Didn't say it wasn't true, just that there is more reliable comparative data that disagrees.

JD Power, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't do drive tests on the networks. Telephia, on the other hand, does. I would be more inclined to take the word of someone who has actually DRIVEN the network than someone who is basically publishing hearsay.

phonepimp3376 said:
Didn't say it wasn't true, just that there is more reliable comparative data that disagrees.

JD Power, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't do drive tests on the networks. Telephia, on the other hand, does. I would be more inclined to take the word of someone who has actually DRIVEN the network than someone who is basically publishing hearsay.

So you're saying what JD Power publishes is hearsay? That's a little difficult for me (or, I would hope anyone) to swallow outright.

JD Power takes surveys...they actually TEST nothing that I'm aware of.

They get the opinions of other people. Have they DRIVEN all the networks? Nationwide? NO. So how can they make such a claim?

Telephia, who actually DRIVE TESTS all 6 national networks, consistently rates Cingular #1 GSM network in most major markets, and #1 overall network in quite a few. Just a month or so ago, Telephia ranked Cingular #1 overall in CT, Western Massachusetts, and a few other NE regions. Yet Cingular ranks near the BOTTOM according to JD Power? Makes no sense to me.

When JD Power can show me its drive tests, then maybe I'll buy it. But as far as I know it's all opinion polls, which in the end are all hearsay.

Cingular does a greater portion of the western states a dis-service. If you live in Idaho, Montana, or Oregon Cingular does not service most of the turf. In most of these areas you can not even find a Cingular contact source. So to imply that Cingular rates low in the western states is not all that far from the truth. Cingular may claim to provide coverage, but unless you are simply roaming through the area, and have an account elsewhere, Cingular does not exist.

They do not want to service TDMA customers. This is very disappointing. I am currently living in central Idaho but have to travel to Neveda on business. This means I have to use TDMA on Edge Wireless- but Cingular will only support GSM- in the cities.

When I lived i...
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When is the last time you used GSM service on Cingular? Since almost all of our TDMA coverage has been converted to GSM, I fail to see how TDMA is outperforming GSM. I have customers who travel extensively in the US for business, and know that Vegas performs well on GSM. If you could provide me with cities or Zip codes where you feel you might have a problem, I can check it out for coverage and let you know the results.

We will be rolling out GSM in Idaho and Montana in September.

As for Las Vegas, most of that area is high coverage, as are most major cities in Nevada.

Also, with your GAIT phone you were able to access the entire network(analog, TDMA and GSM) as opposed to just the digital coverage.

Whoa, wait a minute here. I thought Cingular was all GSM. You keep pumping that sunlight at us that Cingular is all digital GSM. How is this possible that you don't have it there? Might there be other areas also?

Just offering up what I know for this thread...Cingular is headed towards GSM-only, true. I have a TDMA/Analog plan, and I have an aunt with an oooollllldddd analog-only plan/phone that miraculously still works, somehow.

Cingular and all other carriers will "support" the analog standard until approx 2008 (FCC regulations) but aren't required to offer new phones that incorporate it.

Hope that helps some, didn't mean to get in the middle of or create an argument. 😁

Those are NEW markets, dakz... we're not there yet.

But wait a minute PP, you keep shoving it down my throat all the time that Cingular is ALL digital GSM. Were you stretching the truth again?

Do you understand the meaning of NEW market? It means there is nothing there yet.

Our main network is all GSM. We maintain some analog and TDMA, but it is mostly for GAIT and prepaid. It is hardly used, and is not the network we advertise. The network you see us advertising is our ALL GSM network.

GAIT is a specialty plan, and uses all thre \e types of towers we own. These are being turned back as GSM network size increases. GAIT also requires special handsets.

SO that network, and the GSM network are two separate entities. Get it now? When a customer has a GSM handset (all but two that we sell are GSM only) They cannot access the GAIT network. So what the majority of our customers buy is ALL DIGITAL. GAIT is no longer sold i most...
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The last time I checked with AT&T they had a large customer base with TDMA services... many who do not want to switch to GSM. Last year new TDMA based phones were still being offered even in the cities.

Cingular is squeezing out TDMA by refusing to sale TDMA phones to new customers, but this clearly does not mean that TDMA is not out there.

GAIT phones are indeed the exception to the rule, one I like a great deal.

Is it possible that the statistics and data you are looking at is based on metropolitan data? TDMA users in rural America are not a new market and are most definitely a force to be reckoned with when it comes to continuing to provide TDMA services.

TDMA customers are not a new market where nothing exist yet. G...
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HAHAHAHA! Busted again PP, and this time by your own people!

What I am saying here is that Cingular has no service in those markets...GSM, TDMA or otherwise, that is NATIVE coverage. So those will be NEW markets for us. SO just how am I busted?

Because you said Cingular is all GSM digital and have no analog. You said exactly that, not anything about new markets no no no. That my friend is how you are busted. You were wrong wrong wrong because Cingular does STILL have analog service in areas just like VZW does. Do you seriously think that VZW is still adding analog towers? DUH! All carriers are going to all digital in new markets.

Nice backpedaling. Want me to go look up the many posts you made stating this and link them?

We don't in our GSM network. I have stated many times that we have analog and TDMA on our GAIT network. GAIT is NOT part of the GSM network, but uses GSM in ADDITION to AMPS and TDMA. Our GSM network IS all digital, and is the only network sold in most markets. GAIT is a specialty plan. I think I have stated all this before.

GAIT is a separate network, and requires special handsets to be used. We sell all digital service, unlike VZW. We do however have a separate plan which includes TDMA/AMPS for those who want it. So when I say that we have no analog, I speak the truth for the majority of our customers, as GAIT is an insignificant number of our sales available in very few places, where VZW uses analog roaming in almost ALL plans.

Because VZW also has the brains to realize that having the additional coverage provided by analog towers in the remaining small areas of doing so benefits our customers in being able to do the one thing a cell phone is truely meant to do. Make a call or receive a call when you need it, where you need it. So let me make 100% sure you realize what kind of ammo you are giving me here for you when you try to use this crap against me again. If you go off the GSM network(ala all digital), your phone does not work. How does this benefit a customer?

Because you all act like there can't be GSM in BFE, and there IS.

Our coverage is damn near as large as your digital and analog COMBINED, folks. And will EXCEED your coverage once ATTWS is closed on.

you have coverage in 97 of the top 100 markets. We will be in all 100. See where your logic fails? If you have digital coverage where people make calls, you don't NEED analog.

I have yet to have a customer that was in need of signal that didn't get it. I always find out where my customers travel. If they NEED GAIT, they GET GAIT. If they don't, they go GSM. Why is this difficult for you?

It's like this. Coverage is not restricted to those top 100 markets you realize. They are just that, the top 100 markets in the U.S. There are lots of other markets out there besides just those 100. Not only that, by why segragate your customers instead of letting them use it all? That's kind of dumb in my opinion unless it has more to do with your network and it's limitations than you are admitting. OR if it is the handset manufacturer's limitations, then you have even more problems than you are letting the populace know about.

VZW may not have the coverage in the top 100 markets like Cingular will have once the merger is completed, but neither do you right now, that is still down the road yet. You still have that merger to complete, an...
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We are not restricted to the top 100 markets either, but that is the measuring stick most advertising uses, and most carriers use when comparing coverage as well.

Why segregate? Remember our philosophy: Fits you best. For people who don't need analog roaming, why should they pay extra for it? Ever notice the difference between our GSM Nation pricing and VZW's pricing on their NAtion products with analog? That's because it is more expensive to roam on analog, so the pricing has to be adjusted to reflect that. By offering an all digital product to people who need just digital, and could care less about the signal in BFE, we can keep costs down for the customer. If we have someone who needs coverage in BFE, then we supply that as well, and t...
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VZW went through those merger pains already. Now you get to go through them again, it isn't going to be as easy as you think. Always expect the worst so you don't get disappointed.

I was using the maps as a example.

No, analog roaming is NOT the cause of higher pricing. Higher pricing is based upon alot of factors not just a single factor for a small area of our coverage. You make it sound like VZW analog roaming is all over the place. Sorry to tell you this, but there are very few areas of it, and those are mostly in desert areas or out in extended BFE because I used to live in BFE and even there we had VZW digital signal. My point is that Cingular breaks it up into 2 different pricing structures while we classify it all in 1, somethi...
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Here's my question: If I have no need for analog, why should I pay for it?

I never said we 'bundle everything into one' I said everything works everywhere, something VZW cannot claim, because most digital features don't work on analog. A great deal of VZW's coverage in New England is analog as well, not just desert and BFE. A great deal of Maine and Vermont are pretty much all analog, for example.

Most of Vermont and Maine are Extended Network. Now around Augusta in Maine, Concord VT and Manchester VT we have lots of VZW digital coverage. In VT there is Extended Network Analog in the middle of the state, but once you get up near Montpelier and Rutland you see VZW Digital signal again. When looking at RI, MA, NY, NJ, and PA I see alot of digital coverage and almost no Extended Network or Analog meaning we have lots of coverage in those areas, so again I say when in far out BFE you may pick it up, but in most areas you will not.

hey phone pimp... just to let ya know bro, the nationwide rollout is already done. 4 months ahead of schedule. 😁 Cingular is Totaly GSM now. oh, and....

Since 1968, J.D. Power and Associates has been conducting quality and customer satisfaction research based on survey responses from millions of consumers worldwide. We do not rely on "expert opinion." Our product and service rankings in no way reflect the opinions or preferences of the firm, and we do not review, judge or test products and services ourselves.

visit jdpower.com to confirm that quote.

They test nothing. They bug people at malls. I seriously doubt they have a subscriber list to call actual customers. So, all they do is ask the general public about THEIR opinion on t...
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yeah, the only thing I remember about the companies are that nerdy guy in the VZW jumpsuit: "Can you hear me now?....GOOD!" And the hot chick dancin around to "867-5309 Jenny" (Love that song!!!)

OH YEAH, and those triplets....GOD they get on my nerves!!!!!!!!!!!!

😈

I know the rollout is complete, buddy. Have stated that many times here.

Please post the link to this Telephia report. I have looked at their site numerous times, and the only thing that even looks like a report was done in 2002.

Telephia is a monthly subscriber service. Ask your manager or area manager... he has access to it. That's how I get it. Any manager worth a damn can access it.

That's like saying if you don't subscribe to Reader's Digest you aren't a good person.........Come on man, post something we can see and verify, not just some company blowing smoke to make some money.

phonepimp3376 said:
JD Power takes surveys...they actually TEST nothing that I'm aware of.

They get the opinions of other people. Have they DRIVEN all the networks? Nationwide? NO. So how can they make such a claim?

Telephia, who actually DRIVE TESTS all 6 national networks, consistently rates Cingular #1 GSM network in most major markets, and #1 overall network in quite a few. Just a month or so ago, Telephia ranked Cingular #1 overall in CT, Western Massachusetts, and a few other NE regions. Yet Cingular ranks near the BOTTOM according to JD Power? Makes no sense to me.

When JD Power can show me its drive tests, then maybe I'll buy it. But as far as I know it's all opinion polls, which in the end are all hearsa

...
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21,700 people out of 100 million US wireless users. Wow, that scares me.

So it's hearsay if JD powers publishes the opinions of subcribers, but Biblical prophecy when you state the opinions of the people you deal with?

lilgabe1 said:
So it's hearsay if JD powers publishes the opinions of subcribers, but Biblical prophecy when you state the opinions of the people you deal with?

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

The 'opinions' of the people I deal with are measured by machines designed to test networks, lilgage.

i believe JD Powers survey. they studied a company in transition from tdma to gsm. i would not expect a company to be perfect or close to it when going through transition of such magnitude. it's hard to get csr on the same page in different regions; i know what they go through because i work in dsl maintenance and no one is on the same page. sbc west(formally know as pac bell)had to create a seperate company to offer data serivices called asi, in the beginning it was hell. learning new systems and providing excellent custmer seervice is almost impossibe during transition.i have dealt with csr service with cingular and they could be a pain. let's wait for the transition to gsm complete and the aquisition of att to take its course no matter wh...
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So based on what you and JD Powers are saying, if I get 1 person in this forum to say they like Cingular, we become number 1. How stupid is that? That's maybe 1% of the people that use this forum overall, and represents a larger sample than JD Power used.

Let's do the math here:

100 million total, 21700 surveyed = 0.0217%

What a huge number! :sarcasm:

This is what you are basing your claims on. But realize that the American public has NO IDEA how many people were surveyed, or how large the total pool could be.

So to make the same point I have been making all along... JD Power rewards on opinion, and uses ridiculously small groups to do so. This is not empirical data. WHy not do a survey that reflects at LEAST 10%? That would ...
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Let's do the math here:

100 million total, 21700 surveyed = 0.0217%

What a huge number! :sarcasm:

This is what you are basing your claims on. But realize that the American public has NO IDEA how many people were surveyed, or how large the total pool could be.

So to make the same point I have been making all along... JD Power rewards on opinion, and uses ridiculously small groups to do so. This is not empirical data. WHy not do a survey that reflects at LEAST 10%? That would be much more believable.

in stats you only need to have a small portion of the total data (a "sample" as it were) to fairly accurately guage the effectiveness of a statistical problem:

The margin of error in a sample = 1 div ...
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when i said

Note that sample size does not effect margin of error.

I meant the whole population, meaning it could have been 21700 out of 2 billion people (or 21701)and the result would have been the same.

Me? I take everything in the industry with a grain of salt (mind you, in some cases, a VERY LARGE GRAIN).

No company's coverage/services are perfect, I just know my phone has worked everywhere I have gone with it(Moto V400). I have gone from Hong Kong to the Bahamas, California to New York and from Pennsylvania to Florida. I have never had a problem. Was the service perfect, no but I could always make/recieve calls, my internet work...so I have no complaints. The most I have had to do was powercycle my phone in some areas but that took care of the problem.

If that was supposed to be a shot at Cingular and AT&T for their "below average" scores, you have to think about it in a different perspective than you are. I applaud both Cingular and AT&T for obtaining scores even THAT high, considering the time frame that they have integrated and converted their networks to GSM. Cingular had just finished their entire GSM overlay, let's say, 4 months prior to the release of this report. You cannot deny that these scores are surprisingly high for a company who hasn't even been operating their current network for half of a year. Although both companies showed below average scores for every region, they were not horribly lower. And I'm sure that their results are above average in comparison to what othe...
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I do business in gainesville, Florida (zip code 32614) and in Suffolk county, New York (zip code 11706), and yes I switch from ATTWS to Verizon. ATTWS s**k*d the big one. This "full shot article" may finally keep the Cingular and Attws staff "at bay".
If you keep on telling yourself that ATTWS and Cingular are great enough times to yourself, you may end up believing it.
Facts are facts, accept it and get over yourself.
GSM is NOT that good, TDMA was better, I do NOT have the time to wait for GSM to improve, time is money. The time is now, not 2 years from now.

T-mobile is GSM and they scored high.

Hey, no problem. Glad to help. I think I'm doing this wrong though. Nobody responds to concise posts like that, it looks like. They just ignore them and respond to less concise ones so they can try and tear holes in arguments that someone else's concise argument sealed up tight. 🤣