positive balance.

where did the 77B come from??

was never mentioned in the first post

Sorry I expected you to be able to add and subtract.

47 billion - z = -30 billion.

What does the variable "z" equal?

When you get out your calculator notice the
"-" in front of the 30 billion. It makes a difference when doing this type of math.

you said they make 47b a yea and are 30b in debt. nowhere does that mean they spend 77b a year. recently they spent a lot of money on both the 700mhz auction and acquring alltel, but that doesnt mean they spend 77b every year or anythign close to that.

I am not debating what they spend, you are. You are the one why wants to justify why they are in debt, not me.

If you want to carry on this debate further, you must start suppling articles that support your arguments.

PS. Vodafone loaned them the money for the 700MHz spectrum.

Please follow all post trees to see supporting documents.

I think it is because we are having a hard time with the math. Not sure how you are doing it and I have done it several ways. You said they make $47billion but spend $30billion. That totals $77billion. But that is not what is spent because they made $47billion. If they made that and spent $30billion. then it looks like this:

$47billion made
-$30billion spent
=$17billion profit

Where is the loss? Anytime a company takes in more than what was spent, they don't take a loss. They make money as I showed above.

That is what we are having a hard time with.

IF they are $30billion in debt, then the first year they bring in $47billion, they are out of debt. 47 is a larger number than 30.

What you are doing is doing it like t...
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I don't think you read the original post. I think you drew a conclusion from what somebody else has read.

I never stated anything about spending 30 billion, you came to that.

I showed the first number and the end number.

Like this-

47b - z = -30b again notice the negitave sign in front of the 30, it will make a difference. z = spending. I never populated the z, it should be pretty easy to come to a result

If you make $20per hour and are over drawn $10 at the bank. After the first hour of work you put $10 in your gas tank and $10 for lunch, your still in debt. Simply because you are spending more than you make.

Phoneguy I think once you have read the post for yourself, you'll see this.

Actually what you did say was vzw was 30 billion in debt and brought in 47 billion in revenue and you went on to say they were spending more than they made which by the equations that have been presented to you more than once indicate that vzw is still making money and not losing.

How does that show profit? You too are trying to draw conclusion inn correctly. Your trying to show profit from spending. I don't think you can. Spending is a variable that helps determine profit. The bottom line is that profit is not being debated, debt is.

O did read the original post. Please see the bellow taken from the orginal post:

"Alltel Employees' & Agents. VZW trolls welcome! by rmtp22 Jun 12, 2008, 2:53 PM

Keep in mind VZW guys before you go open your reputation, VZW is over 30 billion in debt and brings in 47 Billion in revenue. Their obviously spending more money then they make. Yea I know monies are cheap and with big brother (Vodafone) giving you dollars to make it happen. Has one of you said gee thanks Vodafone or do you really believe that business is that good. Thats what you need to think about next time your by yourself in the car, would this really be happening this way without Vodafone? But overall it has to be a great year to be on the VZW team."

Umm..... good job! That paragraph makes perfect sense to me. 😲

Rmtp22 you did make a mistake with the math there its ok to admit a mistake. I don't think liquidfire is trying to argue any debt with you he is simply stating that u said 47 billion in rev and 30 billion in debt that still leaves vzw looking good. I don't think it would have been an issue if you didn't get on that sprint guy. What you said did not make sense.

umm.... do the math I think you will find that I did not make a mistake.

47 in rev. and 30 bill in debt could only mean one thing.

I did my fair share of research before I posted a thread of that length.

My conclusions make perfect sense.

I guess you can't admit your wrong and don't understand debt and revenue. Revenue is the amount of money a company makes, its like the money you get to keep in your paycheck...debt is like when you pay your cellphone bill you owe them money. So if they take in 47 in revenue meaning you make that kind of like your paycheck but they owe 30 like your cellphone bill you only have 17 billion left over for whatever else you want. I think people are uncertain that you understand this. Do you have some other meaning? I hope this helps.

Debt minus revenue does not equal profit.

You are leaving out expenses.

Revenue-expenses=profit

And when it looks like this....

47b - z = -30 z=spending/expenses

VZW is spending more money than they are bringing in. Unless you can prove that VZW makes more than they spend, then they have debt..


I think I am uncertain that you understand this.

Alls I'm saying is from the numbers givin there is nothing to say they are spending more than they are making. You have said they are but have givin no evidence to the fact. For all you know vzw's expebses may be 4 billion a year still leaving them with 13 billion profit.

Then how come they have never been debt free? If they are not spending more than they are making, at some point they should be debt free, but are not.

Is it hard for you to grasp that a company as big as VZW is in debt? You keep implying that they have enough money to pay all of their expense and and become debt free all in the same year. I have shown the evidence and links in previous tree post and am not going to get them again. You can go look at them they are in the first couple of trees. But they show years and years of 30+ billion in debt.

If you would like to debate profit and what they are spending their money on, then you need to supply evidence supporting your arguments. You have the burden of proof on your shoulders. My ar...
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I got to be honest with you I can't keep this up with you any longer. You obviously get off on jerking people around and frankly I've had it. 🙂

I have to be honest with you, your posted have not brought any new arguments.

All you have is speculated and not proven.

Keep up with me? You posted 3 post last night, I responded to your 3 post. We exchanged 2 post last night. This morning my I wake up an you've posted away again.

I'm just supporting what I originally posted. What's your excuse? 😲

HAHA.... I went and looked at your profile and you posted 16 times yesterday in post that werent even in the ones you and I have exchanged. Wow!

I can't hang with you. Your saying one thing and doing another. You had over 20 post yesterday!

Obsess much?

I was just fighting fire with fire.

Are you conceding the arguments?
😁
Your last two post are not relivent.

Alls I'm saying is from the numbers givin there is nothing to say they are spending more than they are making. You have said they are but have givin no evidence to the fact. For all you know vzw's expebses maybe 4 billion a year still leaving them with 13 billion profit.

I am not speculating profit you are. You should read all of the post trees starting from the top. I have supplied plenty of evidence to show debt and revenue. And because I can do third grade math the conclusion was easier to draw from then most.

This guy is unbelievable, he cannot admit when he is wrong the whole reason this post is under huh? Is the person is not talking about every tree post, we are not talking about every tree post forget every tree post. We are talking about your original post your original. Now I have come to a conclusion, either you cannot admit your wrong, you are jerking me around or your thick headed---which one! Ohh yaa and I'm glad you can do third grade math, but are you smarter than a fourth grader!!!!

Now you want to make it personal?

How hard is it to grasp your little brain around an equation like this-

47b - z = -30b z= expenses/spending.

Do you have a credit card? And have you ever received a pay check that is bigger than the balance owed on the cc? But you had other bills to pay or had rent or a mortgage to pay? And the CC balance carried over to the next month or year?

Then you my friend should understand , how one can bring in more money then they are in debt. But have to pay employees and other major operating expenses and still remain in debt.


You can't just jump into a debate after it has been going on for a while. You have read debates when they were already at or close to being dead. Pretty easy to become on...
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Its funny how Verizon is starting to "test" the my circle idea with some of their business accounts - Alltel's my circle will stay - Verizon is in the process of upgrading their computer systems for the merger - Of course Alltel customers have already been promised the circle will stay under the terms of the contract

I wouldn't call that a test. And it isn't a My Circle Plan it is just the ability to call up to 5 LANDLINES unlimited for business which is something both AT&T and Sprint already offer. Sounds more like VZW is just trying to be competitive. But sure you can pretend it is a My Circle test.

Welll it sure does look like a mycirlce test, and if vzw does remove the Mycirlce or any part of the contracts we have signed it allows us to leave them free and clear. something i doubt VZW would like very much.


Will

I doubt you know about take overs. But that is ok I can help you understand.

See what VZW will do is called "Grandfathering" the plans of the Alltel customers. Meaning as long as they do not want a VZW phone or Plan then they will get to keep their existing plan offering them the same coverage and rates they had before for the duration of their existing contract.

Meaning when their contracts expire and they want to update their plans or phones or when they break their phone they will be migrated over to a VZW phone and plan. This does not break the contract the customer signed and is just what like Cingular did when they bought MCI Worldcom or what AT&T did when they purchased parts of Cellular One and Dobson Cellular. And just like w...
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