12 years exclusive AT&T/Cingular Dealer and the end is near!
I have been an Exclusive dealer for almost 12 years for AT&T/Cingular. I was a top dealer in my state for 5 or six years. I have seen alot of mistakes made through these years, but what was handed down on 11/1/05 may as well be the worst decision by a CEO since C. Michael Armstrong screwed up AT&T in the late 90's. Cingular will abandon ALL Indirect Dealers, whether exclusive or not, as of 12/31/05. This is at least 60% of their new activation base. Only the Exclusive Preferred Agents are remaining. In my state there are two that I know of, and only one in the southern half of my state with 3 stores. That coupled with the two corporates is five. Granted, 200+ dealers is too much, but 5 is a gross underestimate. None of which have many that u...
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even though that is f'ed up its a step in the right direction for all corporate retail employees. indirects have a high churn rate and usually slam the customers with features and mess bills up then direct them to retail stores to fix there problems knowing damn well they are the cause of it. not saying you personally but as a overall statement. not only that but i think that the comissions paid to the indirect are way to high. when a dealer can afford to give away a 400.00 phone for free and make the money back on the commission that usually always undercuts a corporate stores price thats a slap in the face. not the dealers fault this happens but a sign that cingular is paying top dollar to the wrong people.
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On the other hand, to sum up, it puts all the schmeckels in Cingy's pockets. Even the deal they signed with Radio Shack, I'm sure, benefits Cingy as much as it benefits RS. It's easier to undercut or de-mote someone (sales rep-store level) who works for you than an independent...
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I dont know where you get your information from, but I would check your figures. What you claim WAS true 3 or 4 years ago but certainly not now. Our commission is so bad we had to start selling through the BAC. Its been lowered by Cingular 3 times this year alone; 70% from a year ago! On a 39.99 plan we get $100.00. This means if we match Cingular corporate retail store's prices on phones we lose $25-125 per act. However I do agree with the knowledge base in this industry; its deplorable. But that too is a result of lessening commissions. It forces owners like me to close, or pay less to employees. I decided to close 3 of my 4 stores and do it myself. Most owners decided to hire morons for less in order to pay the bills. But I hear almost as...
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Cingular is trying 2 clean up sales. Customer service is getting a makeover
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Well, they are going about it the wrong way. I can tell you that in the Arkansas market, the Agent locations are the ones that are making the money AND keeping the customers happy. There is no adding features that customers don't want in my area. We leave that up to Best Buy and Wal-Mart.
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Nope. Unless they are lying blatently to my boss on a daily basis, it is a BIG NO!
Just called him to talk to him about all this. He said that Cingy has been hinting around this for years, but obviously would be digging themselves a big hole if this were true. There has to be a hole in his story that he may not be aware of.
Just called him to talk to him about all this. He said that Cingy has been hinting around this for years, but obviously would be digging themselves a big hole if this were true. There has to be a hole in his story that he may not be aware of.
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maybe it's his stores that are getting dropped, or maybe it a market/region thing. We went from 3 stores in my mall, 2 company, 1 indirect, to 1. A company store. We have 6 sprint/nextel, 1 verizon, and 1 t-mobile.
Our sales jumped from 150 to over 300 in about 2 months. big jump, also bigger check...
Our mall is know for the cell phone stores, and out sneaker stores...
Our sales jumped from 150 to over 300 in about 2 months. big jump, also bigger check...
Our mall is know for the cell phone stores, and out sneaker stores...
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colione112 said:
maybe it's his stores that are getting dropped, or maybe it a market/region thing. We went from 3 stores in my mall, 2 company, 1 indirect, to 1. A company store. We have 6 sprint/nextel, 1 verizon, and 1 t-mobile.
Our sales jumped from 150 to over 300 in about 2 months. big jump, also bigger check...
Our mall is know for the cell phone stores, and out sneaker stores...
I hear ya on that one, our mall had 6 cingular store, 5 indirect and i retail, only one verizon store and a sumcom store was in there, the closed the 2 mobile solutions and the pcs divison went bankrupy so it went from 6 back down to 2 stores and the activations are rolling., i am a retail employee
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You wouldn't happen to be in Florida, would you? Something like that happened when BellSouth Mobility and SBC merged their wireless companies forming Cingular. They tried hardballing existing BellSouth independant agents and others into becoming sub-agents of existing master resellers or some crap instead of giving them their own. Back when I was in the business selling Nextel and BellSouth (my wife handled the BS side, I did Nextel) something along those lines happened... Either way, instead of being grandfathered into the same system you were able to access through BSM, it went away and you were stuck paying out the rear for Cingular.
Do what everyone else did in Florida (which basically did me in) become a T-Mo agent (it was ...
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Do what everyone else did in Florida (which basically did me in) become a T-Mo agent (it was ...
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I was asking Peak... It would seem he needs to sign up as someone elses reseller or switch to selling only accessories... Too bad that doesn't help pay rent for 2k sq ft storefront...
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You got that right. But the Master Agent bs happened at the end of 2003 in Colorado...I adapted to that already. I'm talking about Agents, Sub-Agents, Master Agents EVERYONE! we all got our 60 day out on 11/1/2005. The only ones staying are the Indirects that are Prefered Agents. Theyre the ones that are dressed up to look like a CIngular Corporate Retail store. In my area its Spring Communications.
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peak my facts are based on what i see in my area. almost 90 percent of cingular dealers offer a free phone in my area. and about 3/4 always slam the customers with features and billing problems that they refer back to a corporate store. i have even had dealers want to churn me on occassion when im out on my days of in the malls and i want to amuse myself. ive had fun with that cuz at the end of there ptch i sometimes tell them i work with cingular and imma report him/her. when it boils down to it were all gettin bent over chairs with no courtesy of a reach around.
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I agree...but its driving me out of business. The level of ignorance in this industry is at its highest level ever. But that was perpetuated by the industry itself. Now I have to go find a job for the first time in 12 years; all this with 17000 acts under my belt. Thats pathetic and an overall indication of the industry. I think I'll give Cricket a call. I think theyre looking for "Old School" reps that still offer expert knowledge, good customer care, and blunt honesty. Ironic, I used to make fun of them, but theyre probably one of the most profitable wireless companies right now...I'll just have to get use to CDMA after 12 years of slamming it. Cingular bought the best GSM system from AT&T; too bad I think theyre gonna *#%* it all up if th...
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This happened all the time when people activated at the agent in my mall. Like clockwork, every billing cycle, we'd get people in that activated at the agent and we'd have to fix their bills for them because they dumped features on them.... They've been closed for about 8 days now, so hopefully this will be the last month of fixing billing issues related to them.
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So most of the indirects are OUT, and Radio Shack is IN?
Is that really a move towards quality? (its RS, so I'm thinkin', no). Or is it jus' a money thing?
Is that really a move towards quality? (its RS, so I'm thinkin', no). Or is it jus' a money thing?
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Shock,
This is in one SMALL part of the country, hence why I asked him the extra questions.
This is in one SMALL part of the country, hence why I asked him the extra questions.
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Shock,The Master Agent I now go through is national and has over 2500 dealers with over 1000 retail stores. His counterparts at the other Master dealerships ALL received the same notice. Theyre dumping ALL Induirects except for what they call the Prefered dealers. These are the Dealers that look and act like Retail Corporate stores. Only one with 3 stores in the southern half of Colorado. Its not just in "One small part of the country" its nationally!
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PeakCelln said:
Shock,The Master Agent I now go through is national and has over 2500 dealers with over 1000 retail stores. His counterparts at the other Master dealerships ALL received the same notice. Theyre dumping ALL Induirects except for what they call the Prefered dealers. These are the Dealers that look and act like Retail Corporate stores. Only one with 3 stores in the southern half of Colorado. Its not just in "One small part of the country" its nationally!
Da-yum. Thas' a LOT o' people to dump all at once. 😳
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tell me about it...were all scratching our heads...i spoke to a dealer in LA and he said his Master agent told him the same thing. we all had to get our signed letters by the 11/1/2005 in order for it to be effective 12/31/05. By- the way...the last post was to obviously read 1000 dealers and 2500 stores.
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PeakCelln said:
tell me about it...were all scratching our heads...i spoke to a dealer in LA and he said his Master agent told him the same thing. we all had to get our signed letters by the 11/1/2005 in order for it to be effective 12/31/05. By- the way...the last post was to obviously read 1000 dealers and 2500 stores.
Tex is sayin' that its not EVERYONE, but still... 1000 dealers and 2500 stores gettin' dumped is a LOT.
I guess Cingular is cleanin' house, an' maybe in doin' so, some good stores are gettin' dumped too.
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It's easier to deal with one agent company (radio shack) instead of 1000 seperate ones. One contract, one commission structure, etc.
I question radioshack though... the reps in the RS in my mall all bash cingular daily(i've heard it in their sales pitch) It's obviously not quality here. I think it was to get verizon out... Cingular wins. Radioshack probably got a hell of a deal to dump verizon... RS wins..
So 5 points of sales... corp stores, walmart, radioshack, and bestbuy... Didn't sigman say something like this when he announced the closing of the merger? That he was going to streamline the retail system? I remember reading something about it..
I question radioshack though... the reps in the RS in my mall all bash cingular daily(i've heard it in their sales pitch) It's obviously not quality here. I think it was to get verizon out... Cingular wins. Radioshack probably got a hell of a deal to dump verizon... RS wins..
So 5 points of sales... corp stores, walmart, radioshack, and bestbuy... Didn't sigman say something like this when he announced the closing of the merger? That he was going to streamline the retail system? I remember reading something about it..
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They aren't dumping all agents. This was discussed and dismissed a week ago.
The guy was a subagent, he had no direct contract with Cingular.
The guy was a subagent, he had no direct contract with Cingular.
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So tell me, have you gone to another subagent who is NOT getting axed and asked to sign up? Have you gone directly to Cingular with your business plan and asked about becoming a Premier agent?
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Shock, the vast majority of stores that will be told to stop with Cingular are your neighborhood postal stores that also sell phones. Yes regular stores might get axed but Cingular isn't going after him, they are cancelling his master agent. This guy unfortunately has no direct agreement with Cingular. His master agent and Cingular did not negotiate a new agreement.
I feel his pain but this is not Cingular's issue. They didn't just cut all sub-agenmts lose nationwide as I have a very good friend who owns a store just like this.
I feel his pain but this is not Cingular's issue. They didn't just cut all sub-agenmts lose nationwide as I have a very good friend who owns a store just like this.
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It isn't nationally. I have a very good friend who goes through a master agent and he isn't going to have to switch. Your information is inaccurate.
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I was thinking about Will on this post too. He'll make his voice heard if it affects our region too.
I wish they would close down National Retailers though. ☹️
I wish they would close down National Retailers though. ☹️
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Exactly!
Will has not been effected because HIS master agent he uses did not get axed. This poor guy's master agent got axed or did not renew their agreement or whatever but he thinks this is with everyone. He is mistaken.
Will has not been effected because HIS master agent he uses did not get axed. This poor guy's master agent got axed or did not renew their agreement or whatever but he thinks this is with everyone. He is mistaken.
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And anyone who is a direct agent with Cingular also has the ability to directly negotiate with Cingular about keeping their current status.
This poor sap lost his direct status in 2003 (per his post) and is now at the mercy of his master agent. I did the subagent thing years ago, it isn't fun not controlling your own destiny.
This poor sap lost his direct status in 2003 (per his post) and is now at the mercy of his master agent. I did the subagent thing years ago, it isn't fun not controlling your own destiny.
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Texas is funny...and it may have something to do with the AT&T buyout. Or, he doesnt know yet, or, you havent spoken to him this week. All i know is it is a national situation. Maybe there doing some this month and some next month. Every one under Infinty and National Marketing(I believe thats the name) got the letter monday, those are national agents with dealers in almost every state.
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I don't think that my boss would be putting up 3 more stores if all of this was the case.
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That post is completely inaccurate.
Indirect dealers may account for 60% of activations as you say but the ones they are cutting DO NOT make up the majority of that.
In which state are you located? Were you offerred the option of switching to a premier agent?
You need to add a bit more info before you decide to post that kind of statement.
Indirect dealers may account for 60% of activations as you say but the ones they are cutting DO NOT make up the majority of that.
In which state are you located? Were you offerred the option of switching to a premier agent?
You need to add a bit more info before you decide to post that kind of statement.
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My post IS completely accurate. The news just hasnt hit your area yet. But this is a national situation. There is no switching to a premier agent, not like when they offered to switch you to a Master Agent in 2003. Premier agents, by contract, cant have sub-dealers. They can open multiple stores, but they all must be directly part of the company.Master agents can. People get them confused. Cingular only wants exclusive dealers with large monthly acts...no other service can be offered. This is why these premier dealers all look like cingular corporates.
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So they want people who sell Cingular to only sell Cingular. Is that correct?
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No, they didnt give a choice. I AM an exclusive.That, to me, would have been the smart move...cull the herd. But everyone but premiers are done.
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Ralph,
This guy is like Will except his master agent got the axe. Unfortunately he believes all master agents will get the axe which is just not true. Will is still very much in business and doing great.
This guy is like Will except his master agent got the axe. Unfortunately he believes all master agents will get the axe which is just not true. Will is still very much in business and doing great.
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That's what I thought, as I know he'd have said something had he been cut. Especially since he JUST got it (at least it seems that way) and had to wait so long to even be accepted.
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Nothing I'm gonna say will dissuade you of what you believe. Like I said, maybe they are staggering. Maybe Texas IS special. But the facts dont change: It isnt just one Master Agent, and it is happening all over the country. Thats the facts. By some miracle, I hope you dont get "The letter" in the next few months. Hell, I would have been arguing like you a week ago. I just hope youre a stand up guy enough to email me if ya do, and apologize.
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Ok, well, luckily as a TRUE Cingular agent it won't happen here. As a sub you are in a tight position.
As I said, I feel for you on this issue.
As I said, I feel for you on this issue.
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Dude I am sorry but you are completely wrong. First off, I have an agent agreement DIRECTLY WITH CINGULAR (And I am the agent principal, the signer of said agreement), unfortunately you DO NOT. If you were a direct agent and not a sub-agent you might have some rights here but you gave up those right in 2003, PRE-AQUISITION.
As a business owner I feel bad for someone who could lose a revenue stream but this is not the fault of Cingular or Stan Sigmund. Your master agent didn't come to an agreement with Cingular. Other master agents did and their subagents are staying in business.
As a business owner I feel bad for someone who could lose a revenue stream but this is not the fault of Cingular or Stan Sigmund. Your master agent didn't come to an agreement with Cingular. Other master agents did and their subagents are staying in business.
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They just resigned their agreement in August, and commission was lowered in september. This isnt just my Master agent. Otherwise the others would be banging down my door. I know of at least two national master's this has happened to. And if you are an agent, you know they have a 60 day out in every contract; so whether or not anyone is in a contract, or just resigned, is irrelevant. If what your saying is true, they may be staggering the contract cancellations.Or maybe Texas is just special, i dont know. But this is a company wide situation that I didnt even know of until last friday.
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According to who, your master agent?
No offense but maybe he is just trying to soften the blow.
Look, your guy had an ATTWS agreement. He did not sign a new agreement in August, but there was an addendum added to ALL AGENTS regarding compensation. Cingular can amend compensation with 30 days notice. They DO NOT have a 60 day out unless it has been pre-negotiated with that individual agent. Maybe ATTWS had that out, but Cingular Orange agents did not.
No offense but maybe he is just trying to soften the blow.
Look, your guy had an ATTWS agreement. He did not sign a new agreement in August, but there was an addendum added to ALL AGENTS regarding compensation. Cingular can amend compensation with 30 days notice. They DO NOT have a 60 day out unless it has been pre-negotiated with that individual agent. Maybe ATTWS had that out, but Cingular Orange agents did not.
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I was a master agent for 8 years.I know the contracts. There was a new agrrement in August. We have been on a cingular contract, not AT&T, since december 2003. My Master agent was on an Exclusive Cingular contract since 2003 Reread your contract, there is a 60 day out clause, or as they put it "Right to Terminate Without Cause". Its a 60 day out. Maybe Texas doesnt have it. Maybe they are special; I dont know. Lets just agree to disagree. Just let me know when ya get the letter.
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Look man, why can't you aknowledge that an older ATTWS contract could have been different than a current Cingular contract?
He COULD NOT HAVE BEEN EXCLUSIVE TO CINGULAR SINCE 2003 IN COLORADO. He might have been exclusive to ATTWS, but not Cingular.
I have seen contracts for Verizon, Cingular, SWB, Pacific Bell, GTE, Sprint, LA Cellular and others. Guess what man, they were different.
It isn't a Texas vs. Colorado thing, it is an ATTWS vs. Cingular thing.
I have read my agreement front to back. No "terminate without cause" agreement there. Your subagent agreement has it for sure.
He COULD NOT HAVE BEEN EXCLUSIVE TO CINGULAR SINCE 2003 IN COLORADO. He might have been exclusive to ATTWS, but not Cingular.
I have seen contracts for Verizon, Cingular, SWB, Pacific Bell, GTE, Sprint, LA Cellular and others. Guess what man, they were different.
It isn't a Texas vs. Colorado thing, it is an ATTWS vs. Cingular thing.
I have read my agreement front to back. No "terminate without cause" agreement there. Your subagent agreement has it for sure.
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then there are different contracts in colorado than in texas. Even when I was a Master, they had a 60 out; and so did the agent. After rereadin what i wrote yesterday; I did make a mistake with my time line though. They made me Give up my exclusive master agent status(after 8 years) in december 2003 because i was no longer doing 100+ lines/mo, the cingular contract was signed in november 2004; so i stand corrected on that issue.I'm currious, what is your commission on a 2year 39.99 plan? I bet we're paid differently too.
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Yup we are. I make closer to $175. The RAISE in commissions for us came on $59.99 and up plans, big bump there.
Have you tried contacting Cingular direct with your business plan or another master agent like DCW?
Have you tried contacting Cingular direct with your business plan or another master agent like DCW?
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Hi I am an agent in Arkansas,
What state are you from and does this apply to all agents across the country?? How could Cingular do that?
Please reply soon!
Thanks,
Eric
What state are you from and does this apply to all agents across the country?? How could Cingular do that?
Please reply soon!
Thanks,
Eric
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Tadams is in Arkansas too. She hasn't heard anything about it. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Honestly I hope your right, Ralph...I really do, but this is where theyve been heading since the buyout,IMO.
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So much of everything is regional, and I agree they've been going towards cutting some stores. There's no point in worrying about it until it's in front of you though because there's no way to know if it will affect you until it does.
I'm premeire though, so I'm out of the loop on this one except for what the sub-agents near me say.
I'm premeire though, so I'm out of the loop on this one except for what the sub-agents near me say.
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Peck or whomever is right on saying that this is the direction that they have been heading for a while, but it isn't intended to phase them all out. This will NOT apply to all locations. Especially in Arkansas!
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Listen, I'm not trying to shock you or anyone else. I just know its not just in Colorado its in many states across the nation. I mainly posted on here to inform those who didnt know, but more importantly, find out altnernatives others came up with. I dont want to sell anyone else. I have only sold AT&T/Cingular for 12 years(actually started out as a Cellular One dealer before AT&T bought 80%of them) I have a little museum in my store with the first phone I sold 17000 activations ago. I love this service I just hate the way the company is run, its the worst ever. I used to hate AT&T when I ran this state in activations years ago. I hated the beurocracy, the corporate conceipt, and theyre inabilty to attack back when T-mobile and Sprint came ...
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Ralph,
Are you an Exclusive Premiere? Can you have sub agents? The exclusive premieres here can not have sub agents and must dress their store up lik a corporate, is this the casre with you? This hit me on Friday like a ton of bricks, believe me, I pray it was just these two Masters...then I could just sign up with one of the others. But all the National Masters in this state got the letter. Were talking thousands of dealers with even more thousands of stores across the nation.
Are you an Exclusive Premiere? Can you have sub agents? The exclusive premieres here can not have sub agents and must dress their store up lik a corporate, is this the casre with you? This hit me on Friday like a ton of bricks, believe me, I pray it was just these two Masters...then I could just sign up with one of the others. But all the National Masters in this state got the letter. Were talking thousands of dealers with even more thousands of stores across the nation.
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We're exclusive premiere and I'm pretty sure we've got a few subagents floating around out there too. I'm gonna email our account rep on this and see if he knows anything on it.
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The Exclusive premiere agents in Colorado can not have any sub-agents at all. They all have to be Cingular stores. So it sounds like youre slightly different. Ask your account rep to ask his boss, to ask his boss...he might know. He also may not be able to tell you. Like I said no one here saw this coming. not even the local corporate manager.
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If he knows he'll tell me, as we're not on a strictly work relationship. There is the possibility he would know nothing about it though.
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Yes Ralph and Peak, we can have subagents. The Cingular contract is different than the ATTWS contract.
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if you didnt get it on monday it will be at least another month....but Cingular didnt even follow the 30 day guideline in the sept commission change...so who knows. Are you a Master Agent or a sub-dealer? Are you exclusive? and just on a hunch, Are you in a blue Dealer state?
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Peak, your master agent was notified within 30 days. The master agent was required to then tell you and they didn't. We received the letter 33 days before.
I know several subagents who did not get notified by their master in time.
I know several subagents who did not get notified by their master in time.
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We had notice, but we also knew it was coming by just watching our numbers for the three months previous to that.
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I know this seems like a crazy question for you Peak, but are your stores updated? Do you use POS? Manual contracts?
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Not crazy at all...we're on POSII all our stores are updated. Ironically, a few select older dealers like myself, just got the go ahead to sell BAC plans...something Ive seen a need for for years. Just on the employee side, though, unless its a new corp. We even have our own FAN for walkins. And they went through this whole set up, just to tell us 30 days later, Good Bye? very strange...as if the decision came right from the top and no one else knew it. Ive never heard or seen, anything like this in 12 years.
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PeakCelln said:
Not crazy at all...we're on POSII all our stores are updated. Ironically, a few select older dealers like myself, just got the go ahead to sell BAC plans...something Ive seen a need for for years. Just on the employee side, though, unless its a new corp. We even have our own FAN for walkins. And they went through this whole set up, just to tell us 30 days later, Good Bye? very strange...as if the decision came right from the top and no one else knew it. Ive never heard or seen, anything like this in 12 years.
Maybe they did a lil' bit of an about face after seein' the 3rd quarter results?
Sigmans' got to tell the investors somethin', show 'em that he's doin' somethin' to clean up the co...
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Have you gone to another subagent who is NOT getting axed and asked to sign up (like DCW)? Have you gone directly to Cingular with your business plan and asked about becoming a Premier agent?
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That would seem to make the most sense. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody returns his calls. In Florida, the wireless over-saturation started way back in the late nineties... Voicestream/T-Mo spearheaded it with agent agreements with companies like 'cellYoular.com' and others. That's why I always make jokes like, "visit the Morgan Family Funeral Home & Wireless Store"... Or, 'Paco's Deli & Wireless'... Cingy was even trying to get rid of that back then. Something to do with image...
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One of my friends told me about a Porn shop that sold ATTWS, now Cingular.
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