T-Mobile USA Possible Sale Damaging Verizon
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/04/deutsche_tel ... »
http://www.mobiletracker.net/archives/2005/07/03/t-m ... »
If Vodafone were to buy T-Mobile USA, this would surely spell doom for their stake in Verizon Wireless. Doing so would give Verizon Corp. full ownership of the wireless division, but they would be losing a very deep-pocketed financial backer in Vodafone. This could potentially put a huge burden on both Verizon and VZW to continue to invest as much money in their wireless network and services as they once did.
Any thoughts on this completely hypothetical situation as of now?
T-Mobile's doing pretty decent too as the low-cost national carrier, but going forward they're going to be competing against three nationals that are far bigger than they are (Sprint/Nextel, VZW, Cingy), and they're going to have to spend many billions of dollars to get their 3G network going, something they're really behind in. Apparently this is part of why Deutsche Telekom may be thinking of selling.
I think the above reasons why Deustche Telekom would be keen to get out of T-Mo...
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BetterThanJake said:...
I dunno... kinda doubt Vodafone would want to switch horses from Verizon to T-Mobile. Verizon is very profitable and in a strong position in the US wireless market, especially with the EV-DO rollout being quite a bit ahead of its competitors' 3G rollouts.
T-Mobile's doing pretty decent too as the low-cost national carrier, but going forward they're going to be competing against three nationals that are far bigger than they are (Sprint/Nextel, VZW, Cingy), and they're going to have to spend many billions of dollars to get their 3G network going, something they're really behind in. Apparently this is part of why Deutsche Telekom may be thinking of selling.
I think the above reasons why Deustche
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T-Mobile does have alot of potential. Good sub base. Highly rated CS.
The only thing that really hurts them is the lack of a 3G project.
Correction said:
But its they only one Vodaphone have a chance of getting. I doubt they will be able to buy 100% control of Verizon, Cingular or Sprint/Nextel
T-Mobile does have alot of potential. Good sub base. Highly rated CS.
The only thing that really hurts them is the lack of a 3G project.
That and the fact that they aren't picking up subscribers as fast as they were. Things are starting to slow down, and the fact that they aren't up to par with the big three isn't helping matters. I wonder just how much Vodafone backs Verizon?
muchdrama said:Correction said:
But its they only one Vodaphone have a chance of getting. I doubt they will be able to buy 100% control of Verizon, Cingular or Sprint/Nextel
T-Mobile does have alot of potential. Good sub base. Highly rated CS.
The only thing that really hurts them is the lack of a 3G project.
That and the fact that they aren't picking up subscribers as fast as they were. Things are starting to slow down, and the fact that they aren't up to par with the big three isn't helping matters. I wonder just how much Vodafone backs Verizon?
I could be completely wrong with this figure, but I think I read somewhere that Vodafone is a 40% backer of Veriz...
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SForsyth01 said:...muchdrama said:Correction said:
But its they only one Vodaphone have a chance of getting. I doubt they will be able to buy 100% control of Verizon, Cingular or Sprint/Nextel
T-Mobile does have alot of potential. Good sub base. Highly rated CS.
The only thing that really hurts them is the lack of a 3G project.
That and the fact that they aren't picking up subscribers as fast as they were. Things are starting to slow down, and the fact that they aren't up to par with the big three isn't helping matters. I wonder just how much Vodafone backs Verizon?
I could be completely wrong with this figure, but I think I read somewhere t
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muchdrama said:...SForsyth01 said:muchdrama said:Correction said:
But its they only one Vodaphone have a chance of getting. I doubt they will be able to buy 100% control of Verizon, Cingular or Sprint/Nextel
T-Mobile does have alot of potential. Good sub base. Highly rated CS.
The only thing that really hurts them is the lack of a 3G project.
That and the fact that they aren't picking up subscribers as fast as they were. Things are starting to slow down, and the fact that they aren't up to par with the big three isn't helping matters. I wonder just how much Vodafone backs Verizon?
I could be completely wrong with this fi
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Aarynk said:...BetterThanJake said:
I dunno... kinda doubt Vodafone would want to switch horses from Verizon to T-Mobile. Verizon is very profitable and in a strong position in the US wireless market, especially with the EV-DO rollout being quite a bit ahead of its competitors' 3G rollouts.
T-Mobile's doing pretty decent too as the low-cost national carrier, but going forward they're going to be competing against three nationals that are far bigger than they are (Sprint/Nextel, VZW, Cingy), and they're going to have to spend many billions of dollars to get their 3G network going, something they're really behind in. Apparently this is part of why Deutsche Telekom may be thinking of selling.
I thi
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Anxiovert said:...Aarynk said:BetterThanJake said:
I dunno... kinda doubt Vodafone would want to switch horses from Verizon to T-Mobile. Verizon is very profitable and in a strong position in the US wireless market, especially with the EV-DO rollout being quite a bit ahead of its competitors' 3G rollouts.
T-Mobile's doing pretty decent too as the low-cost national carrier, but going forward they're going to be competing against three nationals that are far bigger than they are (Sprint/Nextel, VZW, Cingy), and they're going to have to spend many billions of dollars to get their 3G network going, something they're really behind in. Apparently this is part of why Deutsche Telekom m
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RUFF1415 said:
T-Mobile is the fastest growing branch of DT and its growth rate comparatively is nearly as high as Verizon and Cingular. T-Mobile's potential has been growing incredibly fast for the past couple of years, until they've recently hit a brick wall with 3G. The money won't be a problem for Vodaphone to pony up for a new 3G network, even if they do spend $40 billion for T-Mobile initially.
Money is not the only thing, they just DON'T have the spectrum.
RUFF1415 said:
T-Mobile is the fastest growing branch of DT and its growth rate comparatively is nearly as high as Verizon and Cingular. T-Mobile's potential has been growing incredibly fast for the past couple of years, until they've recently hit a brick wall with 3G. The money won't be a problem for Vodaphone to pony up for a new 3G network, even if they do spend $40 billion for T-Mobile initially.
I don't know about that. Tmobile USA needs an awful lot of spectrum to make a 3g network even possible. Vodafone isn't made of unlimited funds. Hell, even Deutsche isn't keen on ponying up that kind of cash right now.
smd said:
that would make NO sense, verizon already has greater coverage then t-mobile, and t-mobile is GSM, they are two totally different technologies
I tend to agree with nwdavis's original post. ATTWS was a different technology than Verizon, but still VZW was a big player in that buyout. VZW would buy T-Mobile simply for their subscriber base. It would make sense from that aspect, as they definately don't need the coverage from T-Mobile.
I don't think it would be business savvy for Verizon to buy T-Mobile just for the customers. If their network isn't in need of the coverage, and T-Mobile's spectrum offerings wouldn't boost Verizon's productivity of services, then they woud essentially be wasting $35 billion. I'm quite sure that even if Verizon did buy T-Mobile, they would have to sell off much of the overlapping spectrum, which would be like losing the directions to a gold mine that you payed too much for. Customers aren't worth $35 billion.
The majority of Verizon's coverage comes from roaming agreements. The great coverage that Cingular offers, roaming agreements. Have you ever actually seen these coverage maps WITHOUT the agreements? T-Mobile owns some damn good spectrum without the agreements.
T-Mobile greatly lacks in spectrum, and that is exactly why they hit a brick wall when faced with releasing a 3G network.
vodaphone wont buy tmobile usa... but vzw could..
thats quite interesting...
tmobile has 1.9ghz while verizon is buying a lot of it... hmm..
can you expand on your reasoning for your opinion?
nextel18 said:
interesting opinion....
vodaphone wont buy tmobile usa... but vzw could..
thats quite interesting...
tmobile has 1.9ghz while verizon is buying a lot of it... hmm..
can you expand on your reasoning for your opinion?
I don't advise it.
regardless, i asked him, not you. butt out of people's conversations that wasnt addressed to you. (especially if your going to have a response as silly and stupid like the one you just said)
nextel18 said:
who cares what you say.. i ask him what his reasoning was.. i didnt ask you.. you probably dont even have one....
regardless, i asked him, not you. butt out of people's conversations that wasnt addressed to you. (especially if your going to have a response as silly and stupid like the one you just said)
What's silly about "I don't advise it."?
plus verizon wireless makes a ton of money.
nextel18 said:
vodaphone already said many times they arent interested in tmobile usa.... so there is no hypothetical situation...
plus verizon wireless makes a ton of money.
Oh, man...give it up already. Vodafone bid so hard on ATTWS (all the while saying "we're not interested in ATTWS), Cingular almost got caught with their pants down.
nextel18 said:
if they wanted att wireless, they would have.
Actually, Cingular just outbid them.
I think Tmobile's final price will be around 25 billion. They don't have as much spare spectrum as AT&T or as big a network so they are not worth as much. This gives them plenty of spare cash to make the upgrade to UMTS.
yea, 25 billion might be appropriate for tmobible, but perhaps 30 billion would be a bit better for DT. i guess DT would get anything so that they can take a nice loss on their voicestream(tmobile) orrignal buy out...
spare cash? lol... ok even if it costs 25 billion dollars. i bet that tmobile would have to spend a lot of money to upgrade their problems that they lack of.. i wouldnt do it.. 18 million vs 45+ million subscribers= bad newws.
could care less about subscribers? wow.. thats interesting.. by the way if they wanted tmobile, they could have bought them earlier this year, but they didnt...
they wont get it. done.. the cons out weigh the pros.
Why are you right and everyone else wrong? Not one news article or post has agreed with anything you are claiming. Heck, even one of the contributors of this site has disagreed with your claims. You have no support. You have no credibility and no evidence that anyone backs your claim.
By the way, AT&T only had 6 billion in debt when Cingular aquired them. They also chewed right through that debt when they divested and sold assets to Tmobile and Alltel. ...'but that's ok'.
nextel18 said:
lol... very good, but vodaphone has the money to bid and bid and bid if they felt like it. but i am sure they said well 48 billion dollars with the assumption of debt is far too much for a company that isnt worth that much.
No. Vodafone doesn't have the money to bid and bid and bid. They had to stay within certain parameters. They wanted ATTWS bad, but not 48 billion dollars bad. Are you having trouble understanding the concept?
lets discuss the pros and cons between tmobile and verizon wireless..
oh yea, before we get into that, let me remind you that tmobile is in the same boat as att wireless, both terrible...
anyway, let us start
pros=
wireless high speed data= verizon
subscribers= verizon
covered pops= verizon
spectrum= verizon
more profitable= verizon
cons=
lack of high speed data= tmobile
subscribers= tmobile
covered pops= tmobile
lack of spectrum= tmobile
less profitable= tmobile..
looks like verizon is the clear handsdown winner to keep...
vodaphone will probably go after sprintel.
nextel18 said:
yes, I say.... its called common sense....
/
This from a guy that said, and I quote, "Cingular won't be profitable for another 75 years due to the ATTWS buyout".
Vodaphone will go after Sprint-Nextel you say? Well it's good to see you're an optimist, but unfortunately not a realist. 🙄
RUFF1415 said:
You seem to be overlooking the idea of 100% ownership vs. a 45% stake. Also, you seem to be forgetting the issue of GSM vs. CDMA, especially considering Vodaphone's entire international network is GSM/UMTS. Verizon's CDMA network is simply not benefitting them.
Vodaphone will go after Sprint-Nextel you say? Well it's good to see you're an optimist, but unfortunately not a realist. 🙄
I wouldn't say that Verizon's CDMA network isn't benefitting Vodafone, but your argument about Voda's stake in Verizon is solid. Why not control a carrier totally?
yea, voda will go for sprintel in my opinion.
why not? its making money.. excellent growth potentials.
Vodaphone has the largest customer base of any wireless company in the world, not including Verizon's 45 million. Vodaphone, at the moment, could not care less about how many subscribers a US division would have. Vodaphone simply wants a GSM/UMTS network in the states to add to their HUGE international GSM/UMTS network for their current customers worldwide. Anyway, any US division that they had 100% ownership of would look better in figures considering Verizon's 45 million mean jack in their owned customers. Add 18 million to their current figures and I'll think they'll be pleased. Besides, I've already told you countless times, it's the GSM network that has...
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If it ever happens (and that's a big 'IF'), I'm sure we can worry about it then. But for now, I'm sure not holding my breath. 🙂
BetterThanJake said:
I dunno, Ruff... Vodafone making a move is not impossible. But I've heard this story referred to as the 'Haley's Comet' of wireless rumors... something that shows up over and over again to big portents, and then is gone into the night with nothing changed. Lather, rinse, repeat.
If it ever happens (and that's a big 'IF'), I'm sure we can worry about it then. But for now, I'm sure not holding my breath. 🙂
I know that Vodafone making a move is not impossible. That is who I believe will be making the move, as much as Nextel18 thinks otherwise. 🙄
I don't believe this is a false alarm. T-Mobile has finally hit a brick wall with 3G grafiti written all over it.
those 18 million subscribers will probably not stay with them very long...
its a dumb decision if they would buy them.. sorry.
You can keep your opinion...until then. 😉
🙂
nextel18 said:
really? then they could have already have bought tmobile or att wireless if they wanted too. so far they havent.
Voda did try to buy AT&T but were screwed by some behind the scenes mauuevering after they thought they had bought them. And no they did not bid on AT&T just to drive the price up for Cingular.
They haven't bought T-Mo because it has not been for sale until now (possibly).
Your list of pros and cons (elsewhere in this thread) is terribly simplistic and reflects very few of the issues (both pro and con) which Voda would use to make the decision to purchase T-Mo USA.
As far as your contention that Voda really wants Sprint-Nextel, you need to look into some of the things S...
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My opinions with regarding the pros and cons are relevant and very important in deciding whether to purchase a company.
I actually look into many things regarding my theory that vodaphone wants sprint/Nextel.
1. Nextel/sprint will be the most profitable wireless company in the industry according to Forbes and other brokerage firms who loves them.
2. They have a great growth story and continue to make a lot of money
3. One ...
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nextel18 said:
They could also have outbid cingular if they wanted too, since they do have that capital power as well as another 20+ billion dollars from their stake in verizon wireless.
VodaFone did outbid Cingular. However, Cingular made an unknown (to VodaFone) deal with AT&T the offered them more money than VodaFone's winning bid. Cingular was forced to sign the contract within 60 seconds of seeing it, otherwise VodaFone's winning bid would have been final.
nextel18 said: 5. Yes, any company would love to buy out sprint/Nextel as a wireless company.
Unless of course, VodaFone's eyes have always been on a GSM newtork, and not a CDMA one. 🙄
nextel18 said:
yea,, well what about tmobile's 18 million subs vs the other 45+ million customers? what about that?
yea, voda will go for sprintel in my opinion.
why not? its making money.. excellent growth potentials.
Vodafone buying Sprint or Nextel. Right. Sure.
anyway.. why dont you contribute instead of saying stupid comments?
nextel18 said:
what stupidity? saying pros and cons and saying common sense? why whats wrong with that? you have no opinion on it, or you have no idea about this industry, kinda like muchdrama....
anyway.. why dont you contribute instead of saying stupid comments?
Buddy, the amount of common sense you possess I could fit into a thimble.
That, IMHO, would be a horribly unwise decision on Verizon Corp's part.