Cingular To Charge Non-GSM Subscribers

SkillciaX said:
yes they are still paying customers, but the majority of these customers are using dinosaur phones, because they do not and have not made TDMA/analog cingular phones in a while. There's not much battery life in those phones, so I doubt their using many minutes.

Also they can choose to leave the company by taking their business elsewhere if they don't want to pay cingular anymore.

Good thing these paying customers have YOU to decide what plans and which equipment they use...and how many minutes they make use of each and every month.

I'm sure they'd appreciate having you make all their decisions for them.

And they do appreciate that because I do work in a cell phone store. I actually sell for T-Mobile, Sprint, cingular and Dish Network.

SkillciaX said:
And they do appreciate that because I do work in a cell phone store. I actually sell for T-Mobile, Sprint, cingular and Dish Network.

You missed the point utterly.

These folks don't WANT their cell phone providers making decisions for them. It was sarcasm. See?

You do not have to point out your sarcasm, I am not a child.

Also, if these folks don't want their cell phone providors to make decisions for them, then they best not even have a cell phone altogether, because cingular will do what they want with their network regardless of what "these folks" say or want.

Half of the time the customers don't even know what they want, or how to use what they currently have. That's what I'm here for. To HELP the customer make the best decision for THEIR needs and wants.

I'm not forcing the customer to make a decision. I'm letting them know cingular's making decisions regardless so they either move with the times, or get something else. Either way their going to wake up one day in 2008 and their phone'...
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Wow. If you are pushing Cingy and T-Mobile, then, you would understand the dilemma of the 4.7 million. First, the base of the 4.7 million customers is located in the southeastern part of the country. As a rep, myself, that pushes Suncon/T-Mobile in NC, I can honestly say that GSM sucks here. Analog is needed for Cingy and Suncom/T-Mobile do not have enough towers to accommodate for those that are on the outskirts of the "cities" here in NC. This is why most pick up US Cellular or Alltel.

Also, if I had a phat plan like the ones I've been calling in on for customers, I wouldn't switch either. I have heard of some crazy regional and national plans that are like whoa. The companies need to provide more coverage area and give them a...
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Optimus31 said:
I can honestly say that GSM sucks here. Analog is needed for Cingy and Suncom/T-Mobile do not have enough towers to accommodate for those that are on the outskirts of the "cities" here in NC. This is why most pick up US Cellular or Alltel.

Don't look now, but I think you just made some sense. And probably threw Skill off the trail as well.

But hey, let's just continue to charge these poor folks the increased amount.

"I can honestly say that GSM sucks here. Analog is needed for Cingy and Suncom/T-Mobile do not have enough towers to accommodate for those that are on the outskirts of the "cities" here in NC. This is why most pick up US Cellular or Alltel."


"Don't look now, but I think you just made some sense. And probably threw Skill off the trail as well.

But hey, let's just continue to charge these poor folks the increased amount."



You act like I don't get it that GSM coverage might not be available to the folks using the TDMA/Analog network. Of course I understand that. But there's also customers still using the network where GSM is readily available.


Also no matter what in 2008 regardless of being charged or paying bills their p...
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Wow. Again, you fail to understand the facts on why analog/TDMA is needed. Its not the customer's fault that Cingy nor Suncom/T-mobile were bright enough to bid on rights that were available during auctions in these southeastern states where the 4.7 million reside. You can not blame the customer for trying to keep a plan that fits their needs while carriers try to play stupid on matching them when its not a problem at all to match. Thus, asking the same $64,000 question: What is a customer suppose to do?

No, I do understand that TDMA/Analog is needed because in some areas it is the only option for the customer.

However, if these customers left cingular for some regional carrier or something, it would open up space for cingular to take care of those towers and place GSM there, because customers would not be using the old technology in those areas. So then when GSM replaces it then they may go back to cingular if they so wish to do so.

Also, no I can't blame customers for not wanting to switch because of a great plan, but your contracts say rates are subject to change without notice. Your plan is not gauranteed!

All of the cingular $19.99 customers were bumped up to the $29.99 plan regardless if they were in contract or not. So cingul...
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SkillciaX said:
However, if these customers left cingular for some regional carrier or something, it would open up space for cingular to take care of those towers and place GSM there

So, the customers should bend to Cingular's will so Cingular can make out? How chivalrous.

So you think it's fine and dandy if the customer makes out, and the company is taking losses?

Of course... yeah... think makes A LOT of sense. Start a business to NOT make money! 🤣 🙄

SkillciaX said:
So you think it's fine and dandy if the customer makes out, and the company is taking losses?

How often do you think otherwise? That the customer makes out while the company suffers? Never? Yeah, that'd be my guess too.

Because a company is never in the negative? Did I not state and show that Sprint took a loss this year. The company is suffering.

SkillciaX said:
Because a company is never in the negative? Did I not state and show that Sprint took a loss this year. The company is suffering.

And I responded by saying Sprextel is in the throes of a nerve wracking merger of two polar opposite technologies. Unlike CinguATT...which is virtually finished. If not finished completely.

SkillciaX said:


You act like I don't get it that GSM coverage might not be available to the folks using the TDMA/Analog network.

And yet you feel nothing for their woes. Interesting.

Of course I feel sorry for them, but you're not solving anything just feeling pitty for someone.

Cingular gave these customers a choice, and they can either take it or leave it. Whinning isn't going to solve anything, nor help these folks out, by saying stop charing them and it's wrong.

The point in being a sales rep is to help the customer with what's available. Not whine about what's not, and say this is wrong, and such.

cingular will charge the customers money, wether you or I say it's wrong. So tough.

Again, these customers have no choice. Not that they shouldn't, but they don't so it is my job and those alike to help these customers move on.

SkillciaX said:
Of course I feel sorry for them, but you're not solving anything just feeling pitty for someone.

I feel for people getting screwed.

And you could care less apparently, judging from your "let them eat cake!" attitude. Nice.

These people are not getting screwed. They're using old technology and nobody wants them on it anymore. cingular does not just put up self maintaining towers. TDMA/Analog are a NATIONWIDE network that's supporting 4.7 million customers. That's TOO many towers for such a little customer base. It is cingulars job at all times to make sure ALL towers are working properly.

So tell me how it doesn't cost money to maintain a network that barely anyone is using?

Why do you think companys don't put towers up in not very populated areas? Because there's not enough customers compensating the maintanence that is needed for the tower. Thus is costing the company more money.

If cingular puts up a tower, and the customer base surrounding it is Pr...
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SkillciaX said:
These people are not getting screwed.

No. Getting charged $5 dollars more per month on a whim is just what the doctor ordered. My bad.

muchdrama said:

SkillciaX said:
These people are not getting screwed.

No. Getting charged $5 dollars more per month on a whim is just what the doctor ordered. My bad.

But they're not being charged on a whim. They have been notified about this charge since July and will continue to be notified until the charge takes place around September. They've been for warned, and offers to these customers have been presented already.

SkillciaX said:

muchdrama said:

SkillciaX said:
These people are not getting screwed.

No. Getting charged $5 dollars more per month on a whim is just what the doctor ordered. My bad.

But they're not being charged on a whim. They have been notified about this charge since July and will continue to be notified until the charge takes place around September. They've been for warned, and offers to these customers have been presented already.

I'm sorry, but telling a customer about an unjust charge doesn't make it just. I BELIEVE Cingular should handle it differently.

If you think that they are handling it poorly, then you must have an alternative in mind.

Tell us, how do you think Cingular should have handled this?

mela774 said:
If you think that they are handling it poorly, then you must have an alternative in mind.

Tell us, how do you think Cingular should have handled this?

ANY way other than just charging customers more. I'm sure you can come up with a few ideas for yourself.

Cingular has pretty much done everything else; they are already offering free phones, free upgrades, and lower-cost plans.

In view of this, honestly, the only other route I can come up with for Cingular to take is to just suck it up and keep taking losses over these TDMA customers until 2008 rolls around.

That answer, however, is not an attractive one; the wisdom behind it is questionable, I think. You could say that the customer-provider relationship is a symbiotic one; Cingular provides a service that the customer wants, and the customer pays the money that Cingular wants. How is Cingular supposed to keep up their end in the relationship if the customer is not paying enough to help keep Cingular profitable?

Like someone else sai...
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mela774 said:
Cingular has pretty much done everything else; they are already offering free phones, free upgrades, and lower-cost plans.

In view of this, honestly, the only other route I can come up with for Cingular to take is to just suck it up and keep taking losses over these TDMA customers until 2008 rolls around.

That answer, however, is not an attractive one; the wisdom behind it is questionable, I think. You could say that the customer-provider relationship is a symbiotic one; Cingular provides a service that the customer wants, and the customer pays the money that Cingular wants. How is Cingular supposed to keep up their end in the relationship if the customer is not paying enough to help keep Cingular pr

...
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SkillciaX said:
You do not have to point out your sarcasm, I am not a child.

Either way their going to wake up one day in 2008 and their phone's not going to work. What should they do then?

Oh, I dunno...go with a carrier that won't arbitrarily charge them $5 dollars more per month?

exactly that's definitely an option for the customer.

SkillciaX said:
exactly that's definitely an option for the customer.

Which they will. In spades.

AshDizzle said:
Drama, give me a break.

It SUCKS that some people may be getting messed with with this 5 dollar charge, but something has to be done.

ALSO, you KNOW that old people are just sticking with it because they are afraid of the change. AND IT IS HURTING EVERYONE ELSE!

No. You get no break. Neither does anyone else, for that matter. Yeah, it sucks these people are subject to this arbitrary rate increase, but NO, it doesn't HAVE to be done this way.

Hey, I've got an idea. Let's eliminate ALL old people and the services they rely upon. This way, they won't be "hurting" us any longer.

Then what do you suggest that cingular does for these people, since all you can say it that they shouldn't be charging them?

What's your solution that will make the customer & cingular happy and still make cingular money, because not only are they losing money on the network, these customers have really cheap plans with lots of minutes so their losing money on their plans too.

Do you have a better idea instead of just refuting that it's wrong?

SkillciaX said:
Then what do you suggest that cingular does for these people, since all you can say it that they shouldn't be charging them?



Do you have a better idea instead of just refuting that it's wrong?

What's my solution? Don't charge these customers $5 dollars per month.

I rather doubt Cingular is losing money running their legacy networks when 4.7 million subscibers are paying their dues every month.

You see, I don't trust Cingular implicitly.

4.7 million customers are paying their dues every month, but it's not substantial enough NOW to keep the old network running. Not to mention many of these customers are on old plans with lots of minutes with a low rate which is also costing them money.

Also by these customers not getting on the new network is holding back furthur deployment of the new network where other customers want the service available.

No matter which way you look at it the company is losing money, and you can't say any different. If they weren't losing money then they wouldn't need to charge customers $5 a month to keep the network running.

You know why 7pm nights is now $8.99 and 411 is now $1.79 for regular customers? because they just spent millions of dol...
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SkillciaX said:
4.7 million customers are paying their dues every month, but it's not substantial enough NOW to keep the old network running.

Not to mention many of these customers are on old plans with lots of minutes with a low rate which is also costing them money.

So Cingular says, but I don't believe it for a minute. And again, for the ninth time, Cingular negotiated these rates with the customers (or whoever the customers were with before Cingular took over their contracts).

And again, for the ninth time, Cingular negotiated these rates with the customers (or whoever the customers were with before Cingular took over their contracts).

And again, those customers signed those contracts that say "rates subject to change without notice."

Not like they weren't warned.

Make 'em pay their fair share. There's no reason that the rest of Cingular's customers should be subsidizing the maintenance of an antique network for their private use.

Thank you!

SkillciaX said:
Thank you!

LOL. This is getting old.

Roadkill said:

And again, for the ninth time, Cingular negotiated these rates with the customers (or whoever the customers were with before Cingular took over their contracts).

And again, those customers signed those contracts that say "rates subject to change without notice."

Not like they weren't warned.

Make 'em pay their fair share. There's no reason that the rest of Cingular's customers should be subsidizing the maintenance of an antique network for their private use.

That doesn't excuse bad business practices. Sure, companies and municipalities raise taxes and the like, but raising customers' fees outright? Bad business. Don't forget the greed, either. And I SEVEREL...
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That doesn't excuse bad business practices. Sure, companies and municipalities raise taxes and the like, but raising customers' fees outright? Bad business. Don't forget the greed, either. And I SEVERELY doubt other Cingular customers are subsizding the customers in question. Please.

What bad business practice? Raising rates to cover costs is somehow a bad business practice???

Doubt all you want, but Cingular's losing money on those accounts. Which means that by definition Cingular's other customers are subsidizing them.

Yeah don't you think just one GSM network would be easier and cheaper to maintain, which would also lower rates for current GSM customers, and give them more coverage and features.

SkillciaX said:
Yeah don't you think just one GSM network would be easier and cheaper to maintain, which would also lower rates for current GSM customers, and give them more coverage and features.

Okay, you're REALLY not hearing me. I've said from the BEGINNING: I'm pissed at Cingular charging the extra dough. NOT that one GSM network isn't better as a whole. READ the posts.

I have been reading the posts.

Your mad about the charge, but you've yet to justify and give valid reasons to support your theory that this charge is comming out of nowhere, and that cingular is not justified in doing so.

It's one thing to be mad, but you don't understand why cingular is doing this.

Like Bush and the war. People may not like him as president, and the war and are mad, but they do take the time to try and understand what's going on wether it's justifiable or not.

You're just mad, but you have no justifications to being mad, and proof that this charge is being brought upon the customers whithout reason.

SkillciaX said:
I have been reading the posts.

Your mad about the charge, but you've yet to justify and give valid reasons to support your theory that this charge is comming out of nowhere, and that cingular is not justified in doing so.

It's one thing to be mad, but you don't understand why cingular is doing this.

Please, spare me your political view of the world. I'm not interested in the least.

And I understand that Cingular is SAYING all this...but I don't believe their reasoning for a moment.

It seems all of a sudden and unnecessary.

This is my OPINION. Get it through your rather hard head.

She wasn't sharing a political view, she was making a comparison.

I get that you are upset that Cingular for charging the $5 extra, and this is even more understandable when one takes into account the fact that you don't believe they are losing money on their TDMA customers.

It is hard to fathom, however, how you can continue to hold onto this belief when presented with all the arguments that have been shared thus far, arguments that you have yet to knock down.

Just going by gut feeling?

mela774 said:


Just going by gut feeling?

Gut feeling is instinct, and instinct's always served me well. And I don't think Cingular's being fair with a lot of folks.

Then what is fair?

SkillciaX said:
Then what is fair?

Practically anything other than charging them more for the same service. Use your imagination...you deal with these folks every day.

muchdrama said:

SkillciaX said:
Then what is fair?

Practically anything other than charging them more for the same service. Use your imagination...you deal with these folks every day.

Yes I deal with people everyday, but not them folks. I see "them" folks once in a while. They're not the whole customer base.

And even if I do have some ideas, you obviously can't come up with one of your own. You just keep telling us to, even though you're the one that thinks what's happening is unjustifiable.

If you think it's so wrong, then it is your argument to give an alternative, not ours.

SkillciaX said:

muchdrama said:

SkillciaX said:
Then what is fair?

Practically anything other than charging them more for the same service. Use your imagination...you deal with these folks every day.

And even if I do have some ideas, you obviously can't come up with one of your own.

Oh, for God's sake...use some common sense.

When you piss off a customer, how do YOU iron it out? You're the customer service person...not me.

yes I am the customer service person, but primarily sales so my job will be to help these customers upgrade or switch. There's nothing else I can do as far as customer service goes because I cannot take this $5 charge away.

I've yet to have a customer pissed off at me because of something I did, and I've been in the wireless business for almost a year and half. Granted I've had some angry customers come up to the kiosk, and I try and help them the best I can with their situation.

If I get someone with a TDMA/Analog phone I'll explain to them the situation and while they won't like it, will have to make a choice to upgrade or switch anyways.

SkillciaX said:
yes I am the customer service person, but primarily sales so my job will be to help these customers upgrade or switch. There's nothing else I can do as far as customer service goes because I cannot take this $5 charge away.

I've yet to have a customer pissed off at me because of something I did, and I've been in the wireless business for almost a year and half. Granted I've had some angry customers come up to the kiosk, and I try and help them the best I can with their situation.

If I get someone with a TDMA/Analog phone I'll explain to them the situation and while they won't like it, will have to make a choice to upgrade or switch anyways.

Okay. Fine. You're not a customer service re...
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I'll switch over to GSM... When Cingular allows me to keep my 7 PM off-peak. I have asked several times but I always get the same response: " Sure, we can offer you a 7 PM evening... for $10 a month. NAAAAH, I don't think so. HEY CINGULAR! I'm getting it for FREE now so if you want me to switch over to a plan with less coverage so you can save money don't expect me to eat crap. I'm no geriatric case and I buy my TDMA phones BRAND NEW... on Ebay! Poor Cingular. HEY! WAKE UP, PEOPLE!!! No one twisted Cingular's arm to buy AT&T. How soon we forget that Cingular promised to bring us the best of BOTH companies. Instead they have pulled a lot of crap to make the AT&T customers suffer and coerce them to switch over to GSM. Is it any wonder Cingular...
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Staying put isn't going to do you any good in a few years. You people can't stay on your plans forever. You will either change over in 2008 or change companies because you will NOT have any other choice.

Sorry to you stubborn people that it has to be this way, but that's what's happening. You know with rollover you probably wouldn't need 7pm nights anyways.

Why don't you just switch to Sprint and get on a 7pm nights plan there? It's all included in the price, and they still have analog towers, even though those will soon be shut down as well either at the same time if not sooner.

Sprint? Sprint sucks!
And I can wait a couple of years. I spend a lot of time in the boonies in Maine. Lots of TDMA. Not lots of GSM. And I would switch now to get less coverage there? I don't think so.
Me stubborn. Hey, like I said, no one twisted Cingular's arm to but AT&T. And in bullshitting the FCC and smoothing over anti-trust authorities they schmoozed this "best of both worlds" idea. Apparently they didn't mean it.

FIXER69 said:
And I can wait a couple of years. I spend a lot of time in the boonies in Maine. Lots of TDMA. Not lots of GSM. And I would switch now to get less coverage there? I don't think so.

I hope for your sake that by 2008, TDMA has already been sufficiently cleared out to make room for GSM, because at that point there is going to be NO TDMA whatsoever.