Churn????
Hi,
I'm an occasional visitor to this forum and an even less frequent contributer, but I have learn a great deal from everyone here and I thank you all.......
My question concerns the terms that are thrown around frequently when discussing who the better provider is...
If someone can take a few minutes to clarify some of these terms and even tell who does and where they are compiled (companies themselves, industry periodicals, third party, FCC, etc.) it would be really helpful for those not from the wireless industry to keep up with the conversations...
here are a few i've been unclear about
- churn
- coverage (for example, does roaming coverage come as an extra charge?)
- customer service (just when you call or in store coun...
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I'm an occasional visitor to this forum and an even less frequent contributer, but I have learn a great deal from everyone here and I thank you all.......
My question concerns the terms that are thrown around frequently when discussing who the better provider is...
If someone can take a few minutes to clarify some of these terms and even tell who does and where they are compiled (companies themselves, industry periodicals, third party, FCC, etc.) it would be really helpful for those not from the wireless industry to keep up with the conversations...
here are a few i've been unclear about
- churn
- coverage (for example, does roaming coverage come as an extra charge?)
- customer service (just when you call or in store coun...
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Churn- The rate at which customers leave a company.
Coverage- The network of the carrier. If you are roaming, you are considered out of that company's coverage area(though you may still get service by pulling from another carrier's tower.)
Customer Service - Usually this is used to refer to the people you talk to when you dial "611" from your cell phone. But sometimes is used to generalize the people who work there.
Call service - I've never really heard this term, but it probably has somthing to do with directory assistance, long distance, or whatever..
Coverage- The network of the carrier. If you are roaming, you are considered out of that company's coverage area(though you may still get service by pulling from another carrier's tower.)
Customer Service - Usually this is used to refer to the people you talk to when you dial "611" from your cell phone. But sometimes is used to generalize the people who work there.
Call service - I've never really heard this term, but it probably has somthing to do with directory assistance, long distance, or whatever..
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so when "churn rate" is talked about....is that the percentage of people leaving to the ones signing up, or the ones already there?
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so it's like "we signed up 100 people but lost 1, so our churn rate is 1%"?
is it then correct to assume that these rates will eventually approach 100% as the wireless industry becomes saturated and the only new cell customers will be 10 yr olds getting their first phone.....i mean 'cause you leave a company you've got to go somewhere, right?
Also, do these rate usually refer to specific markets or can the "churn rate "published be talking about U.S. and Europe opposed to someone else's just U.S. market?
is it then correct to assume that these rates will eventually approach 100% as the wireless industry becomes saturated and the only new cell customers will be 10 yr olds getting their first phone.....i mean 'cause you leave a company you've got to go somewhere, right?
Also, do these rate usually refer to specific markets or can the "churn rate "published be talking about U.S. and Europe opposed to someone else's just U.S. market?
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Churn rate is a measure of customer or employee attrition, and is defined as the number of customers who discontinue a service or employees who leave a company during a specified time period divided by the average total number of customers or employees over that same time period. For example, churn rate has been an ongoing concern of telephone and cell phone services in areas where several companies compete and make it easy to transfer from one service to another.
Changes in a business' churn rate can provide feedback for a company as it may indicate customer response to service, pricing, competition and so on, as well as the average length of time an individual remains a customer. As such, churn rate is an important business metric. To e...
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Changes in a business' churn rate can provide feedback for a company as it may indicate customer response to service, pricing, competition and so on, as well as the average length of time an individual remains a customer. As such, churn rate is an important business metric. To e...
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well, this is different then what was said before...It's then more like "verizon averaged 60 million customers last month and they lost 6 hundred thousand over that month so their churn rate is 1%"
that seems a little high to me...
but I guess it means that, well, you lost and gained averaging 60 mil...so you were up to 62 mil at one point and down to 57 mil at one point....losing a total of 600 thousand in that time frame......
is that more like it?
that seems a little high to me...
but I guess it means that, well, you lost and gained averaging 60 mil...so you were up to 62 mil at one point and down to 57 mil at one point....losing a total of 600 thousand in that time frame......
is that more like it?
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you got it. The churn rate is one important indicator on how the firm is doing. These companies spend enormous funds on marketing to get new customers and it is less expensive to keep a customer once you have had them. The churn information can grow your base by pinpointing what needs improvement as well as lower your marketing costs.
Recent Rresearch seems to indicate that given the current way phones and services are marketed that the US market is almost saturated so keeping customers and stealing them is important. The companies have also turned their focus on other profit centers such as high speed networks and data content (the new bells and whistles of the industry).
Recent Rresearch seems to indicate that given the current way phones and services are marketed that the US market is almost saturated so keeping customers and stealing them is important. The companies have also turned their focus on other profit centers such as high speed networks and data content (the new bells and whistles of the industry).
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sammy2 said:
you got it. The churn rate is one important indicator on how the firm is doing.
Absolutely. And in recent quarters, Verizon and Nextel have been doing best at keeping churn low (i.e. customers tend not to leave), while Cingular/ATT Wireless and Sprint have been losing a lot more customers comparitively:
"Nextel also has the lowest churn, which represents the percentage of users who leave their carrier per quarter. Nextel's rate in the third quarter was 1.5%. Verizon was a close second, with 1.7%, with Sprint and Cingular picking up the rear with churn rates of 2.7% and 2.8% respectively. Churn is a key metric used to gauge customer satisfaction."
http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/ »...
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Not totally, as their are more and more cases of "phantom churn"- where customers cancel their exisitng services just after activating a new service with the same carrier, or LNP churn, where customers ports out to another carrier, activates a new service with the same carrier, then ports their number to the new service with the old carrier.
They don't record either under the current chrun trends,so the numbers are a bit misleading.
They don't record either under the current chrun trends,so the numbers are a bit misleading.
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Yes, but phantom churn and LNP churn are things that would affect Nextel and Verizon as well, would they not? Please to clarify if I'm mistaken.
It just seems, quarter after quarter, that Cinguular and ATTW are back-of-the-pack here. With ATTW, I keep hearing it had to do with a combination of number portability issues, a major CS database upgrade meltdown, their network, and ATTW 'giving away the moon' to its customers (customers that are that price-conscious will of course leave the second a better deal comes along anyway), but I've never understood precisely why Cingular has bad churn.
It just seems, quarter after quarter, that Cinguular and ATTW are back-of-the-pack here. With ATTW, I keep hearing it had to do with a combination of number portability issues, a major CS database upgrade meltdown, their network, and ATTW 'giving away the moon' to its customers (customers that are that price-conscious will of course leave the second a better deal comes along anyway), but I've never understood precisely why Cingular has bad churn.
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regular churn had to do with 3 issues for ATTWS,
1)siebel, the program that ran plan changes and features.the program crashed for 3 months everyday, when theyt updated in Nov,2003, when it was up, it would crash, and when it didn't crash the plan could be backdated,something ATTWS customers loved through the TDMA systems.
2)Offers for phones, better deals then existing customers, and customers got pissed off about that and never forgot, cuz the year prior in 2002/2003, customers would be given large sums of credit to match those prices.They just could afford it to keep doing it.
3)LNP, soetimes it would 1 day 3 weeks to get a number ported in, there were lots of customers who cancelled their new service for that reason
1)siebel, the program that ran plan changes and features.the program crashed for 3 months everyday, when theyt updated in Nov,2003, when it was up, it would crash, and when it didn't crash the plan could be backdated,something ATTWS customers loved through the TDMA systems.
2)Offers for phones, better deals then existing customers, and customers got pissed off about that and never forgot, cuz the year prior in 2002/2003, customers would be given large sums of credit to match those prices.They just could afford it to keep doing it.
3)LNP, soetimes it would 1 day 3 weeks to get a number ported in, there were lots of customers who cancelled their new service for that reason
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i guess it can be attributed to cingular's "no fee waiving" policy...unless it's an error of course.
people are used to gettting handouts, I guess, and don't like being told "no". At least, that's usually what I hear.
people are used to gettting handouts, I guess, and don't like being told "no". At least, that's usually what I hear.
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That kinda makes sense. I see a lot of that particular kind of teeth-gnashing on the Cingular forum.
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There is also a difference between voluntary and involuntary churn. Involuntary churn is due to people who the carrier disconnects for non-payment and the like. You usually need to really dig deep into a company's financials to see the two types of churn separated.
Phantom churn is often done by disreputable dealers who want to sell a phone to an existing customer and get new customer commissions. Rarely is it initiated by the customer.
Phantom churn is often done by disreputable dealers who want to sell a phone to an existing customer and get new customer commissions. Rarely is it initiated by the customer.
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What crack pipe you using, the customer does with the thinking they can do a LNP to their new serrvice.
The funny thing is that i Hear customers say i want a free phone, then when the company gives them one, they say, it must be cheap cuz its free, so credit me an expensive one. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
The funny thing is that i Hear customers say i want a free phone, then when the company gives them one, they say, it must be cheap cuz its free, so credit me an expensive one. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
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What has built the US wireless industry is also its greatest nightmare. American consumers are among the greatest discount hunters in the world. We like WalMart, Costco, Ebay and anything else that we think will give us a discount. American consumers have gotten used to the free phone. The free or deeply discounted phone was necessary to build customer bases and the industry. What drives this is a retail community that needs to make another sale to survive. We have seen reps create phantom churn because of the customer's phone breaking. Rather than exchange it directly and make nothing the rep signs the customer up, gives them a discounted phone and makes money where they would not have before.
Consumers from the rest of the world pay full ...
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Consumers from the rest of the world pay full ...
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Praise Jesus er.. I mean SPCSVZWJeff, he speaks the truth and FYI, a Canadian created EBAY, but thats their little contribution to the world.
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AGENT DEBIT said:They also gave us Alanis Morrisette...a more worthy contribution I cannot think of.
Praise Jesus er.. I mean SPCSVZWJeff, he speaks the truth and FYI, a Canadian created EBAY, but thats their little contribution to the world.
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-SHARD- said:When you quit jamming your worthless Canadian quarters into our vending machines (and thusly ruining our economy) I won't rag you any more.
we've already apologized enough for that you're not get any more!
P.S. Stop wearing thongs on our beaches. ;)
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Can't forget Bryan Adams, either. But then, they did give us The Kids In The Hall. So all is forgiven.
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Corpo Rat said:You know what? I completely forgot about "Kids in the Hall"...one of my ALL time favorite programs (and available on DVD at a location near you...unless you live in Saskatchewan (sp?), where nothing is nearby). They also gave us Eugene Levy, Dave Thomas, John Candy, and Rich Moranis. I'll let Canada slide for those fine gentlemen.
Can't forget Bryan Adams, either. But then, they did give us The Kids In The Hall. So all is forgiven.
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SPCSVZWJeff said:...
What has built the US wireless industry is also its greatest nightmare. American consumers are among the greatest discount hunters in the world. We like WalMart, Costco, Ebay and anything else that we think will give us a discount. American consumers have gotten used to the free phone. The free or deeply discounted phone was necessary to build customer bases and the industry. What drives this is a retail community that needs to make another sale to survive. We have seen reps create phantom churn because of the customer's phone breaking. Rather than exchange it directly and make nothing the rep signs the customer up, gives them a discounted phone and makes money where they would not have before.
Consumer
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Yeah, we do seem to have a subculture of clueless entitlement in this country... I'm not talking social programs, I'm talking in attitude. A lot of ppl seem to think that they should either get something for free, or that if they complain long and loud enough they should get a break, regardless of the merits of their situation.
What those ppl don't understand is that often, when something is cheap or free, you're actually going to be paying more for it in the long-run (think cheap products that break down often), and that whining and screaming simply pisses ppl off, and makes them NOT want to accomodate you.
I really don't understand how 'greedy and rude' became an accepted standard to getting a great deal and being a smart cons...
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What those ppl don't understand is that often, when something is cheap or free, you're actually going to be paying more for it in the long-run (think cheap products that break down often), and that whining and screaming simply pisses ppl off, and makes them NOT want to accomodate you.
I really don't understand how 'greedy and rude' became an accepted standard to getting a great deal and being a smart cons...
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These customers should go to jamaica... Over there the merchant finds it insulting if the customer doesn't try to haggle w/ them...
What I don't understand about the "Rude & greedy" customers is that they get made at us (Wireless Carriers) for wanting to turn a profit... I mean... How is it ok for them to get a $600 phone for free... But it's not ok for us to turn a profit...
I think what all these customers should do is get together and start the nation's first Non-Profit Wireless Carrier... They could call it Nopro Wireless or something... just a thought.
What I don't understand about the "Rude & greedy" customers is that they get made at us (Wireless Carriers) for wanting to turn a profit... I mean... How is it ok for them to get a $600 phone for free... But it's not ok for us to turn a profit...
I think what all these customers should do is get together and start the nation's first Non-Profit Wireless Carrier... They could call it Nopro Wireless or something... just a thought.
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speck said:
I think what all these customers should do is get together and start the nation's first Non-Profit Wireless Carrier... They could call it Nopro Wireless or something... just a thought.
I'm thinking back to a Chris Rock character (maybe on SNL?) that would try to buy things, and no matter what price was quoted to him he'd always yell, "GOOD LAWD! THAT'S EXPENSIVE!!!" and then he'd try to talk the price way down in insane ways.
It was like, "A DOLLAH for some PEPSI!?!! GOOD LAWD!! Do I LOOK LIKE Donald Trump?! Tell you what, you SAVE the cup and just pour some into my HANDS for a DIME! What you SAY?".
😁
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🤣
I remember that! Crap you're right... That's exactly what they're like... to the "T"
I remember that! Crap you're right... That's exactly what they're like... to the "T"
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My favorite is "You mean I have to PAY for a phone???!!!" after they've had the account one month and dropped their handset in the toilet... Duh, dipsqueak, you have to pay for a phone... 🙄
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per my prior post it is not about how many you have signed up but rather how many the firm has lost as subscribers over compared to the AVERAGE total number of subscribers during a given period of time.
the market is self defined by the customer base.
Portability can greatly affect churn rates because subscribers no longer feel captive. Of course there can be large costs to those who are have signed up for one or two years and break the contract early. As long as you have a pohne that can work on another carrier's network or are willing to purchase another phone than you are not captive and can increase the churn rate by leaving.
As the US market increases its subscriber base qualtiy service including customer service is vital. T...
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the market is self defined by the customer base.
Portability can greatly affect churn rates because subscribers no longer feel captive. Of course there can be large costs to those who are have signed up for one or two years and break the contract early. As long as you have a pohne that can work on another carrier's network or are willing to purchase another phone than you are not captive and can increase the churn rate by leaving.
As the US market increases its subscriber base qualtiy service including customer service is vital. T...
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Churn - is frequently spoken of in a communications context, where it refers to the tendency of Internet and cell-phone subscribers to switch providers. The most common reasons for churn are dissatisfaction with an existing provider, the lure of a lower price for equivalent service from a different provider, and the lure of better service for the same price from a different provider. Churn can also result from a change in the subscriber's geographic location, the desire for increased connection speed, or a need for different or enhanced cell-phone coverage. The statistics are gathered internally but might be made available to stock holders.
Coverage - is the territory that the provider can reasonably be expected to provide the ex[ected se...
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Coverage - is the territory that the provider can reasonably be expected to provide the ex[ected se...
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Companies regularly determine why someone has left as a subscriber which is why VZW has focused on their large network as compared to increasing free minutes. As much as folks complain about the fewer free minutes fee subscribers are leaving because of it.
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