New Rollover Policy Sucks!
I just totally lost a sale, cuz he had 19,000 rollover over balance, and if he went to a new family talk rate plan, he would lose all except of 1,400. Anyone else think thats gay!
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acervantes01 said:
I just totally lost a sale, cuz he had 19,000 rollover over balance, and if he went to a new family talk rate plan, he would lose all except of 1,400. Anyone else think thats gay!
Not really, because if he didn't use his minutes enough to build up 19,000 rollover, he definately wouldn't use 1,400 + his 1,400 rollover in one month.
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are you a higher up in cingullar? this rule sucks cause i used to go to the highes plan for one mounth and then go back down now i cant go back down without loosing the minutes!
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Ok you are way too gullible if you actually think Stan Sigman comes on this website. If he does, God help us all. I would like to give him a mouthful about how he is running this company, specifically blue sites.
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i didnt say he is the ceo or something but i asked if he was a higher up like manager or something!
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🙄 Yeah the dork obviously wasn't using the phone anyway, so what does he care about the 19,000 minutes?
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No, two men having sex together...that's gay. Having 19000 rollover minutes.....wasteful. Getting only 1400 minutes of your 19000...priceless.
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Actually he is using about 6,000 and his son was away in the army and he was usng 2000 a week, thats why he didnt want to lose them, but is that the whole point to cingular they are your mintues keep them, now we are taking them away. And he says screw it, my contract is almost up, I will go somewhere else I would hate to lost my mins, even if I had 19,000 I dont care, they are still his mins. know what I mean
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Why couldn't you leave him on the same plan? I can't think of any rollover plans on TDMA that wouldn't work with a GSM handset. Was he going from one line to two lines? That's the only time I think the policy sucks, since you HAVE to change it to add a line.
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Yup, he had one going to two, but what around those who go to the high plan to build up rollover, and then want to save money so they want to downgrade, now we are just screwing them.
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Getting a plan slightly higher than what you need is smart, but getting a plan that 1000 minutes more than you need never made much sense to me anyway. Some people, like him, will lose a lot by switching. Most people wont lose much, if anything at all.
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Like He Said...They are just Minutes...And no other ccompany will give him rollover
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springorem said:
Like He Said...They are just Minutes...And no other ccompany will give him rollover
I agree totally. Plans change and policies change. It's the way of business.
Not only that, this guys point is pretty bogus. Anyone who has 19000 Rollover minutes is losing upwards of 2000 minutes per month anyway. Every month, whatever leftover minutes the guy had from 12 months ago would fall off. So within a year those minutes would be gone anyway. Also, the guys had a SINGLE line plan. If he wants to change to a NEW plan, then you have to follow the rules of the new plan. Every wireless company is like this. Something else comes to mind. Why on gods green earth would he need 19,000 rollover minutes? Th...
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acervantes01 said:
Yup, he had one going to two, but what around those who go to the high plan to build up rollover, and then want to save money so they want to downgrade, now we are just screwing them.
First off people that start out with a 6000 minute plan, keep it for 3 months to build up a cushion, then move down to a 450 minute plan are screwing the company. It greatly affects our ARPU when they do that. Despite how much some customers bitch and moan, they like to know that they are with the number one company, and when we are getting pounded by the other carriers for our low ARPU, they take notice of things like that, and start to question whether or not they should stay with us, cause they (in the v...
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That is the whole point to the rollover cap. People are cheating the system by going to a ridiculously high plan and then huilding rollover bank then going down to 39.99. Cingular will lose money if people do that. More money they can use to build more network.
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I called this guy on his complaining the other day. I just had a feeling he is one of those "complain about everything" type guys.
So far it looks like my feeling was right on.
So far it looks like my feeling was right on.
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And I call you on thinking you know everything, when you don't. If you did you would see what Cingular is doing, whats the whole point of saying keep your mins. When we are going to take them away from you if you downgrade. He wanted to downgrade for a couple of months to save money, then when his son came home, he would up his mintues again. But Cingular had to do something great again, and we lost another customer. So I am not complaining, I am just saying whats true, so what you would to say that TEX
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No where in the written policy or training was it said customers could "rate jump". The plan wasn't designed for people to overpay and then at some unknown future date "cash in" their minutes like they cash in airline miles.
It sucks he was overpaying but no one told him he could overpay then drop down.
Cingular's marketing has always been, keep what you don't use in case your usage increases, not overpay so you can drop down one day.
He also would be in a position where a great deal of his unused minutes would begin to expire automatically based on the old policy and therefore he would lose them anyways.
It is how you present it, and I called you on it already. Itf you present it in a negative fashion in the first place you ar...
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It sucks he was overpaying but no one told him he could overpay then drop down.
Cingular's marketing has always been, keep what you don't use in case your usage increases, not overpay so you can drop down one day.
He also would be in a position where a great deal of his unused minutes would begin to expire automatically based on the old policy and therefore he would lose them anyways.
It is how you present it, and I called you on it already. Itf you present it in a negative fashion in the first place you ar...
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i was told by a rep once its perfectly ok to go up get 6000 mins then drop to 450 and she called me a smart consummer!
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Then the rep wasn't very smart. She just said you were a smart consumer for overpaying on your rate plan instead of saying, WOW, that many minutes. Let's get you a better plan.
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no i would get that many minutes then downgrade for 2 mounths for example $200 for 6000 min. is .03 cents a min but 900 mins at $60 is more like .06 cents a minute so i wouuld go up and down get it now they dont let me any more but luckily i went down before i lost my minutes now i will have to go to the 80 plan for good! sucks for me
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Thanks for proving the point of many here. Closing the loop hole in the system was done to keep users like you from abusing the benefits.
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i can understand that and before i did it i asked them and thats when they told me no prob your a smart consumer! im not going to leave cingular because of this but if i would have lost my mins i would might have been pissed off enogh to leave even if it cost me more!
are you a rep any chance?
are you a rep any chance?
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jack1435 said:
how do you do that?
He is an indirect dealer (owns the store) and, I suppose, considers himself as part of the sales rep team. 😉
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acervantes01 said:
And I call you on thinking you know everything, when you don't. If you did you would see what Cingular is doing, whats the whole point of saying keep your mins. When we are going to take them away from you if you downgrade. He wanted to downgrade for a couple of months to save money, then when his son came home, he would up his minutes again. But Cingular had to do something great again, and we lost another customer. So I am not complaining, I am just saying whats true, so what you would to say that TEX
And when we loose him as a customer he will come back after he goes to Verizon/T-Mobile/Sprintel/AllTel and has huge overage and realizes roll over, at any amount is better than what...
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My customer was paying big bucks, and they are his mintues, and he has been loyal to us thusfar, and now we would like to ADD A LINE for 2 more years, and upgrade his, and save a little money. But now we can't.
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But it wasn't designed or marketed to do that in the first place, and if he had that many rollover minutes someone there sold him the wrong plan.
So now who do you blame? Maybe if he had been sold a better plan for his needs in the first place he would have saved MONEY insetad of just minutes.
So now who do you blame? Maybe if he had been sold a better plan for his needs in the first place he would have saved MONEY insetad of just minutes.
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And you also said the customer stated "they are just minutes". He can't Rollover with any other company, he will lose them eventually anyways, and he obviously wasn't using them. Three good reasons for him to stay. There is no goo reason for him to leave. He will lose his precious rollover minutes, buy new phones, pay an activation, etc.
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I agree, we shouldn't have to lose him. Work on your selling skills.
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His current plan says he can have X rollover minutes.
A lower rated plan says he can have Y rollover minutes. Y is less than X.
If he wants to save the money by switching plans, he must accept the consequences of the switch.
He can't have his cake and eat it, too.
A lower rated plan says he can have Y rollover minutes. Y is less than X.
If he wants to save the money by switching plans, he must accept the consequences of the switch.
He can't have his cake and eat it, too.
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Doesn't he lose them after a year anyway? And if his contract is almost up, chances are he is near expiration anyway.
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ducker007 said:
Doesn't he lose them after a year anyway? And if his contract is almost up, chances are he is near expiration anyway.
That many rollover either means he is on WAY WAY WAY to high a plan to begin with, and will lose his minutes, or he is on an older plan where rollover didn't expire. If the latter is true then no he won't lose them.. ever actually.
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ducker007 said:
Doesn't he lose them after a year anyway? And if his contract is almost up, chances are he is near expiration anyway.
you don't lose all rollover after a year, just the OLDEST month, but you gain the newest month.
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pete1660 said:
No, two men having sex together...that's gay. Having 19000 rollover minutes.....wasteful. Getting only 1400 minutes of your 19000...priceless.
haha ahh another funny post.. good show 😁
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It's not gay, but it's really bad marketing. I can't believe that whatever accounting benefit Cingular gets with this new policy is worth ticking off a lot of customers.
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The only thing Cingular has done wrong here, is not showing the reps how this is a good thing. Yeah some customers will get pissed one way of the other, but I've had customers get mad at me for adding minutes to their account for free.. 🙄 but that's another story.
It's all about how you position it. If make it a negative thing, then your customers will think it's a negative thing, but if you position it as a good thing, by figuring out some way to show them it's going to save them money, then they'll be all for it. It's called sales, if you can't do it, stop wasting your time, and stealing sales I could easily get!
It's all about how you position it. If make it a negative thing, then your customers will think it's a negative thing, but if you position it as a good thing, by figuring out some way to show them it's going to save them money, then they'll be all for it. It's called sales, if you can't do it, stop wasting your time, and stealing sales I could easily get!
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it's not like he would have used those 19,000 roll over minutes that would have expired anyway
and if he switches, then he loses all of them.....
and if he switches, then he loses all of them.....
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thats not the point, it doesn't matter if he has 19,000 or if the next customer has 1,900. they are the customers mintues.
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so why does it make sense for him to go to another company? cingular is the only company that lets you keep any of your minutes period
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And you also said the customer stated "they are just minutes". He can't Rollover with any other company, he will lose his minutes eventually anyways, and he obviously wasn't using them. Three good reasons for him to stay.
There is no goo reason for him to leave. He will lose his precious rollover minutes, buy new phones, pay an activation, etc.
There is no goo reason for him to leave. He will lose his precious rollover minutes, buy new phones, pay an activation, etc.
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the reason to leave is cause like me i was jumping plans buying cheap mins at $200 6000 mins then dropping to a $45 plan why stay with cingular if i cant do this!
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you can still rate jump
just not to the extent you were doing it before
think about it, Verizon makes you sign a contract everytime you change rate plans
just not to the extent you were doing it before
think about it, Verizon makes you sign a contract everytime you change rate plans
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anyway, you should be blaming the abusers who were rate jumping
they're the ones that ruined it for everybody..... don't be so quick to blame Cingular because your customers will pick up on it
all my customers are fine with that explanation
they're the ones that ruined it for everybody..... don't be so quick to blame Cingular because your customers will pick up on it
all my customers are fine with that explanation
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That is exactly the right point,
Explain it right and customers won't be upset. Focus on the fact that he has been overpaying and show him the right plan, not why he suddenly can't use them.
Explain it right and customers won't be upset. Focus on the fact that he has been overpaying and show him the right plan, not why he suddenly can't use them.
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(just one customer's opinion)
. . . is that Cingular is more concerned about being cheated by their customers than about keeping their customers.
It's patently ridiculous to market a terrific industry-leading feature like:
"ROLLOVER - they're YOUR minutes, KEEP 'EM"
and then rip them away like some ponzi-scheme.
It is brain-dead marketing. The real answer is to offer high-rollover customers a rate-change only with a 2-yr contract extension. If a few deadbeat customers figure a way to work the system - get over it!
Rollover imparts a terrific "asset-or-loyalty" hold on customers. It's is bogus and stupid to tarnish that magnetism with a fine-print gotcha .... absolutely horrible for customer good will!
. . . is that Cingular is more concerned about being cheated by their customers than about keeping their customers.
It's patently ridiculous to market a terrific industry-leading feature like:
"ROLLOVER - they're YOUR minutes, KEEP 'EM"
and then rip them away like some ponzi-scheme.
It is brain-dead marketing. The real answer is to offer high-rollover customers a rate-change only with a 2-yr contract extension. If a few deadbeat customers figure a way to work the system - get over it!
Rollover imparts a terrific "asset-or-loyalty" hold on customers. It's is bogus and stupid to tarnish that magnetism with a fine-print gotcha .... absolutely horrible for customer good will!
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They can always choose to not lose the minutes by not changing their plan.
They are under contract, after all. If they want to change their contract, they must accept what changes come with it.
They are under contract, after all. If they want to change their contract, they must accept what changes come with it.
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chamelea said:
. . . is that Cingular is more concerned about being cheated by their customers than about keeping their customers.
If are customers cheat us, then we'll go out of business and have no customers.
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look plain and simple if someone has 19000 rollover and they are complaining about loosing them....... i don't think they were going to use them anyway.. the unused mins. have NO monetary value it's not like you can go into a store and say "Hey you know with these 19000 rollover mins. i have, let me get 4 Treos 3 Razrs and a few BT's" Drink some prune juice and let the $#!t go!!!!!!
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why would you go out of buis ness all there doing is buying minutes for cheap! stupid 😉
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As a customer I repsect your opinion BUT...
The people that this effects are of two main groups, those who abuse the system and those who are not ever going to use those minutes.
If you routinely use your minutes then you won't be losing anything. Odds are your balance is extremely low anyways. If you get on the wrong plan and overpay for that long to accumulate that many minutes they WILL EXPIRE, even according to the old rules.
If you contrived a way to get value out of these minutes when it was never designed to have future value other than to cover overage then don't get upset. Cingular isn't trying to "screw" anyone here. They are getting a system under control that had unintended consequences.
And the answer is not to m...
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The people that this effects are of two main groups, those who abuse the system and those who are not ever going to use those minutes.
If you routinely use your minutes then you won't be losing anything. Odds are your balance is extremely low anyways. If you get on the wrong plan and overpay for that long to accumulate that many minutes they WILL EXPIRE, even according to the old rules.
If you contrived a way to get value out of these minutes when it was never designed to have future value other than to cover overage then don't get upset. Cingular isn't trying to "screw" anyone here. They are getting a system under control that had unintended consequences.
And the answer is not to m...
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Tex,
I've monitored your observations for awhile, noting a business maturity that's sometimes lacking here. I'm not trying to change minds, just impart some external perspective. Perhaps I failed to emphasize my main points ...
It is counterproductive to market "YOUR minutes, KEEP 'EM" and then 'play gotcha'. After all, IT IS ESSENTIALLY a LOYALTY program - any GOTCHA is the antithesis. (Note well: airlines have figured out that even "expiring" the credits is counterproductive.) The marketing message "promised me" that I can keep 'em, but NOW ... (p.s. Argue this at your peril)!
It matters not whether the new rule snags me ... just "hearing" about a "grab-back" FRACTURES that fragile loyalty. I can't even count the times have I read ...
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I've monitored your observations for awhile, noting a business maturity that's sometimes lacking here. I'm not trying to change minds, just impart some external perspective. Perhaps I failed to emphasize my main points ...
It is counterproductive to market "YOUR minutes, KEEP 'EM" and then 'play gotcha'. After all, IT IS ESSENTIALLY a LOYALTY program - any GOTCHA is the antithesis. (Note well: airlines have figured out that even "expiring" the credits is counterproductive.) The marketing message "promised me" that I can keep 'em, but NOW ... (p.s. Argue this at your peril)!
It matters not whether the new rule snags me ... just "hearing" about a "grab-back" FRACTURES that fragile loyalty. I can't even count the times have I read ...
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Nice,
Wow,
That's pretty long,
And completely misses the point I made to the thread starter.
Rollover is a very unique feature that has created a side effect of people overpaying for service "intentionally or unintentionally" and then thinking their minutes have some future value.
The "marketing" as you are pointing out never stated you get to keep them forever. None of the in store literature did either. Since it's inception we have given out literature with explantions as to how rollover works and how after 12 months the oldest minutes begin to expire.
What causes customers to churn (one of the reasons anyways) is having a "grass is greener" feeling. If plan vs. plan is similar and we have rollover they might want to...
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Wow,
That's pretty long,
And completely misses the point I made to the thread starter.
Rollover is a very unique feature that has created a side effect of people overpaying for service "intentionally or unintentionally" and then thinking their minutes have some future value.
The "marketing" as you are pointing out never stated you get to keep them forever. None of the in store literature did either. Since it's inception we have given out literature with explantions as to how rollover works and how after 12 months the oldest minutes begin to expire.
What causes customers to churn (one of the reasons anyways) is having a "grass is greener" feeling. If plan vs. plan is similar and we have rollover they might want to...
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texaswireless said:
... completely misses the point I made to the thread starter.
In all your arguments you still failed to show me a scenario where a customer would be harmed by this change that was not intentionally trying to cheat the system. ...
Agreed - we disagree.
My arguments were not about "counting minutes" to define where the harm occurs. The harm is simply in the twist, the fine-print snag. That's where the insult occurs even if there's no accounting for it. It's about the ethereal message that first attracts customers, and about the intangible hold Cingular maintains (or loses) on customers.
And if you think Cingular's sales team suffers only a dozen "leaky attitudes" then you haven't ...
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Hmmm, let's see.
I worked in a company that had over 100 stores. Is that enough stores to have visited (I admit, I didn't visit them all, but more than half)?
And considering more than half of Cingular's distribution is via indirect, their company policy dictates just as much as Cingular itself.
You are wading into a pool with which you have no understanding of the depth. You see the surface only and assume you know what goes on beneath that surface. Frankly, you probably have no concept. Not only have I owned and managed retail for almost 13 years, I live in a town with two different call centers. I know a great deal of Cingular employees who are not only very satisfied but extremely happy with their jobs. Are there malconten...
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I worked in a company that had over 100 stores. Is that enough stores to have visited (I admit, I didn't visit them all, but more than half)?
And considering more than half of Cingular's distribution is via indirect, their company policy dictates just as much as Cingular itself.
You are wading into a pool with which you have no understanding of the depth. You see the surface only and assume you know what goes on beneath that surface. Frankly, you probably have no concept. Not only have I owned and managed retail for almost 13 years, I live in a town with two different call centers. I know a great deal of Cingular employees who are not only very satisfied but extremely happy with their jobs. Are there malconten...
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In my opinion, Cingular will pay for this shortsighted move. The loss of rollover minutes when changing plans (even when increasing service, a point that I haven't seen raised here) will directly cause a high end-of-contract attrition rate. Although a fine parsing of the advertising and contractual verbiage will likely uncover nothing illegal, the practice is still highly unethical and smacks of bait-and-switch.
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i have had ZERO people complain about this so far. everyone understands it and is OK with it.
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That's not what my research is telling me. Numerous boards and complaint sites are loaded with this issue. I called the FCC and several state AG offices, and they have been nearly deluged. I've even been told that several lawsuits are in the works.
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Name one.
Which FCC number did you call?
There is no direct number for the FCC that will inform you of complaints OTHERS are filing until the investigation is complete. The FCC is always about 3-4 weeks behind and this change happened 19 days ago. They couldn't have even started on those complaints from October 1st.
I call B.S.
Stop making stuff up.
Which FCC number did you call?
There is no direct number for the FCC that will inform you of complaints OTHERS are filing until the investigation is complete. The FCC is always about 3-4 weeks behind and this change happened 19 days ago. They couldn't have even started on those complaints from October 1st.
I call B.S.
Stop making stuff up.
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Call what you want. My "number" is not public. I rely on my network, which is spot-on accurate.
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So you don't even challenge any of my facts about my timelines at the F.C.C.? You are just going to whip out the "my network" card.
Nice to be anonymous on the internet and not have to have any real facts.
Anyone go ahead and file a complaint at the F.C.C., they will tell you the same timeline I have described.
Nice to be anonymous on the internet and not have to have any real facts.
Anyone go ahead and file a complaint at the F.C.C., they will tell you the same timeline I have described.
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Surely you recognize that your facts and my network are not mutually exclusive. Information is always available to the diligent seeker prior to the completion of any process.
Seek comfort in the legality of Cingular's actions, but the market backlash will be akin to the now famous "no controlling legal authority" statement by a former presidential candidate. To be crass, Cingular has screwed loyal customers. In fact, rollover minute banking is a de facto loyalty program. As contracts end, without a reversal in position, Cingular will experience significant rolling attrition.
Seek comfort in the legality of Cingular's actions, but the market backlash will be akin to the now famous "no controlling legal authority" statement by a former presidential candidate. To be crass, Cingular has screwed loyal customers. In fact, rollover minute banking is a de facto loyalty program. As contracts end, without a reversal in position, Cingular will experience significant rolling attrition.
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Well,
I am willing to take the opinions of my netork (that is, all the employees who have stated they have had little or no negative reaction to the changes) or some unknown. There have been many people here stating they don't like the change people of the "potential" for issues but very few have said there are actual issues.
State your sources or drop it. Anyone can come in here and say, "They are going to get get sued and the backlash is significant" but without sources you just look like a raving idiot.
Are you even a Cingular customer?
I am willing to take the opinions of my netork (that is, all the employees who have stated they have had little or no negative reaction to the changes) or some unknown. There have been many people here stating they don't like the change people of the "potential" for issues but very few have said there are actual issues.
State your sources or drop it. Anyone can come in here and say, "They are going to get get sued and the backlash is significant" but without sources you just look like a raving idiot.
Are you even a Cingular customer?
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Tex, we're talking about wireless service, not open heart surgery. At the end of the day, if customers are pissed, they'll leave. I am, and I will. Your attitude is typical of the customer "service" perspective that pervades not just wireless, but most industries that contractually bind providers to customers over a period of time. You shortsightedly hide behind the letter of the contract, while sacrificing long term return by blissfully ignoring the spirit of the deal and the environment in which it was sold.
At the end of the day, pal, perception is reality. If people perceive that their rollover is being stolen, then it is being stolen, and they will leave.
It's just wireless, though. Nothing I'm going to lose any sleep over...
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At the end of the day, pal, perception is reality. If people perceive that their rollover is being stolen, then it is being stolen, and they will leave.
It's just wireless, though. Nothing I'm going to lose any sleep over...
(continues)
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Site your sources.
The vast majority of customers are UNAFFECTED.
Why are you avoiding the question?
The vast majority of customers are UNAFFECTED.
Why are you avoiding the question?
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It's "cite", not "site".
They are unaffected now, as the loss of rollover only affects customers when the plan changes, something they were told would not happen. That will change over time.
My sources have been presented as clearly as yours have.
They are unaffected now, as the loss of rollover only affects customers when the plan changes, something they were told would not happen. That will change over time.
My sources have been presented as clearly as yours have.
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You said you spoke to the FCC and many state AG offices and they have ALREADY been swamped with complaints. You said lawsuits were in the works. Now you say it hasn't happened yet?
Which one is the lie?
CITE your sources. Show us a website from a state or federal agency stating this is an issue. Show us the number so we can verify this is indeed an issue and not a figment of your imagination.
Which one is the lie?
CITE your sources. Show us a website from a state or federal agency stating this is an issue. Show us the number so we can verify this is indeed an issue and not a figment of your imagination.
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I'll walk you through it...
You said in your post that your customers haven't complained. To that assertion of yours I responded that "it hasn't happened yet".
However, those customers (obviously none of yours, due to your fine customer service) who HAVE realized that they are being screwed HAVE complained in large numbers to various federal and state authorities.
The statements coexist peacefully in their respective contexts.
Got it?
You said in your post that your customers haven't complained. To that assertion of yours I responded that "it hasn't happened yet".
However, those customers (obviously none of yours, due to your fine customer service) who HAVE realized that they are being screwed HAVE complained in large numbers to various federal and state authorities.
The statements coexist peacefully in their respective contexts.
Got it?
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Now you are backing up.
You came in here, puffing out your chest and making rash statements and I called you on it.
You didn't respond with "it hasn't happened yet", you said it had happened and agencies have been "deluged" with complaints. I called you on your BS post due to the simple fact of the time line and now you are backing out of that statement and trying to change what you said.
Stop the BS grand standing and trolling. The fac...
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You came in here, puffing out your chest and making rash statements and I called you on it.
Buckw said:
That's not what my research is telling me. Numerous boards and complaint sites are loaded with this issue. I called the FCC and several state AG offices, and they have been nearly deluged. I've even been told that several lawsuits are in the works.
You didn't respond with "it hasn't happened yet", you said it had happened and agencies have been "deluged" with complaints. I called you on your BS post due to the simple fact of the time line and now you are backing out of that statement and trying to change what you said.
Stop the BS grand standing and trolling. The fac...
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Did you even read my last response? Or are you just practicing that time honored Cingular customer service? How do you respond to a disgruntled customer? "I'm sorry you feel that way"???
Go back, read my post. In it, I stood by my original statement, and explained my response to you.
If you can't understand that, then it is you who are the disruptor. Either that, or a mole.
Go back, read my post. In it, I stood by my original statement, and explained my response to you.
If you can't understand that, then it is you who are the disruptor. Either that, or a mole.
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So what exactly is your main quarrel with the loss of Rollover Balance during a rate plan jump. If you have to jump you started on the wrong plan...unless you are one of the customers on whom the blame is placed for the loss of this particular privilege. We lost the Rollover because people would start on a higher plan and then jump to the lowest, thus accumulating enough to cover the low amount of minutes at a low cost. This is putting Cingular (your coveted "my network") out of business. Cingular itself does not make a cent off a customer on a 59.99 and higher plan until about the 11th month of service. On the 39.99 plan they come just about even. This is because the funds are going to tower maintenance, handsets, service...etc.
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"They're your minutes--keep 'em"
That's what I want to do. By removing my rollover balance if I change plans, Cingular is stealing the minutes that I paid for.
Airlines lose money on frequent flyer miles, but they would be prosecuted if they removed the miles from a passenger's account if the passenger bought a discount ticket rather than full fare.
Same thing here. Clerks encouraged "buying up" because there would be no penalty by sizing down later. Now there is. That's bait and switch.
That's what I want to do. By removing my rollover balance if I change plans, Cingular is stealing the minutes that I paid for.
Airlines lose money on frequent flyer miles, but they would be prosecuted if they removed the miles from a passenger's account if the passenger bought a discount ticket rather than full fare.
Same thing here. Clerks encouraged "buying up" because there would be no penalty by sizing down later. Now there is. That's bait and switch.
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bait and switch is advertising one thing and selling another. A customer can keep every single rollover minute according to the policy on the plan they signed up on. IF you switch plans you'll have your balanced capped. If you don't like it, stay on the same plan.
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I'll just point out that roughly every major airline is billions of dollars in debt. The only reason that they are still around is the fact that they are used by avery major country and those countries are loaning them money.
Cingular does not have that cussion to fall upon. basically you would not have a network to work off of if it is constantly taken advantage of.
Cingular does not have that cussion to fall upon. basically you would not have a network to work off of if it is constantly taken advantage of.
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in the end, this only pisses off those that want to take advantage of cingular. besides, if you find out that you'll be covered with 450 minutes, then what do you care if you have 450 rollover minutes or 600? you are still falling underneath the original alotted minutes
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they would not be investigated for their frequent flyer mile stance. they still practice this. there are only certain types of tickets that give frequent flyer miles (where you bought it, was it a promo, were you stand-by, etc)
i think tex summed it up pretty well when he called bs
i think tex summed it up pretty well when he called bs
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Is this Tex?
My point concerned the hypothetical removal of EARNED FF miles if a passenger bought a FUTURE ticket at a reduced fare. The airlines do not do that today, and would be thrashed if they did. That is the Cingular rollover theft analogy.
You're right--there's a lot of BS here, and it ain't coming from me.
My point concerned the hypothetical removal of EARNED FF miles if a passenger bought a FUTURE ticket at a reduced fare. The airlines do not do that today, and would be thrashed if they did. That is the Cingular rollover theft analogy.
You're right--there's a lot of BS here, and it ain't coming from me.
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southwest. if you buy a ticket in advance and change your flight plan, you do not get applicable frequent flyer miles. The same goes for delta, skyblue, and amer air. search it up falacy-man
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Are you really happy with your post? I mean, it does not address my analogy. In your example, the miles have not yet been EARNED. Miles are only EARNED when the route is FLOWN. I talked about EARNED miles.
OK? Clear? Chat with Tex & get back to me.
OK? Clear? Chat with Tex & get back to me.
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Yea this is true..
I fly a lot and I get the miles once the route has been flown… that is 100 percent true!
I fly a lot and I get the miles once the route has been flown… that is 100 percent true!
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that is because you cant change a frequent flyer plan, its all more or less the same, and unlike a calling plan, there's no limit to the miles you can accumulate in a month before you hit overage.
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i am now heading out of my store, but i'm sure that SpringOrem can field most posts.
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It not is an applicable analogy anyways. You do not pay a monthly airline fee to stay with an airline. It is a one time cost and you earn miles from what you have done.
You are picking a situation that is just similar enough to meet your own needs.
You are picking a situation that is just similar enough to meet your own needs.
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in short, buckw is trying to run away from his own bull. its time to suck back on a big one 😲 and admit he's wrong
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I completely understand it. You changed you stance, I even reposted your first malicious claim.
Buckw said:
That's not what my research is telling me. Numerous boards and complaint sites are loaded with this issue. I called the FCC and several state AG offices, and they have been nearly deluged. I've even been told that several lawsuits are in the works.
Buckw said:
They are unaffected now, as the loss of rollover only affects customers when the plan changes, something they were told would not happen. That will change over time.
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Generally, I have to consult with carnival workers or investigative reporters to find this level of intellectual performance. The statements are consistent in their context, as I explained. Either you really don't understand, in which case I have failed, or you really do understand and just enjoy the sport of taking losing debating positions.
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Customer or not, you are a fool.
You made a pretty bold statement at the beginning and when called on your BS completely backed off.
You made a pretty bold statement at the beginning and when called on your BS completely backed off.
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The sky is blue, whether you believe it or not. I stand by the bold statement, as I have patiently explained to you. The bait & switch must have been your idea.
Moderator--please research. Thanks.
Moderator--please research. Thanks.
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Please research? Read your own statements. You haven't explained anything except your own ability to back track.
You can't make a bold statement AND back track.
You can't make a bold statement AND back track.
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It's been fun, but I'm through with you. My position and statements are entirely consistent.
I expect you now to declare victory. You will certainly reconsider that declaration as your customer renewal and recapture rates plummet.
As I said, it's just wireless. When my contract is up, I'm gone. And I won't be alone.
I expect you now to declare victory. You will certainly reconsider that declaration as your customer renewal and recapture rates plummet.
As I said, it's just wireless. When my contract is up, I'm gone. And I won't be alone.
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I have no intention of declaring "victory". I made attempts to call out a statement that was frought with misinformation.
Others can decide.
Others can decide.
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Which information is that?
I have the F.C.C. timelines for complaint handling. It is readily available on their website.
I have the F.C.C. timelines for complaint handling. It is readily available on their website.
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OK, If I get what you are asking you want to know if I have the information he is presenting? He presented that the limitation of rollover balances has already generated complaints to the FCC and many stae AG offices. I challenged that statement, so I don't have it, I wanted him to have it.
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But you said his information was mis-information. Why would you challenge a statement that he has facts to back it up and you don’t?
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His information was mis-information because he couldn't back it up, that was the problem. He made sweeping statements, Tex called him on it, and he did nothing but back pedal. If he had facts he did not present them as facts, they were displayed as conjecture.
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I see, but he and you have no idea if they are facts or not because you cant get the information he has or else you and him would have proved him wrong with FACTS, so basically it is you and tX’s word against his word. It looked like he presented them as facts when I noticed it.
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Nextel18, he has zero facts to back it up. I asked him to provide these facts and he backed up and tried to change his position.
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You also have no facts to back it up. Perhaps he is not allowed to back those facts up due to intellectual property or what not. Have you noticed that sometimes it says you are not allowed to mention something? (When you look at research)
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Nextel18,
Look at what he cited. He cited the fact that complaints have been filed at the FCC and with state AG offices. That is public information. When asked to cite it he then changed to saying, "well, it hasn't happened yet".
Look at what he cited. He cited the fact that complaints have been filed at the FCC and with state AG offices. That is public information. When asked to cite it he then changed to saying, "well, it hasn't happened yet".
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Why do you have to ask him to cite it because why don’t you if it is public information?
Prove him wrong.
Prove him wrong.
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So prove something… instead of you and him bickering back and forth why don’t you actually get some facts from the information that is public as you mentioned and just state it and then if he is wrong with what he has been saying then obviously it is a negative, however, so far you haven’t proved he was wrong yet.
try it.
Alright TX, well I do not spend 24/7 like you and ruff do loll so I am going to see ya. Have fun arguing with the rest of the members including the person who you are arguing with, with no facts. Loll
try it.
Alright TX, well I do not spend 24/7 like you and ruff do loll so I am going to see ya. Have fun arguing with the rest of the members including the person who you are arguing with, with no facts. Loll
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Oh god you are just trying to troll now.
I stated my facts, and those facts are based on personal interaction with customers as well as the feedback of countless veteran reps here on phonescoop and in West Texas.
I stated my facts, and those facts are based on personal interaction with customers as well as the feedback of countless veteran reps here on phonescoop and in West Texas.
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you have to excuse TX... he is all over everyone if they make a small mistake or if he doesnt belive them...
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Thank you for your thoughts! He's trying to build a case on a very bad foundation, and he's failing.
In my case, he certainly hasn't found any mistakes, and I truly feel that he believes me. The truth, however, may hurt his business.
Best regards.
In my case, he certainly hasn't found any mistakes, and I truly feel that he believes me. The truth, however, may hurt his business.
Best regards.
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Yes. He does that to me also and others on this forum, but other people do that to others as well, so I guess that is a normal trend, however, it is a bad one.
I actually know what you are talking about and I will back you up with this situation and presentation to the forum and to him. It is fascinating how people if it is against their carrier they go haywire and they attack others if their carrier does not do that well or what not. It is also interesting how that when people like you and I have information that they cant get and when we present a presentation or project to the board, they criticize it because it is 1 against their carrier and 2 they just do not believe it.
Oh well.
Best regards.
By the way keep posting...
(continues)
I actually know what you are talking about and I will back you up with this situation and presentation to the forum and to him. It is fascinating how people if it is against their carrier they go haywire and they attack others if their carrier does not do that well or what not. It is also interesting how that when people like you and I have information that they cant get and when we present a presentation or project to the board, they criticize it because it is 1 against their carrier and 2 they just do not believe it.
Oh well.
Best regards.
By the way keep posting...
(continues)
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Good. It will be helpful to the board if we have many informative posters on this forum to offset those who are not.
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You know...I have been in speech and debate for awhile and you made a strong argument. I do like to take the other side but you did very well. I give you my respect.
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Oh, and the only data ANYWHERE that would be able to track the impact this early would be Cingular's own internal data (and I know it wouldn't be released to just you).
Like I said, I call B.S. on your stats.
Like I said, I call B.S. on your stats.
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Buckw said:
In my opinion, Cingular will pay for this shortsighted move. The loss of rollover minutes when changing plans (even when increasing service, a point that I haven't seen raised here) will directly cause a high end-of-contract attrition rate. Although a fine parsing of the advertising and contractual verbiage will likely uncover nothing illegal, the practice is still highly unethical and smacks of bait-and-switch.
I have to side with Cingular here. They never advertised to keep the minutes NO MATTER WHAT. You are making a change...I'm surprised they let you keep ANY of the minutes if you change plans. And of course no one has raised the point that you don't keep all your minutes even if you ...
(continues)
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Dude, IT DOESN'T EFFECT THOSE WHO USE IT AS INTENDED. The customers it will hurt are two main types, those abusing the loophole (which is why they did it) and those who were drastically overpaying (in which case NOT going to a new plan would cause them to churn even faster since overpaying is worse that losing something of no value).
No one here has been able to make an argument where it would effect a legitimate customer who was using the feature as intended.
Oh, and the reason no one said anything about losing it when you go up is this, you wouldn't go up BEFORE using up existing rollover. That would just be dumb.
No one here has been able to make an argument where it would effect a legitimate customer who was using the feature as intended.
Oh, and the reason no one said anything about losing it when you go up is this, you wouldn't go up BEFORE using up existing rollover. That would just be dumb.
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chamelea said:
It is counterproductive to market "YOUR minutes, KEEP 'EM" and then 'play gotcha'. After all, IT IS ESSENTIALLY a LOYALTY program - any GOTCHA is the antithesis. (Note well: airlines have figured out that even "expiring" the credits is counterproductive.) The marketing message "promised me" that I can keep 'em, but NOW ... (p.s. Argue this at your peril)!
I must avow that never have I seen any of our ad's or in store collateral mention anywhere "There your minutes, keep 'em... for ever and ever, till the end of time" Which is what your contention here seems to be based upon. They are your minutes. You do get to keep them, just not ad infinitum. Cingular’s end of the deal can only be as go...
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CSR commented:
Cingular MADE Rollover, and they can take it away if that is what needs to be done.
Obviously failing any cognizance of the concept of a "marketing contract" with the consumer.
They are not literally ripping these minutes from the customers that have them. They are simply limiting the customers adjustments to try and "outsmart" the system.
Once a marketing message is fully ingrained, Cingular's customers make this judgement, not CSRs, not Cingular either.
If you have a customer that is mad about this, then too bad.
This reflects the epitome of Cingular's current approach to their market ...
It is VERY rare where t...
(continues)
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Oh no, not another one.
If you want to take what you read here and apply the attitudes of a dozen unknowns to that of an entire corporation then you are just unrealistic.
If you want to debate individuals, fine. Don't get out your brush and start with the broad strokes. It is completely baseless and without merit.
If you want to take what you read here and apply the attitudes of a dozen unknowns to that of an entire corporation then you are just unrealistic.
If you want to debate individuals, fine. Don't get out your brush and start with the broad strokes. It is completely baseless and without merit.
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I have a different carrier, and I don't get rollover. I make an effort to use all of my minutes so I don't lose them. If I had rollover, I would be lazy, and then when I lost rollover minutes, I would be mad, crazy, etc. If people are building up a lot of rollover minutes, their current plan is too big. I am a light user and I have a 29.99 plan that gives me the right amount of minutes. Cingular never should have come up with rollover. Now they are paying for it.
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Well, they don't even offer rollover for users like you so how can you say you'd be upset?
You don't spend enough to qualify.
If you had rollover you would be lazy? Lazy how? MOST users, smart users fit their plan to their needs, not the reverse. Since the vast majority of users have needs that vary rollover helps that issue.
If you have to work to use up all your minutes AND you are on what is most likely your carriers MINIMUM plan this feature was never designed for someone like you in the first place. It is easy to understand WHY you don't see the value. Considering the average user spends 66% more than you how can you understand their needs since yours aren't even close to similar?
You don't spend enough to qualify.
If you had rollover you would be lazy? Lazy how? MOST users, smart users fit their plan to their needs, not the reverse. Since the vast majority of users have needs that vary rollover helps that issue.
If you have to work to use up all your minutes AND you are on what is most likely your carriers MINIMUM plan this feature was never designed for someone like you in the first place. It is easy to understand WHY you don't see the value. Considering the average user spends 66% more than you how can you understand their needs since yours aren't even close to similar?
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agree 100% your doing some smart thinking i alsways took advantage one rep called me a smart consummer!
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The only thing "gay" about it, is that he was on the wrong plan to begin with. If you are rolling over that many minutes, then you are clearly paying too much, and should be on a lower minute plan.
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I'm not trying to personally attack but, if I'm not mistaken, you said "I just totally lost a sale" and in my mind, that just sounds like you didn't have the persaverance to pursue or subdue his anger or frustration to get the sale. I know that I've lose a lot of sales to a lot worse things than "I'm losing 19,000 rollover min." I think your anger is only due to the fact that you didn't get paid for your time with this customer. It's ok, I understand, it's the way sale are, happens to everyone, the cool thing is, we can learn how to overcome those hurdles to sell on a future date.) keep at it man, that situation will come again and you'll be ready 😉 😁
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The lack of business comprehension is unbelievable. I think that it is so funny that reps in stores think that they know what is best for the company always. I will say that I do not always agree with things that Cingular, much less other large companies do, but they do it for a reason. They are not dumb. They have VERY smart and educated people that decide what is best for the company. Just because they don't always outline the reason to you, the sales rep doesn't mean that it is a "stupid" business move. They don't just decide, "hey, I think that I will make half of our 50+ million customers mad and make them go into stores and yell at our reps!"
Point is that they do this for THIS VERY REASON! Cingular made rollover, and they ...
(continues)
Point is that they do this for THIS VERY REASON! Cingular made rollover, and they ...
(continues)
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The complaint is that the policy is gay, not stupid. Get it right man 😁
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DANG! Now it all makes sense...
Oh no wait, it's still just as ignorant. 🤣
Great minds think alike texas! 😉
Oh no wait, it's still just as ignorant. 🤣
Great minds think alike texas! 😉
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Don't know if anyone posted this yet or not, it's late, and I really don't want to read all of them now, but...
Why not just set him up on a seperate account? I used to have 2 or 3 accounts under my name. He would've been able to keep his minutes, and the other line could build up or do whatever he wants to do. Suprised you didn't think of that, that's the first thing that came to my mind.
Why not just set him up on a seperate account? I used to have 2 or 3 accounts under my name. He would've been able to keep his minutes, and the other line could build up or do whatever he wants to do. Suprised you didn't think of that, that's the first thing that came to my mind.
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19,000 Rollover minutes? That's almost 1600 unused minutes a month. Who in their right mind signs up for a plan with that many minutes and then never uses them?
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Somebody who was put on the wrong plan in the first place and told by an unscrupulous sales rep that they could save up minutes for a few months and then move down to a smaller plan than what they needed because they'd have all those rollover minutes to use?
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