Steve Jobs Explains Apple's Position on Adobe's Flash
I read it, and it makes sense.
Did anyone know that Apple used to own 20% of Adobe???
Anyway, I can say, after reading what Steve had to say that I, for the first time, completely support Apple's decision to not allow flash on the iPhone or iPad platforms.
It honestly just makes way to much sense to argue with.
Before responding, head over to the read link and actually read what he has to say.
Anyway, I can say, after reading what Steve had to say that I, for the first time, completely support Apple's decision to not allow flash on the iPhone or iPad platforms.
It honestly just makes way to much sense to argue with.
Before responding, head over to the read link and actually read what he has to say.
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Whatever man. Apple can have the best reason ever to not support Flash, but the simple truth is people want it, and it is exceedingly prevalent on the web. When HTML5 becomes more accepted, then I am all for it. All Apple is doing here is telling people how to use their technology, as always. And I DID read the article. He can be right on every point, but he is still wrong for the consumer.
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whatever man. You have your opinion, I have mine. I will be enjoying Flash on my Android phone, and when HTML5 becomes more adopted, I will enjoy that on my Android phone as well. To each their own, but there are many reasons I don't use an iPhone. Or an iPad. Or a Mac.
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Android is a solid OS, I especially love the webkit browser it uses.
And the touch interface...
And the App store...
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I'm not trying to start a flame war dude, I just agree with what Jobs had to say.
Flash is going the way of the cassette tape. I mean, sure, some people still use them.... haha
And the touch interface...
And the App store...
😛
I'm not trying to start a flame war dude, I just agree with what Jobs had to say.
Flash is going the way of the cassette tape. I mean, sure, some people still use them.... haha
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Even if Flash does go the way of the 8-track, its still going to be YEARS before HTML5 is widely accepted. I have no doubt whatsoever that it is the better platform, but its not here yet, not by a long shot. So Apple saying they won't use it is dumb. Retarded. Douche-tastic. A self-inflicted gunshot wound. And, as usual, it is Apple telling its consumers how to use their devices. If that's what people want, great for them. I don't get it.
Sorry, I'm really not trying to start a flamewar either. I just hate Apple. And its not blind fanboyism. I've used iPhones, iPods, and my girl has a Mac Mini - which I want to throw out the window. Their philosophy is so closed. Its tantamount to saying "We know better. We know what's goo...
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Sorry, I'm really not trying to start a flamewar either. I just hate Apple. And its not blind fanboyism. I've used iPhones, iPods, and my girl has a Mac Mini - which I want to throw out the window. Their philosophy is so closed. Its tantamount to saying "We know better. We know what's goo...
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We know better. We know what's good for you
I think it's more like "This is the way we like to do things. If you like the product, by all means, purchase it."
The government is the only group of people who are literally holding a gun to your head and saying "We know better. We know what's good for you"
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I think its kinda funny though that Steve mentioned the "proprietary control Adobe has over Flash" as a reason for not using it ... more like it takes AWAY from the proprietary control of APPLE!
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Unfortunately for Apple supporters, Rock Tripod is fairly accurate in his response. Why not allow their users to enjoy what everyone else is enjoying until a welcome alternative is mainstreamed? This is classic Apple which I have elected not to support for many years.
There are certain groups of people that need and rely on Apple products for their livelyhood. All others should realize that there is life outside of the Apple box. In fact, people with an alternate OS, seem to be living very well without Apple in their lifestyle.
There are certain groups of people that need and rely on Apple products for their livelyhood. All others should realize that there is life outside of the Apple box. In fact, people with an alternate OS, seem to be living very well without Apple in their lifestyle.
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I understand what you're saying, and the point would hit home a little more if there actually was a phone on the market with full flash support but there isn't.
Apples customers haven't been hurt by the decision not to include flash in the iPhone or in the iPad. In fact, if you want to use sales or customer reviews as a measuring stick, customers have benefited greatly from the exclusion.
Android is a great operating system, but even in the state it's in now it needs some serious hardware to run smoothly. Let's see how well it works with flash when Google releases it on one or two of the devices.
Apples customers haven't been hurt by the decision not to include flash in the iPhone or in the iPad. In fact, if you want to use sales or customer reviews as a measuring stick, customers have benefited greatly from the exclusion.
Android is a great operating system, but even in the state it's in now it needs some serious hardware to run smoothly. Let's see how well it works with flash when Google releases it on one or two of the devices.
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I know 6 individuals that own iphones. 5 of them have no clue what Apple is about or how they operate. They simply wanted an iphone because of they heard everyone seemed to be buying one.
I don't disagree with Apple's OS strength. I do however have to point out that even with Android's shortcomings, it is quickly becoming the mainstream OS standard. The average individual user does not care how great Apple is. They just want to be part of the "In" crowd.
In the Nightclub scene, People flock to certain Venues because that is where everyone goes. As soon as a new an exciting Venue opens, These crowds start to migrate to the new hangout.
The same can be said about the growing wireless industry. It's not prediction nor guessing. It is ...
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I don't disagree with Apple's OS strength. I do however have to point out that even with Android's shortcomings, it is quickly becoming the mainstream OS standard. The average individual user does not care how great Apple is. They just want to be part of the "In" crowd.
In the Nightclub scene, People flock to certain Venues because that is where everyone goes. As soon as a new an exciting Venue opens, These crowds start to migrate to the new hangout.
The same can be said about the growing wireless industry. It's not prediction nor guessing. It is ...
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justfinethanku said:
if there actually was a phone on the market with full flash support but there isn't.
doesnt the n900 have full flash support right out of the box
and just a lil add on about this whole apple/flash debate. In a society thats heavily going to the social networking world and a society who loves convienience and a society in which the iphone is popular among the masses, it would make sense to incorporate flash in an iphone/ipad because those people on facebook's farmville/superhero city (which i love lol) would be able to do it straight from their iphone/ipad from their facebook page. just a lil side note from an experience phone user
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Exactly!! Remember in 1984 when they ran that brilliant ad in the Superbowl? Down with the man, witness the violence inherent in the system! Don't just settle for what they tell you!
26 years later, and Steve Jobs is now the digital equivalent of Big Brother.
26 years later, and Steve Jobs is now the digital equivalent of Big Brother.
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I did read it.
1. 'It's not open' Really? You mean like apple? Or how Apple FINALLY allowed for low level access to their graphics card API's for third parties, FINALLY allowing flash to start hardware accelerating. No, flash isn't "open" but neither is Apple. Yes, webkit, javascript, and html5 (with the exception of the codec apple prefers) is open, but their platform, and their app development system, is not. Yes, it's all well and good that they are pushing for an open web.. but they don't want everyone going online for things. They want people getting apps from their app store instead of going to an online equivalent.
2. "full web" I agree that an increasing number of websites are adopting iphone compatible formats. But ...
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1. 'It's not open' Really? You mean like apple? Or how Apple FINALLY allowed for low level access to their graphics card API's for third parties, FINALLY allowing flash to start hardware accelerating. No, flash isn't "open" but neither is Apple. Yes, webkit, javascript, and html5 (with the exception of the codec apple prefers) is open, but their platform, and their app development system, is not. Yes, it's all well and good that they are pushing for an open web.. but they don't want everyone going online for things. They want people getting apps from their app store instead of going to an online equivalent.
2. "full web" I agree that an increasing number of websites are adopting iphone compatible formats. But ...
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1) Apple has never made any claims or hot air to be "open." But to what are you comparing Apple as to being "open" ? Not a single successful mobile platform is "write once publish everywhere." Not one. (Well actually Webkit sort of is- a little irony there.)
And didn't Apple make the initial push for web apps? Oh right, they did.
2) Flash isn't now? Really? Last I checked Flash isn't anywhere to be found on mobile devices. It isn't now. It's "coming soon!" It's only "now" on the desktop.
You're also confusing Flash with web standards. Flash is widely adopted (so was the floppy disk) .
And where do you get this mistaken idea that Flash games will magically all work with a touch screen interface? ...
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And didn't Apple make the initial push for web apps? Oh right, they did.
2) Flash isn't now? Really? Last I checked Flash isn't anywhere to be found on mobile devices. It isn't now. It's "coming soon!" It's only "now" on the desktop.
You're also confusing Flash with web standards. Flash is widely adopted (so was the floppy disk) .
And where do you get this mistaken idea that Flash games will magically all work with a touch screen interface? ...
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Why don't you extend the same to the iPhone OS or Apple for that regard?
Why is the ability to run some legacy applications getting a pass, but Apple's stance of promoting native application development "They want people getting apps from their app store instead of going to an online equivalent."
Why is H.264 video, which is accessible on more mobile devices than Flash video dismissed as the future but Flash video, which is effectively not really available at all at the moment on mobile devices championed as now?
Why are you promoting Flash's best case scenario with hardware acceleration (which is still on an unreleased version that- oh yes- isn't across the board) as superior to H.264's e...
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Why is the ability to run some legacy applications getting a pass, but Apple's stance of promoting native application development "They want people getting apps from their app store instead of going to an online equivalent."
Why is H.264 video, which is accessible on more mobile devices than Flash video dismissed as the future but Flash video, which is effectively not really available at all at the moment on mobile devices championed as now?
Why are you promoting Flash's best case scenario with hardware acceleration (which is still on an unreleased version that- oh yes- isn't across the board) as superior to H.264's e...
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It's not some legacy applications, it's basically ALL media based legacy applications.
Flash is the NOW for the web, not the mobile web specifically. And you're still making the mistake of assuming that flash is ONLY used for video content (h.264) It's not.
That's your BS. whenever someone brings up an argument against Apple's push of HTML5, you talk EXCLUSIVELY about H.264, and for everything else you say "they can write an app for the app store."
I've only had flash crash my browser ONCE and that was on my macbook, on the 10 other computers I've used it on, using three different browsers, there was no issue.
I'm not giving flash a pass, I'm saying that Steve Jobs is trying to shove his vision of the future net onto everyone ...
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Flash is the NOW for the web, not the mobile web specifically. And you're still making the mistake of assuming that flash is ONLY used for video content (h.264) It's not.
That's your BS. whenever someone brings up an argument against Apple's push of HTML5, you talk EXCLUSIVELY about H.264, and for everything else you say "they can write an app for the app store."
I've only had flash crash my browser ONCE and that was on my macbook, on the 10 other computers I've used it on, using three different browsers, there was no issue.
I'm not giving flash a pass, I'm saying that Steve Jobs is trying to shove his vision of the future net onto everyone ...
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What "transition" period? Flash may be ubiquitous for the desktop but it's not at all present on mobile environments. It doesn't really exist yet. Period.
And that's exactly right- anything that can't be accomplished with HTML5 is likely better off as a native application. Html5 for content and applications, more advanced functionality for native application environments (things where Flash would simply act as a wrapper.)
You may also not think Flash crashes much- statistics say otherwise.
And that's exactly right- anything that can't be accomplished with HTML5 is likely better off as a native application. Html5 for content and applications, more advanced functionality for native application environments (things where Flash would simply act as a wrapper.)
You may also not think Flash crashes much- statistics say otherwise.
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So you're saying that developers should have to recode their websites, both for mobile and then for their Desktop standards (they have to re code for desktop anyway.. but HTML5 is not a viable option because of firefox) How does this help developers at all?
The Transition period is for desktops, and for the increasing number of developers who care about mobile development now (it's not just news sites and blogs anymore) With the increasing number of mobile browsers, content providers, like game sites are looking into creating mobile versions. Right now it is a choice of: Hire a whole bunch of programmers to totally rewrite their games from the ground up for each mobile platform (at the very least for apple since they don't allow cross ...
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The Transition period is for desktops, and for the increasing number of developers who care about mobile development now (it's not just news sites and blogs anymore) With the increasing number of mobile browsers, content providers, like game sites are looking into creating mobile versions. Right now it is a choice of: Hire a whole bunch of programmers to totally rewrite their games from the ground up for each mobile platform (at the very least for apple since they don't allow cross ...
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and now I wait for bluecoyote's well thought out argument that amounts to "Nyah, nyah, nyah, I'm not listening to you."
Coyote, it seems like you are somehow trying to argue that the future of the mobile web should dictate the experience of the web on a desktop. Its really vice versa right now. Mobile web is trying to catch up to the desktop experience. I agree that mobile is the future, but I disagree that its demands should dictate the entire web. Call it a philosophical difference. Let mobile web get more robust, and everyone's on a level playing field. Better for all. Or you could just hate on Android and Flash some more. Or better yet, you can go sing Apple's praises in another forum. Away from here. You won't find many minds...
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Coyote, it seems like you are somehow trying to argue that the future of the mobile web should dictate the experience of the web on a desktop. Its really vice versa right now. Mobile web is trying to catch up to the desktop experience. I agree that mobile is the future, but I disagree that its demands should dictate the entire web. Call it a philosophical difference. Let mobile web get more robust, and everyone's on a level playing field. Better for all. Or you could just hate on Android and Flash some more. Or better yet, you can go sing Apple's praises in another forum. Away from here. You won't find many minds...
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When I purchased my Home Theater system years ago, I wanted a Marantz Receiver. The problem I had was, they didn't know if the standard was going to be DTS or Dolby Digital. I chose one that accepted both. So I need to side with your point of allowing transition.
Another example was Beta Vs VHS. Beta was much better, but what became the world standard?
Steve Jobs may have valid points but they become negated when depriving their customers what the rest of us are enjoying.
Another example was Beta Vs VHS. Beta was much better, but what became the world standard?
Steve Jobs may have valid points but they become negated when depriving their customers what the rest of us are enjoying.
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I don't really understand though, and don't think I'm here to start a war, but what transition???
There are NO mobile devices on the market with flash right now, so a transition from not having flash to, well, not having flash would be pretty simple.
For a platform with no flash support to add flash and then evolve away from flash to the new standards seems a little back-asswords if you ask me...
I think Jobs has a valid point here. In fact, I think he has 6 valid points.
There are NO mobile devices on the market with flash right now, so a transition from not having flash to, well, not having flash would be pretty simple.
For a platform with no flash support to add flash and then evolve away from flash to the new standards seems a little back-asswords if you ask me...
I think Jobs has a valid point here. In fact, I think he has 6 valid points.
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up until VERY recently, the only "mobile" sites you could find were news sites and the odd blog or two.
Now more sites, entertainment, gaming, etc. want to move to the mobile field and HTML5 CANNOT handle everything that they require.
So the companies have two choices:
1: Spend tens of thousands of dollars developing specialized apps for every major platform, supporting several teams of programmers and trying to keep everything standard across devices.
2: "wait it out" and have their web traffic dry up as more people switch to browsing from their phone/tablets like the ipad. Not every developer knows how to program in xcode or for android, so the barrier to entry is A LOT higher.
Allowing flash for mobile devices would provide ...
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Now more sites, entertainment, gaming, etc. want to move to the mobile field and HTML5 CANNOT handle everything that they require.
So the companies have two choices:
1: Spend tens of thousands of dollars developing specialized apps for every major platform, supporting several teams of programmers and trying to keep everything standard across devices.
2: "wait it out" and have their web traffic dry up as more people switch to browsing from their phone/tablets like the ipad. Not every developer knows how to program in xcode or for android, so the barrier to entry is A LOT higher.
Allowing flash for mobile devices would provide ...
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Flash isn't screaming "we're open! now pay us $100 a year and jump through hoops to get your stuff running on our device." either. Yes, they support open web standards, but a lot of their talking points against adobe go back to their App store, which isn't. Flash is more than streaming video.
Blackberry storm os was the blackberry os with a few extra lines of code. Blackberry OS 6.0 is the first one actually designed with touchscreens in mind.
Flash isn't perfect, But it never claimed to be. But it is still the current adopted technology. with every adoption period, there is a transition phase. Steve Jobs is trying to ignore that.
You mention floppy's. when CD's came out, how many (useful) computers shipped with JUST the ...
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Blackberry storm os was the blackberry os with a few extra lines of code. Blackberry OS 6.0 is the first one actually designed with touchscreens in mind.
Flash isn't perfect, But it never claimed to be. But it is still the current adopted technology. with every adoption period, there is a transition phase. Steve Jobs is trying to ignore that.
You mention floppy's. when CD's came out, how many (useful) computers shipped with JUST the ...
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I mention floppies because at the time (199😎 Apple dropped floppy disks from their computers altogether starting with the iMac and pushed USB and ethernet networking cold turkey. People said the same thing then that they are saying now- that Apple was money grubbing and should've eased the transition. They were wrong- it moved the Apple ecosystem years ahead of the rest of the industry. Hell, HP was bundling serial mice with their computers 5 years later.
That's Apple's competitive advantage. That's also why Apple wants native application development. . Because although both may be closed and proprietary (that's actually not the case anyway) , one is integrated into the OS, the other isn't. It's that simple.
Now, wha...
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That's Apple's competitive advantage. That's also why Apple wants native application development. . Because although both may be closed and proprietary (that's actually not the case anyway) , one is integrated into the OS, the other isn't. It's that simple.
Now, wha...
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And your argument is still rendered null and void because people WANT FLASH!!! No matter how technically superior HTML5 will be, people want Flash now. Who is Apple to say no? So prattle on about how right Steve Jobs is. I will be enjoying Flash video on my Android phone, or on my Blackberry, or on my WinMo device, and when HTML5 is adopted, I'll have that too. Explain to me how that's bad for me? Cuz really, that's what it comes down to. I am the consumer. I should be the one to decide how to use my device. And I guarantee I am in the majority when I say, "I want Flash support!!"
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"Who is Apple to say no?"
The people who designed the phone.... they kind of have control of their product right?
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Biggest & easiest solution to this argument ... IF YOU WANT FLASH, DONT BUY AN IPHONE! Easy! Thats what a competative market is all about, you dont like what one can do, go to the compitition. Whats better? As proven here, that totally depends on YOUR needs and your choice of device should be based on research to ensure you got what YOU need ... not what he needs, or I need but what YOU need! And if you think you can do better, go design a phone ... then ppl here can talk about how how stupid you are for making the decisions you made regarding your device. OR we can just look at whats out there and pick the best phone for you and be happy with it!
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I read Engadgets little speech this morning and still agree with every point that was made by Jobs.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Engadget. I have their app on my iPhone, you know, the one that is easier to use than the actual website.... 😛
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Engadget. I have their app on my iPhone, you know, the one that is easier to use than the actual website.... 😛
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pretty sure their website is intentionally a stress test for browsers. But hey... they finally fixed the force close issue on the android app, so I can't complain
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Haha, yeah. I just put the Engadget app on my cliq (it's my employee line, don't blame me!) and it seems to be pretty decent. My girl won't let me install my "geek" apps on her stupid droid. 😡
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