Offer it to the customer, I can understand that part of it, but posting it on a public forum.....is another thing.

I am not doing anything illegal; I am not giving away any trade secrets. This is policy that I am stating. I should've really posted this as an answer to akita mom's post. I am still kind of new to PS so dont know yet how everything works. I dont post much. I probably shouldnt as well named my past Loophole. I just dont like it when customers go to stores for options or call customer service and arent given all their options. The National Access block has been around since before the data requirement and we tell customers about the block to avoid the MB chrgs.

Just Married do you work for VZW and are you some type of director, VP, or Manager for the company.

I know how Verizon works and they don't like people mentioning this type of thing. They don't want to to say anything to make the company lose money unless the customer brings it up first. If the customer threatens to leave or this or that then they will let you mention something like this. Otherwise they don't want to you mention things to save people money. Not saying I totally agree with it but that's how they play.

Then thank you very much Joppy! And trust me, I just came from a Verizon store hours ago, and 9/10 of the people in there have never been to Phonescoop (or Engadget, or any other site) in their lives judging by the questions most of them were asking. Verizon's trade secrets are safe. I personally have found the techs/reps on this site to know a heck of a lot more than any person I've ever dealt with in a store.

Most of us work in stores.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I was dealing with a customer in the store, I play dumb with anything that is against verizon policy.

A good example is rooting. I have my phone rooted, overclocked, and heavily customized, but if a customer were to ask me about it in the store, I would say something along the lines of "I think I read about that somewhere."

I'm not trying to intentionally mis-inform a customer. It's just that if I admit to a rumor (or something against verizon policy) I'm liable if something happens to that customers device. Say that I tell them about one click rooting, and they go do it and bork their phone because they didn't read up on it. Then they turn around and demand verizo...
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Menno hit that one right on the spot. I don't tell customers half of what their phones are capable of just so i don't ever have the chance to be liable. Custies ask me all the time how to root, how to tether without paying verizon, etc and i almost never let on that i know exactly what they're talking about. There is no way that ish is comin back on me.

Smart very smart. CYA always.

Yeah, I get that. I really just meant to say (and I guess it didn't come across that well) that not many average "customers" in a totally different field of work read these forums like the idiot that I am, and I think for the ones that will try to ask for the data to be removed, if they've continued reading this, they'll understand that it's not supposed to be done. I don't get the continued debate, anyway; if you want a data phone you need some sort of data plan. But still, I have faint memories of arguing (nicely) with a rep who insisted I needed a data plan when I bought my Centro, and I finally made her go get a manager to convince her that I didn't need it. But at that time I wanted a data block (no accidental charges) and it was prior ...
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Don't know if Epic is still working on it or not. I don't think mandetory data is going away for smartphones though.

The problem isn't people reading this site. I know that most consumers who read this site will at least click through a few responses.

The problem is because what's posted on this site doesn't always stay there. I've seen articles that started here make there way over to howard forums, with only the initial post intact, so none of the context. And then from howard forums, they are reposted on the Consumerist and other sites that a lot of consumers DO read (or at least have friends who do).

And the rumor of "mandatory data isn't really mandatory if you get the right rep" has the tendency to spread really quickly fr...
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I've always thought that there was little incentive to manufacturers and carriers to have an awesome calendar on a non-smartphone, and they continue to prove that assumption. As time goes on, more and more smartphones are sold, leaving less need for a decent calendar on a non-data phone.

Seeing has how smartphones have come to dominate sales, compared to a year and two years ago, I don't see this changing. Instead of making better standard phones, it's more cost-effective and lucrative for manufacturers to focus on smartphones.

Yes, of course. My comment was tongue-in-cheek and harkens back to conversations you and I had awhile back. I've long since converted to the smartphone/data world and strangely enough probably use the calendar less now than I ever did before...too many other apps and things to play with...

Yeah, I've had that conversation many times with lots of people. In time, they all give up. I pretty much told them it would happen. I've been preaching the smartphone gospel since it was the PocketPC gospel.

If nothing else, I'm glad it'w working for you. This year I almost tripled my appointment keeping, which was bad enough to begin with. I wouldn't be able to do it with anything less than a smartphone. And it's nice having Google because I share Google calendars with my wife - when she sets something up on her Blackberry, I've got it on my calendar within a minute.

Being on the same page with the spouse, as far as appointments are concerned = priceless.

First, if I could offer that, I wouldn't have a job very soon.

Second, I don't even have that ability. If I block National Access, the $9.99 plan still will not come off. If you have a way around it, kudos to you, see how long you offer that and keep working for the company. All it takes is one picky supervisor listening on your call.

Don't assume your trick works for everyone in the company. The reps in the call centers at any level usually have more ability than anyone in the stores on the front line. I can't even clear errors in MTAS - I have to call YOU for that.

In the billing system we use in TS when we rmv the data plan and add the 1X block simultaneously it does come off. You cant do it as two separate transactions. Has to be done as 1.

Yeah, we use NetAce in the stores. We don't have the same access you have. I can GUARANTEE you that a store employee - even a manager - cannot take the $9.99 plan off. All we can do is submit a special request to some high-end customer care department and hope they're willing to do anything.

I know stores and cust serv and TS have different systems and can do diffreent things. You should see some of the things I have seen that NET Ace allows. Adding gfathered plans; I have even seen Blackberry phones with out any kind of data plan. Thats a lovely first bill. I used to be on the team that used to credit customer's bills thousands of dollars due to data charges. One of the reasons VZW implemented the required data plans on the smart phones. I have seen bills > $10,000

We have different security classes than you do. It's not something we can overcome. It's not something hidden, or unlearned. Trust me, retail is the king of the workaround. I say this with 7+ years behind me. I used to have Vision, ACSS, and MTAS access because I started at a time where I could request it. Everyone in the store is on the same playing level now, except managers, who can cancel lines and apply credits. That's it.

Epik, there is a way in NetAce to remove it,but I wont post it here. Doing that is a revenue killer. When the company loses revenue they may start to make more changes.......like letting some employees go. Or changing our discounts or benefits.

Customers need to be educated on all their options. For example I will use the post by Akita mom; why wasn't she told about the block that can be placed so she doesn't have to pay the $9.99 data requirement. Now we have just lost 3 lines because the customer has chosen to go elsewhere. How is that a good business model.

We are encountering this a lot in CS and TS. This isn't necessarily a good thing. The block isn't a revenue killer its a client retainer if anything its a revenue maker. Less unhappy customers that will churn, less calls into CS and TS over their bills. Less courtesy credits. In the long run it will save the company money. We never had as many calls regarding the same issue when data on regular phones was billed ...
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Look, I don't disagree with you on your point that customers should be made aware of their options. The problem is, workarounds are always against policy, and a workaround in this particular instance would be closely monitored because it currently violates terms and conditions and who knows what else.

The bottom line is, there IS no option for a customer to get around the $9.99 data requirement. Just because someone has a way around the requirement doesn't make that an option. An option is something allowed and sanctioned by the company. Anything else is a quirk in the system, and one I would steer clear of in most cases - this coming from the king of workarounds.

I've seen my name on too many negative reports to play with this par...
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The problem here is that the rep who sold her the phones, didn't qualify her for the RIGHT equipment. It should have discovered that she did not need a 3g phone and not sold one to her.

Even if the rep did qualify her and advise her of her data options, the customer still willfully chose the phone that had the data requirement. That is why there is a 30 day WFG. If she didnt want the data, exchange the phone for one that does not require the data plan.

As a sup, I would gladly credit the restock because that is reasonable to retain a customer, but to do a work around to "Beat" the system is not!

Unfortunately, we can qualify until we're blue in the face, and we can even over-stress the WFG until the customer joins us, and it won't make much difference. There's always going to be someone who had the ideal sales presentation that did whatever they wanted, then waited way too long to say anything about it.

I wish the restock fee were more creditable in the stores - crediting a restock requires district management approval in many areas, and of the requests made, only a couple are approved each month. I'd rather waive a $35 fee that really does little to recoup the cost of returning a phone than lose a customer, but I can't.

NM conexion I beg to differ. ACSS has many built in safety features. My experience using it has been that it doesnt allow you to do things that arent ok. Like for example changing grandfathered plans or adding feats that no longer available. In addition as I have stated numerous times; I have made this offer on live monitored calls and was never corrected or coached. I have lots of integrity so I respectfully disagree with you. If Acss allowed it I assumed it was acceptable practice because of the aforementioned safety features.

Allowing you to do it =/= allowing you to blast it around the internet.

If he is posting it here then I am willing to bet it has been posted at Howards Forum long ago. That's where the real tech geeks hang out.

I've been keeping tabs on HOFO, this hasn't popped up there, yet

Ok. Thanks. Are there going to be any good feature phones coming out anytime soon?

Yes, give it a month or so. There will be no more phones released that have the $9.99 requirement. Going forward all the current 3G Multimedia devices are slated to be replaced in Q4 with devices that don't have the mandatory requirement.

And what does that mean exactly? Pay as you go data charges? New tiered pricing plans only? I'm interested because I just gave my beloved Eris to my son and saw absolutely NOTHING in the store exciting enough to reup. So I'm using an old flip with no bells and whistles waiting for something new to come along. I'll say one thing, it is very nice to have a battery last for days...

For now there are no changes to PDA's. Those will still require the $29.99 and will be unlimited. Basically the phones like the EnV3, Chocolate Touch, Samsung Reality, that whole category is going to change. The phones that are out today and have the requirement will keep it. Over the next quarter all those phones will be replaced by new models that won't require the $9.99 a month. You can just go pay as you go for the $1.99/mb just like the feature phones. You will still have the option to add the $9.99 or $29.99 unlimited to them if you wish.

Thanks. After having blackberries and android, I'm not sure I could adjust to something less (both of which are worth the $30, I'm not disputing that at all), even if it would cost less. I have to mull it over for awhile and see what the 4th quarter brings. Thanks for the info.

@vzwinagent- so the samsung reality will still have the data plan in Q4? Will the phones be good, or bad. Will they be touch screen or have qwerty? How many phones are coming out? Please answer.

the reality will require a data plan for as long as it is sold by verizon.

There is VERY little about the phones coming out in Q4, just a couple of names like "LG Octane" which is rumored to be a touchscreen phone.

Know this, if they are still higher quality phones and don't require data, they will command a MUCH higher price tag than the $50 the reality goes for. Expect to pay over 100, and most likely over 150 if you want a touch screen phone with no data.

@Menno- When will these phones come out? Like by the end of September, October, next year? I want to know before I go with AT&T.

No idea. I'm assuming before Christmas (it wouldn't surprise me if they tied in the drop of 3gmm data and the release of LTE into one super cast.)

Like I said, there is very little known about this, at all.

Thank you.

🙂

Azeron said:
Thou must always cover thy arse!

Downright awesome.

Company toadies? Get real, he should not have posted that here and he now understands why. If someone is going to cancel over the 9.99 fee, then cancel and go somewheree else. They can be replaced, and next time get a phone that doesn't require any other require charges.........

Arrogantly refuse to do something I never had access nor permission to do in the first place? Really.

If you are not in tech then obviously the comment doesn't apply to you. Totally unnecessary reply.

I wasn't aware that this discussion was populated with DTS employees, my bad.

It's not. And it's not arrogant of them to refuse to do anything, it's their JOB and they are physically incapable of changing the data plan requirement. That's what we've been saying since post one. This is NOT something that most customer service reps and sales people can do, EVEN if they wanted to. Period. It's not arrogance, it's reality. This is something reps CANNOT do.

Integrity is buying the phone with the right plan, or cancelling and finding another carrier that allows you what you want. It is NOT buying the phone anyway and then bitching enough until you get transferred to retention in the hopes of getting the data plan taken off. That's Petty and Pointless.

I agree with what almost everyone has to say here (strange as that may seem), but what I find truly amazing is how Verizon pits one set of employees (retention) against the others (apparently) and creates this nonsense to begin with. Some people can't change the system and others apparently can. That's pretty f'd up if you ask me. What if Customer #1 who got retention to do it went and told all their friends? Not the same as a post on phonescoop admittedly, but it would create the same type of consternation if the "friends" weren't then able to do it too.

It's the same issue with Telesales/Online vs Corporate and indirects (or coporate v indirects)

Seriously.. Why is it that online rebates are instant, but everywhere else they have to be mailed in? Or how if you're trying to fix something for a customer and the rep on the phone asks to confirm some information you DONT want to hand the phone over because that rep will try to steal your sale?

Or how, if someone gets something online, they are told by customer service to just go to "any" verizon store and that store will be glad to waste 2 hours with that customer showing a 85 year old the changes between his Coupe and his new Palm Pre, or how we'll transfer all his information for free.. etc.

I understand that competition makes eve...
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Consistency has never been the cornerstone of any wireless company.

Online rebates are "instant" because Verizon wants customers to buy phones online and eventually cut staff in telesales and direct.

Sorry. We will disagree on this until hell freezes over, Menno. Probably best to move on. Let me just add this: Envy Touch launched with no data requirement. Verizon added it. I had a customer have the damned phone Fru Exchanged and it would not activate without my adding the data plan. Don't get me wrong...someone wanting a smartphone with no data plan...I have a problem with that. Some of these dumb phones requiring a data plan like the 8360? Seriously?

If data is added because of fru warranty, it can be removed. I've had it done before.

And and DON'T agree with the data requirement. You know this.

But there is a big difference between disagreeing with it and going around lying to customers telling them that it is optional if they get the right people.

I have to give in on that measure then. No, it isn't optional...that's for sure. Verizon wants every dime it can squeeze out of its customers and of course since I am not the man and have nothing vested in their profitability (anymore) I want everything my way. LOL I feel like Jay. Pretty cool actually. So THAT'S what it is like to want fast data speeds and not want to pay extra for it. Hmmmmm...

You really ARE a Butthead, you know that? Back off!

If he works in a call center/in a store he has every right to get pissed off at Joppy because HE's the one who's going to have to deal with customers who want the feature removed and he's the one who has to tell them that it's impossible.

That's right menno. And Azeron is being dumb because my boss was sitting next to me while I was reading this post.

Oh yeah. My boss and I get along fine.

And Azeron, Mr Mensa, I am anything but a Butthead. I smoke and my son calls me that, so stop acting like you actually have a cluepon.

What Joppa did is a serious ethics violation. Period. Plenty of VZW employees read this site.

Sorry, but you do not get to decide if you are an arse or not. I'm keeping my opinion that you are. Deal with it.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. This is exactly the place to post that info. Kudos to Jop for having the balls to do it.

This means that 99% of the people who try this will end up getting MORE frustrated and not have their problem solved.

This data charge isn't something reps can just removed (even if they want to, believe me, I've tried) It's HARD CODED in the system, so you need to have someone with a way to get around those codes and typically the ONLY people who have that level of access is Retention.

So someone reads about this method on here, goes and buys a Chocolate touch and then just assumes she can call in and get the data taken off.

How do you think she'll feel when she finds out she can't?

These types of leaks help no one, and create more harm to boot.

I'd have to agree with everyone else. While it might be nice to "help" customers out by giving this information out, if Customer Service cannot for the life of them actually do what this request is asking of them, then why even bother telling everyone?

I think that the "integrity issue" is not about the rep, but about the company forcing the customers who want a decient phone ie.. touch screen, to get a data plan when they don't want it. Then because so many people complain about it they change policy going forward on the new phones but the old phones still require it.

Verizon's Touch Screen feature phones aren't "decent"

They have far more software and hardware issues than ANY other devices out there.

Really not the point of the reply.

A decent phone is the LG Clout, Samsung Intensity, or Moto Barrage. None of which require data.

EnV3 and EnVTouch both have had massive known issues, at least a recall a piece. The Chocolate touch is very prone to a broken screen and it's lower resolution than even some flip phones so stuff looks really grainy on it. The reality is new, but it's a low cost web phone with a cheap build quality.

So yes, my reply was valid. The only "decent" phones that require data are smartphones, and they've required it for years (and they do require it on all carriers)

"The only "decent" phones that require data are smartphones, and they've required it for years (and they do require it on all carriers)"


As well they should.

But an EnV3 shouldn't. Yes, because I say so. It is simply ludicrous for a phone that basically has mobile web 2.0 to require a $9.99 extra monthly charge.

again, I'm NOT saying I agree with the data requirement Azeron. I'm saying that it's there and it's mandatory, so assuming you can get around it by calling in enough times is the wrong attitude to have.


Seriously, you KNOW where epik and I stand on this issue. we think the requirement is bullshit just like you do. but that doesn't mean this suddenly makes Joppy right. He's not. What he said here will cause MORE problems, and it won't fix any unless the customer is lucky enough to get him or the few like him that somehow have this ability and haven't yet been fired for using it.

What's gotten into you? we're NOT TALKING IF DATA SHOULD BE REQUIRED. We're talking that since it currently IS required, you either need to accept it o...
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It's not hard to get to tech. When I have to call with an issue with my 6900...I get through tier one fairly quickly. *Shrug*

This isn't tech. This is a specific rep within tech, most likely in some retention branch. I know people in tech support. They CANNOT do this, even if they wanted to.

I do not agree with the data plan, but it's worth mentioning that churn (number of customers leaving verizon) actually went down this year, so Verizon's not losing customers (though it might be costing them upgrades)

If you are thinking of going to AT&T because of the data requirement on verizon, then you really dont want the samsung reality. You just want someone to remove the feature for you. Just go to AT&T and you wont have to have anyone try to remove the feature.

Thanks! Just canceled my verizon contract. Bye everyone, thanks for your help.

Sorry this is the first time I have been on PS for some days. I am also sorry to hear that you have decided to leave VZW. As I have learned through numerous posts in this thread, it is not ok to remove the data plan from the Multi Media phones even though I am able to. I sincerely apologize for giving you false hope. I thank all my colleagues for correcting me on this I just wish I learned the truth before making an ass of myself on the internet.

Just also to clarify; the billing system is only allowing me to take the data plan on the multi media phones and not PDA devices. Again this thread wasnt meant to open a case of worms; I thought I was doing something completely legitimate and ok and also trying to help a very frustrated cu...
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If 9.99 made him cancel his contract, then he did really want VZW. He was just looking for a way out. He just did you a favor.....now you can concentrate on your real customers.

🤣

Good thing you are not a Verizon employee. If you were I would call sour grapes. As it stands, the comment is just humorous.

@ justmarried- So I am guessing "real customers" will waste $120 a year, just to get a decent phone?

Wow! Look what they've done to you! Castration is a terrible thing.

😢

It's not Castration.

If he's backing off now it's because he consulted with his superiors.

Having Verizon sell the phone as REQUIRING DATA and then having it so everyone can remove it if they just call in and complain enough isn't how the system works.

Mandatory data on 3GMM sucks, period. but it's the way of things right now. If you don't want to accept it, the smartest thing is to either choose a different carrier (will get Vzw to change) or choose a different phone (will not get them to change). Buying the phone and then calling in AFTER the fact will get you a device where you are 99% likely to be forced to pay $10 for the contract, or pay the ETF to leave. It's not a smart move.

Actually...this is how a lot of those boycotts worked back in the sixties. Let's say a chain like Safeway did not employ any black managers. A person would go into Safeway, fill their cart full of items then go to the register and decide they were n't going to buy any of the goods becuase of Safeway's policy. So this would be starting up service and then right when it was time to sign the contract to get the phone activated... "On second thought..." Yeah, I can see the potential for bloodshed there...

Yeah besides for the fact that as soon as the phone is activate, you need to pay the restocking fee

And again, this is people purchasing the the device and contract hoping to get it removed. This is NOT the same at all.

I don't know what happened to you recently, but you KNOW this. No matter how much we agree that the mandatory data sucks, you KNOW that activating a line and demanding the data get removed is NOT the way to make a change.

I'm not a dude......