ZpikeJul 25, 2014, 12:01 PM
This is hardly the promise Verizon made to its customers when they grandfathered them in. They should be sued for breach of contract.
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Come on now. They promised unlimited, not any particular speed.
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At THIS point, everyone with unlimited data is out of contract with Verizon. Besides it is saved for the data hogs not for everyone with unlimited data.
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I'm under a two year unlimited until next February. They required me to upgrade my older Altell phones (Treo Pros) and I said that I would walk if I could not keep my grandfathered in unlimited plan as it was them requiring me to change.
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Nevertheless, a new contract is exactly that, NEW, Verizon is under no obligation to offer you the same terms with every contract.
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Correct. I was only pointing out that there are people with unlimited data that are still under contract. However, my free tethering did disappear when I re-upped. Alltel never charged me for it, and neither did Verizon until I "upgraded" phones. ☹️
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ZpikeJul 29, 2014, 10:57 AM
It is illegal for Verizon not to offer free tethering over their 4G network, per the terms of the 700 MHz auction where they won all that spectrum they used for their 4G network. They have already been in trouble with the FCC over this. Feel free to root your phone and tether away. Verizon has no legal grounds to stop you.
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Exactly. But Google pushed an update which stopped free tethering from working on my GS3 thereby forcing me to purchase the data plan as I was unwilling to risk rooting my device. In the end...Verizon always wins.
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This is funny. Anyone using more than 4.7 GB per month is a data hog? They're basically enforcing the $29.99 for 5GB artificially.
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Did you really think they'd leave unlimited alone forever?
They just launched a 100GB plan. That says only one thing, unlimited's data's days are numbered
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I will be targeted my 4G LTE hotspot has used 220GB one month and I average 100+gb.
I hope because It hardly leaves my house that I wont be affected to much.
I guess no one can promise unlimited at any speed anymore.
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They never could promise unlimited to anyone ever.....mobile bandwidth is finite, you can't promise an unlimited amount of a finite resource.
So called 'unlimited' come from a time when phones use so little data that 100MB a month was considered a massive amount. When no one actually USED data, they promised 'unlimited' because it was an empty promise that they would never need to fulfill. But when phones started to be released that actually used significant amounts of data, they had no choice but to back pedal on the promise.
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And why should that be my problem?
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The way I see it, you have two choices:
1. live in reality
2. live in fantasyland
I don't know about you, but I choose the former
Expecting mobile carriers to be able to give you a genuinely unlimited amount of a resource which is inherently limited is like throwing a virgin down a well to make it rain, it's an appeal to magic.
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ZpikeJul 28, 2014, 10:23 AM
3. Hold them legally responsible for the promises the made. Lawyers love this kind of stuff.
I know you're a schill for the cellular industry and all, but even you should realize that it's illegal to advertise something and not deliver it.
>>Expecting mobile carriers to be able to give you a genuinely unlimited amount
No one with a brain ever expected that. They expected to be able to access as much data as possible at the speed advertised. That's what unlimited data means. You seem to be confusing the words unlimited and infinite. They don't mean the same thing.
For instance, 3G speeds typically run about 1.5 Mb/s. If we consider an average of 30 days in a month, that's approximately 486 GB. That's hardly an infinite amount of...
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They did fulfill their promise, every single person in America who signed a contract promising unlimited data is now out of contract, those old contracts no longer apply.
The argument that Verizon should be required to honor the terms of a contract which has expired and is no longer in force is a farce.
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ZpikeJul 29, 2014, 10:32 AM
>>They did fulfill their promise, every single person in America who signed a contract promising unlimited data is now out of contract, those old contracts no longer apply.
It's nice that you emphatically state this is so. However, I'm willing to bet there are a plenty of lawyers who disagree with you. If you don't think there's grounds for a class action lawsuit, you're kidding yourself.
>>The argument that Verizon should be required to honor the terms of a contract which has expired and is no longer in force is a farce.
No one is making that argument. What you're doing is what is called a straw man attack... you know arguing with some argument no one is making rather than the one that actually exists. What people are arguing is th...
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Because you have no pull over their policies that they can change them any time, which your original agreement has since it has been expired for some time. You are free to leave at any time.
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Precisely. Prices and plans are not guaranteed to exist forever. As long as they allow you to keep your plans for the term of your contract they are in the clear, legally.
In the early 80's Taco John's introduced 'Taco Tuesday' which was originally introduced as 'two tacos for 99 cents', today, you can only get ONE taco for $1.29...prices go up over time due to inflation, them's the breaks. It wouldn't make sense for me to walk into Taco John's today and demand they abide by a price promised to me (in national ads) in 1982.
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ZpikeJul 28, 2014, 10:26 AM
Retail prices go up over time. Prices for the use of an asset typically go down once the expense of paying for the asset has been exhausted.
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The problem with your comment about the price decreasing as the capital investment is fully depreciated is that you are now able to use newly deployed assets (the LTE network) that did not even exist when you started on your unlimited data plan. So the only way this argument holds water is if you had access to unlimited 3G data (which is what you had at the start of the plan) and no access to the LTE network (the new capital investment). While that would arguably be the most fair, as it fits exactly the agreement all parties made at the time the contract was put in place, I think the vast majority of unlimited data users would rather have the biggest users restricted rather than having all unlimited users unable to use any LTE data.
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ZpikeJul 29, 2014, 11:08 AM
>> you are now able to use newly deployed assets (the LTE network) that did not even exist when you started on your unlimited data plan. So the only way this argument holds water is if you had access to unlimited 3G data (which is what you had at the start of the plan) and no access to the LTE network
Not so. I was a Verizon customer for over 10 years and my rates never went down even though the network had long since been paid for. Verizon justified the exorbitantly high rates because they were developing new network assets. My continuously high rates paid for the new network, and so it is reasonable to expect access to that network at the same price, since Verizon never lowered their rates in the first place.
>> I think the vast maj...
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Zpike said:
>> Not so. I was a Verizon customer for over 10 years and my rates never went down even though the network had long since been paid for. Verizon justified the exorbitantly high rates because they were developing new network assets. My continuously high rates paid for the new network, and so it is reasonable to expect access to that network at the same price, since Verizon never lowered their rates in the first place.
So what if your rates never went down. That happens all the time and is completely irrelevant to any part of your argument. In fact if you want to enforce your contract (which has long since lapsed) you're rates shouldn't have ever gone down because that's what you contracted for. Also your
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ZpikeJul 29, 2014, 3:50 PM
>>So what if your rates never went down. That happens all the time and is completely irrelevant to any part of your argument.
Then you have failed follow the thread rationally. My original objection was to Tbone's statement that prices always rise due to inflation. That had nothing to do with a contract. Or perhaps you think purchasing a taco involves a contract?
I objected that retail prices rise due to inflation, but that prices for using an asset typically fall once the cost of the asset has been covered.
You objected because you felt that I was also asking for access to a new asset. I reminded you that the cost of using the original asset never went down, even long after it had been paid for. The justification to the customer fo...
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You're right, it is apples and oranges. Neither Verizon nor any other carrier ever promised unlimited access to data at 4G speeds, only at 3G speeds.
So the network is not the same, so it is indeed apples and oranges.
Every single person in America who signed a contract promising unlimited usage at 3G speeds is now out of contract, the promise having been fulfilled to the letter.
When someone signs a new contract, the old contract no longer counts, it has been fulfilled and is supplanted by the new contract. And Verizon is under no obligation to continue to offer the same terms and conditions on each and every contract into perpetuity.
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ZpikeJul 29, 2014, 10:29 AM
>>Neither Verizon nor any other carrier ever promised unlimited access to data at 4G speeds, only at 3G speeds.
That's an outright lie. Verizon did promise grandfathered unlimited customers 4G access. I know because I was a Verizon customer at the time, and opted not to hurry up and grab an unlimited plan so I could get grandfathered in.
I had already planned to leave Verizon. At the time this happened Verizon had already started rolling out it's LTE network, and unlimited plans included access to it. You should check the facts before you just make something up.
>>So the network is not the same, so it is indeed apples and oranges.
You have an interesting way of twisting things. Unfortunately unlimited 4G access was promised to 4...
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when watching the verizon commerical... they show a guy streaming on his tablet a sports game to recover the satellite issues.
they dont want you to use streaming data but show it in the commercial. i say they are feeding the behavior to encourage more money.
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They have never said that they don't want people streaming data. You can use your data allowance however you like and they have never tried to dictate what kinds of traffic oyu can use. The limit is on total usage only.
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...unless you're paying per MB.
They are very cool with those NOT on Unlimited Plans streaming. This is an end run on VZW's part and it just may work.
Fran Shammo gloated to the share holders about how 4G would put money in their pockets because users will burn through their data allotments and then either pay overages or bump their plans up to higher tiers. The Unlimited Data consumers are the ones they want to get rid of. This will do it.
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The one thing people don't realize is back when Verizon began the unlimited plan not only did people not use much data but the quality of the data was much lower. I'm sure we all remember the constant buffering. Also the grainy picture quality. So of course with the high speed we have and the HD effects we get on the screen doesn't that account for anything. Plus remember even though phone companies limit our data do we not forget that free Wi-Fi exists almost everywhere. When the unlimited plan was first introduced I'm sure none of us could explain what Wi-Fi is if a gun was put to their head. In the end no phone company can afford to give a Mercedes Benz for the price of a KIA Spectra.
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Just because WiFi is everywhere doesnt mean that you have to or are obligated to use it. If you have an unlimited data plan, it is expected, you are going to use it, even if WiFi is present, otherwise, why not just not have phone/tablet data at all?
I live in SF, and yes, every street is covered in WiFi in some aspect in some way, but keep in mind, 99% of WiFi is locked down and not able to be accessed. A data network via cellular, is open, since you are a customer. That right there, keeps me on unlimited data plans. The next thing is that if I am paying $20-$40 per month for unlimited data, I expect to use it. It costs me the same on my phone, ONE PHONE mind you, ONE SINGLE DEVICE for unlimited data to use while I am travelling the stree...
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I agree with the statement you pay for and have use it. My statement was saying it is getting harder for cell companies to afford to keep unlimited as an option. They are keeping their word that those that have it can keep it. But keep in mind it is considered grandfathering in and is only meant for a reasonable amount of time past the promotion expiration. Usually 2-3 years beyond. Never is the word forever mentioned as nothing in life is forever. Then at that time those customers will have to choose a more modern plan for the times.
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Even home internet isn't unlimited. It only appears unlimited because of the infrastructure in place allows for a high data cap.
Comcast for example (I know you said DSL, but I have experience with Comcast) has a 250 to 300 GB cap. Its hard to reach that point, even with constant HD video streaming. And it may have gone up but people talk about Comcast closing peoples accounts because they violated the cap consistantly.
Nothing is truely unlimited. They just set impossible caps. Or they don't mention it being unlimited at all (for example, both Comcast and Century Link where I live don't advertise unlimited data, just speed and price).
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ZpikeJul 28, 2014, 10:39 AM
>>do we not forget that free Wi-Fi exists almost everywhere.
Not everyone has the privilege of living in one of the few cities blanketed in WiFi. Free WiFi is hardly everywhere.
Besides, just because some alternative exists that doesn't justify their failure to deliver on their promises. Let's say you go to a bank and get approved to take out a $300,000 loan to purchase a house. Then when you get to closing the bank only wants to pay $100,000 (they were having hard times and didn't have the capital for your loan), and advises you that there is another bank down the street that would likely lend you the other $200,000. Would you think that was ok?
>>When the unlimited plan was first introduced I'm sure none of us could explain what W...
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Yes! Wi-Fi is a great alternative to being a data network hog. People are just either to ignorant or lazy to use it.
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WiFi is also faster than LTE, however, I think the main reason people don't use WiFi more often is lack of access.
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There is no Free Wi Fi in the rural south where I live.
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It is not rational to expect someone to 'follow through' on an impossible promise. The problem is more the gullibility of people who think the promise is realistic. If someone is elected president because he promises to pay off the national debt within six months, cure all diseases and give everyone a million dollars, it's not the fault of the candidate if people are dumb enough to believe him.
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ZpikeJul 29, 2014, 10:12 AM
Wow! So many things are wrong with the way you think, I don't even know where to start. You have a terrible disdain for your fellow man and seem to have no sense of ethics and seem to revel in the thought of exploiting him. How sad.
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The other thing people aren't acknowledging (or aren't wiling to acknowledge) is that when they started getting unlimited data they could only receive 3G speeds (at best). So they did agree to a Kia Spectra (3G) not the Mercedes Benz (LTE). That Verizon lets them drive the LTE network at all is above and beyond what was agreed upon in their contract. If they wanted to strictly abide by the terms of the now completed contract (as some here have demanded), they should allow them unlimited access to the 3G network and no access to the LTE network.
Since none of the unlimited users really want that; my advice to those who are talking about suing to enforce the contract or take any other such action is to be careful what you wish for becaus...
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No lawsuit. In every terms and conditions section you sign when you get a new contract, it clearly states that the carrier can alter the terms of your contract at any time. The only catch for the carriers is if this actually happens, the consumer has a 30 day window to leave without penalty as the terms of the original agreement have changed.
in this case, nothing has changed. the consumer STILL has unlimited data, just at an incredibly slower speed.
if you want slower data speeds then stay with verizon. if you want faster 4g LTE speeds and no throttling, switch to Sprint or someone else/.
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