Motorola V710
FCC Consumer Complaint Form - (Form 475)
I have just submitted complaints to the FCC (www.FCC.gov) concerning VZW's false advertising and monopolistic behavior as exhibited through the marketing of a partially technologically disabled handset-- the Moto v710.
I do not expect that I will receive any direct response to these complaints, nor am I looking for any relief or compensation.
My main hope is that through a grass-roots consumer effort (which forces carrier compliance departments to respond to complaints) we can persuade carriers to adopt a common standard for open data exchange (OBEX and OPP) and DUN in the implementation of Bluetooth AND the advertising of any handset as being "Bluetooth enabled."
All interested should fill out this form.
http://svartifoss2.fc »...
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I do not expect that I will receive any direct response to these complaints, nor am I looking for any relief or compensation.
My main hope is that through a grass-roots consumer effort (which forces carrier compliance departments to respond to complaints) we can persuade carriers to adopt a common standard for open data exchange (OBEX and OPP) and DUN in the implementation of Bluetooth AND the advertising of any handset as being "Bluetooth enabled."
All interested should fill out this form.
http://svartifoss2.fc »...
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wnrussell said:
I have just submitted complaints to the FCC (www.FCC.gov) concerning VZW's false advertising and monopolistic behavior as exhibited through the marketing of a partially technologically disabled handset-- the Moto v710.
I do not expect that I will receive any direct response to these complaints, nor am I looking for any relief or compensation.
No, about all that's going to happen is that somebody at the FCC is going to look at it, mutter something about another crank, and then toss it.
I can and have quoted page and verse of the Bluetooth standard that indicates that neither OBEX nor OPP nor even FTP are required. Therefore, VZW is not falsely advertizing. I can also assure you t...
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Well said!!! this site was never intended to be a law and complaint session. It's too bad that there is always a select few who will find something wrong with everything. We all have our opinion on the way we think certain things should be. The mature people understand that things aren't always that way. The others just seem to b***h and it seems like now days everybody is looking for a way to capitalize on the mistakes of others. That is one of the reasons our country is going into the s***er. What Verizon should do is take away all of the play toy options on the phones and go back to the basics. Make the phone was it was intended to be used for (to make and receive calls). Half of the people on here that are complaining about the phone hav...
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Do Verizon rep's get paid to defend their employeer on this web site?
If not, why are you wasting your time?
I've submitted my complaint as well.
Enough of us will make a difference!
If not, why are you wasting your time?
I've submitted my complaint as well.
Enough of us will make a difference!
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I know that I am not a VZW rep nor have I ever worked for a cell company. I just think its stupid that you guys are complaining...You had to have known that this phone didnt have the features you wanted within 15 days so why didnt you complainers return it and get another phone instead of wasting pages upon pages of stupid whining and complaining? Would you buy a BMW without researching it and test driving it? Didnt think so...I hope the 8 of you are successful in your march to Verizon with your picket signs reading..."OBEX OR DIE." You guys are like the protestors that used to picket against "gangsta rap." They would buy thousands of the cds and throw them in a pile in the streets and burn them. The rappers sit back and laugh because they j...
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American User said:
Do Verizon rep's get paid to defend their employeer on this web site?
If not, why are you wasting your time?
I've submitted my complaint as well.
Enough of us will make a difference!
I'm not a Verizon rep.
Of course, you are entitled to believe whatever you want to. This is the Internet, where everybody's 18, female, and sexy. So if it makes you happy, you can think of me as a Verizon rep who doesn't happen to get a paycheck.
I mean, seriously, if Verizon was paying me to market for them, I certainly wouldn't bother responding to your postings, I'd probably be doing something a little more productive, like showing people cool features of their phones to try. Like using...
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wirehead said:
You guys are letting me down, actually. You could at least try to argue.
Wirehead, what did you want to argue about? Motorola and VZW have about 100,000 complaints each since about Bluetooth since the V710 was released.
There will be about a million cars on the road in the USA by January that can't synch with a Verizon phone. I don't know how many PDA's there are in your "Real World".
What "proof" do you need that VZW crippled the Bluetooth? Do you need proof that Verizon has not publicly announced whether this Bluetooth connectivity issue will be resolved?
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wnrussell said:
What "proof" do you need that VZW crippled the Bluetooth? Do you need proof that Verizon has not publicly announced whether this Bluetooth connectivity issue will be resolved?
Nope.
What I want to know is what law has been broken, how Verizon fits into a definiton of Monopoly other than "I hate them therefore they are a monopoly", and I want to know how the v710 does not adhere to the Bluetooth standard. I want to know what basis you have for filing Form 475 at the FCC and wasting some poor burecrat's time.
It's public knowlege that OBEX doesn't work on the v710 and you can't synch to it. And sure, there'll be a lot of Bluetooth functionality in other devices. That is beside the p...
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wirehead said:
It's public knowlege that OBEX doesn't work on the v710 and you can't synch to it. And sure, there'll be a lot of Bluetooth functionality in other devices. That is beside the point.
No, Wirehead, you just exactly made my point.
And yes, I did try returning the phone and they won't release me from my family share contract.
Thanks.
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wnrussell said:wirehead said:
It's public knowlege that OBEX doesn't work on the v710 and you can't synch to it. And sure, there'll be a lot of Bluetooth functionality in other devices. That is beside the point.
No, Wirehead, you just exactly made my point.
*Sigh*
So, what is your point, exactly, then? If Verizon isn't breaking any laws, why are you telling everybody to fill out Form 475 and ranting about it all?
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why does this thread still have legs -- stop egging this guy on -- I have filed out multiple complaint e-mails to both motorola and verizon -- to me that is the way to get your voice heard not here on this forum -- it is for different things -- so please we hear you --we have heard you -- take it to the streets
and god speed because we all hope that you are successful just wish that we could help since this is where you seem to think the help is
rob
and god speed because we all hope that you are successful just wish that we could help since this is where you seem to think the help is
rob
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Agreed. The phone stinks, Verizon stinks, but technically neither did anything that a third party can legallly complain about.
You can only voice your complaints to Verizon and/or Motorola, maybe the BBB, and the rest of us, and hope that, as a whole, the result is fewer sales of this phone. That's the only thing that's going to change things. The FCC won't touch it. They've got much bigger fish to fry.
I'm sorry, I share the frustration as many do, but let's be realistic here.
You can only voice your complaints to Verizon and/or Motorola, maybe the BBB, and the rest of us, and hope that, as a whole, the result is fewer sales of this phone. That's the only thing that's going to change things. The FCC won't touch it. They've got much bigger fish to fry.
I'm sorry, I share the frustration as many do, but let's be realistic here.
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wirehead said:...wnrussell said:
I have just submitted complaints to the FCC (www.FCC.gov) concerning VZW's false advertising and monopolistic behavior as exhibited through the marketing of a partially technologically disabled handset-- the Moto v710.
I do not expect that I will receive any direct response to these complaints, nor am I looking for any relief or compensation.
No, about all that's going to happen is that somebody at the FCC is going to look at it, mutter something about another crank, and then toss it.
I can and have quoted page and verse of the Bluetooth standard that indicates that neither OBEX nor OPP nor even FTP are required. Therefore, VZW is not falsely ad
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wirehead said:
"I can and have quoted page and verse of the Bluetooth standard that indicates that neither OBEX nor OPP nor even FTP are required. Therefore, VZW is not falsely advertizing."
Ah, but they ARE falsely advertising! Their website http://www.verizonwireless.com explicitly states that, via Bluetooth, the v710 can link with a PC or PDA anytime you want! LIARS! LIARS!
I filled out the FCC complaint, and urge everyone else to do so as well. If there's enough complaining, they'll HAVE to do SOMETHING!
--Dave
"I can and have quoted page and verse of the Bluetooth standard that indicates that neither OBEX nor OPP nor even FTP are required. Therefore, VZW is not falsely advertizing."
Ah, but they ARE falsely advertising! Their website http://www.verizonwireless.com explicitly states that, via Bluetooth, the v710 can link with a PC or PDA anytime you want! LIARS! LIARS!
I filled out the FCC complaint, and urge everyone else to do so as well. If there's enough complaining, they'll HAVE to do SOMETHING!
--Dave
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dsnelson said:
Ah, but they ARE falsely advertising! Their website http://www.verizonwireless.com explicitly states that, via Bluetooth, the v710 can link with a PC or PDA anytime you want! LIARS! LIARS!
I filled out the FCC complaint, and urge everyone else to do so as well. If there's enough complaining, they'll HAVE to do SOMETHING!
Yes, it's true. Verizon does not abide by the standards group they subscribe to - The Bluetooth Special Interest Group (SIG) which since 2002 is a trade association comprised of leaders in the telecommunications, computing, automotive, industrial automation and network industries that is driving the development of Bluetooth wireless technology.
They are instead tryin...
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The v710 does link with a PC and PDA for modem use. So they are not lying or false advertising. But I am not getting into this again.
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wirehead said:
I'd invite you, as well as most of the other cranks, to give me a reference to the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website that says that they must implement OBEX.
Here it is. Go to this page and you will see the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website.
https://www.bluetooth.org/docman2/ViewCategory.php?g ... »
Download the Mobile Phone Implementation Guide as approved by Bluetooth SIG Board of Directors,
Version 1.0 adopted on 9/25/2003. It is a 20 page PDF.
Section 2.1 covers Basic Functionality, based on the current understanding of the needs for phones
to provide good connectivity with PC's, PDA's, headsets, car kits and came...
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The thing that hits my 'hot button' is that this has been going on for almost 4 months now, and Verizon has yet to clean up their advertising on this phone. They're well aware of all the controversy and misunderstanding associated with their statement "connect to your PC or PDA whenever and wherever you want" --- but they have yet to clean up the advertisement let alone correct the BT issue at the root of the problem!
A company with real integrity would at least have issued a public statement addressing the issue one way or another.
I had promised myself not to address this again, but this issue really grinds me, and I can't help but comment. Sorry - I'll zip-it!!
A company with real integrity would at least have issued a public statement addressing the issue one way or another.
I had promised myself not to address this again, but this issue really grinds me, and I can't help but comment. Sorry - I'll zip-it!!
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wnrussell said:
Here it is. Go to this page and you will see the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website.
https://www.bluetooth.org/docman2/ViewCategory.php?g ... »
The recommendations are:
2.1.1 Bluetooth Audio (HFP, HSC)
2.1.2 Dial-up (DUN)
2.1.3 Synchronization (OBEX) Object Exchange
2.1.4 Object Push Profile (OPP) Object Push Profile
2.1.5 File Transfer (FTP to make files on the phone available to other devices and OPP in order to send files to other devices.
2.1.6 Imaging (BIP) Basic imaging profile to receive images from cameras.
Wouldn't stand up in any court.
This is the "Implementation Guideline", and the word used is "Recomended".
Now, t...
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wirehead said:
I'd invite you, as well as most of the others, to give me a reference to the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website that says that they must implement OBEX.
Wirehead: You challenged me to find the reference to the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website.
A standard is "something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example." What would you call the Mobile Phone Implementation Guide on the Bluetooth SIG website now?
Did you know that "Bluetooth" is a registered Trademark and you can't put that word on the box without permission and using the little (R) symbol either?
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wnrussell said:wirehead said:
I'd invite you, as well as most of the others, to give me a reference to the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website that says that they must implement OBEX.
A standard is "something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example." What would you call the Mobile Phone Implementation Guide on the Bluetooth SIG website now?
I said Standard. An Implementation Guide is carefully constructed to not be part of the standard. And I also said Must, not Should. Reading a technical standard is a little like reading a legal document -- you have to know the vocabulary and understand the difference between Mus...
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wirehead said:
I said Standard. An Implementation Guide is carefully constructed to not be part of the standard. And I also said Must, not Should. Reading a technical standard is a little like reading a legal document -- you have to know the vocabulary and understand the difference between Must and Should, between a Standard and a Guide, etc. I'm a software professional and sometimes we have to implement things with only the standard to show us how.
Wirehead, this is interesting, as I am a technical writer too. "Must" is rarely used anymore.
1.) βShallβΒ is used to indicate that a provision is mandatory.
2.) βShouldβΒ is used to indicate that a provision is not mandatory but is recommended as good p...
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wnrussell said:
The Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website lists provisions that are not mandatory but recommended as good practice.
So can we agree that the V710 "should" have OBEX, according to the Standard?
Ahh, no, we're on the level of brass tacks here.
The Bluetooth SIG's phone implementation group says that the v710 "Should" have OBEX. The standard says nothing about OBEX. Therefore, it's OK for Verizon and Motorola to advertize the v710 as having Bluetooth.
This is the distinction that is important to remember. You are preaching to the choir when you say that a v710 with OBEX/OPP/etc. would be far far cooler and more useful. But Verizon and Motorola are not doing anything il...
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wirehead said:
The Bluetooth SIG's phone implementation group says that the v710 "Should" have OBEX. The standard says nothing about OBEX. Therefore, it's OK for Verizon and Motorola to advertize the v710 as having Bluetooth.Huh?
What "Standard" are you referring to?
Bluetooth is a Registered Trademark now. Bluetooth SIG sets the Standards, which say you should have OBEX and you must use the (R) indicia after the Bluetooth name, to be official.
http://www.bluetooth.org »
You are looking at the old standard, "Bluetooth 1999", before the SIG became the Standard?
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wnrussell said:...wirehead said:
The Bluetooth SIG's phone implementation group says that the v710 "Should" have OBEX. The standard says nothing about OBEX. Therefore, it's OK for Verizon and Motorola to advertize the v710 as having Bluetooth.Huh?
What "Standard" are you referring to?
Bluetooth is a Registered Trademark now. Bluetooth SIG sets the Standards, which say you should have OBEX and you must use the (R) indicia after the Bluetooth name, to be official.
http://www.bluetooth.org »
You are looking at the old standard, "Bluetooth 1999", before the SIG became the Standard?
Here it is in black and white.
http://qualweb.bluetooth.org/Template2.cfm?LinkQuali »
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wirehead said:
I'd invite you, as well as most of the others, to give me a reference to the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website that says that they must implement OBEX.
Here it is. The documents are now downloadable for public use. Go to this page and you will see the official Bluetooth standard on their website.
https://www.bluetooth.org/docman2/ViewCategory.php?g ... »
Download the Mobile Phone Implementation Guide as approved by Bluetooth SIG Board of Directors, Version 1.0 adopted on 9/25/2003. It is a 20 page PDF.
Section 2.1 covers Basic Functionality, based on the current understanding of the needs for phones to provide good connectivity with PC's, PD...
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wnrussell said:...wirehead said:
I'd invite you, as well as most of the others, to give me a reference to the real Bluetooth standard on the Bluetooth SIG website that says that they must implement OBEX.
Here it is. The documents are now downloadable for public use. Go to this page and you will see the official Bluetooth standard on their website.
https://www.bluetooth.org/docman2/ViewCategory.php?g ... »
The standard recommendations are:
2.1.3 Synchronization (OBEX) Object Exchange
Nice try, but you are just a ranting lunatic at this point.
First, this is an implementation guideline. It is in no way the actual spec. For that, I suggest
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Frank: So is everybody happy with Verizon's implentation of Bluetooth now?
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wnrussell said:
Frank: So is everybody happy with Verizon's implentation of Bluetooth now?
This wasn't the reason for this rather lengthy rant, the topic was your misguided belief that Verizon was a monopoly and was falsely advertising Bluetooth. Both points have been proven otherwise, so would you please just stop posting about it!
If you want to get mad about something, rant and scream about how the fix to the majority of your issues has been in Verizon's hands since early September and they are too lazy to test it and release it.
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wirehead said:
I'm betting that when this semi-mythological firmware upgrade comes out, it'll support OBEX/OPP and maybe even FTP. It'll fix bugs. It may even make the camera quality a little better. But it *still* won't let you transfer pictures, software, ringtones, or video.
Wirehead, I thought OBEX would let you get/put pictures/sounds/whatever to/from the phone. If not, what the heck good is it?? Just for syncing the phonebook? I can do that with my old phone, without bluetooth!
--Dave
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dsnelson said:
Wirehead, I thought OBEX would let you get/put pictures/sounds/whatever to/from the phone. If not, what the heck good is it?? Just for syncing the phonebook? I can do that with my old phone, without bluetooth!
--Dave
Hee hee hee..
You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? ;)
OBEX will let you exchange the objects that the phone is set up to let you exchange. Yeah, on a fully unrestricted device, sure OBEX will let you exchange *anything*. But there's nothing stopping Verizon from just letting you send contacts and calendar info and one or two other things.
If I'm right, I'm going to be laughing for a full hour when I find out. Well... Scratch that. Two hours straight...
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wirehead said:
If I'm right, I'm going to be laughing for a full hour when I find out. Well... Scratch that. Two hours straight. Just because it'll be priceless to see you people get what you've been ranting about and still be unhappy. I won't like it, don't get me wrong, but I'll still be laughing about it.
My grousing hasn't been nearly so specific. The whole concept of OBEX is new to me. I'm grousing about plunking down a whole fistful of dollars and getting a phone that doesn't do what I was led to believe it would be able to do. I've heard they plan to block the ability to transfer stuff via the tf card as well -- dunno how true that is.
*sigh*
My phone hasn't even arrived yet... I'm thinking...
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Wow dsnelson, that is probably the most logical thing that anyone dissatisfied with this phone has said. You should be God to the complainers on this forum. I dont know why more people didnt do what you plan to do. If I found out the phoen didnt do what I wanted to do when I got it then it would go right back to the store. But these peopel want to rant and rave about it when all they could have done was just take it back. But I guess people like to hear themeselves talk...errr uhh...see what they type...or something like that...you know what I mean... π³
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dsnelson said:
My grousing hasn't been nearly so specific. The whole concept of OBEX is new to me. I'm grousing about plunking down a whole fistful of dollars and getting a phone that doesn't do what I was led to believe it would be able to do. I've heard they plan to block the ability to transfer stuff via the tf card as well -- dunno how true that is.
*sigh*
My phone hasn't even arrived yet... I'm thinking when it does, I'll just trot it on down to the Verizon store and swap it for a cheapie that just makes phone calls.
--Dave
Returing it within the 15 day period is a great way to show dissatisfaction because it'll show up on a balance sheet. Make sure you tell them that you expected it to be ab...
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wirehead said:
Regarding both OBEX and the disabling of tf transfer.... don't think of it as a fact until people get flash upgraded. I mean, they've been going back and forth about when the new firmware is going to show up and what's going to be in it. And nobody who claims to have an inside scoop has made any particularly correct predictions yet.
Yeah, you know what's weird... their website said I could get my phone in two days. That was last Friday. I checked the order status tonight, they said they "have received my order" and "check back tomorrow". Hmmmm... it took five days to RECEIVE my order??
Maybe I'm just getting my hopes up, but I'm wondering if a firmware change is causing a delay.
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Don't listen to the Verizon Rep's here.
They know that if we continue and persist, the FCC will look into this and something will be done.
the more people the better.
They know that if we continue and persist, the FCC will look into this and something will be done.
the more people the better.
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I agree... this "verizon reps" whole argument was that we could return the phone after 15 days. Well, what happens if you continually try to get the bluetooth working with your PC and work with both verizon and motorolla to get it working. Can you believe one day I actually had both a verzion and motorolla support rep on the phone at the same time! I was continually told that a "patch" would soon be coming out to fix this. That was about 2 months ago.
Yes, I will be leaving verizon, but its not as easy for some people. I own my own company and have about 10 employees vested with verizon. No, I didn't buy all my employees the v710, but I did buy one for myself. This will cost upwards of $1000 to move, but at this point, I'm feel so spurn...
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Yes, I will be leaving verizon, but its not as easy for some people. I own my own company and have about 10 employees vested with verizon. No, I didn't buy all my employees the v710, but I did buy one for myself. This will cost upwards of $1000 to move, but at this point, I'm feel so spurn...
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You know its funny that even though OBEX is disabled a TFlash card and/or a USB cable will do the same thing so why dont you complainers do use those accessories??
Oh and I have sent a complaint to Microsoft because I bought a Bluetooth keyboard and it wont connect my PDA to the internet nor will it allow me to talk to it via a bluetooth headset...If you want to see it go to www.youguysareidiots.com/stopwhining/suckitup .php
hahahaha π³
Oh and I have sent a complaint to Microsoft because I bought a Bluetooth keyboard and it wont connect my PDA to the internet nor will it allow me to talk to it via a bluetooth headset...If you want to see it go to www.youguysareidiots.com/stopwhining/suckitup .php
hahahaha π³
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uNt0uChAbLe said:
You know its funny that even though OBEX is disabled a TFlash card and/or a USB cable will do the same thing so why dont you complainers do use those accessories??
How do you do that with a Bluetooth car? How do you get the address book to show on the driver's console?
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We might just as well suck it up and dry our eyes as 'untouchable' suggests. I don't like this situation any more than anyone else - that's just how it is. Rather than talking ourselves to death, we need to just sit back at this point and see what happens, especially since somethings' in the works. We're all fighting a battle created in our own minds based on something which is very common in the high tech industry. The 'DeFacto Standard'. We get so used to seeing a technical way of doing things that we take this technique as a standard because it seems to permeate an industry!
"A de facto standard, for instance, is a technical or other standard that is so dominant that everybody seems to follow it like an authorized standard." (Taken fro...
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"A de facto standard, for instance, is a technical or other standard that is so dominant that everybody seems to follow it like an authorized standard." (Taken fro...
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wnrussell said:
I have just submitted complaints to the FCC (www.FCC.gov) concerning VZW's false advertising and monopolistic behavior
Monopoly: Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service.
Give it up. Verizon isn't a monopoly. Wait until you hear the firmware upgrade has been delayed yet again. (2004 is looking very iffy) They have had the upgrade since early September. It will fix almost every one of your problems yet they care so little about your situation that testing this upgrade is a low priority. That should get you boiled up again. I can only wonder what all you fake lawyers will dream up next.
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frank_the_tank said:
Verizon isn't a monopoly.
Then what was AT&T and why did the Feds break them up?
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wnrussell said:frank_the_tank said:
Verizon isn't a monopoly.
Then what was AT&T and why did the Feds break them up?
AT&T was a monopoly. They squeezed out every other phone company. It was AT&T or no phone at all.
Verizon is not a monopoly. In fact, you have more choice in the cellular market than you do with local phone service. There are 2 900 MHz channel sets and 6 1900 MHz channel sets, plus 2 iDEN channel sets. This means that there's the potential for 10 different, competing, providers in any given market. There is an alternative nationwide provider (Cingular) of rougly equivelent size and several smaller players.
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AT&T was a government regulated and subsidized monopoly before it was broken up and in general bore no resembalence to verizon other then the word phone and communication in there "job description" how old are you russel??
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spiff said:
AT&T was a government regulated and subsidized monopoly before it was broken up and in general bore no resembalence to verizon other then the word phone and communication in there "job description" how old are you russell??
I'm 47 and old enough to remember it..
You ought to do some research on the history of the RJ-11 phone jack and how that simple interface was one of the 4 events that led up to the demise of the Bell System and divestiture of AT&T. Ma Bell fought that thing because it made it so easy to connect, and they could no longer control the handsets. This led manufacturers and retailers to gang up to force Bell to de-monopolize and de-regulate handsets and open up the market to c...
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Russell -- to further support your train of thought -- we've already got number portability across the board, from wired through wireless. That wouldn't have happened if it weren't for customer demand. People were moving from land line to wireless, and the companies go where the money is at. They've got lawyers on staff who get paid no matter what happens -- so they don't care about law suits.
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Visioneer said:
Russell -- to further support your train of thought -- we've already got number portability across the board, from wired through wireless. That wouldn't have happened if it weren't for customer demand. People were moving from land line to wireless, and the companies go where the money is at. They've got lawyers on staff who get paid no matter what happens -- so they don't care about law suits.
Ironically enough, Verizon was the company most in favor of number portability. They were the only company *not* fighting it.
Where's the monopolistic behaviour there?
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None to be found -- but it further makes my point! They go where the money is at!!! It makes good business sense. That's what free enterprise is all about.
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Visioneer said:
Russell -- to further support your train of thought -- we've already got number portability across the board.
Yeah, thanks.
Portability with penalty has limited usefullness, though.
How much do you think it would cost to move a four (4) user Family Share Plan [2 w/ BT] to Cingular, equipment and all?
Take a guess.
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Wow you must have something wrong with you if you are comparing the Bell monopoly to VZW issue with bluetooth...There is no bluetooth standard...The only thing standard is the actual technology that connects the 2 objects together...If there was a standard then every bluetooth piece of equipment out there should be able to connect to the internet and share info. Whens the last time you tried connecting to the internet with your Moto bluetooth headset? Oh and how fast was your connection when you surfed the internet through your bluetooth keyboard? VZW is not monopolizing anything or anyone. They disabled one feature on the phone and it has caused hundreds of pages on this forum that shouldnt even be here. If it was such a monopoly then why d...
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I completely support this and will offer my help in any way.
Don't let the Verizon Reps on this site deter you from doing this.
I sure wont!
They should get a life.
If they are spending their spare time off of working at Verizon suring the Verizon web site, I think they need to get a life!
Unless they are being paid at the CEO level, which I doubt.
Don't let the Verizon Reps on this site deter you from doing this.
I sure wont!
They should get a life.
If they are spending their spare time off of working at Verizon suring the Verizon web site, I think they need to get a life!
Unless they are being paid at the CEO level, which I doubt.
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Why don't you just switch carriers and quit whining. Most of the people responding to this nonsense are not Verizon reps. With the amount of money they are being paid, do you really think that they give 2 s**ts about what a few unpleasable cust. think about their products? If you do, think again. It seems to me that you are the one who needs to get a life and while your at it learn how do read so that next time you will understand the plainly written advertisements about what features a phone has before you buy it.
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boxters2 said:
Why don't you just switch carriers and quit whining.
1. VZW promised the firmware in August and now it is too late to return the phone. This was after the store scammed me, because I did do the research.
2. I have a family plan. Even if I switched the car phone to Cingular, there are 3 other users who are still locked in. The wireless-wireless fees would be unreasonable.
3. There are going to be between 500,000 and 1,000,000 BT equipped cars sold in the US this year.
There were about 132,000 BMWs delivered this past year alone. They are all now coming with BT standard.
All of the car makers want out of the phone business, so they are offering BT, from Mercedes-Benz to Honda.
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as long as you keep buying the phones and the cars and you return neither only keep crying here. I cannot help you nor can most of the people who post here ( the ones who could are laughing at you by the way) Take this up the chain at verizon start a letter writing campaign, Start getting a lot (because there are so many of you) of people to start calling motorola and verizon on a daily basis. you will get more results by being a bug in their ear then by filing worthless forms everywhere that can be ignored. but stop filling this technical support forum with this crap brother. call repeatedly until they take your phone back or your car back or --hopefully your computer back
please -- i wish you good luck in your fight against the oppresso...
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please -- i wish you good luck in your fight against the oppresso...
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I don't think they will be able to hold out that long. I think that Verizon was not properly prepared when they released the V710. Even though we all were kind of freaking out because of the continuous delays with the release. I myself have a hi end car with bluetooth technology. Some of the issues with compatibility are also with the car manufacturer's. I also don't think the car makers were prepared for the demand for Bluetooth. I have been in the automobile industry for a long time. Car co. are notorious for releasing what is new technology to them before it is perfected. I know of several people that have Bluetooth phones with other carriers and are having various problems with transferring their phone books, ringers not working properly...
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I, as well, support this action one hundred percent.
If I can of any help let me know.
Thank you.
If I can of any help let me know.
Thank you.
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Filled out and submitted.
After I hit submit it said this form...
Is this correct?
After I hit submit it said this form...
Is this correct?
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SpecialEd said:
Filled out and submitted.
After I hit submit it said this form...
Is this correct?
Yes, and thanks.
We are really getting back to the good idea which started in this thread - https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/p_forum.php ?fm=m&ff=475&fi=116832
It's time to start doing it, that's all.
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The Phone and features section on the V710 CD (The CD that came in the box) has a brief description of the Bluetooth technology. The text on the CD states "From wireless talking to wireless synching, this phone makes it happen. Just hookup Bluetooth compliant accessories such as the Headset, Car Kit, Speaker, and be wire-free."
That is IN WRITING, and comes with every new phone.
The reps sold the phone saying we could use the features. If we misunderstood itβs our fault. If they lied, itβs theirs.
That is IN WRITING, and comes with every new phone.
The reps sold the phone saying we could use the features. If we misunderstood itβs our fault. If they lied, itβs theirs.
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You misunderstood it. Corporation have good ways with their wording. And no I do not work for VZW or anything close to it. "Wireless syncing" is simply "syncing" your phone with another BT object. It does not mean to sync the phonebook or anything else. It sucks that we take things like that but thats how the world is and we all live in it... π³
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I recently spoke to someone in Verizon Corporate in Bedminster NJ, which I know personally, he is in R&D and he said that with the # of complaints and the fact that MOTO already had the phone schedules to be FULLY Bluetooth, he said off the record that Verizon wanted to see how customers react by making the phone not FULLY Bluetooth and see how many people complained, for the fact that they wanted them to use the Get it Now feature and make $$$... HOW SICK IS THAT...but they had MOTO make the patch incase of public outcry. Verizon's excuse would be Security Rick involved, but so far he said close to 100,000 customers have had some sort of complaint about this issue, and they are planning to release the patching they have had since Sept. 1...
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macaddict315 said:
he said off the record that Verizon wanted to see how customers react by making the phone not FULLY Bluetooth and see how many people complained, for the fact that they wanted them to use the Get it Now feature and make $$$... HOW SICK IS THAT...but they had MOTO make the patch incase of public outcry. Verizon's excuse would be Security Rick involved, but so far he said close to 100,000 customers have had some sort of complaint about this issue, and they are planning to release the patching they have had since Sept. 18 within 2 weeks.. Thats all I know..
You'd be surprised.. ;)
This isn't the first time that companies have done this. This is why products are announced 3 years ahead...
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Since all of the whiners on here keep talking about filling out complaint forms.How can all of us who are sick of hearing about it fill out a complaint form to get the whiners kicked off of this forum. Oh I forgot, if we did that, they would probably get together on another forum and try to figure out a way to get a class action suit against PhoneScoop π
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boxters2 said:
Since all of the whiners on here keep talking about filling out complaint forms.How can all of us who are sick of hearing about it fill out a complaint form to get the whiners kicked off of this forum. Oh I forgot, if we did that, they would probably get together on another forum and try to figure out a way to get a class action suit against PhoneScoop π
Solution for you: don't read this thread.
--Dave
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wirehead said:macaddict315 said:
My personal conspiracy theory? I'm betting that it's an internal dispute. I'm betting that two factions inside of Verizon Wireless have been arguing about it, running the numbers, and playing the "Wait and see" game.
I agree with you, mac, and will keep you posted.
Thanks.
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How about this for closure (Sorry for the long post).
This is a public V710 forum, and they can complain all they want about the V710, as long as it is V710 related. No one has the right to kick them off.
Second, we all know that VZW did nothing ILLEGAL. We all know the marketing by Motorola claimed full BT capabilities, and Moto's marketing targeted VZW customers. VZW's literature makes it seem like that, but it won't be anything we can probably sue over (I'm not a lawyer, don't hold me to that).
Those of you who say to stop complaining are the ones who will enjoy the fruit of success when enough complainers make a change. If enough people complain, things get done. If you tell enough people not to complain, then nothing gets d...
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This is a public V710 forum, and they can complain all they want about the V710, as long as it is V710 related. No one has the right to kick them off.
Second, we all know that VZW did nothing ILLEGAL. We all know the marketing by Motorola claimed full BT capabilities, and Moto's marketing targeted VZW customers. VZW's literature makes it seem like that, but it won't be anything we can probably sue over (I'm not a lawyer, don't hold me to that).
Those of you who say to stop complaining are the ones who will enjoy the fruit of success when enough complainers make a change. If enough people complain, things get done. If you tell enough people not to complain, then nothing gets d...
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If we all take a deep breath and have a mature, level headed view of the situation I think we might agree that we feel cheated and mislead with regard to the features delivered on this particular phone, and a common practice by Verizon. I don't think (in my personal, non-legal opinion) that there is an FCC issue here. I think there is a claim of false and misleading advertising.
Motorola markets this device having a set of features, all being fully functional as the industry would expect those features to be. Verizon, brands the product and makes some very specific changes (read, 'limitations') to their product. This in itself isn't a legal problem. They certainly can deliver this product with any feature set they want.
Where Veriz...
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Motorola markets this device having a set of features, all being fully functional as the industry would expect those features to be. Verizon, brands the product and makes some very specific changes (read, 'limitations') to their product. This in itself isn't a legal problem. They certainly can deliver this product with any feature set they want.
Where Veriz...
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What ever happened to that guy in DC that had an appointment with a big/major legal firm?
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Somebody said that the product must be on the market for 4 months with a known problem before they can begin.
I haven't seen anything lately from the lawer who started that thread.
Never been a fan of lawyers, but the response from VZW Customer Service has been horrible enough to warrant one.
How crazy is is that there is a hacker's fund to fix the phone, thousands of posts on the Internet and not even a single FAQ about the Bluetooth resolution on the VZW website.
I haven't seen anything lately from the lawer who started that thread.
Never been a fan of lawyers, but the response from VZW Customer Service has been horrible enough to warrant one.
How crazy is is that there is a hacker's fund to fix the phone, thousands of posts on the Internet and not even a single FAQ about the Bluetooth resolution on the VZW website.
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wirehead said it well. In my case I was eyeing the v710 for months prior to its release. ONce it was released it was obvious from users that it did not meet my requirements so I simply did not purchase it. It really is that simple. The information was out there that bluetooth was not fully functioning and the camera was nto great and the.., etc. etc....
The point is for you to do your homework before making a purchase and in this case even after but within 15 days after your purchase.
We should send you a complaint for wasting the FCC time when I want them working on other legitimate concerns.
The point is for you to do your homework before making a purchase and in this case even after but within 15 days after your purchase.
We should send you a complaint for wasting the FCC time when I want them working on other legitimate concerns.
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I agree with all who feel deceived by Verizon.
For most people (especially those who had a chance to experience higher level of cell phone functionality that can be seen in Europe, where you can pay for a parking meter or get a soda from a vending machine using your bluetooth enabled phone) this phone is very crippled. If the phone is "bluetooth enabled" you should be able to expect some basic functionality. For example, my local CVS allows you to print prints from your camera and accepts a CD, all flash cards varieties as well as a bluetooth connection as an option to upload the images. It does not work with V710 as the file transfer is not possible. Also a very basic expectation is that you will be able to sync with Outloook via BT. ...
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For most people (especially those who had a chance to experience higher level of cell phone functionality that can be seen in Europe, where you can pay for a parking meter or get a soda from a vending machine using your bluetooth enabled phone) this phone is very crippled. If the phone is "bluetooth enabled" you should be able to expect some basic functionality. For example, my local CVS allows you to print prints from your camera and accepts a CD, all flash cards varieties as well as a bluetooth connection as an option to upload the images. It does not work with V710 as the file transfer is not possible. Also a very basic expectation is that you will be able to sync with Outloook via BT. ...
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There is no question that VZW should have handled the marketing differently but that does not rise to deceptive advertising or breaking any laws.
Any purchaser of the phone had 15 days to identify any shortcomings and return it.
Any purchaser of the phone had 15 days to identify any shortcomings and return it.
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-kb- said:
I agree with all who feel deceived by Verizon.
This phone is more limited than it could reasonably be expected - and this forum is a proof of it - if the phone worked fine nobody would complain here. How would you feel if you bought a car and found out that the driver's seat does not move and cannot be adjusted? You would obviously complain.
Thanks for your support on this. There is a forum of VZW guys who give reasons why the BT is functional, but I can't convince them.
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Thats why you test drive and research the car BEFORE you buy it. Lemme ask you guys something...How long did it take for you guys to realize there was no file transfer? Over 15 days? If you found out right away why didnt you guys return it???
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I think in a lot of cases returning the phone is not an option. In order to get a deal on the phone you sign up for another two year contract. Returning the phone gets you nowhere because you're still locked into the contract.
If you're intent was to get a fully functional Bluetooth phone -- you're still out of luck because Verizon offers no other options because this is their only Bluetooth offering. The only option is to stay on and fight!
It's kind of pointless to belabor this point because it's all been said on this forum before. Verizon didn't make it very easy to research the capabilities before buying either. The stores didn't know the facts, and none of our inquiries were answered with any sincerity. Most answers were aimed at ...
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If you're intent was to get a fully functional Bluetooth phone -- you're still out of luck because Verizon offers no other options because this is their only Bluetooth offering. The only option is to stay on and fight!
It's kind of pointless to belabor this point because it's all been said on this forum before. Verizon didn't make it very easy to research the capabilities before buying either. The stores didn't know the facts, and none of our inquiries were answered with any sincerity. Most answers were aimed at ...
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Visioneer said:
I think in a lot of cases returning the phone is not an option. In order to get a deal on the phone you sign up for another two year contract. Returning the phone gets you nowhere because you're still locked into the contract.
Exactly. The stores were being fed information that a firmware upgrade was coming, so most people would trust their stores, beyone the 15 day period.
Meanwhile, many users have family share plans, so it is again not feasible to buy 3 or 4 new phones OR pay mobile-to-mobile charges so split carriers.
Further, Motorola Online Support http://commerce.motorola.com/consumer/QWhtml/ contact_us.html also tells every user that a firmware upgrade is coming this month and...
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No where on that website did they say that a software upgrade would be coming this month. It said that an update MAY be coming but to check with your carrier.
Visioneer...Actually I had no problems looking into this phone before I bought it. A simple Google search gave me all the info I needed before I bought this phone...
Visioneer...Actually I had no problems looking into this phone before I bought it. A simple Google search gave me all the info I needed before I bought this phone...
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uNt0uChAbLe said:
No where on that website did they say that a software upgrade would be coming this month. It said that an update MAY be coming but to check with your carrier.
The Motorola website http://commerce.motorola.com/consumer/QWhtml/ contact_us.html returns a response within 24 hours like this:
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Discussion Thread
Response (Caroline M.) 10/30/2004 04:18 PM
Dear Customer,
Thank you for your recent correspondence with Motorola.
As per your reply, Motorola is developing a firmware upgrade at carrier's request that will restore the OBEX profile on the V710. It is scheduled to be released in November for Verizon customers. However, this quoted timeframe is not meant to be con
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http://reviews.cnet.com/Cell_phones/4502-3504_7-0-2. ... »
happy thanks giving and to all a good night
happy thanks giving and to all a good night
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Well what can I say wnrussell. I am not removing my foot from my mouth...BUT like it said its no guarantee this month...AND I agree with you that we should stay on Moto and VZw a@$$ if they are in fact going to release an upgrade BUT I dont think it is worth filing complaints in court and all that jazz...They said in your letter that November is not guaranteed so they basically covered their own @$$ because that means they could release it 6 months down the road and it still not be "in November" if you get what I am saying... π³
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uNt0uChAbLe said:
I meant I am NOW removing my foot...
It doesn't really matter. You seem like a good guy.
Thanks.
Bill
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No, thanks, but today after 4 months I finally received the FIRST written committment about the timing of the firmware from VZW:
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-----Original Message-----
From: VZW Customer Care NY-NJ
[mailto:vzwkanacsCustCareNYNJ@gl.verizonwirel ess.com]
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: RE: www.verizonwireless.com: Your E-mail was Received
(KMM16584145V98357L0KM)
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website.
We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry. This delay was a result of technical difficulties which has since been resolved.
The Bluetooth software upgrade for the Motorola V710 is scheduled to be released before the end of December 2004. This software upgrade will correct
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wnrussell said:
Please remember, as part of our Worry Free Guarantee if you ever have a problem, it becomes our problem the first time you contact us.
please excuse my language, but this is absolutely bullshit, im so sick of verizon proudly displaying this. Sure they give us answers for our probelems but everyone seems to give us different answers and its always the run around.
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you know that i have been a big advocate of take it to verizon but i have written them maybe 50 e-mail complaints and have yet to recieve any response. They suck when it comes to this issue -- i have been very pleased with them prior to this but am losing faith rapidly
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=3587702 ... »
this thread is on hofo and at first the guy looked like a crank but some people with credibility are now backing him. looks like there might be a possibility that when the flash comes out it will not address our problems only verizons -- mainly that we can transfer files via tf card now and they would like to stop that
not sure if i am 100%sold but be aware
rob
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=3587702 ... »
this thread is on hofo and at first the guy looked like a crank but some people with credibility are now backing him. looks like there might be a possibility that when the flash comes out it will not address our problems only verizons -- mainly that we can transfer files via tf card now and they would like to stop that
not sure if i am 100%sold but be aware
rob
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If they do that.... that is it for me....
Verizon.... Can You Hear Me Now????
I mean really... if they do that what would be the purpose of the TF card??? Sure you could store stuff on it... but if you can't transfer it to the phone??? Why???? Mp3 player only???
Verizon.... Can You Hear Me Now????
I mean really... if they do that what would be the purpose of the TF card??? Sure you could store stuff on it... but if you can't transfer it to the phone??? Why???? Mp3 player only???
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spiff said:
you know that i have been a big advocate of take it to verizon but i have written them maybe 50 e-mail complaints and have yet to recieve any response.
Rob - Did you get any actual responses and can you forward them to me - skypal@aol.com ?
This is groundbreaking but ridiculous, that we finally have a written response.
Thanks.
Bill
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No as of yet to date i am not even sure that an e-mail i have written has gotten through -- when i talk to customer service (living breathing) i am not sure i have gotten through so this doesn't really surprise me just really sad to see a company that at one time had such good back and forth with their customers shutting the door so hard
rob
did you see the top ten cnet turkeys i tried to post 3 times yesterday?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3000_7-5568107-1.html?t ... »
rob
did you see the top ten cnet turkeys i tried to post 3 times yesterday?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3000_7-5568107-1.html?t ... »
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spiff said:
did you see the top ten cnet turkeys i tried to post 3 times yesterday?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3000_7-5568107-1.html?t ... »
Yes, Rob, I certainly did.
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i agree with the mediocre photo's,but battery life is good and who knows what they mean by memory expansion could be easier than inserting a memory card. π³
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π³ π³ part of my post didn't post π³ i'll try again.i agree with the mediocre photos,but the battery life is good and who knows what they mean by"awkward memory expansion".what could be easier than inserting a memory card?
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wnrussell said:...
No, thanks, but today after 4 months I finally received the FIRST written committment about the timing of the firmware from VZW:
-----Original Message-----
From: VZW Customer Care NY-NJ
[mailto:vzwkanacsCustCareNYNJ@gl.verizonwirel ess.com]
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: RE: www.verizonwireless.com: Your E-mail was Received
(KMM16584145V98357L0KM)
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website.
We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry. This delay was a result of technical difficulties which has since been resolved.
The Bluetooth software upgrade for the Motorola V710 is scheduled to be released before the end of December 2004.
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ibeetle said:
Nah. I am sure they mean that they will give up a 20 million dollar a year business. Shut down Get it Now. And finally allow there customers do use there bluetooth phones completely for data transfer for free. You know like every other wireless carrier allows with there bluetooth phones.
Would you want to be the guy who has to tell that to the big boss?
I sure as hell wouldn't. ;)
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before it was the end of november. now its the end of december. π‘ next, itll be the end of january. do you see a pattern forming?
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After reviewing several articles in that past few days and from recent experience I find myself bitterly disappointed at VZW while at the same time humbly indebted to the founders of this excellent website for providing the needed and neccessary grounds to make accurate assessments & comparisons a reality and not something imagined or fictitious. Thank You.
NO! It is NOT! good business practice nor is it practical in this Information/Communications Age whereas the Space age has preceeded before to enforce a "DELAY" tactic on the release of consumer-ready wireless technology of this nature soley for the purpose of "stretching it out" so to speak, making available a little this time and releasing a little more next time, and so on i...
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NO! It is NOT! good business practice nor is it practical in this Information/Communications Age whereas the Space age has preceeded before to enforce a "DELAY" tactic on the release of consumer-ready wireless technology of this nature soley for the purpose of "stretching it out" so to speak, making available a little this time and releasing a little more next time, and so on i...
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MIRROR said:
Withholding Bluetooth full-capability from the consumer/customer in this manner is just plain wrong and will only serve to cast a lasting cloud of suspicion and disrespect toward VZW for evermore in the consumer hearts for "attacking" 21st Century technological wireless phone in this way in "an attempt" to boost sales and profits (bottom-line).
You are preaching to the choir.
http://www.canyouhearusnow.net/bluetooth/ »
Protecting the Rights of Wireless Consumers
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by wnrussell Today, 6:25 PM
Thanks for the link btw.
The more and better informed i (and many others) become on this this single matter alone, the gloomer the prospects appear that VZW will ever adhere to advancing it's consumer base thru simple cooperation of providing us with the FULL compliment of tools (innovation)already available to make the most use of both their (wireless cell) service (equipment) and the technologies that we all expect to exercise. Not to mention returning us our freedoms to allow us the choices to do with our own phones as we should be able to do.
At this point i'm not sure whether to chuck them off completely or what. In my own op...
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You are preaching to the choir.
Thanks for the link btw.
The more and better informed i (and many others) become on this this single matter alone, the gloomer the prospects appear that VZW will ever adhere to advancing it's consumer base thru simple cooperation of providing us with the FULL compliment of tools (innovation)already available to make the most use of both their (wireless cell) service (equipment) and the technologies that we all expect to exercise. Not to mention returning us our freedoms to allow us the choices to do with our own phones as we should be able to do.
At this point i'm not sure whether to chuck them off completely or what. In my own op...
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Then there is always a chance in this day and age that certain high agencies of this land (FCC) and various(Legislature Groups) will receive with much attention these and other consumer complaints and will step up to meet this injustice then force a long needed correction before it has a chance to progress any farther then it already has to this point.
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