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To the California dealers and sales reps...

justfinethanku

Sep 28, 2010, 6:48 PM
Ok, try to follow me on this one.

Cell phone carriers subsidize phones through the monthly bill, essentially the customer is paying for their phone over time.

California taxes the hell out of those monthly bills.

California also makes consumers pay tax on the full retail value of the phone, regardless of what price they are paying for the phone at time of activation.


How is this kind of double-taxing legal?
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speedywalk

Sep 28, 2010, 8:13 PM
but I don't see any double-taxation.

One is product one is service
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justfinethanku

Sep 28, 2010, 8:18 PM
Not if the service has the price of the product included.

This can easily be demonstrated through tmobiles even more and even more plus plans. The company doesn't charge you a monthly subsidy fee if you purchase the phone outright.
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wdfichtel

Sep 29, 2010, 8:17 AM
But the problem is you are not being charged a subsidy fee, you are being charged a higher cost rate plan which is being taxed appropriately. The real issue is California charging the tax on the full price of the phone in the first place, and where the double taxation comes in. It's not the tax over the course of the bill, as this would be the same in any state.
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justfinethanku

Sep 29, 2010, 8:51 AM
It would be the same in every state, save the exception mentioned here. Technically the phone is payed for through the monthly bill, if the state of California is taxing both the monthly bill AND the full retail cost of the phone you are being double taxed.

I just can't believe no one has filed suit over this. It blew my mind when I found out.
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phyxlor

Sep 29, 2010, 9:03 AM
thats because its California... theyre SOoooo special... its a great place to visit, but i dont think id Ever live there! ive got enough miles of beaches and over paied richies here in Florida! (and NO earthquakes, thank you!)
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juggalo D

Sep 29, 2010, 3:40 PM
yeah just hurricanes
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jmalo

Sep 29, 2010, 1:00 PM
Ahhh so you are saying with EIP then I take it?
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DartStuticus

Oct 2, 2010, 2:01 PM
Where are they being double taxed? I haven't seen a T-Mobile bill but I look at sprint bills all day long and I've yet to see anything that mentions a charge for subsidized pricing. People haven't filed lawsuits because they wouldn't hold up in court. Knowing something and proving it are two different things.

Though maybe if people actually understood how subsidized pricing works they may act less stupid. I doubt it but one can always hope.
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justfinethanku

Oct 2, 2010, 2:44 PM
at the point of sale.

Even if you get a free phone, at the point of sale you have to pay tax on the full retail value of the phone, not what you actually paid.

The phone is subsidized through the plan, and you are paying taxes on your monthly bill.

point being, if you have to pay tax on you're bill, which in part covers the cost of the phone, why are you paying tax at the point of sale as well?

As far as I know this happens only in California.
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ZumiezEastCoast

Oct 2, 2010, 2:49 PM
if I'm correct they charge the device as a separate transaction so I'm guessing thats where there taxing for the device and service came from, no "double taxing". Eh?
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DartStuticus

Oct 2, 2010, 3:38 PM
Carriers don't make up money from subsidized pricing from the plan, they make it up from you being an A plan month over month when you sign a contract. Your argument is only valid if someone offers a "non subsidised" version of the same plan but forces you onto a higher plan.

I see where your going with your argument, but you are leaving out some key details.
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mexican putoz

Oct 2, 2010, 4:40 PM
this is because California people sued for the ETF and cell phone companies decided to ask for this tax thing as a law and it was approved that is why sprint changed to the -10.00 every month proration for ETF.
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guitarhero73

Oct 9, 2010, 7:20 PM
I had a guy call in a couple days ago about that and wanted credit back on his taxes. He blamed Sprint and thought we were making profit off that. I explained it to him and then it got escalated to my sup who told him the same thing.

It's not something the cell phone company can fix. Better to go to your local tax assessor to see about making any change.
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Amarantamin

Sep 28, 2010, 8:20 PM
Example: Buy a phone through Sprint for $50.00, and on the bill the phone will show around $62 to account for taxes on the phone purchase. On top of this tax, the normal monthly taxes are made higher because the phone purchase increases the total cost of the bill. So essentially there's a tax on the phone purchase itself, and then a second tax because the phone purchase makes the bill higher than normal.
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DarkStar

Oct 6, 2010, 12:59 PM
How does the phone purchase raise the monthly cost of the plan?
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justfinethanku

Oct 6, 2010, 2:19 PM
The phone is SUBSIDIZED BY THE CARRIER AND PAID FOR THROUGH THE MONTHLY BILL.

My head is going to explode.

Not your fault man, but seriously, I can't believe that no one in this thread seems to realize that one simple fact.

Carriers explain away the high cost of the bill through phone subsadies.

Why would you need to pay a "cost recovery" aka cancellation fee if the cost of the phone wasn't worked into the bill???
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The 1

Oct 6, 2010, 3:01 PM
high cost of the bill explained by phone subsadies? The cancellation fees are justified because you get a discount on the phone at purchase. this is why they dont apply if you pay retail price to upgrade your phone.

I have never in all my time since having a phone have heard anyone but this thread say phone bills are high because of phone discounts. This would mean if I pay retail my phone bill will be cheaper.
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DarkStar

Oct 6, 2010, 3:03 PM
Exactly the ETF is what they use to recover the cost of the subsidy. The monthly price you pay is for the company to make money. If you pay for the phone at full retail price you aren't getting a discount for the monthly plan. So what fee is imposed on the monthly plan that we are paying that pays for the subsidy for the phone?
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Mr. Scary

Sep 29, 2010, 6:11 AM
The way anything is legal. It's legalized through the legalization process.
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justfinethanku

Sep 29, 2010, 6:50 AM
Exellent contribution to an otherwise grown-up conversation...
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ecycled

Sep 29, 2010, 9:26 AM
Mr. Scary said:
The way anything is legal. It's legalized through the legalization process.


Likewise, conversely, something is illegalized through the legalization process.
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Ask The Shack

Sep 29, 2010, 7:45 AM
It's the same way with your car. If you buy a new car, you have to pay sales tax on it, then you have to pay a registration fee.

Ever wonder why you need to "renew" your registration every year or 2? It's more or less a property tax, but for your car. Think about it, if your car is registered once, and the driver never changes with it, why does it have to be "renewed".

Welcome to America, bend over, because we're going to get your money. One way, or the other.
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justfinethanku

Sep 29, 2010, 8:54 AM
I totally agree with you.

My only problem is that citing other injustices doesn't make the current injustice OK, it only adds to the idea that our government is made up of thieves.

This crap needs to stop.
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ZumiezEastCoast

Sep 30, 2010, 5:20 PM
justfinethanku said:
it only adds to the idea that our government is made up of thieves.


please please educate me how a state taxing something has to do with the government? ha ha think about it.

yes i don't agree with the so called "double taxing" but i don't see how a state doing this can be pointed at the government?
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justfinethanku

Sep 30, 2010, 5:30 PM
but i don't see how a state doing this can be pointed at the government?


I think you are mistaking federal government for state government... both are forms of government, and both are run by criminals.
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ZumiezEastCoast

Sep 30, 2010, 5:42 PM
im just being smart Drooling but more or less saying to be more specific cause it didnt sound logical that government had a part to do with it.
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The 1

Sep 30, 2010, 6:22 PM
I pay state and federal taxes!
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NEPats726420

Sep 29, 2010, 11:00 AM
you pay yearly property taxes on your car, plus registration every 2 years
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sinister

Sep 29, 2010, 10:41 AM
justfine? why are you complainin...more than likely you voted, so you basically accept all the bs that's put out there. when you vote you give someone else the power to make decisions for you & you willingly accept that whatever decision that person makes is going to benefit you. guess what? go ahead & reach that long leg of yours around to your backside & kick yourself in the butt!! *doh* Laughing

call me unpatriotic & i will definitely be that...i don't like being like the rest of the sheep & just blindly be guided where the wolf in shepherds clothing directs me. Cool
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justfinethanku

Sep 29, 2010, 10:50 AM
Smile
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sinister

Sep 29, 2010, 11:18 AM
sokay...i voted tom jones Very Happy
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