Phonepimp I'm calling you out
As an employee of the wireless industry you should have some kind of map tool which should compare coverage from carrier to carrier...for instance...at VZW we have such a tool...now in comparing VZW actual network to Cingulars actual network...I am able to see that we dwarf you. Now let me explain myself on that. I am not talking about extended networks whatsoever...I'm talking VZW owned towers and Cingular owned towers...just our own towers...thats it...as you know I do not just spew stuff out so I challenge you on this topic and this topic alone...actual company owned towers... the game is on...prove me wrong
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Phonepimp's face: 😳
Verizon Wireless, 40+ million consumers strong remaining the Largest Wireless Carrier in the U.S. of A.
-Verizon Wireless Authorized Agent 😈
Verizon Wireless, 40+ million consumers strong remaining the Largest Wireless Carrier in the U.S. of A.
-Verizon Wireless Authorized Agent 😈
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phonepimp3376 said:
Digital_Pimp's face:
CENSORED FOR SEXUAL CONTENT
Phonepimp's face: again 😳
Astonished at the size. It's ok phonepimp there is help out there for you smaller guys.
😈
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Dammit VZWMan, you always catch me at home for these things!
But Google and I are up to the challenge.
Last I knew, VZW had appoximately 20,500 cell sites in their network. If you can provide the actual number, that would be cool.
But Google and I are up to the challenge.
Last I knew, VZW had appoximately 20,500 cell sites in their network. If you can provide the actual number, that would be cool.
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And Damn it Phonepimp, you gotta alway catch me at work when I'm internet handicapped...I'll see if I can find something internally to look at that...but we're merely taking a look at towere #'s Cingular would have more because if I'm not mistaken GSM towers don't actually cover as much area as CDMA...am I right on that?
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I would rather not say so that the powers that be can not hunt me down but I am in the Midwest
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TheVZWMan said:
I would rather not say so that the powers that be can not hunt me down but I am in the Midwest
Here in the midwest as well 😎
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analog has a longer reach, I know... GSM radiates to about a 30 mile radius from my understanding.
Cingular currently holds 21,800 cell sites native, and will acquire an additional 25,300 from AWE.
We will provide service in all 100 major markets post merger, and currently do so in 87 of the top 100.
Cingular currently holds 21,800 cell sites native, and will acquire an additional 25,300 from AWE.
We will provide service in all 100 major markets post merger, and currently do so in 87 of the top 100.
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where as CURRENTLY, not talking about the merger...we have coverage in 97 of the top 100...still looking for actual towers...also that radius could be a little scewed there PP It really all depends on how tall the actual tower is as to what the radius of the signal would be
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Its really affected by so many things that radius matters little...without a clear path ALL wireless technologies are affected. Terrain, construction, even weather can affect distance traveled.
Therefore, barring any comparisons such as side by side drive-through, POPs and Cell sites are the best indicator of potential network coverage.
Therefore, barring any comparisons such as side by side drive-through, POPs and Cell sites are the best indicator of potential network coverage.
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but my challenge said nothing about POTENTIAL coverage there big guy...I'm talking right now...we'll see what happens when it happens...let's leave that be for right now
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As it stands right now, you have 10 more major markets than we do. We are not developing new markets right now because of everything being up in the air with the buyout. Instead we are inproving our existing markets by adding more towers. For example, in the Boston market, which covers MA/RI/CT, we have added more than 50 towers since the beginning of the year.
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Here's a thought though... if we have the numerical advantage in towers NOW, and are in 10 less markets NOW, what do you think the truth is about service where we ARE?
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If you add anymore you'll have to start tearing down houses...those 3 states are barely bigger than a 1/4 of the state that I'm in
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lmao...we do have INCREDIBLE New England coverage.
I get five bars on my Moto V400 in my basement!
I get five bars on my Moto V400 in my basement!
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Don't hang out in any, but my house is over 100 years old, so the basement is built like a tank!
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phonepimp3376 said:
Don't hang out in any, but my house is over 100 years old, so the basement is built like a tank!
Awesome....with the cannon and everything?
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TheVZWMan said:phonepimp3376 said:
Don't hang out in any, but my house is over 100 years old, so the basement is built like a tank!
Awesome....with the cannon and everything?
20 degrees to the right.....steady......steady..... there we go four bars BOO-YA!
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Dyingunman said:TheVZWMan said:phonepimp3376 said:
Don't hang out in any, but my house is over 100 years old, so the basement is built like a tank!
Awesome....with the cannon and everything?
20 degrees to the right.....steady......steady..... there we go four bars BOO-YA!
lol
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* always wondered why you had that pale skin...bomb shelter huh? * lol
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Well also cause I'm Irish...red hair, freckles, burns easily...good stuff!
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Dude...Long Island is already ours once the deal closes. The existing T-Mobile coverage will remain, plus ATTWS coverage and Cingular's will be there are well.
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you monsters, t-mobile will fight till our last breath, we HATE cingular 😈
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You should love us, if not for Cingular you would have lost national carrier ranking. we gave you coverage in NV/CA. We are selling you that network once the AWE buyout closes. A good part of T-Mo's coverage was initially from AWE and Cingular. We MADE T-Mobile in the beginning...lol
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Father the time has come..... I will kill you father! 👿
Plus we have an agressive marketing campaign all we need now is more coverage.... 🙄
Plus we have an agressive marketing campaign all we need now is more coverage.... 🙄
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You need more coverage, 850 MHz licenses, and a lot lower churn rate, although that is improving. T-Mo could come a long way by implementing a 2 year contract.
Why implement 2 year contracts? There are a few reasons:
1. APRU typically increases on longer term contracts.
2. Phone subsidies would allow lower equipment costs for customers.
3. Greater assurance of customers staying 'on the books' to generate revenue to expand network.
Don't get me wrong, I like T-Mo. But they are a long way from being a serious contender with Cingular just yet.
Why implement 2 year contracts? There are a few reasons:
1. APRU typically increases on longer term contracts.
2. Phone subsidies would allow lower equipment costs for customers.
3. Greater assurance of customers staying 'on the books' to generate revenue to expand network.
Don't get me wrong, I like T-Mo. But they are a long way from being a serious contender with Cingular just yet.
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lol...no need to take it like that. They are a young company with some great ideas. 850 MHz will give them better in-building service, which they will need to stay competitive with companies like VZW and Cingular. Its all part of the growth process.
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Yea i'd readly swich to cingular, if it was'nt for that SidekickII, damn that looks good 😛
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It is nice... personally I like the Blackberry 7280, but that's because I need the microsoft office functions, and multiple email support. Matter of what you need. Both support GPRS.
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I run an online comic I need to stay in touch through AIM, e-mail, and on the phone It helps to have all those divices intergated
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both, although i also have an e-mail account in outlook which, im pretty sure Sidekick II will support but cant be too sure....
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Admittedly, AIM is not integrated into the Blackberry. I use a Jabber plugin to access mine. Outlook would work fine on it, due to the Microsoft integration. Supports up to 10 email accounts and true web browsing too.
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yea sounds good if the Sidekick II turns out to be cheap like the Sidekick color then to blackbery land I go 😁
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I understand Sharp is building the new generation of Sidekick... not been too impressed with Sharp in the past.
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They are manufacturing it, although im not sure they're responsible for the design that's Danger, they cant be worse then the last sidekick's manufactuer
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Question Phonepimp...
Can't 1900 do as well as 850 regarding building penetration in circumstances where there are a sufficient number of 1900 towers in the area? I believe I have seen other people state in forum's that you can't tell the difference between 1900 and 850 "IF" there is sufficient 1900 towers and they are spaced not too far apart...Your opinion please...Thanks!!
Can't 1900 do as well as 850 regarding building penetration in circumstances where there are a sufficient number of 1900 towers in the area? I believe I have seen other people state in forum's that you can't tell the difference between 1900 and 850 "IF" there is sufficient 1900 towers and they are spaced not too far apart...Your opinion please...Thanks!!
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The lower the bandwidth, the better the penetration. It takes a much greater concentration of 1900 to offer the same penetration as 850 does inherently.
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phonepimp3376 said:
The lower the bandwidth, the better the penetration.
😲 will ya quit with the dirty talk PP...jeez1
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Lets be honest, Marketing is much easier to get a hold of compared to coverage. And really, your whole marketing is centered around Katherine-Zeta Jones. I mean, we have the Cingular Triplets.
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🤣 God i hate those kids... Ivy league, so I couln't get into ivy league alot of people can't 😢
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now be nice... they have come a long way from the cash-bleeding, teeny little annoyance they were a year or two ago.
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I have heard that it is around 7 miles. And from my understanding it isnt a actual radius. The tower has to actually point in a specific direction to be most effeciant.
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I doubt its that small, since EGDE has a greater radius than that, and EDGE is distance-dependent. Once outside the EDGE range, phones switch to GPRS seamlessly. This is true of all highspeed wireless data products.
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30 miles!?!?!?!? I don't think so! Any cell site by regulation cannot radiate over a 3-4 mile radius from the strongest lobe. 30 miles... Geeez will you baby's go back to RF 101!
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Do the math...the top 100 markets alone comprise some ungodly number of square miles. with a radius that small, no one would have the coverage they have. 20,000 cell sites would have max coverage of about the East Coast!
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not to mention, Citizens Band has a 12 mile range on 5 watts or less, with a mobile antenna less than 10 feet off the ground. Use your head.
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phonepimp3376 said:
not to mention, Citizens Band has a 12 mile range on 5 watts or less, with a mobile antenna less than 10 feet off the ground. Use your head.
so if the hypotonuse of 12 and 10 miles is... with what other vectors?.... argh how does 5 watts factor in!, whats the windspeed? where's my calculator, dammit I hate this! 😢
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phonepimp3376 said:
Dammit VZWMan, you always catch me at home for these things!
But Google and I are up to the challenge.
Last I knew, VZW had appoximately 20,500 cell sites in their network. If you can provide the actual number, that would be cool.
Somewhere around 20,500 cell sites is what we ended up with last year. We have invested 5 billion into our network as we do every year this year. So, there are more cell sites that have been put up. Nobody has those figures yet, except the big dogs up at Verizon Corporate. Might want to check on actual figures at the end of the year.
-Verizon Wireless Authorized Agent 😈
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We ended 2003 with 21,800...we will pick up an additional 25,300 from ATTWS for a total of 47,100 towers native to Cingular.
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How would one quantify the quality of a cell tower of one carrier versus that of another?
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lilgabe1 said:
How would one quantify the quality of a cell tower of one carrier versus that of another?
I don't know how to quantify anything... 😁
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TheVZWMan said:lilgabe1 said:
How would one quantify the quality of a cell tower of one carrier versus that of another?
I don't know how to quantify anything... 😁
I'm not sure either but I heard once it goes something like 1...2...3.....4 and then it's gets technical 😕
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Dyingunman said:TheVZWMan said:lilgabe1 said:
How would one quantify the quality of a cell tower of one carrier versus that of another?
I don't know how to quantify anything... 😁
I'm not sure either but I heard once it goes something like 1...2...3.....4 and then it's gets technical 😕
And when you get to 20 most guys have to take off their pants to continue... 😳
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Aleq said:Dyingunman said:TheVZWMan said:lilgabe1 said:
How would one quantify the quality of a cell tower of one carrier versus that of another?
I don't know how to quantify anything... 😁
I'm not sure either but I heard once it goes something like 1...2...3.....4 and then it's gets technical 😕
And when you get to 20 most guys have to take off their pants to continue... 😳
Really what would you count- oh....oh I get ya 😉
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Yeah, it'll only get you to 23, but most guys will get distracted anyway and forget what they were counting, so it's all good... 😉
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Quality of a tower, you don't decide... the tower is simply the structure. Its the equipment ON the tower that is important. Cingular, having just completed their GSM conversion networkwide, has pretty much all new equipment in place. ATTWS has done the same, in addition to having UMTS implemented in 4 markets.
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now of that 25,300 that you'll be picking up how many are you going to have to sell off do to overlapping coverage?
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Still not sure until the FCC and DoJ are done, but we will have coverage in all 100 major markets, and a decided increase in spectrum. We came in asking for a lot more than we actually need (IMHO) and if things proceed as planned, we will still come out with more than we actually need for UMTS/HSDPA deployment, which we hope to finish by end 2005.
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I didnt read any of the vzreps stating how many towers we have. VZW has around 40k sites, i dont know the exact #
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I got your back on this one PP! I posted this for somebody (I can't remember who) a few days ago insisting that Verizon would still have the largest network after the merge. I'm still waiting for a reply...hmmm.
I got this information off of Verizon and Cingular's OWN SITES.
Verizon: Approximately 20,500 cell sites
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/aboutUs/wirelessN ... »
Cingular: Approximately 21,800 cell sites
http://www.cingular.com/about/new_leadership.pdf »
(scroll to page 7)
Cingular+AT&T: Approximately 47,100 cell sites
http://www.cingular.com/about/new_leadership.pdf »
(scroll to page 7)
So let's see. Even assuming that one of Verizon's cell sites could provide twice the amount of service that a Cingula...
(continues)
I got this information off of Verizon and Cingular's OWN SITES.
Verizon: Approximately 20,500 cell sites
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/aboutUs/wirelessN ... »
Cingular: Approximately 21,800 cell sites
http://www.cingular.com/about/new_leadership.pdf »
(scroll to page 7)
Cingular+AT&T: Approximately 47,100 cell sites
http://www.cingular.com/about/new_leadership.pdf »
(scroll to page 7)
So let's see. Even assuming that one of Verizon's cell sites could provide twice the amount of service that a Cingula...
(continues)
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Two things here. Will Cingular own more towers? Yes. But you have to account for roaming agreements too when you are looking at the largest network. I am sure that there are many paces where there are ATT and Cingular towers that overlap coverage areas and I am sure that Cingular will not operate and maintain those towers. It would be wasteful spending. Who will have the largest I do not know, we will all have to wait and see, it will be very close. Of course at the rate VZW is adding customers they very well might maintain the largest customer base title, and that is much more important that the largest network.
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So you're telling me that you would choose a company just because it has more customers, even if there is a company with a larger and better network out there? 🙄
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RUFF1415 said:
So you're telling me that you would choose a company just because it has more customers, even if there is a company with a larger and better network out there? 🙄
If it was better, than why are more customers choosing Verizon? Why are we adding 1.5 million customers while others add 400,000 customers during a quarter? Cingular advertises just as much as we do, so it can't just be from "oh I saw that ad from Verizon, so I am not going to check out other Cellular Carriers, I'm just picking what I saw on that commercial." Verizon Wireless has won more awards than any other cellular company for Consumer Satisfaction.
And Cingular isn't Larger. Verizon Wireless Covers more Markets t...
(continues)
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Try 4 billion, first off. Cingular spends nearly that each year too. So what?
And as I said before, because of sheer size VZW had the edge for a long time. It was like the Yankees playing Cub Scouts. Now there's another major league team coming up to bat. One that has the size and talent to truly compete.
And as I said before, because of sheer size VZW had the edge for a long time. It was like the Yankees playing Cub Scouts. Now there's another major league team coming up to bat. One that has the size and talent to truly compete.
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Ah no the last two years it was 4 billion this year there is 5 billion budgeted, plus the 1 billion for EV-DO expansion. You are saying that Cingular can compete, How come VZW added over 3 times as many customers in the 2nd Q and twice as many in the 1st Q? By the time the Cingular/ATT merger goes through VZW will still have the most customers. It is hard to become the best it is even harder to stay as the best, but VZW is doing just that, doing what it takes to stay at the top.
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right, VZW will add 6 to 7 billion NEXT Q... bullshit. You act like the close of the deal is years away... estimates are currently looking at a close as early as October.
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If Cingular currently only serves 87 of the top 100 markets, Verizon, 97 of the top 100...what does that say about signal strength where it counts? If Cingular has 10 less markets to serve, and a good 1000 more cell sites, that doesn't say much about Verizon's metro coverage does it? Take NY for example...
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RUFF1415 said:
If Cingular currently only serves 87 of the top 100 markets, Verizon, 97 of the top 100...what does that say about signal strength where it counts? If Cingular has 10 less markets to serve, and a good 1000 more cell sites, that doesn't say much about Verizon's metro coverage does it? Take NY for example...
http://www.cingular.com/about/new_leadership.pdf »
Check page 8.
This is Cingulars licensed spectrum today. It shows it in this PDF that you posted.
Compare that to our licensed spectrum.
After the merger we will see what happens. But you can guarantee that Verizon has some things up their sleeve for sure. So when your merger and network compilation is completed, you might ...
(continues)
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Ahhh, but PhonePimp's future predictions are based on info that YOU are not privy to, but insiders are. Merely extrapolating in what I know will be best and worst case of the deal.
Did you look at page 9 of that same .pdf?
Did you look at page 9 of that same .pdf?
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phonepimp3376 said:
Ahhh, but PhonePimp's future predictions are based on info that YOU are not privy to, but insiders are. Merely extrapolating in what I know will be best and worst case of the deal.
Did you look at page 9 of that same .pdf?
Yes thats why I stated the comment at the bottom of the page smart guy.
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I've seen the map myself. It may seem that Verizon "dwarfs" Cingular when you look at the map as a whole, but what I'm pointing out is that Cingular is doing what is most beneficial to them. Its obvious that in many cities like NYC that Cingular "dwarfs" Verizon. With 1000 extra towers to toss around in 10 less markets, that's not something that's looking too good for Verizon. Not even NOW.
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Its fine, let them stay in denial. Its easier to kill a sleeping enemy... 😁
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This brings up the ugly issue of load capacity that Cingular reps do not like to talk about. CDMA towers can handle more calls per channel than a GSM tower can. This is a fact. This also explains why it is cheaper dollarwise to maintain and upgrade a CDMA network.
More towers does not = better service in this industry.
More towers does not = better service in this industry.
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Oh, and let's talk about NYC. During the power outages last year, there was 1 cell phone company lauded in the press by numerous sources because they continued to provide phenominal service to their customers while other comapnies were dropping calls or were so overloaded that their customers were receiving all circuits busy signals.
Take a guess who the one with the least amount of problems was....it wasn't Cingular, they don't even have towers there, it is T-Mobile they piggyback off of. It wasn't T-Mobile either.
Take a guess who the one with the least amount of problems was....it wasn't Cingular, they don't even have towers there, it is T-Mobile they piggyback off of. It wasn't T-Mobile either.
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https://www.phonescoop.com/articles/moto_2004_07/ind ... »
Take a look at the service bars on each phone, side by side, taken in NY. I think Rich can verify that.
Take a look at the service bars on each phone, side by side, taken in NY. I think Rich can verify that.
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obiviosly cingular was STEALING T-mobile's signal since they both share the same towers! 😡
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winks at her hero for the day "Yes that was exactly what I ment I know that VZW uses CDMA and that Tmobile and Cingular are GSM but within them being there makes it easy for us to show why VZW is the best"
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It's as least as good as a survey of 12 markets, or 31,000 customers out of 40 million.
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Lemme see... WSJ has always been favorable to those who are actually ON Wall Street? We're not A TRADED COMPANY!
See though, the 20/20 expose has one thing going for it that the WSJ doesn't... side by side real life testing.
See though, the 20/20 expose has one thing going for it that the WSJ doesn't... side by side real life testing.
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And were you one of the WSJ testers? Do you know what their testing process is?
I didn't think so.
I didn't think so.
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Like a reputable company like the WSJ is going to write an article about a company being the best in industry without testing? Please, get real.
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phonepimp3376 said:
That's why Cingular topped them there on 20/20, right?
What are you talking about i am in NYC and VZW is #1 here. Thats a fact my friend.
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There was a 20/20 recently that placed T-Mobile or Cingular as better than VZW. HOWEVER, they were using Nokia phones for their testing, which as most people in the wireless industry knows that Nokia is great on the GSM side of things, but are less than spectacular on the CDMA side of things.
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I think that's the most consecutive posts that I've ever seen made by one person. Good job PP! 🙂
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Don't congratulate me too hard, I started to feel like a knowledgeable Kingfrog for a minute there!
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I will agree for once with you Mr. Salesman, this isn't sales rhetoric. VZW isn't #1 everywhere, but we are closer to it than Cingular is for sure.
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For now, perhaps. And I never have claimed VZW isn't tough competition. But there are sooooo many that think they are bulletproof, when the truth is they have never had a serious challenge. Cingular is now postured to challenge them. All these folks that think business as usual is going to win, had better think again. Both companies will have to improve in areas they are weak, and both will be stronger for it. But to think that Cingular will not take advantage of any weakness is just ridiculous, and it is that kind of thinking I fight so hard against.
Upon the close of this buyout, we will be the ONLY serious threat to VZW's hold on wireless. We have the capital, resources, spectrum and network size to challenge VZW quite nicely from the...
(continues)
Upon the close of this buyout, we will be the ONLY serious threat to VZW's hold on wireless. We have the capital, resources, spectrum and network size to challenge VZW quite nicely from the...
(continues)
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Finally a post without your usual saleman rhetoric.
I couldn't agree with you more. Both companies are going to have to grow and chang...
(continues)
phonepimp3376 said:
For now, perhaps. And I never have claimed VZW isn't tough competition. But there are sooooo many that think they are bulletproof, when the truth is they have never had a serious challenge. Cingular is now postured to challenge them. All these folks that think business as usual is going to win, had better think again. Both companies will have to improve in areas they are weak, and both will be stronger for it. But to think that Cingular will not take advantage of any weakness is just ridiculous, and it is that kind of thinking I fight so hard against.
I couldn't agree with you more. Both companies are going to have to grow and chang...
(continues)
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No you have EV-DO in 3 cities, that is far from network wide. By your own estimates EV-DO will not be completely deployed until sometime in 2005. Compared to EDGE which is deployed over 2/3 of our network and will be completed by end Q3. We are slated to roll out UMTS in early 2005, before you finish with EV-DO most likely.
The fact is, while EV-DO may be a faster data rate, EDGE is the fastest available in most markets.
The fact is, while EV-DO may be a faster data rate, EDGE is the fastest available in most markets.
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What part of "VZW has EV-DO already BEING DEPLOYED(as in it is rolling out now)" did you not understand? I do not see anywhere where I said it was networkwide. EDGE is faster than 1XRTT, but EDGE is what you are currently deploying also, not UTMS.
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I have not said anything about us deploying UMTS yet. But having EDGE over 2/3 of our network, compared to 3 cities for EV-DO, still gives us the fastest data speeds in real world usage. Over 2/3 of our markets ALREADY have access to EDGE.
UMTS is in testing as we speak. It and HSDPA are being tested in Atlanta, with fantastic results. BAsed on our own info, and what our vendors developing the solutions tell us, UMTS/HSDPA will be ready to go on 1900 AND 850 before YE 2005.
The last info I had on EV-DO, and the current speed of rollout would seem to support this, is that VZW will have the entire network upgraded by late 2005. Which would mean if all remains as it is, that Cingular will STILL have the data speed advantage. Not to menti...
(continues)
UMTS is in testing as we speak. It and HSDPA are being tested in Atlanta, with fantastic results. BAsed on our own info, and what our vendors developing the solutions tell us, UMTS/HSDPA will be ready to go on 1900 AND 850 before YE 2005.
The last info I had on EV-DO, and the current speed of rollout would seem to support this, is that VZW will have the entire network upgraded by late 2005. Which would mean if all remains as it is, that Cingular will STILL have the data speed advantage. Not to menti...
(continues)
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You have to remember it may be ready to go, but how long will it take to deploy. Also once rollout starts it gets faster as it goes, this is just the natural flow of things, I am sure you know that as well as I do. I don't see EV-DO taking that long considering everything I am hearing is that the re-release of push-to-talk will coincide with the release of EV-DO and that that date is sometime soon. No exact date other than soon.
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phonepimp3376 said:...
I have not said anything about us deploying UMTS yet. But having EDGE over 2/3 of our network, compared to 3 cities for EV-DO, still gives us the fastest data speeds in real world usage. Over 2/3 of our markets ALREADY have access to EDGE.
UMTS is in testing as we speak. It and HSDPA are being tested in Atlanta, with fantastic results. BAsed on our own info, and what our vendors developing the solutions tell us, UMTS/HSDPA will be ready to go on 1900 AND 850 before YE 2005.
The last info I had on EV-DO, and the current speed of rollout would seem to support this, is that VZW will have the entire network upgraded by late 2005. Which would mean if all remains as it is, that Cingular will STILL hav
(continues)
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Okay, when you get done catching up to our current data speed across your entire network, you can talk about how EV-DO kicks our ass, okay?
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Well I will do that since I have never said that we are kicking your ass with our EV-DO...Come on now PP I know better than that
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I love putting phonescoop into Thread mode, keeps flamed stuff like this minimized so I don't have to see them and I can spot other topics easier.
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I'm not gonna bother catching up so ill just assume the VZW/CINGULAR feud continues! 😲
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gee, dakz... if I had a dime for every VZW rep that I have seen suggest the 3589i as the best RF getter VZW has for the money, I could buy Verizon!
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And I am telling you I know of no VZW rep that recommends that phone. It is the FREE conversion phone from TDMA to CDMA for those antiquated markets we picked up if that tells you anything. I go by what I actually see the majority of VZW reps using when recommending a hpone, and 90% of the phones I see are LG or Audiovox.
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And the 3595 they used to test Cingular's network is also a free phone - so whats your point?
That was the whole idea... use free equipment since many customers get those phones. The test was designed to simulate real world usage in NY-NJ. They didn't use the most expensive phones, because most people get the free ones.
That was the whole idea... use free equipment since many customers get those phones. The test was designed to simulate real world usage in NY-NJ. They didn't use the most expensive phones, because most people get the free ones.
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And as I said before, Nokia is widely known to be a great phone under GSM technology, but since they won't use Qualcomm chipset they are the bottoom of the barrel in CDMA. Comparing 2 different systems using a phone with those types of reputations that are widely known in both industries is a lop sided test at best.
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You must not believe what THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS saw with their own eyes.
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Just like the millions that choose VZW over those companies everyday? How about the millions that witnessed first hand VZW's reliability compared to those other companies during the power outages last year?
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And how about the ones that experienced Cingular's during the California wildfires last summer? We can do this all day
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Exactly, want to keep up this salesman rhetoric of "mine is bigger than yours" then?
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Duh...I have shown with factual numbers that Cingular has more cell sites than VZW. That is not rhetoric.
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Yes it is because we both know that load capacity on GSM towers is lower than CDMA towers. Number of towers means nothing in this business when comparing apples to oranges so yes it was rhetoric.
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not dramatically so.
And that advantage will be moot in a few months anyways. Even without the additional towers from AWE.
And that advantage will be moot in a few months anyways. Even without the additional towers from AWE.
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Not dramatically so? Maybe if you were only looking at a handful of towers, but when looking at 20k+ and all the calls they handle during a daily time period it is HUGE.
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RUFF1415 said:
https://www.phonescoop.com/articles/moto_2004_07/ind ... »
Take a look at the service bars on each phone, side by side, taken in NY. I think Rich can verify that.
Here are some links to varify that.
https://www.phonescoop.com/articles/discuss.php?fm=m ... »
https://www.phonescoop.com/articles/discuss.php?fm=m ... »
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even though the signal is less, doesn't actually make the calls not good. you can have one bar and still make and recieve calls as if you had 4
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~~turns her head to listen to the strings of the guitar~~ mmmm nice tune, what's the name? 😉
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I like having choices doesn't want to see any service die, then the monopoly would set in, and cause prices to sky rocket, and the phone comany would totally be in control...then it would be only a matter of time before it would be a communist environment, and then where would we be 😉
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~~chuckles~~ true the goverment owning everything including ourselves, would be delightful, they could decide where you work how much money you make and if you could move from your house or not.
Though health care would be great, trying to gain food when you are not allow, would be another story. 😉
Though health care would be great, trying to gain food when you are not allow, would be another story. 😉
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Don't start with the slavery again or i will bring out that collar I talk about the other night 😉
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dakz said:
This brings up the ugly issue of load capacity that Cingular reps do not like to talk about. CDMA towers can handle more calls per channel than a GSM tower can. This is a fact. This also explains why it is cheaper dollarwise to maintain and upgrade a CDMA network.
More towers does not = better service in this industry.
and also you are forgetting about tdma towers.
total # of towers is great. but how many of them are TDMA?
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The discussion was Digital Towers. Last I knew TDMA was the Analog version of GSM.
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TDMA is first generation digital. no TDMA towers in that count because all of our postpaid towers were converted to GSM.
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None. The PDF I posted contained information only on the GSM portion of both companies. Sorry, you don't have us there.
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Only TDMA towers we have are BCG Prepaid... not counted in network count
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RUFF1415 said:
If Cingular currently only serves 87 of the top 100 markets, Verizon, 97 of the top 100...what does that say about signal strength where it counts? If Cingular has 10 less markets to serve, and a good 1000 more cell sites, that doesn't say much about Verizon's metro coverage does it? Take NY for example...
Are those coverage sites? Penetration Sites? Or capacity sites? Are you including enhancers as cell sites? Are you aware that your GSM network only has about 1/4 the capacity of a CDMA-2000 network? So it could only mean that you are taxing your underpowered network.
It says nothing about VZW's service because you are not comparing apples to apples. Is Cingular on 800/850 MHZ or 1900MHZ...
(continues)
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Digital Pimp said:...RUFF1415 said:
So you're telling me that you would choose a company just because it has more customers, even if there is a company with a larger and better network out there? 🙄
If it was better, than why are more customers choosing Verizon? Why are we adding 1.5 million customers while others add 400,000 customers during a quarter? Cingular advertises just as much as we do, so it can't just be from "oh I saw that ad from Verizon, so I am not going to check out other Cellular Carriers, I'm just picking what I saw on that commercial." Verizon Wireless has won more awards than any other cellular company for Consumer Satisfaction.
And Cingular isn't Larger.
(continues)
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Verizon also has one of the HIGHEST complaint rates for handsets. Nice to have a network you can complete a call on almost anywhere, now how about a PHONE to access it? We've all heard (and seen posted here) Verizon customers who have had 3, 4, 5 or more phones in a 2 year period due to all sorts of problems, from phones falling apart, batteries causing burns or exploding, programming getting lost. phones that forget how to access the network, etc. Why don't the other carriers have a consistent problem with this? Especially with all that 'rigorous testing'. Then let's look at the V710 and how Verizon hyped it to death, then CRIPPLED its most attractive feature in many folk's minds, the BT functionality.
Nice try
Nice try
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Is the V710 the one that comes in copper,
DAMN thats ugly, and kinda stupid cause the battery life is about, retarted hours long
DAMN thats ugly, and kinda stupid cause the battery life is about, retarted hours long
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Dyingunman said:
Is the V710 the one that comes in copper,
DAMN thats ugly, and kinda stupid cause the battery life is about, retarted hours long
my mistake thats a motorola phone
I forget which
It's still ugly
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phonepimp3376 said:...
Verizon also has one of the HIGHEST complaint rates for handsets. Nice to have a network you can complete a call on almost anywhere, now how about a PHONE to access it? We've all heard (and seen posted here) Verizon customers who have had 3, 4, 5 or more phones in a 2 year period due to all sorts of problems, from phones falling apart, batteries causing burns or exploding, programming getting lost. phones that forget how to access the network, etc. Why don't the other carriers have a consistent problem with this? Especially with all that 'rigorous testing'. Then let's look at the V710 and how Verizon hyped it to death, then CRIPPLED its most attractive feature in many folk's minds, the BT functionality
(continues)
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I have been with Cingular for quite a while, and the MOST I have ever seen in a two year period is two.
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Where is your source? I have never seen a report anywhere that states anything like this.
Is it possible? Yes, VZW also has nearly twice the number of customers as Cingular. We have nearly the amount of customers as Cingular and AWE combined. I can see where it wouldn't be a stretch to say this considering we have more mouths to complain than you do.
Is it possible? Yes, VZW also has nearly twice the number of customers as Cingular. We have nearly the amount of customers as Cingular and AWE combined. I can see where it wouldn't be a stretch to say this considering we have more mouths to complain than you do.
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Hell, there have been numerous reports of 4,5, 6...as many as 8 right here on PScoop. You make me laugh.
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And like it was stated before. Cingular has their share of phone problems I am sure as well, tell me different and I will have to say BULLSHEETZ!
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Typical salesman answer. Redirect to the spotlight on the good points but ignore the negatives and hope the other person does too.
I want the article that says VZW has the highest phone exchange rate, not just what your opinion is. You stated it, now I am calling your bluff. Ante up or fold.
I want the article that says VZW has the highest phone exchange rate, not just what your opinion is. You stated it, now I am calling your bluff. Ante up or fold.
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I never stated I had an article. So when you folks give me the THIRD PARTY DRIVE TEST info that states VZW has the most reliable network, I'll show you MY article I never claimed to have. But answer me this: When's the last time CINGULAR was in the press for exploding phones, or batteries that BURN people?
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And if you had read that article, you would know that those were batteries made by fraudulant companies and sold as the actual manufacturers product to both the retailers that sold them and public that bought them. VZW took the hit for it though and offered free replacements to those this happened to.
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I did read the article, but if those phones were sold at VZW stores, how did the fraudulent batteries get IN them? Especially considering people swore under oath that they had purchased no other battery?
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Actually, more customers on a smaller network is a recipe for disaster. One of the biggest complaints I hear from VZW customers considering Cingular is signal degradation. They used to be able to get x signal in a place and now get y signal, for example, a drop from 4 bars to 2 bars, decreased call quality, more dropped calls.
Put 20 people in a lifeboat, and you're fine if that boat is designed for 30, but not so good if its designed for 10.
Put 40 million customers on a network thats not growing fast enough to meet demands, and you get signal degradation.
Put 25 million on a network that can support 40 million, and life is good.
Put 20 people in a lifeboat, and you're fine if that boat is designed for 30, but not so good if its designed for 10.
Put 40 million customers on a network thats not growing fast enough to meet demands, and you get signal degradation.
Put 25 million on a network that can support 40 million, and life is good.
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You are also forgetting to account for the number of towers that both companies are going to be forced to sell off since the FCC will not allow a company to control both the A & B channels in a market, and also what markets they will loose altogether since the FCC will not let companies have 100% coverage in all 100 of the top markets. Just like when VZW was being formed from mergers and had to sell the GTE Florida market to Alltel, and why VZW to this day does not have coverage in Oklahoma City.
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We will come out of the deal with coverage in 97 of the top 100 markets. A deal AWE, Cingular and Triton have made which will take place post-close of the buyout will provide coverage in the remaining 3 markets. Even if Cingular has to sell off HALF the AWE towers, they will still retain some 12,650 towers, 21,800 + 12,650 = 34,450... easily larger than VZW's native network.
As it stands now digital vs. digital, Cingular holds the edge on network size, but not markets served. Cingular also has the largest Free Calling area in the US. So it only makes sense that when we come out of the AWE deal, we will have VZW in native network size AND markets covered.
As it stands now digital vs. digital, Cingular holds the edge on network size, but not markets served. Cingular also has the largest Free Calling area in the US. So it only makes sense that when we come out of the AWE deal, we will have VZW in native network size AND markets covered.
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Of course it makes sense, but stating with raw numbers now what the network will be after a future merger that may or may not go through fully depending on what the FCC and DoJ finalize, plus what hasn't even been decided upon as far as what you will have to loose is a skewed number. Which is what I was pointing out.
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OH GOD STOP IT!!!
when the merger is complete and that network does go up then and ONLY THEN will we see who's network will be larger and cover more area rome wasn't built in a day 🤣
when the merger is complete and that network does go up then and ONLY THEN will we see who's network will be larger and cover more area rome wasn't built in a day 🤣
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We ALREADY know as it stands now... we have more cell sites than VZW. Simple as that.
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🤣 If that's true then as far as coverage goes verizon is screwed after the merger
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phonepimp3376 said:
We ALREADY know as it stands now... we have more cell sites than VZW. Simple as that.
That was year end 2003 guys. It's almost year end 2004 and Verizon invests more money in their network than Cingular. You don't see anywhwere where Cingular is investing 5 BILLION dollars on their network every year like Verizon. And MARKETS COVERED is alot more important than how many cell sites u have obviously since more customers are choosing Verizon. Until Cingular FINISHES the buyout and merger with ATTWS, nobody knows what is going to happen. Until then it is just opinion and futuristic stats.
I wonder how come Cingular's subscribers went DOWN last quarter compared to last year? 100,0...
(continues)
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Wow, that long? EDGE will be fully up by end 2004. UMTS will be in place before you finish EV-DO. LOL
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phonepimp3376 said:
Wow, that long? EDGE will be fully up by end 2004. UMTS will be in place before you finish EV-DO. LOL
Funny how you don't respond to anything else in my thread but that. By the way...EDGE doesn't drive 100% of your customers. Making and receiving calls does.
and we are now:
Wireless Phone Customers 40 Million
Employees 40,000
Annual Revenue 2003 $22.5 Billion
U.S. Market Coverage 49 of Top 50; 97 of Top 100
Company Stores and Kiosks 1,200
Digital Network Technology Code Division Multiple Access [CDMA]
Data Services First national high-speed data network. First downloadable applications over the air onto phones
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(continues)
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And we're still the number 1 GSM carrier in America, even though we just finished GSM conversion less than 3 months ago.
We spent just shy of 4 billion ourselves last year, and added over 400 towers nationwide.
We were the first carrier to deploy EDGE worldwide.
We have the edge in largest free calling area in America.
While your service requires two networks to provide all your services (Enhanced network) Ours function not only one one network, but also across networks.
Highest quality voice service was determined to be on GSM - the truest sound in wireless.
And you act like no one else maintains their network or is reliable. Then why does Telephia place our network above yours in many critical markets?
Lastly, because ...
(continues)
We spent just shy of 4 billion ourselves last year, and added over 400 towers nationwide.
We were the first carrier to deploy EDGE worldwide.
We have the edge in largest free calling area in America.
While your service requires two networks to provide all your services (Enhanced network) Ours function not only one one network, but also across networks.
Highest quality voice service was determined to be on GSM - the truest sound in wireless.
And you act like no one else maintains their network or is reliable. Then why does Telephia place our network above yours in many critical markets?
Lastly, because ...
(continues)
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phonepimp3376 said:
We were the first carrier to deploy EDGE worldwide.
and there my friend is where he has you,
high speed wireless internet is unfortunatley the wave of the future
and so far cingular has been the fastest to deploy, well the fastest internet speeds... 😕
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phonepimp3376 said:...
And we're still the number 1 GSM carrier in America, even though we just finished GSM conversion less than 3 months ago.
We spent just shy of 4 billion ourselves last year, and added over 400 towers nationwide.
We were the first carrier to deploy EDGE worldwide.
We have the edge in largest free calling area in America.
While your service requires two networks to provide all your services (Enhanced network) Ours function not only one one network, but also across networks.
Highest quality voice service was determined to be on GSM - the truest sound in wireless.
And you act like no one else maintains their network or is reliable. Then why does Telephia place our network above yours in ma
(continues)
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Name one carrier who has had the network coverage or network size to challenge VZW before now. You can't. Prior to now, it's been like the Yankees playing a Cub Scout troop. That has changed, my friend.
Here now FACT: More current cell sites
Here now FACT: larger all digital call for free calling area
Here now FACT: Larger high speed data network
Here now FACT: 80% of the Fortune 1000 use our wireless email solutions.
Here now FACT: Only network in America where every service and feature works on the entire network.
Here now FACT: UMTS, which will double call capacity of the network, in testing currently. UMTS paves the way for HSDPA, with data speeds up to 14.4 MBps.
Here now FACT: EDGE on 2/3 of network, expected complete network ...
(continues)
Here now FACT: More current cell sites
Here now FACT: larger all digital call for free calling area
Here now FACT: Larger high speed data network
Here now FACT: 80% of the Fortune 1000 use our wireless email solutions.
Here now FACT: Only network in America where every service and feature works on the entire network.
Here now FACT: UMTS, which will double call capacity of the network, in testing currently. UMTS paves the way for HSDPA, with data speeds up to 14.4 MBps.
Here now FACT: EDGE on 2/3 of network, expected complete network ...
(continues)
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I welcome Cingular, and I work for VZW customer service. VZW needs to be disciplined. Bring the pain. 😁
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phonepimp3376 said:
Name one carrier who has had the network coverage or network size to challenge VZW before now. You can't. Prior to now, it's been like the Yankees playing a Cub Scout troop. That has changed, my friend.
Competition is good, it keeps prices down for the consumer. I am all for free market and free enterprise.
phonepimp3376 said:
Here now FACT: More current cell sites
Comparing now stats with End of 2003? Ok. Let's see what End of 2004 does.
phonepimp3376 said:
Here now FACT: larger all digital call for free calling area
That's more a marketing issue than a network issue. If VZW added M2M on the extended network ...
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It's true Nextel, is overall better for busnesses plus you can give most of their phones a good beating and they take it. Good for construction workers. And they have that ultra quick Direct Connect walkie talkie feature, also helpful to construction.
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dakz said:...phonepimp3376 said:
Name one carrier who has had the network coverage or network size to challenge VZW before now. You can't. Prior to now, it's been like the Yankees playing a Cub Scout troop. That has changed, my friend.
Competition is good, it keeps prices down for the consumer. I am all for free market and free enterprise.phonepimp3376 said:
Here now FACT: More current cell sites
Comparing now stats with End of 2003? Ok. Let's see what End of 2004 does.phonepimp3376 said:
Here now FACT: larger all digital call for free calling area
That's more a marketing issue than a network issue. If VZW add
(continues)
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Raw numbers as it stands right now, we lead VZW in network size, but not in markets served.
So while VZW can boast the larger coverage, they cannot lay claim to largest native network.
Post deal, we gain 13 markets that we are not in, so the FCC cannot keep us from being there. those thirteen, plus our existing 87, brigs us to all 100 top markets. These are the only numbers we can possibly know at this time.
So while VZW can boast the larger coverage, they cannot lay claim to largest native network.
Post deal, we gain 13 markets that we are not in, so the FCC cannot keep us from being there. those thirteen, plus our existing 87, brigs us to all 100 top markets. These are the only numbers we can possibly know at this time.
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VZW_MAN regurgitating the SOS.
More Coverage... in places where there is very little traffic (mostly older Analog areas that are going away in a couple of years). Don't think so, then why do they sell digital only phones and the tri-mode's are phasing out?
Also, no carrier actually "owns" towers. They ALL lease them from companies that build them then lease them to various providers. Noticed more than one set of antennas on a single tower? If you don't believe this, drive up to a tower and read the emergency contact information, it will be a tower company, not a cell phone company.
So once again, VZW_MAN is misguided and uninformed.
More Coverage... in places where there is very little traffic (mostly older Analog areas that are going away in a couple of years). Don't think so, then why do they sell digital only phones and the tri-mode's are phasing out?
Also, no carrier actually "owns" towers. They ALL lease them from companies that build them then lease them to various providers. Noticed more than one set of antennas on a single tower? If you don't believe this, drive up to a tower and read the emergency contact information, it will be a tower company, not a cell phone company.
So once again, VZW_MAN is misguided and uninformed.
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badsky2k said:
VZW_MAN regurgitating the SOS.
More Coverage... in places where there is very little traffic (mostly older Analog areas that are going away in a couple of years). Don't think so, then why do they sell digital only phones and the tri-mode's are phasing out?
Also, no carrier actually "owns" towers. They ALL lease them from companies that build them then lease them to various providers. Noticed more than one set of antennas on a single tower? If you don't believe this, drive up to a tower and read the emergency contact information, it will be a tower company, not a cell phone company.
So once again, VZW_MAN is misguided and uninformed.
Thats it man, next vacation... cell phone tower
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Also Badsky, I am not VZW_MAN...I am TheVZWMan...I am a different intenty and I am not part of a collective
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Technicalities my kind sir...the point I was trying to make is if you take away all the roaming agreements and extended networks VZW has a bigger coverage area than Cingular...pure and simple...if you disagree that fine, you have that right but back it up big guy...show me some proof
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I have never said it wasn't larger native coverage. I HAVE, however said we have larger DIGITAL coverage. That remains true. By year's end it will be moot anyway, as our native coverage will more than double yours.
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think about it VZWMan... we gain over 25K cell sites, and 13 markets we are not in. Those 13 markets the FCC cannot limit us on, because the whole purpose of all this is to decise where we would have a significantly unfair advantage. We couldn't have a significantly unfair advantage in an area we are not IN yet, So those are a given. Even if the FCC decides we can't use half of those sites, that would still give us an infrastructure gain in cell sites of 12,650 sites for a total of 34,450 cell sites in all 100 markets - a much larger network than VZW, and all digital.
Wireless Week's latest issue discusses our position regarding UMTS and HSDPA. Interesting reading. Basically states that our vendors are pretty sure HSDPA on 850 and 1900 ...
(continues)
Wireless Week's latest issue discusses our position regarding UMTS and HSDPA. Interesting reading. Basically states that our vendors are pretty sure HSDPA on 850 and 1900 ...
(continues)
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broadband speeds on wireless phones everywhere?! 😳
Truly this is the land of the future....
Truly this is the land of the future....
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Actually, once HSDPA rolls out, home broadband will be like dialup. Think about this: Comcast offers a high speed cable connection @ 1.5 Mbps. HSDPA has peak speeds of 14.4 Mbps. That's 9.6 times faster than the cable connection, and wireless. Can you say NOSEBLEED?
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LMAO...Okay so if at the speed it's at now it "streaming" video...what woud it be at 9.6 times faster?
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Are you 100% positive on those figures? I don't see how that would be possible on a cell phone
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phonepimp3376 said:
Actually, once HSDPA rolls out, home broadband will be like dialup. Think about this: Comcast offers a high speed cable connection @ 1.5 Mbps. HSDPA has peak speeds of 14.4 Mbps. That's 9.6 times faster than the cable connection, and wireless. Can you say NOSEBLEED?
actually Comcast is at 3mbps and will be at 6mbps by the end of the year (according to my local area anyway), still not close to 14.4mbps but Im going to go out on a limb here and say that I dont think you'll see 14.4mbps consistant, there are a lot of variables on wireless networks......it would still be nice regardless though (dare I say it, even better than EVDO)
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yeah if anything it might burst up to 14.4mbps but in order to get that you would have to have optimal network coverage i.e. great signal strength and and minimal channel usage on the tower you are registering to
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It takes alot of bandwidth too, but they more of that from Att.
I got a question for you pimp, what band are they deploying utms on? I know the rest of the world isn't putting it on 850 like most of cingulars. Or is cing waiting on Att's pcs bands? Will Wcdma even work in the 800's? thanks 🙂
I got a question for you pimp, what band are they deploying utms on? I know the rest of the world isn't putting it on 850 like most of cingulars. Or is cing waiting on Att's pcs bands? Will Wcdma even work in the 800's? thanks 🙂
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initially 1900, but our vendors are working on an 850 version, which should be ready by sometime in 2005. Article in Wireless Week this issue about it.
ATTWS deployed the first 4 cities on 1900, which is doable now.
ATTWS deployed the first 4 cities on 1900, which is doable now.
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chris_lt1 said:phonepimp3376 said:
Actually, once HSDPA rolls out, home broadband will be like dialup. Think about this: Comcast offers a high speed cable connection @ 1.5 Mbps. HSDPA has peak speeds of 14.4 Mbps. That's 9.6 times faster than the cable connection, and wireless. Can you say NOSEBLEED?
actually Comcast is at 3mbps and will be at 6mbps by the end of the year (according to my local area anyway), still not close to 14.4mbps but Im going to go out on a limb here and say that I dont think you'll see 14.4mbps consistant, there are a lot of variables on wireless networks......it would still be nice regardless though (dare I say it, even better than EVDO)
What is H...
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Just a question here, but why is it when a VZW person talks about things to come like EV-DO you state it is irrelevent and something that has no bearing on what a customer should base a decision on now, but yet nearly every point you bring up about Cingular and how they are better than VZW is a future addition? Seriously, I am not trying to start anything or being facisious, this is an honest question.
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