and Muchdrama -- thank you for your valuable insight.

That wasn't insight. That was me telling you to go with another carrier if Verizon makes you so insane.

and that wasn't a response...well it was, but it was sarcasm about you missing the point to the parent thread, but good job anyways...clap clap..carry on

-adel

man you have to learn how to relax 🤣

Um, we do accomidate.

CDMA Roaming in Mexico, Canada, South Korea, and Israel. .69/min

GSM Rental phone program for one-time international travelers. $1.29/min to $2.49/min and $2.99/day equipment rental.

GSM Purchase option for repeat travelers.
Phones starting at $149.99 $1.29/min to $2.49/min

All-in-one CDMA/GSM Global phone for frequent international travelers. $1.29/min to $2.49/min

Tell me HOW exactly this is not being acomodating. I think we are BENDING OVER BACKWARDS for international travelers by offering not only 1 but 4 different options.

Okay you have to be joking.
Surprisingly, I happen to travel to countries besides Mexico, Canada, South Korea and Israel.

Secondly, are you taking the piss thinking that offering the option to pay $1.29 a minute is something even worth mentioning as a positive? Just what are you thinking? I am at a loss at how to reply to this, how do you get through to someone who thinks paying $1.29 a minute is actually reasonable considering you can pop in a sim card from a local carrier and pay pennies..

i think you do a lot of bending.. but not backwards

You still pay per minute depending on the country you go to while on att or cingular.

My point was that I have the option of having an unlocked phone with ATT or Cingular and using the same phone while abroad, on local carriers. This would be the perfect option if ATT or Cingular had reliable service here.

Look I know I am stuck, just not happy about it.

Well considering that less than 5% of all Americans have the oppurtunity to go outside of the country, it's really not that big of a marketable area anyways...

With all due respect........
Are you listening to yourself? Look, If you were to use the att, tmobile, or cingular gsm network overseas, it is cheaper per minute to use verizon. Also, instead of blaming verizon for everything, why don't you bitch at cingular, att, and tmobile to make their coverage areas larger and more reliable? Instead of complaining about the phones that verizon has, complain about the small, fragile, crap phones that gsm has. Remember, just because verizon is on top, doesn't mean that they are the root of all cellular evil. C'mon now guy, open your mind up a little.

Okay, firstly I'm a girl (that should give you some peace of mind... or more ammo)

I'm not going to use any US carrier overseas..that's just stupid.

Yes, cingular att and tmobile should improve their coverage but at least they recognize the need to implement GSM. You've missed my point.

GSM phones are infinitely better than what Verizon offers. Sorry, you lose on that one.

I am complaining about Verizon because they refuse to offer the best they can because they know they don't have to. I mean at least give a little on the phones and stop charging for bloody games. GSM is a long-shot, I understand.

And what is cellular evil?

The only valid response in this thread was that the market for international travellers is just 5...
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You say that we refuse to put out the best stuff, it's not like we're holding it back laughing at people trying to find out when it's coming out...we put it thru our testing and depending on if we find any problems we have to go thru and update every single one of the phone with any kind of software to fix said problem then start everything over again...it's not like we're just going to release a phone as soon as we get it from the man. and just hope nothing goes wrong with it...come on now...

Verizon's testing is only part of it... there are fewer CDMA phones developed they CAN test. Vendors spend the majority of their money developing GSM phones because there is a much greater demand for them.

Bobcat, where are you located that other carriers are less reliable? Cingular's coverage is nearly as large as VZW's, and is consistently rated the #1 GSM network nationwide. There are areas that they take #1 network overall, for example NYC and CT here on the East Coast. Not trying to start a flame war, just cusrious where you need service.

Keyword being NEARLY there PP

within 2% of coverage is pretty darn close though. We will serve all 100 major markets with the Triton deal. We pick up the last 3 with that.

Even counting losses due to FCC and DoJ, we will have huge amounts of spectrum to work with due to the ATTWS deal, most likely before years end.

And we are building out our all digital network at an alarming rate. We have added over 1000 towers in the last two years.

Would you like a cookie? how bout chocolate chip...you have good points...with a couple deal we've just went thru we're going to be in 98 of the top 100 so you got us there...but VZW puts the most ammnt of money into their network out of all the carriers, over $4,000,000,000/year...count the zeros baby, so needless to say while Cingular is putting up towers at an alarming rate, so is VZW with the industry leading ammnt of money we put into it

Oh gee... you spend more because supporting CDMA is more expensive... GSM can on average put up two towers for every one CDMA tower for the same money.

Where do you find this info out...not bashing you, I would just like a link or something to better educate myself on this...also more expensive probably cause it has more channels available on i.e. more capacity per tower...hehehe bring it PP...last offer on that cookie, I'm about to eat it...

Give me a shout when I'm at work, bro. My link library here sux.

The true cost of CDMA is to a degree in the interface, but also in licensing to Qualcomm. GSM has no such cost, because it is an open standard.

Okay I'll get you later on that....so are you saying that we're paying Qualcomm on the towers but Cingular isn't?

yuppers... Qualcomm owns CDMA, so all CDMA carriers pay them to license the technology. GSM is an open standard, so there is no licensing. Think of it like this: Qualcomm is like using Windows on your computer. You buy it from Microsoft, then you can use it. GSM works like Linux... they give it to you, you can use it the way it is, or you can IMPROVE on it. Either way, you don't pay.

Exactly what I learned
Qualcom is the rope around Verizon's neck. You don't pay the piper, you have no service or phones. From what I read there is a coding process that goes on through which Qualcom has the exclusive license. In fact Qualcom seemed to be the very reason GSM was created and now being implemented world wide. CDMA is more expensive ti build phones and towers for regardless of the amount of users per tower. They have to pay Qualcom for each of those users.

GSM Carriers pay no one, nor do the phone makers. Do you think Kyocera and Audiovox would even be in the cell phone business without Verizon? Those brands would be laughed out of any GSM Carrier's store. Because more want the leading brands which do offer more phones.

...
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Audiovox and Kyocera, make wonderful phone unlike Moto crap...get back to me next year and we'll see who's #1

Kyocera makes good bombs too... 😁

You are killing me Smalls... 1 phone and the world is going to end...good Lord man!!!hehehe

Sorry dude, but Kyoceras that double as bombs, LG phones you can press your pants with and disgruntled computer and phone throwing customers going cellular...you HAVE to see the humor in it all.

there is humor, but that whole thing got blown way out of proportion...also whats with gang up here 3 against 1, where are my VZW peeps to help me with this bombardment!!!

Probably hard at work trying to figure out why number two has all the good stuff! lol j/k.

VZWMan, at least with me you know its all in fun. Picture it this way: remember the scene in Batman Forever, when the Riddler and Two-face are talking, and Two-Face decides not to kill them because :they wouldn't learn nuthin':


I stir you guys up because we ALL learn something!

True, very True,

We do all learn something.

Audiovox makes crappy car stereos you find at flea markets.

Next year this will be a more interesting board to read as Cingular begins its move on Verizon.

Cany t you see Cingular has a huge advantage in ongoing costs when their network is built out?
Cheaper to operate, cheaper phones, while Verizon still has to pay Qualcom first for the same , then take their profit.

I give it three years as I have said before. Cingular will be the largest Carrier. Verizon is already scrambling to find solutions to hold back the inevitable. The IN Network customers will see roaming charges in their own region. Maybe they did not read the fine print and it is their fault, their ignorance, but the result will be the same. A disenchanted customer...
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Yes your exactly right we try to pull a sheet over as many eyes as we can...the info out there any interest person can go and see for themselves

YOu don't pull the sheet. I think Verizon does not make an attempt to 'remove' the sheet that the customer walks in with. Thats my experence. GSM reps sell phones and services and will explain the network and coverage areas knowing ALL the services will be avaiable in those areas with no roaming. As well if asked they with define the difference between CDMA and GSM as it applies to the services and Mobile to Mobile part of their business. They all have told me Verizon has more coverage in remote areas due to their propietary technology. An as such the phone choices are less and the service is more expensive. One rep told me the reason GSM is less is becasue each user is not paying a "subsidy" for someone to get a signal somewhere in the roc...
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🤣 🤣 🤣

In fact Qualcom seemed to be the very reason GSM was created

Well, there you have it. Now he's shown us all he's getting his facts from fairyland. Psst! Here's a secret! CDMA was created AFTER GSM.

Yes it was. Technology progression: AMPS>TDMA>GSM>CDMA in order of age. Throw iDEN in there somewhere...lol

Well yes if that is true,I learned something new...But how dumb was that? Why create a whole technology that is going to cost more, is licensed and will not be implemented worldwide AFTER a plausable much cheaper open source technology already existed? I cannot believe CDMA is that much better a technology than GSM. Somewhere in there is some greed at play.

Makes absolutly no sense at all. I have to think CDMA was a tachnology in use way before GSM at some point and was tweaked to apply to a mobile phone network...

Just a thought, but wouldnt Verizon have to spend more money than Cingular, just because CDMA is more expensive to operate. Also, doesnt Verizon have to dish out a large sum of money each year to mantain there roaming agreements. I mean, Verizon is spending the most money, but how much of that money is truly productive. Verizon is going to have to do better on there plans if they want to stay competitive. The average consumer doesnt care about GSM or CDMA, they care about coverage and Minutes. and when Cingular' buyout goes threw, then they will be leading in both catagories. not trying to get you Verizon guys stirred up, just some food for thought.

If your testing process is so thorough, then please explain the Motorola T720 and how that piece of crap phone ever got on the market. If your testing was so intensive, then why was that phone put out when it wasn't ready.

Buy the way, I got this info from Verizon when I went in to replace that phone for the fourth time in 8 months.

Motorola phonew over the past couple years have always turned out as crap...with the exception of the v60 series and maybe the c343...haven't heard hardly any complaints on those...some phones are just bound for failure

Too true. That T720 was the worst phone that I have ever had. What sucked was that I was assured by the guy that sold it to me that is was the best thing out there.

I later found out that there was faulty software on the phone, but not until I took it in for the 4th time. A nice lady there asked me if I had ever had the software update. She was the first person to tell me that there was an update for the phone.

The other people never told me about it, but she said that it was common knowledge that it was needed, and available for some time.

That whole situation is what made me leave VZ. Now I sell them, along with a few other companies. It's hard, but I do it.

VZ is a great cell phone company. It just seems to me t...
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I would not blame Motorola. They are doing fine in the GSM arena. Sometimes a little buggy now and then but updates are always available.

This is a Verizon tecnological issue with regard to Motorola.

exactly the CDMA phones that Motorola put out are crap...complete and utter crap

have to agree there....the only two I've had were/are utter POS's. Half the time I hear complaints from people that I didn't answer my phone....here's the catch...IT NEVER RANG!!!

Why doenn't Verizon just quit using Motorola?

If you haven't notice we really haven't come out with many Motot phone here lately, there is the v60 series...which actually isn't that bad...but for instance the c333 and c343 weren't out for very long

I had a V60 series for years with ATT on TDMA and it worked well. No bells and whistles. But solid.

I am beginning to think TDMA was really more like CDMA in rural coverage and phones. I could get an analog signal but when I was in roam on the freeway the battery would drain faster with no calls being made. Im guessing the phone is sending something out.

Anyway all that seems to be gone now with the Sony T637, especially the battery life issue.

thatguy_overthere said:
If your testing process is so thorough, then please explain the Motorola T720 and how that piece of crap phone ever got on the market. If your testing was so intensive, then why was that phone put out when it wasn't ready.

Buy the way, I got this info from Verizon when I went in to replace that phone for the fourth time in 8 months.

dood. i'll be the first to tell you never to buy a motorola again. ever. i'm starting to think the same about audiovox. 🙄


-Verizon Wireless Sales

.

>> i'm starting to think the same about audiovox.

bobcat zoidberg said:
Okay, firstly I'm a girl (that should give you some peace of mind... or more ammo)

ok

I'm not going to use any US carrier overseas..that's just stupid.

So... you're going to sign a 1 or 2 year commitment with an overseas company? If you travel overseas that much, why do you need a U.S. phone?

Yes, cingular att and tmobile should improve their coverage but at least they recognize the need to implement GSM. You've missed my point.

GSM is the most popular, not the most advanced. A CDMA to GSM conversion would be an expensive and unnessecary downgrade. We offer several options for internationaly travel that are comparable or better ...
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Actually, the most advanced would be UMTS/HSDPA... a GSM family member with estimated data speeds of up to 14.4 Mbps (yes thats MEGAbits) and even more capacity at the tower than CDMA

phonepimp3376 said:
Actually, the most advanced would be UMTS/HSDPA... a GSM family member with estimated data speeds of up to 14.4 Mbps (yes thats MEGAbits) and even more capacity at the tower than CDMA

You have this:
UMTS

Universal Mobile Telecommunications System.

A third generation (3G) mobile communications technology that promises data transmission speeds of up to 2 megabits per second (Mbps), although actual speeds may be significantly lower at first, due to network capacity restrictions.

UMTS used WCDMA technology, and the two terms are often used interchangeably with each other.

HSDPA

HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access) is an upgrade for WCDMA networks. It d...
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From right here on PhoneScoop:

http://www.attwireless.com/press/releases/2004_relea ... »

AT&T Wireless said its wireless broadband service provides customers with average wireless data speeds between 220 and 320 kilobits-per-second (kbps), with bursts up to 384kbps. In the future, the company noted that UMTS can be easily and cost-effectively upgraded to HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access), which is estimated to attain peak data rates up to 14.4 megabits-per-second (mbps).

Not to mention, CDMA's upgrades cannot run in the same spectrum as voice. This will mean VZW will still have to have two distinct networks, that handsets will be more expensive due to having to include technology for B...
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Thanks for that response.
What I meant about using an overseas company was just getting a sim and pay as you go.. not necessarily signing a contract.
I dont play enough games to buy an n-gage.. I dont even know what that is. But sometimes you just want to play a little mini-golf, you know?
By saying GSM is a long-shot, I meant I know that Verizon isn't going to switch over to GSM or improve its GSM compatibility.. or change anything regarding its GSM.
And regarding paying the $1.29 rate, I agree it's reasonable for business travelers but those aren't the only kinds of travelers. And even then, wouldn't it make business sense to take the option of significantly cheaper calls? Like I said earlier, if the market is indeed that small.. th...
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I would just like to know, from your experience, what gsm phone is just spectacular. I can only think of maybe 3 or 4 that I've actually thought were nice phones, along with durability. All the other gsm phones I have had were drop em once and their done phones, or they have had inner malfunctions, maybe bad luck, but my experience with cdma has been very good. Plus, the core of all cellular experience is the quality of reception, not the bells and whistles of a hand unit. (my personal opinion) And whoever said the 5% international traveler was exactly right, and remember waht kind of wolrd we live in. I don't mean to bring in other things, but it is hard these days for some companies to decide to use their networks and expand overseas. But ...
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I love this site, don't you PEOPLE?! I love arguing pointlessly, it's great. By the way bobcat, thank you for posting! It's always fun to have a stand up person like yourself.

I have had my x427 Samsung since the day they hit the Boston market... never a problem... same with my v400... I am very tough on phones.
My v400 was actually dropped out the car window . Back popped off, battery fell out... big old scratches and chips... but everything still works.

GSM has been found to have the truest sound in wireless. I am sitting in my home with 5 bars. When my friends who have other carriers, including Verizon, are lucky to have an area in their house where they can make calls. My next door lives on his Verizon phone, and on his front porch, because he has no coverage in building.

Cingular and other GSM carriers don't HAVE to expand overseas. Over 200 countries use GSM, its a simple roaming agreement.

I am sorry, I meant for verizon to have their own network in Europe. That's what I was getting at, but CDMA doesn't work well at all in there. Those were two of the phones on my list that I have actually seen that have been reliable. From peronsal experience with Cingular and Tmobile, in my area, Verizon's reception and clarity are unmatched. I sit in my house an chat all day long if needed (to other verizon customers that is! LOL) But again, different areas, different reception, it happens.

Not likely VZW will pull of Europe. As VZW reps are so quick to remind us GSM'ers, Europe has enforced GSM - only rules.

bobcat zoidberg said:

You can still get GSM phones that are not released in the States. Even if they are on 900 (instead of 800 or 850) band, you will have dual band reception. I am not a tech guru, but from the research I've had the patience to do on Verizon phones, the majority of non-camera phones are only dual band anyway. I don't need a camera on my phone.. so basically I am left with dual band anyway. At least that is my interpretation. If I am wrong, please (someone other than Anxio) correct me.

you are excused.

Audiovox 8600 tri mode and not a camera phone...there are a couple of other ones too just can't think of them off the top of my head

I think you are a little mixed up with your frequencies. With GSM, TRI-BAND means that they work on 900, 1800, and 1900. Quad-band adds 850 to that. There are some ATT/Cingular tri-band phones that swap 850 for 900. No matter what, you can only use 850 or 1900 in the U.S. There is no 900 or 1800 Mhz coverage. TRI-MODE with CDMA means something completely different. That means that the phone operates on two digital CDMA frequencies (850/1900) as well as 850 MHz analog. It's getting to the point where analog is really only useful for people who travel a lot in very rural areas. As far as Verizon phones go, most of the high end phones are actually dual band, digital only. Low to mid tier tri-mode phones include the LG VX3200, Samsung ...
(continues)

JDigital said:
I think you are a little mixed up with your frequencies. With GSM, TRI-BAND means that they work on 900, 1800, and 1900. Quad-band adds 850 to that. There are some ATT/Cingular tri-band phones that swap 850 for 900. No matter what, you can only use 850 or 1900 in the U.S. There is no 900 or 1800 Mhz coverage. TRI-MODE with CDMA means something completely different. That means that the phone operates on two digital CDMA frequencies (850/1900) as well as 850 MHz analog. It's getting to the point where analog is really only useful for people who travel a lot in very rural areas. As far as Verizon phones go, most of the high end phones are actually dual band, digital only. Low to mid tier tri-mode pho

...
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