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Rebut to Whitehorse: Rights and freedoms. Long, but stay with me.

ZombieJ

Feb 13, 2006, 3:12 AM
Ok. I really want you to sit down and think about what you type next time. I assure you I get my information from every source, but the difference being I make my decisions based on facts, not partisan beliefs. In the last 8 years I have voted at every end of the political spectrum (I voted Conservative in the last provincial election for example). I have no political affiliation and belong to no political party or subscribe to any one party doctrine. My political leanings are to the left, especially when it comes to social policies. The reason being the left is the biggest defender of the rights and freedoms of all, not just some. And no, I'm not going to come with the 'your an insane right winger argument", because I don't need to. I'm goi...
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alejandro

Feb 13, 2006, 12:08 PM
when someone makes an accusation about something they know nothing about, they rarely want to re-visit the conversation and show actually how little they know, left or right, dont expect an answer.
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ZombieJ

Feb 13, 2006, 12:21 PM
either way, I doubt he has the attention span to read through the whole post.
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alejandro

Feb 13, 2006, 12:30 PM
It's a good point, i really do not understand the NRA one single bit, they use that whole defend against the government thing, but the NRA is the government, the 1st ammendment belongs to liberals, the 2nd belongs to conservatives, but conservatives just cannot see that not only do they not stand a chance against the government, but they also lay down on the job to anything done by a conservative government, the NRA is the government, Its speakers are the government. They are beholden to the government, and the government only depends on them for votes, once every couple of years, and even then, those people wouldnt vote for anyone regardless of their stance on any issue, they only look for an (R) next to their name, just like most democrats...
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ZombieJ

Feb 13, 2006, 1:09 PM
It's no wonder they are able to perpetuate lies and half truths with such ease when they put forward "studies" like this one as 'fact':

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060209-121824- ... »
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alejandro

Feb 13, 2006, 1:11 PM
hahahaha! an opinion poll to measure crime in countries!

hahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahah ahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha ahhahahahahahahahahahah
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ZombieJ

Feb 13, 2006, 1:15 PM
I'm dead serious man. Thats right off the main page of nra.org under the title of, "Americans See Less Crime Than Britons, Canadians". You just cannot give any credit to these people.
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alejandro

Feb 13, 2006, 1:19 PM
Well, Its not the NRA that did the study (i actually wrote stupid and had to go back to correct it) or created the story, but they did pick it up as soon as they saw it, because like to lie to people too.... i feel sorry for the person who tries to use that poll against me in an actual debate.
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Whitehorse

Feb 16, 2006, 12:10 AM
Yep, it's a poll by the Gallup organization, no friend of the NRA... That poll would be only one piece of a mountain of ammo (no pun really intended) that I would use in a debate with anyone regarding this subject...
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alejandro

Feb 16, 2006, 3:11 PM
That would be mis-leading and since we are telling you this over and over, would ammount to lying, when using it as fact.
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Whitehorse

Feb 13, 2006, 2:57 PM
I enjoy debating issues, though I can see that the personal attacks & disparagment against me have already started in the cozy little canversation that you & alejandro are having. Attack all you want, I could truthfully care less what you - who have not met me - think of me.

You do have some great points for discussion, though the post above does tend to ramble a bit. With my actually being @ work, I will not have the time to devote to this, however I'll come back over the next 2 days - when I'm off - & reply in an attempt to discuss issues & points. I've got to take my poor ol' mom in for a medical procedure in the morning, so don't get too giddy if I've not replied by tomorrow evening... Wink
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ZombieJ

Feb 13, 2006, 3:23 PM
There is quite a bit of info there to wade through, so no pressure on a prompt reply.

Also myself and alejandro break off on tangents and digressions on pretty much a thread by thread basis. Take no offense to it.
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Whitehorse

Feb 13, 2006, 7:10 PM
No problem, I enjoy it, even a few personal jabs here & there. I really enjoy discussing these issues with those who can like a sentence or two together - agree with me or not.

We're pretty busy here in insurance tech support land, so I'll get back with this tomorrow or Wed...
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alejandro

Feb 16, 2006, 5:24 PM
if you will read what i said carefully, they did only attack you as an afterthought, if you would pay attention i was criticizing both parties and the general political participation of the average american.
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Whitehorse

Feb 16, 2006, 12:06 AM
Good post, though a little unnecessarily adversarial @ times. I guess our main bone of contention is in ¡§civilian¡¨ or ¡§proletariat¡¨ or ¡§regular people¡¦s¡¨ ownership of firearms. I stand by my belief that armed citizens are free; both from oppression in government & from criminals. Mountains of statistics exist that can be interpreted to support this assertion, as well are there studies & statistics that can be interpreted to support citizen disarmament. In the US the right to keep & bear arms by the individual citizen is a civil right. The framing of the argument in this country is now changing to realize that it is a civil right, like freedom of speech, etc¡K

In the US, the armed citizenry forms a second layer of def...
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alejandro

Feb 16, 2006, 2:41 PM
First of all your entire post is filled with garbage, it looks like you plagiarized the whole thing or at best you took 3 whole days to type it in an incompatible version of word.

Second, paragraphs 1 through 3 are based upon an unhealthy fascination with war in a world of relative calm, you claim to ready yourself for war with the government but you lay down to every trampling of civil liberties, in actuality if that were the case the NRA would be side by side with the ACLU, and while the ACLU has fought several cases for the freedom of gun owners, every time the ACLU is mentioned on fox all the NRA members are complaining about the "Commie ***s" Conservatives police the country but second amendment champions are not affected as long as ...
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Whitehorse

Feb 16, 2006, 4:31 PM
Dear, young, alejandro...

So, Word 2003 professional, put some acsii in there. I like Word, didn't take the stuff out, will use a plain text editor in the future so you will be pleased. As far as taking 3 whole days - I have a life outside of the internet & have to attend to it every so often. Plus, responding to specious arguments like those against a law abiding citizens right to self defense doesn't take that much effort...

You may pull whatever conclusion you wish from whatever orifice you wish to pull it. My writing style is consistent, I can only assume the sputtering accusations of plagarism are because you're not used to someone destroying your arguments with fact after fact after fact. I have the ability to use these things ca...
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alejandro

Feb 16, 2006, 5:05 PM
I had to wrap up my ending because someone came up to talk to me, you will excuse if it was not more in depth, but if you indeed were taking a 3 day vacation you would not need to create a file on your desktop to work on for 3 days. Your argument was not fact at all, it was all opinion, as was my rebuttal (aside from the fact that percentages of crime without real numbers are mis-leading, that is fact).

Your opinion was through the hostile action against your government, as far as i have been told that is against the law. Shooting a cop in self defense does not "happen" in this country.

When I said garbage I was talking about your ascii, I refered to it as such twice, whos fragile physche is damaged again? And for the third time today...
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Whitehorse

Feb 17, 2006, 2:30 PM
Ok, I had mistaken your garbage comment, mea culpa, please accept my apologies. Ok, felt like poop yesterday & maybe my psyche was a bit more vulnerable than normal... Wink
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ZombieJ

Feb 16, 2006, 6:56 PM
Ok, I literally just got out of bed, it's 7:30pm Atlantic time. I know, I know, I'm lazy. As a result I have to get ready for work for 9:30 then go suffer through a 12 hour back shift (4 glorious days off starting tomorrow!) I won't need all 3 days, probably only 20 minutes, to disprove all of this so I'll do so in the morning.

Also, don't take offense to the sometimes adversarial nature of my posts. I write as a flow of consciousness and in the heat of the moment, not in word over the course of 3 days. My next post will be more gentile, I swear.
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Whitehorse

Feb 16, 2006, 10:01 PM
Laughing No problem, take your time, look forward to discussing this with you as you can. The only reason I point out adversarial nature is to make my kindness & decorum seem so much better... Very Happy
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JimmyTaliban

Nov 21, 2011, 12:35 PM
ZombieJ said:
Also, don't take offense to the sometimes adversarial nature of my posts. I write as a flow of consciousness and in the heat of the moment, not in word over the course of 3 days. My next post will be more gentile, I swear.


Apologist
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miasma

Nov 29, 2011, 12:56 PM
Whatever brah
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