FCC Not Satisfied with Verizon's ETF Explanation
I work for VZW, here's how I see it
However, I see absolutely no problem with the ETF increase. Consider these points:
1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.
2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been stated in previous threads, the man...
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VZW will make hand over fist with the DATA that is MANDOTARY for the device. It's not a huge hit for VZW cause they work closely with motorola for rebates etc.. Behind the scenes. Now if you offer the DROID with data optional because it "DOES" campaign should allow it to be but nope, data must be forced on. The ETF is just...
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By not providing that information, it makes your posts completely useless, worthless, etc. So if he is in fact misinformed, take the time to explain how.
By not providing that information, it makes your posts completely useless, worthless, etc. So if he is in fact misinformed, take the time to explain how."
ROFL like the way info411 provided facts and analysis for his post???? i didn't know unverifiable heresay was hard evidence on the int3rnetz
Besides you have to admit someone who says "You are incredibly misinformed" and doesn't provide any other information, whether subjective or objective, to back it up is completely pointless.
info411 said:
Also, VZW treat their employees like crap. Sure they entice you with great health benefits and etc.. But if you take a break for even a minute BAM you are on watch and diciplinary actions occurs, how I know this? Cause I talk to alot of people that work there at the bars and on the streets. Also those health benefits are there because they end up having health issues from panic attacks and even death.
??
Breaks are required. My breaks often ran over the standard 15 minutes. When I was in customer care, my adherence (amount of time I adhered to my schedule) was always 95% or higher. I've never been on disciplinary action.
The job is what you make of it. I don't work for companies that ...
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On to the termination fee, if the data plan was optional then it 350 termination fee applies to phones like the touch, chocolate touch rogue, and maybe even the env3, would make sense. But you are required to have the data plan so vzw should suck up the cost. Also it was vzw choice to do a bogo offer on bberry and netbooks (people would buy a bberry and get a netbook free then ...
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Do you not work in a state with labor laws which dictate that you are required to take certain breaks?
Also, Im not sure if VZW does, but many companies use those anonymous tip lines, which if available, would be a way to try and voice his issues.
And if HR wont respond, or if he feels that going to HR may lead to retaliation, then going to the State board is a viable option.
If he did report it and they can verify that whats happening there is against the law, that manager will be the one promoted to customer, as I'm sure VZW doesnt want to be dealing with the large amount of fines and bad press it would bring.
1) The first video was a news store about stressful jobs and how customer service jobs are stressful. Wow, really? Just because a news center used a local call center as an example of a stressful job does not make one call center/company worse than another. Also, if you truly are feeling so stressed that you are afraid you will drop dead at your desk then you need to address that within your own life choices and/or with your doctor. I know the economy is bad and jobs are hard to find but if you can't deal with the stress then you are free to leave that job.
2) A union video? Really? Half of the people in that video were from Verizon Landline and it was from 2004. As mentioned before,...
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That isnt even counting the overwhelming amount of stories I have heard from customers about miss information being given, almost makes me want to recommend people call wal-mart instead for their customer service needs(only kidding.)
However seriously, to claim that they spend so much money and time on training is a joke, I have had conversations with ...
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You're only aware of what you perceive so, of course, your perception is that these phone agents do not have training but do you really think VZW VPs are going to stick thousands of people on the phones without teaching them anything?
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qcjl84 said:...
First off, I completely agree regarding the $1.99/MB charges. While many of them are valid, more often than not they seem shady. When I worked in customer care I almost always credited them back.
However, I see absolutely no problem with the ETF increase. Consider these points:
1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.
2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been st
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If you can get cheaper someplace else go get it.
I'm not arguing for or against the etf. I'm just saying that their claim of losses with late term cancellations doesn't make sense.
tbacba said:
ETF's are associated with contracts. What normal customer stops after 2 years with a carrier and says "Oops, time to go to a monthly plan"? I purchased my own phone, no subsidy, and was already halfway through my second 2 year contract with Verizon when I decided to cancel. They STILL hit me with an ETF fee! I tried reasoning with the highest level CS rep I could talk to about how I had bought my own phone, length of service, etc. Her sorry response was "Sorry, nothing I can do, it's a legal document". So I did something instead, I switched to Sprint and will never, ever go back to a company so blood sucking greedy as Verizon. Whew, I feel better now! 😛
The rep was right. You did sig...
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No one maintains that practice anymore (of the top 4 carriers).
qcjl84 said:
1. The ETF is completely optional. 100% not required. If you bring in your own phone or purchase one from us, you can activate month-to-month on postpaid pricing and won't EVER have to worry about paying a single dollar towards canceling early.
How do the postpaid mtm prices compare to the standard plans? I can't find that information anywhere on verizon's site, or even that it exists at all.
I think the MtM plans should be less than the contract plans since they don't subsidize the phone.
WHY should it be cheaper?? I would argue that it should be MORE expensive, to get the most money they can out of you, since you can up and leave at any time you feel like it.
When a carrier, any carrier, purchases phones in bulk from a manufacturer the carrier gets a discount or subsidy on the per-unit price. The "full retail" price asked by the carrier is higher than what they paid of course, but not as much as the MSRP from the OEM (if there is one) if you were to/could buy from them directly. The Droid, and other carrier exclusives in general, are a special case in that the OEM doesn't really list an MSRP since you can't get the phone directly from them. You can believe that the Droid would cost you anywhere from $100-$200 more than the "full retail" price from the carrier if Motorola were to sell it unlocked/unbranded. So for those of you who gripe about pa...
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On top of that your company also does outsource its telephone help. Because I have called for billing and tech support before and the gentleman who I was talking with was defiently from India.
To my knowledge VZW has not outsourced its CS and Ive been with the company for almost 10 years.
Oh and on the accessory mark up...what company DOSENT mark up its accessories. Walmart does it...so does Radio Shack and Best Buy. Unless your a dealer and buy in bulk to get things at cost or close to cost good luck finding cheap items in a retail store of any kind..(unless its on clearance)
mrpmpfan said:
They make mad bank on the crappy accessories they sell in the store. They sell cheap horrible bluetooth headsets for $30, and crappy generic cases for $25. Believe you and me those accessories that your wonderful company sells does not cost them more than a buck or two.
On top of that your company also does outsource its telephone help. Because I have called for billing and tech support before and the gentleman who I was talking with was defiently from India.
1. Yes, we do make bank on accessories. And people willingly pay for them. If they don't like the prices we offer, accessories are a dime a dozen on eBay. I know because I've purchased plenty of accessories from eBay myself.
2....
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2. Yes VZW DOES outsource their customer service, not to india, but a company called LiveBridge.. They get training but not completely its like the indirect of VZW. Sometimes they don't know what their doing, and sometimes they screw up accounts. Next time you call Customer Service asked them if they are LiveBridge or not.
info411 said:
2. Yes VZW DOES outsource their customer service, not to india, but a company called LiveBridge.. They get training but not completely its like the indirect of VZW. Sometimes they don't know what their doing, and sometimes they screw up accounts. Next time you call Customer Service asked them if they are LiveBridge or not.
The question was not if they outsource at all, it was if they outsource to another country, which they do NOT. But you are correct, the likelyhood of them screwing something up is alot higher than with corporate reps.
Yes we make money off accessories but guess what? You don't have to buy them if you don't want. Part of what you are paying for is the ability to go back to 1 location anytime in the first year and they will fix it for you or replace it if needed. Would you go back to Dell and tell them that their 60.00 for a 2 GB memory upgrade is too much?
Lastly, you didn't talk to someone from Verizon outside the cou...
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And yes, they could be making 20+ profit per accessory, but lets say they sold 1000 accesories in a month (in a store). That is 20,000 profit. pretty sweet, except when you figure out it pales in comparison to how much they make on phone contracts.
that 20,000 comes nowhere close to covering costs for a store that does that much volume (at my old store I sold maybe 300 and 20k just covered expenses, and this is for a retailer store, not corp)
An average contracts netted a retailer about 120 or so (less with more upgrades, more if we had a lot of port ins) The typical take rate on accessories seems to be between 1.5 and 2.0. Lets say 2.00, so for 1000 accessories, you would ha...
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Allow me to elaborate…
While yes the ETF is explained in the terms and conditions of service and a customer is knowingly agreeing to them thus they are bound those T&C’s…period (at least legally).
However to me this seems like the cell phone equivalent of a balloon mortgage. You are luring new customers with too good to be true upfront discounts off of equipment and bounding them by stiff T&C's, which in many cases may be beyond the customer's means, causing them to later pay dearly.
Again I fully acknowledge the roll of customer responsibility...
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Yes, our offers are really good. But all we're asking is that you stay with us for 2 years. You don't pay a penny of an ETF if you just uphold your end of the deal and stick with us for as long as you said. Mortgages, on the other hand, are typically a 15 to 30 year commitment and if you've got a variable APR (which many victims of the mortgage crisis did), then you're at the mercy of whoever your bank has sold the mortgage to for the umpteenth time.
As you state, you acknowledge the role of the customer's responsibility. I'm not going to dispute whether or not us raising the ETF is ethical, per se, because that's a thread unto itself, but it makes business sense. You'...
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When talking about advanced devices purchased at full retail price it is a fairly large sum of money involved. Enough to where if you were to walk into an electronics store and finance something of the same value a credit check would be performed and the consumer would be approved or denied based on the result.
VZW is offering the same deal to their $0 deposit customers as their credit challenged ones, ones which have likely never been able to afford a Smart phone and the service required on it previously, so when they see buy one get one smart phones for next to nothing they jump at the chance without fully comprehending...
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If you cant afford to buy it flat out, and you aren't willing to agree to the financing terms to buy it...GET SOMETHING ELSE.
This is that BS entitlement attitude which pervades America. The simple fact is, if you can't afford it, you dont need it. The story would be different if it was a necessity, like food, utilities, water, etc. But we're talking about fancy cellphones. Nobody needs one. They just make things more convenient at times.
Basically it’s offering a customer a deal which looks amazing but should an unforeseen circumstance arise later in the agreement that customer is left in over their head. Almost like financing a something to someone who does not meet the basic criteria which a responsible finance company would require.
Does is the customer still to blame for this absolutely, as you all stated they agreed to it.
However the concept is as I see it is bad business ethics, legal so far, yes, but its things like that which must regulated. Which I believe in the end it will be regulated via the FCC or Class Action, it wil...
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For example: On any given day, I know to within 5 bucks what my checking account has, and if I want to spend a lot of money, I'll check out my invested funds to see whats there. That way, I know that if im applying for a credit card to buy a $7k home theater, I'll be able to keep up the payments should I lose my job/become disabled/be attacked by hippos. That's me being responsible for myself. If I thought that should something bad happen, I'd b...
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Azeron said:
don't sign up with Verizon in the first place.
I completely agree... but I'm not sure this is what VZW had in mind when they were hoping the fanboys would defend their decisions... "Choose someone else". You can bet people will.
If you feel that you may not have the means to pay the $350 later should the need arise, then go with a non advanced device (lower ETF) or a different carrier.
qcjl84 said:
2. I'll also confirm what's been said several times: we pay close to full retail for each phone. Yes, there is SOME markup on the full retail price, but very very little. As has been stated in previous threads, the manufacturers have to make money somewhere, and since they don't sell the service, they sell the phones at a higher price. I worked for T-Mobile in the past in the sales channel and it was the exact same thing there, too.
Ok... so it cracks me up that Call Center CSR's think they know the financial goings ons of the company they work for."We pay almost full retail for those phones"... Not likely. Carriers in the US would all be extinct if that was the case. I have worked for...
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Azeron said:
Verizon doesn't have ETFs to make money. They have them to keep customers. Perhaps the fact that they lie about what the ETFs are for is a subject we should discuss, but to state that the purpose of an ETF is to make money is ridiculous.
I think that is the very argument the FCC is making here. VZW is trying to use the ETF charge to make money... I agree that it is ridiculous. They shouldn't be allowed to charge outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what the other carriers are charging.
CamelTowing said:
I think that is the very argument the FCC is making here. VZW is trying to use the ETF charge to make money... I agree that it is ridiculous. They shouldn't be allowed to charge outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what the other carriers are charging.
They are a private business that provide a 100% optional service. They should absolutely be allowed to charge "outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what other carriers are." They should also be allowed to charge outlandishly low fees if they want to. The fact is, nobody is forcing you to be their customer, or to sign a contract with them that would bind you to that ETF. If you dont like their policies, take your bu...
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bp3dots1 said:
They are a private business that provide a 100% optional service. They should absolutely be allowed to charge "outlandish fees that are disproportionate with what other carriers are." They should also be allowed to charge outlandishly low fees if they want to. The fact is, nobody is forcing you to be their customer, or to sign a contract with them that would bind you to that ETF. If you dont like their policies, take your business elsewhere.
The FCC needs to find something else to do with their time and our dollars.
They are actually a publicly traded company. Noboday has forced me into anything. I haven't been a customer of theirs for years now. As you may have noticed, despite the ...
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But thanks for playing 🙂
bp3dots1 said:
Actually I cant stand VZW. So yes, I would defend any carrier who had the idea first. You may notice I've never said anything about VZW being all that good. I've merely defended their right, as a business, to price their products and services how they please.
But thanks for playing 🙂
So you don't really care what company screws who...
Thanks for playing
I don't care what companies do with their policies AS LONG AS I HAVE THE CHOICE TO GO WITH WHOEVER I WANT. I do, however, care that the government feels the need to investigate a pricing policy like this. It's a waste of time.
In a smaller scale, (maybe you'll understand better) I also dont care if little Timmy sells lemonade from a stand for $5 and his neighbor, Johnny, sells it for $.25. Because If I want the lemonade I can choose whomever's stand I please.
(Or do you think the city should force Timmy to lower his price because he's screwing the customer?)
I agree that we have ...
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Slammer said:...
The point being ignored here is the fact that almost 30 percent of all wireless customers in general are discouraged or dissatisfied with how all carriers are handling issues. All proper channels through carrier customer service ports have been exhausted and subs are now turning to the government for answers. When the private sector does not play well with the public sector, the courtship erodes leading to government intervention. The government cannot ignore complaints of this magnatude. In short, one should never bite the hand that feeds them. I believe we haven't seen anything yet. I feel that the more carriers try to swindle the subscribers of a heavily saturated market, the more we are going to see big
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This forum is closed.