Shop Talk
I dont know how they do it where you are from...
I had this lady about two months back... I'd like to call her something else but we'll just call her customer. she was looking for a phone for her father who had broken his...she was not eligible for upgrade and was of coarse speechless when she was told what a new phone would cost her outright.
I told her she could buy a pre-paid phone and it would work just the same, she may notice a little difference in her coverage, but not much. To which she replied "that's okay, it just for emergencies anyway" (they always are right?)
About 27 days down the road she comes in and wants to exchange becuase the screen wont work, to which i replied "Absolutely, let's take a look" After looking at the phone it became obvious this phone had been damaged as...
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I told her she could buy a pre-paid phone and it would work just the same, she may notice a little difference in her coverage, but not much. To which she replied "that's okay, it just for emergencies anyway" (they always are right?)
About 27 days down the road she comes in and wants to exchange becuase the screen wont work, to which i replied "Absolutely, let's take a look" After looking at the phone it became obvious this phone had been damaged as...
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She should complain about you. Prepaid phones aren't meant to be sold for use on postpaid service.
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Nah, but they work in a bind. In any case, she had allready heard that at another location as well... And this has nothing to do with her breaking it.
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my last comment was to Ralph and his comment. She said she needed something and she got something not our fault she's careless. If she doesn't care Y should u?
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How about no?
The customer shouldve had insurance. She didn't, so it was her fault. At that point, she shouldve paid the full retail price for a new phone.
This is my job. It's crappy, but I do it well. I know what I can and can't do, and I do it very ethically. I won't break policy just because a customer whines and throws a fit. All that accomplishes is making her more difficult for the next rep who has to deal with her. I won't rip them off, and I won't let them rip off my employer.
Don't whine because you can't take the heat. You know what should and shouldn't be done, and when you bend it shows your character as lacking. If you feel the need to make the customer a deal because you feel sorry for them, then do it without ripping...
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The customer shouldve had insurance. She didn't, so it was her fault. At that point, she shouldve paid the full retail price for a new phone.
This is my job. It's crappy, but I do it well. I know what I can and can't do, and I do it very ethically. I won't break policy just because a customer whines and throws a fit. All that accomplishes is making her more difficult for the next rep who has to deal with her. I won't rip them off, and I won't let them rip off my employer.
Don't whine because you can't take the heat. You know what should and shouldn't be done, and when you bend it shows your character as lacking. If you feel the need to make the customer a deal because you feel sorry for them, then do it without ripping...
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She showed up wanting a phone. We sell phones. If she wanted to use that phone with a postpaid line, that's up to her. If she wanted to display it on her mantle, that would be up to her aswell. Ethics has nothing to do with this. It's quite simple. Phone desired, phone bought, phone broken. So, get off your high horse.
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She came in wanting a phone to use for postpaid service, and you sold her something else. Is that salesmanship or just unethical? I can tell this is a grey area for you and it's not my job to define it for you. You can ask your RAE's opinion on it, and if they're fine with you doing it, it's their call.
The devil's in the details though, and I'm not arguing that she was a moron and trying to scam you, but that's all the more reason to sell her a higher quality phone. I see customers using prepaid phones on postpaid lines all the time, and you can bet it gets forwarded on to the ones responsible.
The devil's in the details though, and I'm not arguing that she was a moron and trying to scam you, but that's all the more reason to sell her a higher quality phone. I see customers using prepaid phones on postpaid lines all the time, and you can bet it gets forwarded on to the ones responsible.
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It's not my definition. You sell for AT&T, and in their view that's fraud. You're lucky you have you haven't been caught yet.
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Actually, it is not fraud. We are forbidden to activate a pre-paid packaged phone for regular service. We are NOT forbidden to sell Pre-Paid phones at retail price. If you read my prior posting, the customer can do what they wish with the phone.
Furthermore, you rant that we are screwing our company over, which we are not. We sold the pre-paid phone above our cost, which in the real world, makes money for the company.
Furthermore, you rant that we are screwing our company over, which we are not. We sold the pre-paid phone above our cost, which in the real world, makes money for the company.
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We won't take ur advice for being a salesman because if u were a good salesmen u would do whatever to keep the customer with the company. If he didn't sell her a phone because he was a heartless uptight salemen like u and the customer would have ported out what would ur point be then? ur job is to make the company money not push it away.
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Ralph,
If you derive your personal code of ethics from the policies of some s#!tbag wireless company (let's be honest, they ALL are), then it is you who has the issues. Azul may have broken policy or whatever, but he assisted the customer. If the company has to take a short-term hit to retain a customer long-term then so be it. That is the foundation of our capitalist economy. You have to spend money to make money.
On a more positive note-- You seem like real-deal CEO material, my man: All company, no customer. You'd fit right in with the rest of them.
If you derive your personal code of ethics from the policies of some s#!tbag wireless company (let's be honest, they ALL are), then it is you who has the issues. Azul may have broken policy or whatever, but he assisted the customer. If the company has to take a short-term hit to retain a customer long-term then so be it. That is the foundation of our capitalist economy. You have to spend money to make money.
On a more positive note-- You seem like real-deal CEO material, my man: All company, no customer. You'd fit right in with the rest of them.
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What both of you are talking about is defrauding the company that pays your wages. That's as good as stealing. What I care about is doing what is right, I'm not the "anything to make a buck" guy. If you cared about the customer you would've taken the hit on the sale personally rather than pass it on to your employer. Sadly, that would've affected your commission so you don't see that happening.
I'm the guy sticking it out for equal wages. I'm the guy making sure even the little man has his say. I'm the guy fighting for every employee past, present and future to ensure they have a livable wage. You're the ones only looking out for yourself.
I'm the guy sticking it out for equal wages. I'm the guy making sure even the little man has his say. I'm the guy fighting for every employee past, present and future to ensure they have a livable wage. You're the ones only looking out for yourself.
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ralph_on_me said:
What both of you are talking about is defrauding the company that pays your wages. That's as good as stealing.
Just like jaywalking is a good as vehicular homocide, I mean, it's still a crime...
If you cared about the customer you would've taken the hit on the sale personally rather than pass it on to your employer. Sadly, that would've affected your commission so you don't see that happening.
I work in a call center for a fixed wage, I am loyal to the highest bidder, and right now my job is to take care of the customer. If that means sending them to Wal-Mart for a PAYG phone then so be it. I will not proactively offer it as a solution, but if they ask ...
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Oh and damn near $30.00 for a SIM card? Are you joking? You bet your ass I'll send my customer to a COR store to get a free SIM. And I'll waive any number change fee the first time for a customer.
God damn, I'm a customer MANIAC!!!!
God damn, I'm a customer MANIAC!!!!
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You're a perfect example of the break down of corporate ethics.
Furthermore, your assumptions of my opinion of the corporate ladder are misplaced. Mistreatment by an employer isn't an excuse for you to do a poor job. What it is, is an excuse for you to look for a new job or do something to change your current one. My ethics are uncompromising.
Furthermore, your assumptions of my opinion of the corporate ladder are misplaced. Mistreatment by an employer isn't an excuse for you to do a poor job. What it is, is an excuse for you to look for a new job or do something to change your current one. My ethics are uncompromising.
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MauiBuilt said:
You have to spend money to make money.
Correct. Tell the lady full retail.
Then add insurance. If she's on a low tier plan,there is VERY LITTLE PROFIT. Profit pays wages, taxes, etc.
Y'all need to rethink your short-sightedness on this one. The lady knew what the consequences were. She was the one lying about the return. I'd rather work for a company making a profit than one with a bunch of slap-happy customers while the company is bleeding to death.
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To sidestep policy, if the customer completely balks at in store prices, I then tell them they could purchase a prepaid and use it on a post paid account. I will not sell it to them and only tell them if they are about to walk out. I do warn them that it is a frowned upon practice and that they will not get a warranty on the device.
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I've seen too many people with suspended accounts to ever even bring it up. If a customer asks I say, "You could put your SIM card into it, and it would work until they find you using that device and suspend your service." People yell at me enough already, I'm certainly not going to give them just cause to yell at me by sellling them something which causes their account to be suspended.
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Ralph,
First off I work with CDMA, so I don't know how they feel about people using prepaid phones as their phones. But just like they're paying for the contracted phone they paid for those prepaid phones also it's a win win situation. At the end of the day there's no churn because she's going to stay a regular customer and her bill will be paid. Also how is it looking out for ourselves if I don't get anything for seLling just the prepaid phone? I'm helping the customer they walk out the store happy and honestly in my company that's all that counts. If we have to discount an accessory to make the customer stay with the company I've seen it happen it will be done.
I don't agree with this saying but ur talking ethics, this is retail the...
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First off I work with CDMA, so I don't know how they feel about people using prepaid phones as their phones. But just like they're paying for the contracted phone they paid for those prepaid phones also it's a win win situation. At the end of the day there's no churn because she's going to stay a regular customer and her bill will be paid. Also how is it looking out for ourselves if I don't get anything for seLling just the prepaid phone? I'm helping the customer they walk out the store happy and honestly in my company that's all that counts. If we have to discount an accessory to make the customer stay with the company I've seen it happen it will be done.
I don't agree with this saying but ur talking ethics, this is retail the...
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What I'm talking about probably only applies to Agents. If you work directly for the carrier in sales, it's probably different. Everything else is different, so why not this too?
What applies across the board is that prepaid plans are generally more expensive than postpaid plans when you break it down per minute. They make profit on both plans, but it's a higher profit per minute on prepaid. This is offset of course by the cost of equipment. They can and pretty much have to sell prepaid phones below their cost.
There are arguable issues involving quality, but the main point is the Agent Agreement. The carrier sells this merchandise to their Agents at a loss to themselves. The carrier will never make a profit off selling that equipment...
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What applies across the board is that prepaid plans are generally more expensive than postpaid plans when you break it down per minute. They make profit on both plans, but it's a higher profit per minute on prepaid. This is offset of course by the cost of equipment. They can and pretty much have to sell prepaid phones below their cost.
There are arguable issues involving quality, but the main point is the Agent Agreement. The carrier sells this merchandise to their Agents at a loss to themselves. The carrier will never make a profit off selling that equipment...
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thread of the month.
We're gonna have to agree with ralph on this one. The point he made was very clear. Even our company forbids us to recommend or sell a prepaid phone to be used on a postpaid account. Consequences of doing such may involve termination. I can go into detail and explain more about the ethics and screwing the hand that signs your checks but i see that it has already been covered, so no need to reiterate.
We're gonna have to agree with ralph on this one. The point he made was very clear. Even our company forbids us to recommend or sell a prepaid phone to be used on a postpaid account. Consequences of doing such may involve termination. I can go into detail and explain more about the ethics and screwing the hand that signs your checks but i see that it has already been covered, so no need to reiterate.
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true but its in the company's better interest to just let them do that and continue raking in cash on their plan usage instead of risk having them terminate. They alwasy make more money off plans than phones anyway, cell phone companies usually dont have much of a markup on phones, but huge markups on how much "minutes" and "texts" cost compared to how much they actualy charge for them.
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THANK YOU! Finally atleast somebody else can see it from the other point of view.
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You've got the concept, but let me clarify the problem.
The companys do make more money off of service and there is usually little markup on phone sales. Hell, we all know phones are sold below cost on contracted service because they'll more than make up the difference with service and ETFs.
Phones that are packaged and marketed for prepaid services, however, are marked DOWN to entice more users to buy and service is generally more expensive than contracted plans to make up the difference. They're essentially a loss leader. That concept isn't really a bad one either, but here's where the problem comes in.
In the case of an agent, they buy their merchandise from the carrier. The carrier took the hit on the Prepaid Phone before they ...
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The companys do make more money off of service and there is usually little markup on phone sales. Hell, we all know phones are sold below cost on contracted service because they'll more than make up the difference with service and ETFs.
Phones that are packaged and marketed for prepaid services, however, are marked DOWN to entice more users to buy and service is generally more expensive than contracted plans to make up the difference. They're essentially a loss leader. That concept isn't really a bad one either, but here's where the problem comes in.
In the case of an agent, they buy their merchandise from the carrier. The carrier took the hit on the Prepaid Phone before they ...
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It's not forbidden because the company is losing money, they aren't losing money. It's forbidden because they want to avoid any and all unwanted, unintended churn. It is easier for them to forbid it outright then it is for them to allow any grey area and then have to police the issue on a case by case basis. Kind of like how drinking in public is illegal. Sure, there are many people who can handle their drink, but because there are people who cannot, they just outlaw it outright for everyone. No grey area.
My argument is not that I'm suggesting breaking policy is somehow not breaking policy, because I know very clearly that I'm condoning breaking policy, but rather that breaking policy in this case benefits the customer and as a consequence...
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My argument is not that I'm suggesting breaking policy is somehow not breaking policy, because I know very clearly that I'm condoning breaking policy, but rather that breaking policy in this case benefits the customer and as a consequence...
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There's a REASON it's a policy NOT to do it. I'm sure if it actually made the company money, then it would not be against policy. Remember, the primary goal of a business these days is to make as much money as possible. The reason the policy exists is because in the long run, you hurt the company by breaking it's policies. They're there for a reason.
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The village idiots.
let's look at get some:
Even our company forbids us to recommend or sell a prepaid phone to be used on a postpaid account.
Company wants to pad their profits. The prepaid phone solution works. So while you try to upsell people, you basically are just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la...I dont hear you" when a customer has a genuine problem.
Consequences of doing such may involve termination.
Good. If you only focus on that one sale, you are a piss poor salesman. And you can take your manager with you.
I can go into detail and explain more about the ethics and screwing the hand that signs your checks but i see that it has already been covered, so no need to reiterate.
Ag...
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let's look at get some:
Even our company forbids us to recommend or sell a prepaid phone to be used on a postpaid account.
Company wants to pad their profits. The prepaid phone solution works. So while you try to upsell people, you basically are just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la...I dont hear you" when a customer has a genuine problem.
Consequences of doing such may involve termination.
Good. If you only focus on that one sale, you are a piss poor salesman. And you can take your manager with you.
I can go into detail and explain more about the ethics and screwing the hand that signs your checks but i see that it has already been covered, so no need to reiterate.
Ag...
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Lying and poor customer service?
"Hi Pot, I'm Kettle."
So far we're one of the only ones telling the truth here. The majority of posts here are an attempt to justify an abuse of position.
As far as poor customer service, how is selling someone a device that probably won't last for more than a few months and that will be shut off by the carrier poor service? I've seen a lot of pissed off customers because their phone was suspended or the earpiece stopped working on a prepaid device. They're far more satisfied with the quality of postpaid equipment than prepaid. Isn't that what service is all about?
This job is about the long term sale, or at least it should be. The short term sale, such as your mcdonalds example, is far more suit...
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"Hi Pot, I'm Kettle."
So far we're one of the only ones telling the truth here. The majority of posts here are an attempt to justify an abuse of position.
As far as poor customer service, how is selling someone a device that probably won't last for more than a few months and that will be shut off by the carrier poor service? I've seen a lot of pissed off customers because their phone was suspended or the earpiece stopped working on a prepaid device. They're far more satisfied with the quality of postpaid equipment than prepaid. Isn't that what service is all about?
This job is about the long term sale, or at least it should be. The short term sale, such as your mcdonalds example, is far more suit...
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Agreed with ralph once again.
AND you can call us "piss poor" but i beg to differ. We can go into numbers and say that i work at the highest grossing store in my market and have been consistent in making above quota. AS WELL AS achieving nothing but highest VOC scores possible BUT i wouldn't do that because it just simply takes away from the subject at hand.
That is all.
AND you can call us "piss poor" but i beg to differ. We can go into numbers and say that i work at the highest grossing store in my market and have been consistent in making above quota. AS WELL AS achieving nothing but highest VOC scores possible BUT i wouldn't do that because it just simply takes away from the subject at hand.
That is all.
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One thing not pointed out here is that there is NO warranty on a prepaid phone being used on a postpaid account. Warranty exchange will not honor it. By selling someone a prepaid phone and not informing them of this you are doing them a disservice. It is against AT&T's policy to use a prepaid on a post paid account. Hence the lack of warranty.
I can see that this didn't come into issue in this situation, but to others it could be a big deal. Buy a $100 prepaid flip phone without a one year warranty or a $100 postpaid candy bar with a one year warranty and potential for insurance(which the customer obviously needs).
I would say the second option is better for the customer, in my opinion.
I can see that this didn't come into issue in this situation, but to others it could be a big deal. Buy a $100 prepaid flip phone without a one year warranty or a $100 postpaid candy bar with a one year warranty and potential for insurance(which the customer obviously needs).
I would say the second option is better for the customer, in my opinion.
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you say the latter option is the best but yet you still recommend the first if "they are about to walk out". That goes against what is considered ethical from the company. But who knows....
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All I can do is try to impress upon them the best option. To me that is a post paid phone. If they have twenty dollars to their name, I can't make them buy a postpaid phone. I then ask if they know anyone with an old phone left over after an upgrade. If not, then I let them know they can use a prepaid device, but it it frowned upon and let them know the hazards of that route. I do not suggest it, but I don't see it as unethical to inform a customer. I'm not selling it to them myself or profiting in any way of it's use.
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The way I deal with the whole situation is that I let the customer use their own intellect and connect the dots themselves. I tell them that I'm very sorry but they're going to have to pay the retail value for the phone in the store. I let them know this is the best option...full retail and insurance...if they don't bite on that one I suggest, "hey if you don't want to pay so much you could probably get a phone from a friend and put your SIM card in, or buy a phone off ebay, but it is a risk". At this point they realize that they can put their SIM in to any same carrier or unlocked GSM phone. When they were looking at those prepaids earlier and you got that question, "why is this one cheaper than this one" oh because that's prepaid...I ...
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i have to agree with this guy. just b/c the cust doesnt want to pay the price for a new phone is no reason for you to put your job at risk nor is it a reason to undercut the company, be it corporate or your agent, by selling them something that isnt going to be used for its intended purpose.
one day customers may learn that cell phones arent cheap and the insurance is worth it, but as long as they can weasel out deals like this or even better ones, they will not learn because there is no necessity. as long as they think that they can pull one over on us, they will keep trying. and this isnt a point of ethics, its a point of policy. if the policy is that a prepaid device cannot be activated on a postpaid accnt, then it is that way for a rea...
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one day customers may learn that cell phones arent cheap and the insurance is worth it, but as long as they can weasel out deals like this or even better ones, they will not learn because there is no necessity. as long as they think that they can pull one over on us, they will keep trying. and this isnt a point of ethics, its a point of policy. if the policy is that a prepaid device cannot be activated on a postpaid accnt, then it is that way for a rea...
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as long as the IMEI is registered to the phone number through usage they have to honor the warranty.
The only thing they wont honor is multiple activations/phone numbers on a pre-paid.
The people can and do get away with this.
The only thing they wont honor is multiple activations/phone numbers on a pre-paid.
The people can and do get away with this.
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