Ok, ok ok, before we get another endless thread going. Schlittertex we know how you feel about VZW and that everybody disagrees with you, thats totally cool, lets just move on, I know you were trying to start another war but please dont.

Actually this time I was trying to present numbers based on a thread someone started recently. No one should get a red rocket for 500,000 more than a competitor if the competitor is still leading in the number of Customers, that is just stupid. That is like a football team scoring 50 points, when the other team scores 60.

Well 500,000 is 37% more then their 1.4 mill

So, in business anytime a competitor beats you by 37% it is a pretty hefty number.

Not if they are still beating you overall, because you are talking about ONE QUARTER. LOL

But they have been beating them soundly for the past year or so, so it all adds up in the end 😉

Anyways, Im done, have a great Halloween! 🙂

Happy Halloween!

wfine81 said:
But they have been beating them soundly for the past year or so, so it all adds up in the end 😉

Actually the last two years (and for a long time before the merger too), but who's countin'?
😎

SystemShock said:
Actually the last two years (and for a long time before the merger too), but who's countin'?
😎

Obviously, YOU! 🙄

Well win a quarter for once and I'll stop. 😁

schlittertex said:
Actually this time I was trying to present numbers based on a thread someone started recently. No one should get a red rocket for 500,000 more than a competitor if the competitor is still leading in the number of Customers, that is just stupid. That is like a football team scoring 50 points, when the other team scores 60.

And no team should try to win the game by buying 20M points. Do you know how Cingular became #1? It sure as hell wasn't by winning those customers over. They bought them.

Here's a homework assignment for ya schlittertex. How many quarters has Cingular exceeded VZW in net adds the past two years? That might wake ya up.

This thread is totally trivial, but to keep things factual...

Do you know how Verizon became number one before Cingular? Yes, it was a merger of four companies in order to compete with AT&T Wireless, the only truly organic company in the existance of wireless to have more than 20 million customers.

How many does T Mob have?

wfine81 said:
How many does T Mob have?

Over 20 million, last time I checked. 😎

SystemShock said:

wfine81 said:
How many does T Mob have?

Over 20 million, last time I checked. 😎

T-Mobile is not an organic company. It was formed through several mergers and buyouts as well. Voicestream and Omnipoint come to mind, but there are others as well. 😉

That wasnt what I asked, I was just curious, I use to sell Arial in our area before they were part of Voicestream/T mobil, I was just curious as to what their latest totals were


But according to your 'termonilogy" wouldnt nextel and Sprint be considered "organic" before the merger? And for that matter cingular would be considered "organc" before the ATT merger?

Nextel never reached more than 20 million customers before the merger.

I did forget about Sprint, but with the way they're performing, who hasn't? Excuse that mistake, but I'm not entirely sure there weren't dealings in there either. They always did claim to be "built from the ground up" but who knows what that means?

And no, Cingular would technically not be considered an organic company because Bellsouth (Mobility) and SBC (Wireless) consolidated their networks in 2001.

T-Mobile is not an organic company. It was formed through several mergers and buyouts as well. Voicestream and Omnipoint come to mind, but there are others as well.

Since we're keeping score on 'organic' companies (that's a new one). Omnipoint existed first and was bought out by Voicestream. Then T-Mob bought Voicestream. To my knowledge there were no mergers or buying up of additional companies, ala Cingular(existing network) buying AT&T(another existing network). T-Mobile is owned by foreign entity Duetsche Telekom. DT bought the Voicestream network, not a competitor. I would still consider T-Mobile an 'organic' company according to your definition.

Yes VZW was a merger of 4 companies and Cingular followed suit to not be left behind. But they still haven't been able to catch up or pass until the purchase of AT&T. That went really well, didn't it? They did move to the head of the class but ...
(continues)

trevor83 said:
They did move to the head of the class but they lost a lot of AT&T customers in the early part of the acquisition.

Where do you get that idea? Did you notice the extreme drop in churn from the quarter before the acquisition to the quarter after? It was half a percentage point drop in a three month span, which is a hell of a drop for churn rates.

Not one single quarter since the acquisition has Cingular's churn failed to decrease. So tell me, where are all of these fleeing AT&T customers that you speak of accounted for?

RUFF1415 said:
Not one single quarter since the acquisition has Cingular's churn failed to decrease. So tell me, where are all of these fleeing AT&T customers that you speak of accounted for?

Actually that ain't true, RUFF. Cingular's churn increased in Q3 to 1.8%. It was 1.7% in Q2. From Cingular's own press release:

"Overall monthly subscriber churn was 1.8 percent, which represents a year- over-year improvement of 50 basis points and a sequential increase of 10 basis points. The sequential increase resulted from normal seasonality patterns, the sunsetting of AT&T Wireless' prepaid plans, and from certain actions the company took to recover increased costs associated with serving the rapidly dimi...
(continues)

I mean they say that in their explanation and people do not even consider those.

That is sad.

Yes, it increased (slightly) due to those TDMA phase outs. Customers were basically told to upgrade to GSM or switch to pre-paid or somewhere else. Had not this happened net adds would had been very similar to those of Vz. But it must to happen in order to convert those TDMA towers to GSM. Once those towers are converted to GSM there won't be any hiccups and the GSM spectrum will be even better.

SystemShock said:

RUFF1415 said:
Not one single quarter since the acquisition has Cingular's churn failed to decrease. So tell me, where are all of these fleeing AT&T customers that you speak of accounted for?

Actually that ain't true, RUFF. Cingular's churn increased in Q3 to 1.8%. It was 1.7% in Q2. From Cingular's own press release:

"Overall monthly subscriber churn was 1.8 percent, which represents a year- over-year improvement of 50 basis points and a sequential increase of 10 basis points. The sequential increase resulted from normal seasonality patterns, the sunsetting of AT&T Wireless' prepaid plans, and from certain actions the company took to recover increased costs as

...
(continues)

trevor83 said:

SystemShock said:

RUFF1415 said:
Not one single quarter since the acquisition has Cingular's churn failed to decrease. So tell me, where are all of these fleeing AT&T customers that you speak of accounted for?

Actually that ain't true, RUFF. Cingular's churn increased in Q3 to 1.8%. It was 1.7% in Q2. From Cingular's own press release:

"Overall monthly subscriber churn was 1.8 percent, which represents a year- over-year improvement of 50 basis points and a sequential increase of 10 basis points. The sequential increase resulted from normal seasonality patterns, the sunsetting of AT&T Wireless' prepaid plans, and from certain actions the company

...
(continues)

I will admit to being wrong about Cingular's churn decreasing every quarter since the acquisition. I clearly didn't take a close enough look at the financial results when they were released a few weeks back.

However, this is indeed the first quarter that Cingular's churn has not decreased. With that said, this is also the first quarter that Cingular began sending out letters of notice to TDMA customers about the $5 monthly increase on their service.

The truth of the matter is that most of the remaining TDMA customers are low-usage ones, and they haven't had any incentive to move to a higher priced GSM plan with more minutes. They simply don't need them.

So, those remaining TDMA customers have started to migrate to GSM prepaid...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:
This thread is totally trivial, but to keep things factual...

Do you know how Verizon became number one before Cingular? Yes, it was a merger of four companies in order to compete with AT&T Wireless, the only truly organic company in the existance of wireless to have more than 20 million customers.

Hasn't Verizon added 20 million customers since that merger though? 😕

Vz's merger was in early 2001.
Cingular's merger was late 2004. I guess you can say that you are ahead by almost five yrs.
If you ask me; cingular has done way more than Vz over that past 2 yrs. Look at the networks. They are pretty much the same. There's a lot for Vz to catch up though. (Digitally speaking)

Ya kinda missed the point.. which was that VZW grew 'organically', post-merger, by 20 million customers. They didn't BUY that 20 mil via merger. Though to be honest I think almost all's fair in luv an' war. 😉

Also, I don't think Cing has done way more than anyone in the past two years. What they have done is most of the heavy lifting integratin' the blue and orange networks (gotta give 'em that) but both VZW and Sprint have deployed 3G faster. Also Cing still has quite a-ways to go before their network is overall as good as Verizon's.

Which o'course is why they keep getting' beat every quarter by VZW. 😎

SystemShock said:
Also, I don't think Cing has done way more than anyone in the past two years. What they have done is most of the heavy lifting integratin' the blue and orange networks (gotta give 'em that) Also Cing still has quite a-ways to go before their network is overall as good as Verizon's.

Which o'course is why they keep getting' beat every quarter by VZW. 😎

Well, maybe you should read up more on Cingular. Not only we merged, but they also integrated 13 networks (on both sides combined) as they kept expanding the network and upgrading the newly integrated networks to UMTS/HSDPA. Sounds like a lot of work to me!
"Quite a few ways to go before the network is overall as good as Vz's?" Not rea...
(continues)

Anxiovert said:
Well, maybe you should read up more on Cingular. Not only we merged, but they also integrated 13 networks (on both sides combined) as they kept expanding the network and upgrading the newly integrated networks to UMTS/HSDPA. Sounds like a lot of work to me!

Actually, its more or less a standard merge. Integrate networks, have problems, then get it together after a couple of years. VZW did much the same thing a few years back, others have too.

"Quite a few ways to go before the network is overall as good as Vz's?" Not really. Both networks should be the same... I just want to see the next drive test results. I can gurantee you things have changed a lot.

Then why...
(continues)

PS-- Almost forgot.. you can blame part of your churn prob on customer service too. It's still pretty bad.

SystemShock said:
Actually, its more or less a standard merge. Integrate networks, have problems, then get it together after a couple of years. VZW did much the same thing a few years back, others have too.

I think you're missing the point. When Verizon was created a few years back, they were working with one single network type.

Cingular did indeed have 12 seperate networks to integrate in two years time. That's quite an accomplishment any way you look at it.

2 GSM
2 GPRS/EDGE
2 TDMA
2 AMPS
2 E911
2 UMTS/HSDPA (however small they may have been)

You can't deny that is a tough feat to accomplish, and Cingular completed it with little trouble.

Your churn would also be at near-Veriz

...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:

SystemShock said:
Actually, its more or less a standard merge. Integrate networks, have problems, then get it together after a couple of years. VZW did much the same thing a few years back, others have too.

I think you're missing the point. When Verizon was created a few years back, they were working with one single network type.

Cingular did indeed have 12 seperate networks to integrate in two years time. That's quite an accomplishment any way you look at it.

2 GSM
2 GPRS/EDGE
2 TDMA
2 AMPS
2 E911
2 UMTS/HSDPA (however small they may have been)

You can't deny that is a tough feat to accomplish, and Cingular completed it with little trouble.

You

...
(continues)

trevor83 said:

RUFF1415 said:

SystemShock said:
Actually, its more or less a standard merge. Integrate networks, have problems, then get it together after a couple of years. VZW did much the same thing a few years back, others have too.

I think you're missing the point. When Verizon was created a few years back, they were working with one single network type.

Cingular did indeed have 12 seperate networks to integrate in two years time. That's quite an accomplishment any way you look at it.

2 GSM
2 GPRS/EDGE
2 TDMA
2 AMPS
2 E911
2 UMTS/HSDPA (however small they may have been)

You can't deny that is a tough feat to accomplish, and Cingular completed it with

...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:

SystemShock said:
Actually, its more or less a standard merge. Integrate networks, have problems, then get it together after a couple of years. VZW did much the same thing a few years back, others have too.

I think you're missing the point. When Verizon was created a few years back, they were working with one single network type.

Cingular did indeed have 12 seperate networks to integrate in two years time. That's quite an accomplishment any way you look at it.

2 GSM
2 GPRS/EDGE
2 TDMA
2 AMPS
2 E911
2 UMTS/HSDPA (however small they may have been)

You can't deny that is a tough feat to accomplish, and Cingular completed it with little trouble.

Its ...
(continues)

Very well said..

nextel18 said:
Very well said..

Thanks. 😎

Welcome. You got to be a very good and sound poster. Kudos to you and keep it up!

trevor83 said:


Here's a homework assignment for ya schlittertex. How many quarters has Cingular exceeded VZW in net adds the past two years? That might wake ya up.

Like this wont start sh1t? I feel another endless thread in the works here.

wfine81 said:

trevor83 said:


Here's a homework assignment for ya schlittertex. How many quarters has Cingular exceeded VZW in net adds the past two years? That might wake ya up.

Like this wont start sh1t? I feel another endless thread in the works here.

Treat it as a rhetorical question, we all know the answer anyway. Hence the reason schlittertex hasn't replied. Either he can't believe his eyes and is stunned after taking a look or he knows his original thread looks foolish now.

HAHA RUFF roughed you up with Facts.

schlittertex said:
HAHA RUFF roughed you up with Facts.

Blinders are wonderful devices aren't they?

But its been the last 3 or 4 quarters that VZW outnumbers Cingular... they are also leading in revenue and churn for the past few quarters as well... its not only about GETTING TO the TOP... but STAYING AT THE TOP... remember that!

It's seems to me all these threads get started for you not being on the 'top'
It burns you really deep inside the fact that Cingular still remains at #1 even though many analysts predicted Vz to be at #1 by Q1 2006. Well, it proves to all that there's nothing stopping Cingular. Verizon's chance is GONE! If they didn't do it (surpass) before network integration was complete, there is not f way they'll do it now. Do you really think that Vz has a chance? Especially after the heavy and aggressive advertising campaings that will go along the new (at&t) name change

How is VZW's 'chance GONE' when they just smoked Cingular by a half-mil customers in Q3 (your network integration is almost done, right? the quality is up, right? Yet yer STILL gettin' smoked?), an' a buncha the TDMA customers will be jumpin' ship when you guys cut off the network?

Look, all the guy is sayin' is your lead USED ta be 5-6 million customers. Now its only 2 million. It's not crazy to notice that Cing is holdin' on to #1 by its fingernails. They will probably lose it in '07, early '08 at latest. In fact they've already lost it if we're just counting postpaid if I heard right.

But so what? They prolly won't even care that much when it happens, so long as the profits are there. 😎

the_eraser said:
It's seems to me all these threads get started for you not being on the 'top'
It burns you really deep inside the fact that Cingular still remains at #1 even though many analysts predicted Vz to be at #1 by Q1 2006. Well, it proves to all that there's nothing stopping Cingular. Verizon's chance is GONE! If they didn't do it (surpass) before network integration was complete, there is not f way they'll do it now. Do you really think that Vz has a chance? Especially after the heavy and aggressive advertising campaings that will go along the new (at&t) name change

So Cingular's advertising the last 1-2 years hasn't been aggressive?!? Geesh, can't turn around without seeing a Cingular comme...
(continues)

Biggest isn't our strength. Best is. And our best today will be better tomorrow. 😁 And add to the numbers, lowest cost per user. Maybe the standard UI has a streamlined cust service approach for many of the customers and CSR churn for training and troubleshooting. Cingy can have all of that to deal with. All of that money can be continuously reinvested into the network and products. Notice how Sprint and Cingy battle it out for broadband in the adds? They won't even touch VZDub because they don't have the same extensivity of broadband coverage. 🤣 🤣

TechToyJunkie said:
Notice how Sprint and Cingy battle it out for broadband in the adds? They won't even touch VZDub because they don't have the same extensivity of broadband coverage. 🤣 🤣

Actually, Sprint's broadband coverage is more extensive than Verizon's. And perhaps they choose Cingular as a comparison because a) the technological differences give them the ability to misrepresent the truth and b) Sprint finds Cingular to be a larger threat in data than they do Verizon.

I really don't think either company is intimidated by Verizon's data offerings in the slightest.

RUFF1415 said:
Actually, Sprint's broadband coverage is more extensive than Verizon's.

You really believe that? 🤣

trevor83 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Actually, Sprint's broadband coverage is more extensive than Verizon's.

You really believe that? 🤣

Forgot to mention, why does Sprint compare themselves to Cingular in their commercial about broadband? Because they've got nothin on VZW.

trevor83 said:

trevor83 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Actually, Sprint's broadband coverage is more extensive than Verizon's.

You really believe that? 🤣

Forgot to mention, why does Sprint compare themselves to Cingular in their commercial about broadband? Because they've got nothin on VZW.

It might be helpful to you if you actually took the time to read my posts:

"And perhaps they choose Cingular as a comparison because a) the technological differences give them the ability to misrepresent the truth and b) Sprint finds Cingular to be a larger threat in data than they do Verizon."

RUFF1415 said:

trevor83 said:

trevor83 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Actually, Sprint's broadband coverage is more extensive than Verizon's.

You really believe that? 🤣

Forgot to mention, why does Sprint compare themselves to Cingular in their commercial about broadband? Because they've got nothin on VZW.

It might be helpful to you if you actually took the time to read my posts:

"And perhaps they choose Cingular as a comparison because a) the technological differences give them the ability to misrepresent the truth and b) Sprint finds Cingular to be a larger threat in data than they do Verizon."

...
(continues)

trevor83 said:

RUFF1415 said:

trevor83 said:

trevor83 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Actually, Sprint's broadband coverage is more extensive than Verizon's.

You really believe that? 🤣

Forgot to mention, why does Sprint compare themselves to Cingular in their commercial about broadband? Because they've got nothin on VZW.

It might be helpful to you if you actually took the time to read my posts:

"And perhaps they choose Cingular as a comparison because a) the technological differences give them the ability to misrepresent the truth and b) Sprint finds Cingular to be a larger threat in data t

...
(continues)

You also forgot to mention that Verizon is too ashamed to publicly state how many customers are on their EV-DO network while Sprint does. That is another sign that they do not have anything against Sprint.

Sprint advertises against Cingular because as you stated, Verizon is not their threat in that space while Cingular at least has a decent data network.

Sprint is doing a great job with their data network by the way.

Yes, I do.

He should be peachy happy now he got that cool trace phone from tmobile, and he can bluetooth pictures to his printer 🤣 You know a guy got to have a 'cool' phone 🙄 🤣

go go go

Don't you have sprint?

I was not trying to start a war but merely present numbers, if I want to start a war I will just jump straight to the low blows.

Go for it noone cares, did you get your super cool blackberry? just curious 🤣

No, its on order. But thank you for adding super cool, it makes me feel super cool, which makes my All Hallows Eve Super cool, which will make my All Hallows Day super cool.

No problem brah...Happy Halloween man 🙂

Thank you, Happy Halloween to you too.

lol

Thats super cool!

🤣 🤣