Rumor Mill

You people need to learn about Higher Technology, b/c you have no idea of what you are talking about. If Verizon ever went GSM, they would definetely be giving themselves a severe system downgrade. The reason AT&T and Cingular jumped on the GSM bandwagon was b/c they were hurting in the finanacial side and GSM was cheapr to maintain. Get your facts straight! Bunch of Non-Cellular following wannabe fools!

To Sanchezkk,

does that mean that carriers in Asia who have all since moved on to GSM because they are suffering financially?
TheBoots

😳 Just read the articles that I left links for on my other posts. 🙄

GSM a down grade??? 🤣 Are you kidding me? Version needs to get with the times. They have slower internet VS. Cingular, Cingular has better phones and is just a better provider. With better service and a bigger network. Face it CDMA is a dieing breed and Verizon is going down with it. Thats not from a web site thats from personal experance, Thanks. Not only mine but my customers also.

Waita second... Now I'm not all into the phones that much. I work for bestbuy, I know a lot of stuff probably more then some people that work at cingular, verizon, or sprint dealerships... But here is my question.. You said that "They have slower internet VS. Cingular... Last time I checked cingular doesn't have high speed cards that go from 400 to 700kbs a second... I could be wrong but I think that means verizon is faster... Also if you take the top end phone of verizon, which say is the new Motorola E815, and the top end phone of Cingular, I guess the over hyped Razr, or the very good, Audiovox 5600... I know for a fact that you can get through the internet on the phone faster with the Verizon phone... Hmmm... Go figure!!! Then hmmm bigge...
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😁 That was really funny BRK.. you tell emm..

GSM is based on TDMA technology that is why Cingular/ATTWS made the switch to it.

I've been selling cell phones where I work since March and from all the knowledge I've gained since then... well... it would only make sense that Verizion and Sprint as well would switch to GSM. GSM technology carriers give their customers the opportunity to take their phone to over 130 countries and still keep their same phone and phone # at low cost. So why wouldn't other carriers want to go in the same direction?

Also you can't just "look" at the map to judge who has the best or largest network. Sprint and Verzion work off of cdma and analog (which is about to be depleted soon because it's old technology) where as T-Mobile and Cingular have all GSM digital technology. Sprint has the largest network when u combine the Sprint PCS network...
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I've worked for a Cingular agent for almost 7 years. Every customer that has come into my store has a complaint about their OSP. I personally have not tried service with these other carriers besides AT&T and I personally think their GSM service wasn't near as clear as Cingular's.

Verizon isn't offered in my market. We just have Sprint and now US Cellular. But it is hard to get coverage for PCS or CDMA when the market is saturated with GSM technology!

I agree and disagree with you. You are correct, everybody likes who they like and that's that. These forum wars are kinda dumb, but entertaining reading sometimes. Here is where I disagree -- CDMA clients like me are being left behind. The GSM boys are getting the high tech, high feature, phones that's just a fact of life. Everybody talks about how hot the RAZR is because in the CDMA world, we are just now a year or so after it came out, getting handsets with features that are close to matching it. Add to that Moto announces The next RAZR with not one, but two cameras, stereo Bluetooth, support of AAC+, MPEG4, WMV, WMA, MP3 and Real Video/Audio files, the list goes on and on. A year or so from now we'll see something like this, and the GSM ...
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not the razr thats the v1150 or something like that.... god man u guys r sum stupid dumb dumbs.....theres gonna be another new razr coming out soon but its not the v1150

Badibada said:
not the razr thats the v1150 or something like that.... god man u guys r sum stupid dumb dumbs.....theres gonna be another new razr coming out soon but its not the v1150

OK, lemme see if I can decode that. The V3x announced the other day is the RAZR replacement. it is what used to be called the v1150 - It uses WCDMA, has two cameras, Bluetooth, you know the rest. MOTO says it should be out Q4 this year. The CDMA RAZR (which has been announced but isn't available yet) improves on the camera from the GSM RAZR but basically has the same look, feel, as the handset sold for over a year. It's anybody's guess if it will have all the features or be "crippled". Don't look for Sprint to be selling th...
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When is Verizon supposed to release the RAZR?

not the razr thats the v1150 or something like that.... god man u guys r sum stupid dumb dumbs.....theres gonna be another new razr coming out soon but its not the v1150

HAHAHA... this is the funniest thing I have ever seen on here. Good man this guy is one stupid dumb dumb! Killer

Well said, you speak the truth

First of all your quote "Now I'm not all into the phones that much" shows right there you don't know crap about what you're talking about. You may be right about Verizon being able to offer air cards with those download speeds, but its not across their entire network. It is mearly a trial. Cingular is doing the same thing in select cities. And I directly work for a provider, so, I would know.

Thank you, Thank you. Well said 😁 Aren't you tired of idiots

carriers in Asia have actually graduated to a system above and beyond gsm serv, called UMTS, both of which are superior to the CDMA technology

That is not true! You don't know what you are talking about. GSM ( global standard for mobile telecommunication service) is a great service. It has nothing to do with money. Look around, GSM is the technology that is used all over the world. CDMA is not. You think AT&T is hurting for money? Get real

mmdstech2, who are you addessing your reply to?

It is cheaper to maintain a GSM system, and handsets are better because less testing is required. Overseas carriers are getting ready to switch to CDMA because they are running out of spectrum. CDMA offers clearer calls, greater speed and capacity than GSM.

You are so stupid. Yes yes yes, I am insulting your intelligence. YOU need to get your facts straight. GSM has the highest voice Clarita and faster data speeds than CDMA ever though about. Now, WCDMA which is NOT CDMA is better and faster than CDMA. Pull your head out and get your facts straight. 😈

Hmmm- let's see here. If GSM is the inferior technology, then why do 75% of the wireless users in the world use GSM? Also, GSM has been around since the early 90's, so it's a proven technology, unlike CDMA, which has only been around for a few years. GSM has never been cloned in a real world situation, CDMA has. The reason why Cingular went with GSM, was because the Carolinas, California, and others were already GSM, so from that standpoint, you are correct, it was cheaper. I could go on, but I think you see my point.

First of all CDMA has been used since about World war One or Two by the government as a form of encripting transmitions. Second the reason why 75% of the world uses it is because it is the only technology the EU Reglitory committee (what the EU calls their version of the FCC i don't know) will allow them. The only reason this is the only one allowed is because it came out first and the EU needed something right away that had more capasity than the regular AMPS. The problem with GSM is that it is a Dead end technology. There is no upgrade passed EDGE so they have to start a whole new technology called UMTS(WCDMA) which they need new bandwith for.

CDMA was theorized in WWII, but not put into place until later. And the Military uses various forms of spread-spectrum, not just CDMA. Yeah, the other guy was wrong when he said CDMA has only been around a few years. IS-95 started in the early 90's as I recall. GSM started because each country in Europe had a different analog standard, so French cell phones didn't work in Italy or Germany. They came up with a new digital standard and all of Europe signed up. Had to. GSM is a bit cheaper for equipment (economies of scale), but you end up buying more cell sites and such for capacity. Have to buy completely new radios when you move to UMTS. Probably lots of other cell tower equipment as well. UMTS calls for 5 MHz of space, plus a guar...
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bulldude said:
Oh, by the way, EV-DO uses tdma, very similar to GSM. Just so's you know.

ummmm....... evdo for the most part is sw upgrade to cdma 2000. it has nothing to do with TDMA. TDMA is a hugely innefficiant way to transmit data. tdma along with gsm and iden derivaties are all at a dead end.

Wrong. EV-DO uses tdma on the forward link. Look it up. I think you might find something on Qualcomm, cdmaonline.com, or maybe even here. It uses cdma for the reverse link (the phone to the tower), but for the forward link (the tower to the phone) it uses tdma. While not your father's version of tdma (is-54, is-136, or GSM), it's still Time Division Multiplexing. I know, it doesn't make sense, but it's the way it works. If you work for a carrier, ask someone in network engineering about it. UMTS and HSPDA are very similar to EV-DO in this regard. Well, closer to EV-DV actually. But still, cdma on the reverse link, tdma on the forward link. EV-DV, UMTS, and HSPDA, as far as I understand, use cdma for the voice forward and reverse l...
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Verizon is offering GSM b/c of the amount of users that want to use the technology for nations outside of the US. CDMA is much more "secure" in terms of not being able to tap into conversations as well as much better at reception quality than GSM. Verizon is not going to offer GSM only phones. It will be a phone with both CDMA and GSM technology that way it will get the best of both worlds.

before att and cingular merged att wireless had what they called "gait" phones offering both tdma and gsm service- they made alot of people happy- only thing is, there isn't a large selection, and they are more expensive so they didn't remain on the market longer. I'm not sure though if it'll be the same w/ verizon. just thought id say my input.

Cingular also had gait phones years ago. As for CDMA being more clear that is funny to me. I hade CDMA service for years and went to cingular and I am 10 x's more happy. GSM is more clear and clean saves battery life and gsm carriers have better phones.

You are incorrect about security. GSM has never been cloned. CDMA was cloned as soon as it came out. GSM has been about for about 15 years now- NEVER BEEN CLONED!

getgsm said:
You are incorrect about security. GSM has never been cloned. CDMA was cloned as soon as it came out. GSM has been about for about 15 years now- NEVER BEEN CLONED!

i know people who know hot to clone and have cloned gsm phones before.

never say never. if it can be built by a person another person can always figure out how to build it to.

I'm glad that someone will finally admit that it can and has been done. I myself have been looking for a way that "average Joe" would be able to tell if his phone has been cloned, and if it were what to do to fix it. If anyone can help let me know and ill give more specifics on the version, h/w, and s/w. Thanks

That is wrong. As far as i have heard a CDMA signal has never been cloned (at least i have never heard of it being cloned) what people do us take advanage of the fact that CDMA phone almost always use AMPS and AMPS can be cloned quite easly. What people do is find the ESN number and use the AMPS tower. It's not CDMA that isn't secure it's AMPS that isn't secure.

you have to give that poor guy a break i mean he is obviously ignorant. i am sure he believes what ever the manager of his mall keyosk tells him

Huh? 😕

It's simply that Verizon wants to offer a "world phone" - a single phone that can be used on the Verizon Wireless CDMA network domestically, and will also work overseas.

Most countries - especially in Europe - do not have CDMA networks, so a CDMA/GSM phone is the only way to accomplish that. The only alternative would be to launch their own CDMA networks worldwide, which - even if the licenses were available to do that (they're not) - would be prohibitively expensive.

This isn't about "admitting the global force" or the "inferiority" of any technology over another. This is simply the only sensible way for Verizon to offer a world phone.

You dummies, look at these links and tell me who is superior. Why would China decide on going CDMA if GSM is so cutting edge?

http://www.cdg.org/news/search/2002/10/in dustry/102102%5Find%5Fa.html



http://www.3g.co.uk/3GHomeSearch.htm



http://www.cellular-news.com/search/index .php?term=Unicom&search.x=43&search.y=23

It's money. China is developing its own hybrid....they do not want to play royalties....

CDM2000 1X 😳

It's kills me to read these types of discussions 🤣

Remember, "arguing on the Internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win you're still retarded"

You are so right..it kills me to read these arguments over cell phone companies...like they give a rats ass about any of us...make a late payment & see how much loyalty they feel toward you.

Well if you paid your bill we would show you loyality. Don't make your car payment they will take your car, don't pay your cable they will turn it off. Don't give me that crap about making a late payment and loyalu=ity.

Verizon is much superior to the other companies i must say....which is y verizon wins almost every award given out for cell companies on signal, reception, dropped/missed calls, clarity, ect.....I must say that gsm is a foreign technology so yes if people want to use their verizon phone overseas they hav no choice but to use gsm phones but with verizon phones overseas they make a phone to pick up all the technologies so the customer can get cdma and gsm for more coverage overseas.....gsm was made by a forign company which is only used in these foreign areas think about what u say

GSM was first used overseas, but it's used stateside now as well so I wouldn't call it foreign. Technically, that CDMA/GSM phone that Verizon offers could use GSM stateside as well, which is a pretty good feature. The best part about that is Verizon wouldn't put a SIM lock on the phone since they don't use SIM cards themselves. You could probably use that phone stateside with two different numbers on two different networks to pick up the advantages both have to offer.

How much coverage area will Verizon lose after analog goes away?

verizon will not lose any coverage is being converted to digital the coverage will not be lost at all just because they are getting rid of analog doesnt mean they will lose coverage it means that analog signal will turn into digital it will only grow not diminish

GSM is used in EU because it is the only the goverment will let them use. There are alot of companys that were trying to pressure the agency that governs air waves (what ever EU's equivalent of the FCC is) to be able to us CDMA but the EU wanted on universal system and TDMA came out first so they chose that. No other reason.

GSM/EDGE is not stable. To say that spectrum doesn't effect the customer is a fallacy as well, as code division offers much more capacity (i.e. less dropped calls, static, fading, and overall better reception) than the GSM system.

1XRTT and EV-DO are extremely stable systems, I know this from first hand experience for this simple reason: it's a natural progression. If GSM is such a fantastic platform, then why does it have to be converted to CDMA to reach 3G status? (GSM will mutate into CDMA2000 in order to reach comparable speeds to 3XRTT, and notice I say comparable: 3xrtt will still top it).

Sorry to say it, but its true: GSM is not the most advanced platform, and in the coming years it will fade away as TDMA is now fading away.

Well said... I was considering chiming in on this one, but it seems you have said all there is to be said. With all the carriers progressing on to WCDMA, GSM must hop to EDGE before jumping over to WCDMA. CDMA makes one small hop to the homeland. 🤣

Not exactly. Only GSM carriers are moving to WCDMA, and not all of them - yet.

CDMA carriers aren't going anywhere near WCDMA - they're moving to CDMA 2000 1xEV-DO and 1xEV-DV - very different technologies.

And EDGE isn't a requirement for moving to WCDMA. In fact, it's more like an alternative to WCDMA.

The original plan was for Europe to jump straight from GSM to WCDMA, with new 3G spectrum set aside for it.

In the U.S., everyone knew new spectrum would take forever, so they needed an interim solution to speed up GPRS. That's EDGE - it's not a whole new technology, it's more like an optimization that increases GPRS speeds 2-3 times.

But somewhere along the way, WCDMA proved way more difficult and expensive than anticipated. ...
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Not only was it more expensive than they thought DoMoCo in Japan was having alot of problems with their WCDMA and so the EU companys couldn't get any equipment for their towers. So they had a bunch of empty towers while they were spending money on the licenses. I know a few companys tried to get the government to alow them to switch to CDMA licenses but those were no go. The EU wants to have on universial system for cell phones.

Ok,

First of all I would like to state that everyone here is very confused!!!

Let me try to clear things up so that we can all use the same terminology. GSM runs on top of TDMA, just like TCP runs on top of IP. So what you are comparing is a level 4 protocol (GSM) to a level 3 protocol like CDMA. The level 4 protocol that Verizon and Sprint PCS have is called IS-95 which runs on top of CDMA. So if you want to compare two technologies/protocols please compare IS-95 to GSM, not CDMA to GSM!!! GSM runs on TDMA!

You are correct in stating that CDMA is more spectrally efficent than TDMA (and even FDMA). CDMA is the best RF technology out.

However, looking at the higher layer protocol, GSM is far far superior to IS-95. Take a ...
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Please don't compare anyones text messaging with Sprint! Everyone Knows Sprint does not have any "REAL" text messaging. it is all web based. If you are going to compare a GSM carrier's TXT messaging with a CDMA carrier, compare it with Verizon. Verizon's TXT messaging is just as good, if not better than T-mobile's, IMO they are all the same except for Sprint's lously WAP based Txt messaging

As a Sprint user I 100% agree..their text messaging sucks! I send messages via computer to phones...it doesn't use your minutes.

Ain't that the truth!! Sprints text messages sometimes take ove 24 hours to deliver!! The issue could be dead by that time! I often suffered this problem until I subscribed for service at www.Dictomail.com online. Since th3en I don't have any problems sending or receiving messages on my cellphone. I even have my incoming voice-mails converted to text so I won't miss any important messages while I am in meetings! It's simply wonderful!!!!

My sms text messageing on my Sprint PCS phone works great.

Thank you! 😉 It's always nice to see someone informed on the technology contributing.

I would add a few small clarifications, though:

...And no current GSM carrier in the world will build a 3G network from scratch...

Actually, if they want to move to UMTS/WCDMA, that's pretty much what they will have to do. It's not 100% from scratch, but it's close enough to be very difficult and expensive. It's a whole lot more than just an "upgrade" or "evolution" of GSM - it's nearly all-new everything. There is a lot of compatibility with GSM, but not enough to allow significant infrastructure re-use.

Even in the heart of Europe, there are a lot of carriers that are holding off and haven't even started building ...
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Whoever says GSM is worse then CDMA at voice quality and reseption is stupid. Coverage, sure... you try having to overlay your entire network and see how good your coverage is halfway through! Hindsight is always 20/20 kiddos, lets look to the future, instead of the past. 🙂

😕 ...and what does that have to do with what I was talking about? I certainly didn't say GSM is worse than CDMA, and please don't call people stupid. Are you just trying to start an argument?

Please once again, ignore any comments from Moobak he thinks he is the coolest thing ever and he loves attws more than his mother. he is rude, ****y and arrogant, I suggest you just don't even read post with his name on it.

Don't saw I didn't warn you.

PS rich it does look like he is starting a fight with you, I wouldn't take that from that little punk!

What the hell do you have against me TDMA Dude? Again back up your claims little man, before spouting off.
Rich, I wasn't directing that at you, I don't know how you thought I was, exept maby you're just lake TDMA Dude here and out to just piss people off. 🙂

Moobak - you do know that this is Rich's website right?

Whoa... 😳

GSM will not mutate into CDMA2000! (Unless you're talking about Qualcomm's GSM1x, which believe me does not have traction at this point.)

GSM/GPRS/EDGE networks will be augmented with WCDMA (UMTS) in urban areas. But to provide decent data speeds, WCDMA requires additional spectrum, something that is still five years away in the U.S.

CDMA2000 1x, meanwhile, requires no additional spectrum (excluding EV-DO). 1xEV-DV will provide true 3G with no additional spectrum. But that had nothing to do with the GSM camp.

As for 3xRTT, forget it. No one is even talking about CDMA2000 3x right now, and for good reason. It's called "3x" precisely because it requires three times as much spectrum. Compare that with 1xEV-D...
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3x means THIRD GENERATION, not three x the spectrum, silly. 😛

3G means third generation.

3x means three times the spectrum. Trust me.

1xRTT: first generation radio transmission technology
Also called code division multiple access (CDMA) 2000, the first generation of CDMA packet switching architecture (IS-95c) in which up to ten time-slots can be grouped for a peak data rate of 144 kbits per second. It offers double of the voice capacity of its predecessor but still uses the 1.25 MHz carrier of IS-95a.

Thusly, 3xRTT will mean third generation radio transmission technology. This is TRUE CDMA 2000 technology, which Verizon will be upgrading to eventually. Their path is 1xRTT - 1xEV-DO - 1xEV-DV, then probably going straight to 3xRTT and beyond.

NO. AMPS is 1g. CDMA (orginal version) is 2g 1xRTT is 2.5g and EV-DV (and EV-DO rev A with VoIP) is 3g.

actually...gsm is the superior system all you have to do is look to the genuises of technology, japan and korea. They started out on the tdma service (2g) and then graduated to GSM (2.5g) and now they have moved on to (3g) service which is umts. since all of the wireless services in the US are chasing the technology that is coming out in Asia, it is not hard to see where the superiority is. The global use alone is enough to attract a large portion of consumers. by the way, Cingular is on its way to the UMTS serv, superior to all the rest

Quite the opposite it appears GSM is looking for ways to use CDMA

http://www.gsm1x.com/ »

Like I said, CDMA might be better in quality, but financialy everyone wants GSM.

A manufacturer will gain more $$$ producing GSM phones than CDMA.

Also providers will be able to give their customers more with GSM roaming, and compatibility, all they need is good coverage and continuos maintnance.

dorisall said:
Like I said, CDMA might be better in quality, but financialy everyone wants GSM.

A manufacturer will gain more $$$ producing GSM phones than CDMA.

what $$$ Figures do you have that support this claim?

Eventually Verizon is gonna have to make the switch. Over 180 countries on GSM, and only 5 or 6 have CDMA. EV-DO is a great advancement but who wants to pay $70 a month for it? UMTS will blow it out the water anyway, edge is enough to be competitive and not give a person heart attack when they see their bill. EV-DO is gonna have more latency than UMTS so you're not always gonna have those speeds they advertise.

OK I'm not buying it

From http://www.cdg.org/
"Today, 126 operators have launched 123 CDMA2000 1X and 22 1xEV-DO commercial networks across Asia, the Americas and Europe. 20 1X and 20 1xEV-DO networks are scheduled to be deployed in 2005, as of June 8, 2005.

More than 850 devices are available on the market with color displays, cameras and GPS capabilities, as of June 8, 2005."

From http://www.mobiletechnews.com/info/2004/05/12 /015548.html

"CDMA subscriber base grows by 31 percent Q1 2004 representing the highest growth for any leading cellular technology...CDMA added nearly 13.5 million subscribers in 1Q 2004, reaching 202 million users worldwide. In one year, from March 2003 to 2004, the CDMA subscriber base grew by a record 4...
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"CDMA subscriber base grows by 31 percent Q1 2004 representing the highest growth for any leading cellular technology

131% of crap is still crap. 😡

I kid, I kid. While the new EV-DO systems or whatever may be faster than the UMTS, think about the type of people who honestly care about that. Types of people like us, who are cell phone buffs and want the fastest, best stuff out there. The majority of buyers want SERVICE. They don't care if you have EDGE or SUPER EV-DOMINATION or whatever stupid name you call it. They want to be able to make a call and stick with it.

In the US, Cingular's GSM network is larger than Verizon's 1xRTT. You look at their map and say "OH WHOA I SEE RED EVERYWHERE" Truth is t...
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AshDizzle said:
In the US, Cingular's GSM network is larger than Verizon's 1xRTT. You look at their map and say "OH WHOA I SEE RED EVERYWHERE" Truth is that a good portion of that red is other subcarriers that Verizon can roam off of, for a smooth .69 a minute. Cingular, owns it's whole network, no roaming. No bull. (i've had both).

Really? The dark red on VZW map is no roaming or LD charges, and BTW Cingular uses network from T-Mobile among others they do not own 100% of what they use! goto http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/roa_u sbe.shtml then go down to US!

Nice try 😛

Ah, a bold move.

According to my Cingular rep, all roaming agreements with T-mobile are being removed since the acquisition of ATTWS. Any remaining roaming areas are simply towers which have not been maintenanced yet.

And I can't agree with you on the dark red on the verizon coverage map. I have used Verizon in the past and been charged the most ridiculous amounts of roaming. This is what originally turned me on to ATTWS GSM, no roaming fees. I have been in the dark red and recieved no data services, been charged roaming, and sometimes no service at all! I believe it is well known in the wireless industry that Verizon's coverage map is a bit of a farce.

AshDizzle said:
Ah, a bold move.

According to my Cingular rep, all roaming agreements with T-mobile are being removed since the acquisition of ATTWS. Any remaining roaming areas are simply towers which have not been maintenanced yet.

And I can't agree with you on the dark red on the verizon coverage map. I have used Verizon in the past and been charged the most ridiculous amounts of roaming. This is what originally turned me on to ATTWS GSM, no roaming fees. I have been in the dark red and recieved no data services, been charged roaming, and sometimes no service at all! I believe it is well known in the wireless industry that Verizon's coverage map is a bit of a farce.

If you believe everything ...
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The map you chose for cingular is conveniently the GoPhone prepaid coverage area, which is nowhere near the actual coverage for cingular. And if you are saying GoPhone prepaid is what cingular's native area is, you are incorrect.

Right on brotha. The red everywhere is very disturbing because it really isn't everywhere.