It's not so much a question of who's "god" in your view. But on an objective level, last I checked, gassing Kurds and rape rooms still qualify on the wrong end of the moral spectrum.

Yes, and having helped set the guy up in the first place and giving him money and guns because we were afraid of Iran at the time kind of means we forfeit the moral high ground regarding any atrocities he committed. For a democracy to set up little puppet dictatorships to serve its own ends then getting all in a huff when the dictators turn out to have a mind of their own is disingenuous at best.

Yes, and I wholly agree that America setting him up to basically spite Iran wasn't the brightest idea. But that still doesn't change the fact that the lad needed to go.

Just because one creates a monster, doesn't mean one shouldn't deal with it.

thus afganistan and the taliban as well.

I didn't say we shouldn't deal with it--after all if I don't get my dog vaccinated and let it run wild in the woods and it comes back rabid it's my responsibility to shoot it before it does more harm. What I object to is the high and mighty "moral" tone the Bush administration takes about "combatting evil" and "spreading democracy" and "liberating the Iraqis" that just pisses me off. It's like making someone thank you for cleaning your own puke off their rug, y'know?

Well, I can still let the US get away with some moral high ground. While the current administration may seem a bit dodgy at times, the foundations of the counrty are still those good ol' pillars of liberty and justice for all.

At least I know that when a US soldier or airman blows up a school. It was either a ****-up or something was in the school. And when the unthinkable happens and civilians die, it wasn't part of the original plan the guy pulling the trigger feels quite ****ty about it. And when the dust settles, that Yanks rebuild the school.

As opposed to when say, a terrorist chucks a bomb into a school. It was his full intent to hit the school, and he wants to do it with as many people as possible inside. After the blast ...
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good point. i like that

Uh huh... "My Lai." 🙄

And it was American chopper pilots who put a stop to it.

My point merely being that simply belonging to the US military does not inherently confer exalted moral sense. American soldiers are just as capable as any other of atrocities in war, and I have more than enough friends with "souvenirs" to prove it.

Yeah, every nation has it's black eyes. You have May Lai, we have Somalia.

If anything, creating the monster not only gives the right to deal with the problem, but the reposnsibility to deal with it. it was your mess now clean it up and they are. was it right that they went into iraq, who knows. but was it a bad thing that sadam is gone, no. he needed to go sooner or later. now they have no choice but to stay until the mess is cleaned up.

well, my husband was in Iraq and Afghanistan and kosovo.. and he said Iraq was a big waste of time (was there 8 months). he said that he knew everyone was chasing an unseen enemy these weapons of mass destruction.. and so many people died for no good reason.. it totally changed him.. and not for the better

So, let's say there's a vacant house next to yours. One of your friends that just lost his job is looking for a house to live in. You tell him about the house next to yours, and even give him a bit of money to help with the first few months of rent. After a few years, that neighbor starts to steal from you. He takes your tools, lawn mower, hedge trimmer. He also starts vandilizing your property. Once, he came over and raped your wife.

Now, since you helped him move in, do you forfeit all your rights to seeking damages from him? If you say yes, this country is lost.

What if the house was not vacant and was full of fighting people who wanted to control the house. You being all powerful decided you knew best who could run that household and provided the person with the tools to do so. Then when the person decided they were not going to do what you wanted tin THIER house, you got a little mad. Because you provided him with the tools perhaps you should think how stupid of me to waste my time and money.
That would be the logical response, not lets look at who we would now like to control the house, who will be our puppet this time.

So, if you gave them a gun or bat or something to fight off potential burglers, and now, you're neighbor (we're all one big neighbor in this modern world, where it takes less than 10 minutes to fire off an ICBM from China to the USA) is threatening to use that gun against you while offering to pay people that will harm you also, you're saying you don't have a right to attack him before he attacks you?

Don't even bother with the fact that under Clinton's administration, they had plans to remove Saddam from power. And forget the fact that Saddam had violated more than three U.N. resolutions, resolutions that, when violated, allowed any member nation (of which the U.S. is one) to take action to remove him from power. If this had all happ...
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You see Iraq did not attack the US, they did not have the ability to and were not about to. There was no way an ICMB would have been devloped and deployed under the surveillance and watch of the world. Iran is not about to attack the US either, they are trying to produce energy.

Attacking somebody before they attack you is stupid, you could use that justification for everything. And the UN was against attacking Iraq this time, it was a coalition of the willling. The coalition was not all that large...

Iraqis are not tossed in a shredder they are instead worried about suicide attacks, US bombs, starvation, lack of medication, and no hope for peace. They are now just pawns in the US struggle for more power and their oil fields is just ...
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How do you know they didn't have the ability to attack? Were you there? I seem to remember some guy named Colin Powell addressing the U.N. a few years ago with images and intelligence of WMDs possessed by Saddam. And it seems that at least 48 countries supported the war in some way. That's 20% of the countries in the world. Not to shabby, considering most of them are either Islamic goons or either running around trying to sell chiclets to tourists or eating desert worms just to live. And it doesn't matter if the U.N. was for it or not. If they were against it, that just proves even more what a useless organization it is. That's just like having laws in your state on theft, and when someone actually steals and can easily be caught, th...
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Ok, step back, deep breath ****ok****

You idiot.

Colin Powell presented skewed evidence for those photos. Many of them were munitions dump, true, but we're talking about a COUNTRY. OF COURSE they have weapons. WMD were a supposition, and as it was shown, an erroneous one.

So, 20% of the countries want to start a war. This is not acceptable. Those 20% not come close to being 20% of the world's population. So, let's say that >50% of the world did not want to see the US go to war. That means, a responsible administrative body (THE UN!) would have taken the position of being against the war. That doesn't mean they are useless. That means they are doing their job properly.

Wait, let's go back a bit. You said

davidg4781

...
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davidg4781 said:
So, let's say there's a vacant house next to yours. One of your friends that just lost his job is looking for a house to live in. You tell him about the house next to yours, and even give him a bit of money to help with the first few months of rent. After a few years, that neighbor starts to steal from you. He takes your tools, lawn mower, hedge trimmer. He also starts vandilizing your property. Once, he came over and raped your wife.

Now, since you helped him move in, do you forfeit all your rights to seeking damages from him? If you say yes, this country is lost.

Your analogy is flawed. Better one would be: next door is a house with people living in it, but a buddy of yours ...
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They didn't ask your family. Last time I checked, there was no draft. Sure, Democrats want it, but that's all political nonsense. Remember, we have a VOLUNTEER military. Your family signed up to be in the military.

And what's flawed about my analogy? Who is the person that the U.S. is trying to put in? Didn't Iraqis elect their leaders? Remember the purple fingers and smiling faces during their election?

The Downing Street memo shows that both the U.S. and Great Britain manipulated evidence to force the war in Iraq. Why would that be necessary if Hussein was such a bad guy?

because they went in for WMD. otherwise it isn't a good enough reason. not like he is the only person in the world to do evil (lack of better word in my head) deeds while running a country. wmd were what tehy wanted and how they thought they could get support.

Actually, oil is what they wanted but knew nobody would sanction it under that basis. Halliburton had been trying like a maniac to get permission to put a pipeline across Iraq and Hussein kept telling them and the Saudis to pee up a rope. So, before the dust settled over Baghdad, guess what Halliburton is in Iraq doing? Building their effing pipeline, of course! And using military personnel to guard their civilian contractors. Nice, our guys getting shot at for chump change so Halliburton truck drivers can get their 35.00/hr hazard pay. 🙄 And we're paying 2.50 a gallon at the pump, nice to see it's all working according to plan... 😈

Well, I never said they were saints.



Profiteering bastards.

"Greedy c*ck smokin' sh!t birds" covers a lot of ground, too... 🤣

I like that one, I'm writing that one down.

Hey, I won't even charge you royalties! Use it in good health... 🤣

Why do you call them greedy? They're the ones Clinton put on the list of companies that don't need to bid for government contracts and can just go in and take them. And what's with this crap about war for oil? Where's the oil? What about the U.N. and their Food for Oil program? No one's crying about that, where there are documented cases of fraud. Nah, it's all about these leftist, Bush hating morons that want to see the U.S. go down the tubes coming up with these lame opinions on the war.

Well, our wonderful government isn't a bastion of truth, now is it?