looking for plaintiffs potential vzn fraud suit
I believe vzn may be engaged in fraudulent and unfair business practices which is actionable in California (Section 17200). When I signed up for my most recent plan (15 year plus customer) I was assured that I could add (or subtract) more minutes without penalties if my usage changed. However, I recently attempted to increase my minutes from (1200 to 2000). The customer service rep, who was very rude, that helped me did not tell me that this would result in me agreeing to extend my contract one year. Just before the transaction went through I happened to ask about my contract term, when I was told of the extension. I cannot change my minutes without a new contract. This is not what I was sold when I agreed to the plan. I am looking for a...
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YAY! *does a jig*
no seriously...this is the worst place to get credible plaintiffs.
no seriously...this is the worst place to get credible plaintiffs.
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You are fast. Thank you for your support. I only need a couple of people to make this happen.
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er...my response was not one of support, but of in difference, because very few people will support you, and we hear about people tryign to file lawsuits all the time.
It's nothing special.
It's nothing special.
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Simply do what you are supposed to do.
I think you could change your rate plan as long as you don't take any promotions your contract doesn't extend beyond the contractual agreement end date. At least at ATTws is like that.
I think you could change your rate plan as long as you don't take any promotions your contract doesn't extend beyond the contractual agreement end date. At least at ATTws is like that.
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I am sure that somewhere in the terms and conditions fine print it is spelled out that the contract will be extended. however the normal person who doesnt carry a magnifying glass around, and who also does not have 3 hours to spend decifering it, would not read it. I know I wouldnt read it. I have worked for cingular for over a year and still have not read the terms and conditions. for the most part they are pretty standard it seems.
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You can change your price plan without a contract change as long as you are not taking a different promotion. You can change it as amny times as you wish. However, say the promotion (i.e unlimited nights & weekends w/1000 in network) that you currently have the next price plan available is 1600 minutes.
(Again, this is just an example) but if you took the new promotion you would get 2000 for the same price as the 1600 minutes. It is quite possible something similar happened in your case. You can also change your mind about any new contract within 30 days & revert back to what you had previously as long as the change didn't include equipment. So you are technically not locked into anything and can go back to your previous contract. Ke...
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(Again, this is just an example) but if you took the new promotion you would get 2000 for the same price as the 1600 minutes. It is quite possible something similar happened in your case. You can also change your mind about any new contract within 30 days & revert back to what you had previously as long as the change didn't include equipment. So you are technically not locked into anything and can go back to your previous contract. Ke...
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But if your plan you are on is an "expired plan" then when youchange the plan, those old promotions come off, and then the current promotions are placed on, with a new 12 month service contract.he can dispute it, but in the terms anconditions, it states that if he takes the promotion, and uses the promotion for a period of thirty days or more he is bound to a minimum 12 month renewal.
And if he/she states he never agreed to it, the policy is that by him/her taking the promotion(s) and keeping those benefits and using them he/she is bound to that 12 month service agreement.
And if he/she states he never agreed to it, the policy is that by him/her taking the promotion(s) and keeping those benefits and using them he/she is bound to that 12 month service agreement.
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With Verizon I came across this situation very often. With the worry free gurantee you can increase and decrease you plan minutes w/o extending your contract, that was WITH OUT. Unless you are out of contract, then you have to extend your contract. The billing system Verizon uses it is very easy to extend a customers contract w/o realizing this. If this did happen just call and remind them of the worry free gurantee and they will be happy to correct it. In my market they had to enter what was called a TICKLER, (just a technical abbrevieation don't read into too much) and it will be fixed.
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VOLVORacr said:
With Verizon I came across this situation very often. With the worry free gurantee you can increase and decrease you plan minutes w/o extending your contract, that was WITH OUT. Unless you are out of contract, then you have to extend your contract. The billing system Verizon uses it is very easy to extend a customers contract w/o realizing this. If this did happen just call and remind them of the worry free gurantee and they will be happy to correct it. In my market they had to enter what was called a TICKLER, (just a technical abbrevieation don't read into too much) and it will be fixed.
Lol... tickler.. quite a technical term...
~Steve
actually it's spelled TCKLR which is th...
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Read the fine print, save yourself some grief. Even if you did sue, it would take years for anything to come of it.
Or is this a joke?
Or is this a joke?
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Not to mention the usual mandatory arbitration clauses that make lawsuits pretty unlikely...
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Aleq said:
Not to mention the usual mandatory arbitration clauses that make lawsuits pretty unlikely...
Nailed it right on the head...
"We each agree to settle disputes (except certain small claims) only by arbitration. There's no judge or jury in arbitration, and review is limited, but an arbitrator can award the same damages and relief, and must honor the same limitations in this agreement, as a court would. If an applicablestatute provides for an award of attorney's fees, an arbitrator can award them too. We also each agree, to the fullest extent permitted by law that:
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It goes on and on from there for about 250 more words unter the section titled "Dispute Resolution and Mandator...
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According to Verizon's web site, it depends if it was special promotion or a change to a standard, existing plan:
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At any time, you have the option to change to any qualifying calling plan, at no additional fee, without extending the minimum term of your Customer Agreement. (You may have to purchase new equipment to be able to take advantage of a new calling plan.) To take advantage of promotional offers, including equipment upgrades, you will be required to extend the minimum term of your Customer Agreement.
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At any time, you have the option to change to any qualifying calling plan, at no additional fee, without extending the minimum term of your Customer Agreement. (You may have to purchase new equipment to be able to take advantage of a new calling plan.) To take advantage of promotional offers, including equipment upgrades, you will be required to extend the minimum term of your Customer Agreement.
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This is not what VZW standards are. Anytime I try to upgrade my plan, or add new features, they require me to extend my contract term. My personal opinion is this is B-S.
I completely agree with the original premise. We are told when we originally sign up with VZW that we can add, change, or delete features to or from our plan without penalty at any time. Then they turn around and extend your contract without saying anything each time a change is made to your plan. This sounds like a penalty to me.
I completely agree with the original premise. We are told when we originally sign up with VZW that we can add, change, or delete features to or from our plan without penalty at any time. Then they turn around and extend your contract without saying anything each time a change is made to your plan. This sounds like a penalty to me.
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SForsyth01 said:
This is not what VZW standards are. Anytime I try to upgrade my plan, or add new features, they require me to extend my contract term. My personal opinion is this is B-S.
I completely agree with the original premise. We are told when we originally sign up with VZW that we can add, change, or delete features to or from our plan without penalty at any time. Then they turn around and extend your contract without saying anything each time a change is made to your plan. This sounds like a penalty to me.
But you don't to determine what the "meaning" of penalty is, the company does.As for as the company line is penalty" means paying a "fee of monetary value" in exchange for a deviatio...
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And you can make those changes, if you want txt messaging, pix messaging, mobile web, ect. it does not ask you for any kind of agreement to get those items, it'll just cost more to have them. Now say you have a 400 minute calling plan unlimited nights and weekends in network and free nationwide long distance for 39.99...say that they were to change that calling plan to 800 peak minutes and not move the price... with that calling plan you would have to extend your contract because you are now getting more than you were before and not paying any more. Therefore they ask for an agreement that since you getting such a wonderful deal that you will stay with them for a period of time.
Now heres the catch...if you are in the first year of a 2 ye...
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Now heres the catch...if you are in the first year of a 2 ye...
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Dear IMC:
I am a lawyer (and a well known one at that at) and I have no idea what you just said. That is the problem. Thanks!
I am a lawyer (and a well known one at that at) and I have no idea what you just said. That is the problem. Thanks!
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adamnyla said:
Dear IMC:
I am a lawyer (and a well known one at that at) and I have no idea what you just said. That is the problem. Thanks!
I'm not lawyer and I can understand it perfectly... hmmm maybe I should be well known.
~Steve
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Yah, but practically every plan has a promotion called "Unlimited N&W" and "Unlimited IN-Calling" that people want ;) ... the only plans that I can't see changing their contract lenght are SingleRate plans, lol.
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If someone is on the americas choice 500 anytime w/ unlmtd n&ws and unlmtd in network calling and they want to go to americas choice 800 with unllmtd n&ws and unlmtd in calling then there is no contract required. However if someone has 1000 in network minutes and they switch to a new plan w/ unlmtd in network then a contract extension is required (if applicable).
If you look at the title description of your calling plan located in your bill it will say for example Americas Choice 500 anytime $49.99 1y 0504. The last four digits represents when the calling came out or originated, so in the example I provided that calling plan originated in may of this year. A customer can change their calling plan to a calling plan w/in their orgination da...
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If you look at the title description of your calling plan located in your bill it will say for example Americas Choice 500 anytime $49.99 1y 0504. The last four digits represents when the calling came out or originated, so in the example I provided that calling plan originated in may of this year. A customer can change their calling plan to a calling plan w/in their orgination da...
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A condensed version of what the previous person said is that if you are on grandfathered pricing, you can adjust your plan up or down keeping the same promotions on the original grandfathered family of plans that would have been available at the time without extending your contract.
This makes sense thusly:
If you decide that you want new promotions such as Unlimited Innetwork calling, or 2000 minutes instead of 1600 for 99.99, you're taking advantage of a promotion that you would not have had made available to you at the time you started your original plan. Your certainly welcome to reap the benefits a new customer has, but to expect to do so without a similar contract term as that new customer would be non-sensical
This makes sense thusly:
If you decide that you want new promotions such as Unlimited Innetwork calling, or 2000 minutes instead of 1600 for 99.99, you're taking advantage of a promotion that you would not have had made available to you at the time you started your original plan. Your certainly welcome to reap the benefits a new customer has, but to expect to do so without a similar contract term as that new customer would be non-sensical
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I'm sorry to tell you, you can file, but you woouldn't win.The main reason i say that, is that i have read your terms and conditions, they are pretty much the same as with my company i work for - ATTWS/Cingular.They do state that if you choose to change your service package and take advantage of any current promotions that you are required to take a service contract renewal.
Legally unless you have written proof of "you can change without renewal but take new promotions" you won't win.You also have to remember that when you change your plan for whatever reason, that YOU are changing the terms and conditions of your current contract which for the plan, price point minutes and promotions on your current package.
When you change your pa...
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Legally unless you have written proof of "you can change without renewal but take new promotions" you won't win.You also have to remember that when you change your plan for whatever reason, that YOU are changing the terms and conditions of your current contract which for the plan, price point minutes and promotions on your current package.
When you change your pa...
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Dear Agent:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. However, I was not trying to take advantage of a "new" plan, but only add minutes to my existing plan at same terms and conditions. That is what I had been told I could do when I agreed to the contract. The customer service rep would not let me do that and I had to go to a supervisor. I am sure there are many others who are not as insistent as I am or are unaware of their rights. Just to show you how these representatives do not know their own rules or are poorly trained or intentionally mislead to get a sale (or all the above), I just tried to up my minutes on my existing plan and was at first told that they will have to prorate my usage, which I understand, but that I would not credit ...
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Thank you for your thoughtful reply. However, I was not trying to take advantage of a "new" plan, but only add minutes to my existing plan at same terms and conditions. That is what I had been told I could do when I agreed to the contract. The customer service rep would not let me do that and I had to go to a supervisor. I am sure there are many others who are not as insistent as I am or are unaware of their rights. Just to show you how these representatives do not know their own rules or are poorly trained or intentionally mislead to get a sale (or all the above), I just tried to up my minutes on my existing plan and was at first told that they will have to prorate my usage, which I understand, but that I would not credit ...
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adamnyla:
If, as you stated in your original posting, you are a "15 year plus customer", I cannot believe that in those fifteen years you didn't make contract changes without having had to extend for an additional year each time. It has happened to me every time that I've made such changes, in all the years of my cellular dealings with the company. I.e. throughout the various name changes: New York Telephone, NYNEX, Bell Atlantic Mobile and Verizon Wireless.
If, as you stated in your original posting, you are a "15 year plus customer", I cannot believe that in those fifteen years you didn't make contract changes without having had to extend for an additional year each time. It has happened to me every time that I've made such changes, in all the years of my cellular dealings with the company. I.e. throughout the various name changes: New York Telephone, NYNEX, Bell Atlantic Mobile and Verizon Wireless.
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I would like to point out something.
When you have an older plan, you are "grandfathered" into that plan. You can keep it as long as you don't alter your agreement.
For example say you are on a slightly older 1200 minute plan with some features. That plan may no longer be available. The features that were allowed on that plan may no longer be available. You would be unable to switch to say a 2000 minute grandfathered plan.
There are disclaimers on the "Customer Terms and Agreements" that you are bound to.
Dispute Resolution and Independant Arbitration
Most customer concerns can be resolved through our Customer Service Department. If, however, you have an issue that cannot be resolved without third-party interventio ...
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When you have an older plan, you are "grandfathered" into that plan. You can keep it as long as you don't alter your agreement.
For example say you are on a slightly older 1200 minute plan with some features. That plan may no longer be available. The features that were allowed on that plan may no longer be available. You would be unable to switch to say a 2000 minute grandfathered plan.
There are disclaimers on the "Customer Terms and Agreements" that you are bound to.
Dispute Resolution and Independant Arbitration
Most customer concerns can be resolved through our Customer Service Department. If, however, you have an issue that cannot be resolved without third-party interventio ...
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adamnyla said:...
I believe vzn may be engaged in fraudulent and unfair business practices which is actionable in California (Section 17200). When I signed up for my most recent plan (15 year plus customer) I was assured that I could add (or subtract) more minutes without penalties if my usage changed. However, I recently attempted to increase my minutes from (1200 to 2000). The customer service rep, who was very rude, that helped me did not tell me that this would result in me agreeing to extend my contract one year. Just before the transaction went through I happened to ask about my contract term, when I was told of the extension. I cannot change my minutes without a new contract. This is not what I was sold when I agre
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When you requested to change your price plan did you request not to have the contract extended? As long as you stay within the promotion that your contract covers you can go up or down in your mins without the contract extension, but if you decide to take the newest promotion that is being offered like the 2000 min plan then the contract would be extended because it's the start of a new promotion that your current contract doesn't cover. The rep that was changing your plan should have offered both options to you and then it still would become YOUR choice to extend or not
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That's a good point... didn't the old promotional offer go from 1200 to 1600 minutes? They just upped the minutes on the higher priced plans in the 0804 price plan codes, didn't they? So if he calls up CS and says he wants to be on the new 2000 minute price plan they would go ahead and give it to him, with a new one-year extension. He could have simply stayed on the 0504 price plan code, (or whatever code he was on) and taken the 1600 minutes or whatever, and no extension would have been required.
I don't really buy that this guy is a lawyer, but if he is then he's not a very bright one. A bright lawyer would realize that Verizon spends millions on legal representation, and all of their terms and conditions are gone over with a fine...
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I don't really buy that this guy is a lawyer, but if he is then he's not a very bright one. A bright lawyer would realize that Verizon spends millions on legal representation, and all of their terms and conditions are gone over with a fine...
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Verizon always lets a person know if upgrading price plans will mean a new contract period. Their policy does not allow a 2 year contract over the phone, it must be written and signed.
I have never had a customer complain of a phantom contract with Verizon.
If this guy is a lawyer then he should be ashamed of himself and, depending on the state he practices in he may face disciplinary action for improper conduct from the state bar.
Just more trash from either a disgruntled customer or a clever competitor.
Every company has reps that are not exactly professional. I have fired many in my time.
There is, however a huge distinction between misunderstanding a customer's request and outright misrepresentation. Verizon call center pers...
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I have never had a customer complain of a phantom contract with Verizon.
If this guy is a lawyer then he should be ashamed of himself and, depending on the state he practices in he may face disciplinary action for improper conduct from the state bar.
Just more trash from either a disgruntled customer or a clever competitor.
Every company has reps that are not exactly professional. I have fired many in my time.
There is, however a huge distinction between misunderstanding a customer's request and outright misrepresentation. Verizon call center pers...
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"A bright lawyer would realize that...there are no mistakes or loopholes or legally liable..." If only, if only. How was your visit from Santa Claus this year? I think it is clear that only one of us went to law school(or even college). My firm is one of the most prominent in the state and opponents are always a fortune 500 (or even 100) company. Usually more than one....I am not looking to be a plaintiff. I saved myself. I suspect many have not. That is what concerns me. If these are widespread practices and there are millions of customers, I want to know and those people may have recourse. Don't be so sure about arbitration in a class action or 17200. Let experts worry about it. All I want to know, is this common practice?...[To the...
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Son, you must be just a real aroogant S.O.B., I got news for you, now grasp your legal eagle brain around this.You can while under a contract for 2 years change your plan,while incurring no contract renewal within the first year, because legally you cannot be bound to another 2 year contract without agreement either electronically or written signature.
Now with that being said, after that point of 1 year, if you change your plan and have 12 months or less then your contract can be renewed, and if you claearly read your terms and conditions, it states that take any new promotions, and you would have had to, since your plan was previously no longer offered in that form and would have to had been given new promotions, if were taken and us...
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Now with that being said, after that point of 1 year, if you change your plan and have 12 months or less then your contract can be renewed, and if you claearly read your terms and conditions, it states that take any new promotions, and you would have had to, since your plan was previously no longer offered in that form and would have to had been given new promotions, if were taken and us...
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AGENT DEBIT said:...
Son, you must be just a real aroogant S.O.B., I got news for you, now grasp your legal eagle brain around this.You can while under a contract for 2 years change your plan,while incurring no contract renewal within the first year, because legally you cannot be bound to another 2 year contract without agreement either electronically or written signature.
Now with that being said, after that point of 1 year, if you change your plan and have 12 months or less then your contract can be renewed, and if you claearly read your terms and conditions, it states that take any new promotions, and you would have had to, since your plan was previously no longer offered in that form and would have to had been give
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adamnyla:
You've written "That is what concerns me. If these are widespread practices and there are millions of customers, I want to know and those people may have recourse.
Am I to presume that you "want to know" for purely altruistic reasons? Or, perhaps, is your real intent to contact potential plaintiffs for the one third of any award that may be due to the plaintiff's attorney?
Greed is everywhere.
You've written "That is what concerns me. If these are widespread practices and there are millions of customers, I want to know and those people may have recourse.
Am I to presume that you "want to know" for purely altruistic reasons? Or, perhaps, is your real intent to contact potential plaintiffs for the one third of any award that may be due to the plaintiff's attorney?
Greed is everywhere.
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What do you call 100,000 lawyers in the bottom of the ocean?
A good start
A good start
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I don't think you are even a lawyer, to be honest. Not only did I go to college, but I have two bachelor's degrees and I'm starting work on a master's. The sad thing is that none of my education is in the legal profession, but I still seem to have a more realistic expectation of your legal chances in this matter than you do. When you come onto a forum like this and start bragging about your firm and how great you are, it doesn't make your story more plausible. It only makes you seem like more of a liar trying to pass yourself off as someone important. My guess is that if you ARE a lawyer, you are some small time ham-and-egger, hoping against hope to hit the lottery with a class-action lawsuit against the evil corporation. In the words ...
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he can't be a lawyer... he would have read that clause in the contract about arbitration... i don't know too many illiterate lawyers.
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PhoenixAshes said:Oh, they're definitely out there.
he can't be a lawyer... he would have read that clause in the contract about arbitration... i don't know too many illiterate lawyers.
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I had a two year contract which expired one year ago. I have resisted signing a new deal because I was waiting for newer, better phones esp the one from Motorola with blue tooth (710?). Luckily, I did not run right out on that one because of all the problems that I have heard about. I also have made the decision to get a blackberry (or trio or ?). Not sure if me and my firm was going with verizon. [I think my mind may be made up!] but am waiting for my IT people to advise me after the new year. All I want to say further, is that I did know my rights and that appears to be the only thing saving me, not the least, from being charged potentially hundreds of dollars I did not owe. The only way I was able to protect myself was to insist the ...
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You just posted your contract expired 1yr ago. therefore no longer under the terms of the original contract so requesting to up your minutes would automatically renew your contract because of your renewal status. So, how can you justify a lawsuit toward Verizon.
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See something is off, you complain about them and suing them, then after rwading your other posts, it comes down to them telling you that the plan was going to be prorated for noth the old and the new plan, and then wanted to get credited for the overage due to proration, i don't see the problem, you chose to change the plan, after being advised it would be prorated, i think they gave you the credit for the overage to keep you uiet, but i got news for you, if you changed your plan, you did renew contract for yourself, plans and upgrades both individually and together can get you a renewal, for the minimum of 1 year.
If you dispute it you will re-rated to your previous plan and debited for any overage, you just leveraged yourself with th...
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If you dispute it you will re-rated to your previous plan and debited for any overage, you just leveraged yourself with th...
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I do understand your concern and I do apologize for any inconvenience. When a calling plan is changed a confirmation package is automatically generated and mailed out. The package specifically states that a contract was extended and also states that if you don't agree to the terms and conditions of the calling plan change then you can change your calling plan back to your old plan 30 days from the date of the package. You also can change your calling plan w/out extending your contract, as long as you don't accept any new promotions. Hope this info help, thank you for your time in reading this letter.
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See my One Third of Any Award message above.
No, I don't work for any cellular company.
No, I don't work for any cellular company.
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I will give you my honest opinion/advice. I'm trying to sound as un-biased as possible, so please just hear me out as this is nothing personal.
So many people are very quick to threaten legal action, and threaten it over the smallest things that simply can be resolved at a much lower level.
The fact that you were not advised of a contract renewal does not constitute business fraud in any way. A representative made a mistake, and as far as their attitude, I'm sorry they were rude. There is no justification for rudeness, however I assure you-you can't be held to a contract over the phone if not verbally read the terms, and it is pasted verbatim in your account. Sadly, to see your accounts memos, you would have to have them subpened, which ...
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So many people are very quick to threaten legal action, and threaten it over the smallest things that simply can be resolved at a much lower level.
The fact that you were not advised of a contract renewal does not constitute business fraud in any way. A representative made a mistake, and as far as their attitude, I'm sorry they were rude. There is no justification for rudeness, however I assure you-you can't be held to a contract over the phone if not verbally read the terms, and it is pasted verbatim in your account. Sadly, to see your accounts memos, you would have to have them subpened, which ...
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You can change your calling plan to any new promotion without extension of agreement as long as you have 12 months or more remaining on your current agreement. You can change your anytime minutes up or down anytime without extension regardless of months remaining on current agreement as long as your promotions remain the same, IE. # of N&W mins, # of IN minutes etc..
Also, did you sign the customer agreement? If you did, you might want to read it again. Here is a couple of excerpts followed by the link to the entire agreement.
Your Rights To Change Or End Your Service; Termination Fees; Phone Number Portability
ΓΒβΒ‘ Except as explicitly permitted by this agreement, you're agreeing to maintain service with us for your minimum term plu...
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Also, did you sign the customer agreement? If you did, you might want to read it again. Here is a couple of excerpts followed by the link to the entire agreement.
Your Rights To Change Or End Your Service; Termination Fees; Phone Number Portability
ΓΒβΒ‘ Except as explicitly permitted by this agreement, you're agreeing to maintain service with us for your minimum term plu...
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Wow, this all shut mr. whiney lawyer man up pretty quick. o.O
I workl for Cingular, btw. π
I workl for Cingular, btw. π
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sounds like you just got bad service. like others have said you CAN change your price plan without renewing your contract. i am going to take a wild guess and say that the rep who you were dealing with was new and didn't know this. of course that doesn't make it right and i woulnd't just let it be but a lawsuit won't be necessary (or effective). you just need to talk to a supervisor and explain the situation and get them to put you back on your old promotion and your contract can be rolled back. it's going to take some effort on your part unfortunatly.
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its all in the fine print when you signed your contract with vzn. as far as what you are told, think about it the person who sold it to you is a salesman or saleswoman whatever, they get paid based on what they sale. some sales people will tell you anything to get you to buy, however wrong this may be. they only allow you like 90 days to change your plan without contract extension last time i looked
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here's the potential deal-breaker in your situation, buddy (among several other responses including my own).
"This agreement and the documents to which it refers form the entire agreement between us on their subjects. You canβt rely on any other documents or statements on those subjects by any sales or service representatives, and you have no other rights with respect to service or this agreement, except as specifically provided by law."
That second sentence is written in BOLDFACE font.
Bottom line is you are responsible for what you sign.
Don't want to sound rude, but lawyer or non-lawyer I dont care - you've got nothing.
~Steve
"This agreement and the documents to which it refers form the entire agreement between us on their subjects. You canβt rely on any other documents or statements on those subjects by any sales or service representatives, and you have no other rights with respect to service or this agreement, except as specifically provided by law."
That second sentence is written in BOLDFACE font.
Bottom line is you are responsible for what you sign.
Don't want to sound rude, but lawyer or non-lawyer I dont care - you've got nothing.
~Steve
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