ACTUALLY... if a customer comes to cingular from attws, then cancel and don't go back to attws and fulfill that contract, they WILL be charged the ETF on the attws side. There really isn't a real way to get out of your contract unless somehow you slip through the cracks...

So you are saying a customer with an existing ATTWS contract can migrate to cingular and cancel within 30 days without penalty, thereby effectively getting out of his ATTWS contract?

Sorry buddy, that is not accurate.

I used to work for the retention team buddy...
If you have access to CSP i suggest you type in Cancellation procedures...it's says it plain as day.

If customer cancels within 30 days and returns equipment no ETF will be charged regardless if customer had prexisting contract with at&t

thanks for trying.

And that makes what you say gold?

When searching "cancellation procedures" on CSP there is no document anywhere that states a customer is not reverse migrated back (or any variation of this situation) to their blue account and required to fulfill their contract should they choose within 30 days to cancel their new orange account.

There is info that if a new customer cancels within 30 days they are released from their termination fee. The key here is "new" customer, not a migration customer.

I would hope working for the retention team you understand the difference between new activation and a migration customer.

If you were not so dense you would read further...if you want when i get back to work i'll show you the exact path to get there..

Texas you shouldnt talk down to people when you dont know everything yourself...

and this is exactly what i meant about not paying an etf...

A customer migrating to cingular from at&t has 30 days to decide whether or not they want to stay with the company...IF they decide to cancel their account w/n these 30 days they are not obligated to either their at&t or their cingular contract...

I should know b/c we had a huge email about this back in January from our director and area managers.

Furthermore it does specifically site the situation with blue customers...

I will be looking forward to an apolo...
(continues)

Whatever man. Several people on here with whom I have met OUTSIDE this forum tell me otherwise.

And before you get too big of a bruised ego, perhaps you need to consider if we are both quoting accurate policy to our respective regions.

If you are indeed from a different region I am definately willing to say that this policy may be only something done in this area and the areas of those I have discussed this situation.

Cancellation procedures regarding the 30 day allowance are not region based..basically the only difference now b/w regions is whether or not your early termination fee is flat 150 or prorated.

So then everyone on here who has stated otherwise and the CSP info is incorrect.

I, also, cannot find any link on CSP about what you're referring to.

When i get back to work i will be more than happy to help "guide" you in your search for my statement...

I also want to bring up a key point here some people have different access to csp..

for example members of the retention team have more access to cancellation information than regular representatives..they also have access to forms in csp and so on...

This may be another reason you are unable to find it.

I just got an email from my account exec reaffirming they would have a $175 ETF. I'll go by that when addressing customer inquiries.

Ralph/Texas are correct (not that they needed my approval/agreement to know that 😁 ), if a customer migrates over and then decides to cancel within the 30 days, Cingular will do what they call a reverse migration, if the customer does not wish that, they are charged they ETf that went with their ATT contract, i double checked just to make sure, and asked a Retention manager where i work who verified that that is correct.

Believe what you want...once i get back to work i will show you csp challenged folks..exactly how to get to the policy on the situation in question here...


To be honest from my own experience..90% of the retention managers you will talk to will know less than your average retention rep..and that pretty much goes for every other position in any call center b/c it's not your manager's job to know the in's & out's it's their job to make sure you are doing that.

And as far as account executives go...i've cleaned up enough of their re-rates on the accuracy team to know better than to trust their word.

Ralph who do you think the migrated customer talks to when he is wanting to cancel his now Cingular account?...your account executive? no

He speaks with the retention team...who CAN offer a reverse migration if the customer wants but we cannot force it upon them...

The whole reason i am so adamant about clarifying this is b/c there is no clause in our terms and conditions that state a customer HAS to go back to AT&T if they want to cancel within their 30 days...

at the beginning of the merger we did this to customers by basically telling them if they canceled the would have to pay at&t or cingular and etf fee..then there was this big HEADS up from our legal department advising us to quit doing this b/c it was illegal and not on the ...
(continues)

The first one they usually talk to is the rep that sold them the phone, and then we have to get them to the right department.

Your explanation about the legal department issuing a correction because it was illegal makes more sense to me, since I do remember reading about the Blue ETF. I know it was stated at one point that those who did not reverse migrate would pay the Blue ETF, but since customers address these exact same questions at sales reps this is something that should've been communicated to more than just retention.

Obviously, a public forum isn't the medium to distribute such information accurately or credibly, so I hope we can see the same CSP information as you. If I can get the documentation, you can also bet I'll be fo...
(continues)

yeah trust me if it wasnt true i wouldnt be saying this..b/c as a retetnion rep i hated losing a customer to a loophole b/c it not only hurt the company it hurt my own numbers...assuming that you guys have the same or similar access to csp as myself i will then give you the proper routing info once i get to work tonight

I have access, but I have little faith in CSP. Also, it looks like the update went down over the weekend because the look of CSP has changed a bit. I'll be at home tonight when you're at work, but I'd love to get a PM with it.

It reads roughly as follows

From the csp main page you would need to go to
Top 10 Resolutions:
then choose Policy & procedures: Cancellation and Retention

then you will want to choose the reason
Cancellation reason due to return.

then you would need to go under the monthly services & charges paragraph where it specifically states

Early Termination Fee:

If customer cancels and returns equipment w/n 30 days they will not be charged etf fee..

This also applies for legacy(blue) customers regardless if they have a contract with at&t.

They will not be charged an early termination fee from cingular, that is what that portion of CSP is talking about. With the new migration policies for the NE region (which is what i handle) we recieved an email and training which specifically stated several main things

1: No more activation/upgrade fees for customers migrating to orange from blue

2: Blue customers now have to meet standard eligibility requirements to migrate, i.e. 11 months through 12 mnth agreement or 21 through 24 month agreement

3: We no longer refer to it as migration (yeah, sorry, i broke the rules above 🙂 ) it is simply an upgrade with billing system change

4: customers upgrading go by standard upgrade policies, meaning, that if they migrate, and were s...
(continues)

and if this theory is correct?

who tracks which at&t customers cancel w/ their cingular service w/n 30 days to correctly charge them an etf fee...

the whole reason this doesnt make sense is b/c we have no legal binding to the at&t contract anymore unless they choose to REVERSE migrate...

there is nothing in our terms and conditions that state otherwise.

As of 6 months after the merger ( I think it was 6 months, not for sure ) they're no longer ATT, they are simply Cingular customers in another billing system, and are thus treated like any other Cingular customer, thus my little example i had. Have you guys not gotten all the nasty emails saying "STOP REFERRING TO THEM AS ATT, WE NO LONGER HAVE THE RIGHTS TO SAY ATT", we've been getting them daily for last couple of months, they are tracked just like any other upgrade is tracked, its like if a customer upgraded and moved, switched from a care market to telegence market, then cancelled out and moved back to his care market, they simply start his contract back up, just b/c he switched billing systems doesnt mean hes out in limbo somewhere.

I've heard we can refer to them as "former ATT Wireless Customers", but not anything like "formerly with ATT Wireless". Weird legal distinctions...

I was able to find that article by search for "Cancellation and Retention", but I didn't see anything on there specifically addressing the reverse migration / no reverse migration issue. I do see notes at the bottom that say "8/11/2005 - removed migration text", but nothing else.

I found the same thing, Its one thing to have loophole that a few customers exploit to get out of ETF's, but that doesnt make it policy

Ah the good ol' CSP. Is it wrong that Google is a better search tool for Cingular policies than the tool Cingular provides us?

Oh, i know this one, TRUE! 😁

i assume that both parties here are dealers and or agents becuase how would either one of you know if the customer was charged for the etf fees ? its not like you people deal with them after you sell them a plan !I find it hard to believe that anyone can get out of a contract for anything short of military personnel

Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Any agent worth their soul does as much as they can to continue the after-sale service.

I've gotta throw in my 2 cents with atxcc and tex. If you migrate over then cancel you'll have the AT&T termination fee, if your AT&T was under contract when you originally migrated over. Of course, if you were out of contract you wouldn't have the ETF.

Exactly!

I don't know all the ins and outs of migrations but I do know it isn't an easy way to skip out on an ETF.

I got an email over that exact subject from our account rep when the merger happened last year, so I know we're right about it. If there ever is a loophole, it's not from something that blatent.

I just don't understand how people think that 2 HUGE companies wouldn't have thought about this. Of course there's no easy way to get out. YOU SIGNED THE CONTRACT PEOPLE. Of course there are extinuating circumstances, but for the most part they are legitimate charges..

I will agree with conquest. Having been a person in this exact situation.

(and of course, the average Cingular rep knows nothing about this or at least claims to not know)

Anyway, if you are an ATTWS (tdma) customer migrating over to the new cingular (gsm), then it VOIDS your contract with ATTWS. You now have 30 days for the buyers remorse with Cingular and can cancel that contract, walking away ETF FREE!!!
There is no automatic reverse migration, as suggested, and no subsequent ATTWS old contract to fulfill (unless you DO reverse migrate). Conquest is ABSOLUTELY Correct!!!

I spoke with only ONE Cingular Rep and a Retention Rep that could confirm this. My situation, I signed a 2 year contract with US Cellular the same day I st...
(continues)

u didnt read the post man. the credit is for phones, not billing.


justinwilliams Yesterday, 9:48 PM



not if they used thier own unlocked phone. Cedits don't take 3 months either. I just had a 1100 credit hit my acount in less than 3 days due to overbilling once again by Cing.

Plus..you can't use a unlocked phone when you migrate..they require a new phone with a new agreement...at least any dept I've ever talked to.

Or of course the best option, stop hating on us because a problem occurred and we wouldn't correct it because we had just reason. Why does everyone have to hate on us because they had a couple problems. Everyone is given a second chance and if we correct our mistakes, not yours, then that is a fair deal.

Don't be mad because we wouldn't give a credit for going over your minutes, don't be angry because you didn't call to get your Regional plans calling area, don't be upset because service was interrupted for a couple days.

Problems will happen, live with it, learn from it and move on. Life is this way, this company is here to provide service AND make money at the same time. We didn't get to 50 million customers because we gave out credi...
(continues)

Or you could just suck it up! Pay the etf, it would still be cheaper depending on how much time you have left. for instance $175=ETF if you were to pay 19.99 for say a year you'd be paying $240 PLUS taxes and it only goes up if you have a higher plan. It's just so much easier to cancel pay until the end of the billing cycle and be done with it!

Phonesmart, we have to go by what we've been trained on and told. If you cancel and don't reverse migrate you will have an ETF. We've hashed this out, and it's not in writing anywhere that a migration will or will not have an ETF if you cancel without migrating back. Every supervisor I've asked on this issue has said there would be an ETF, and not one single person has ever confirmed that you wouldn't. We can't go by what people say on forums, as they're not official channels.

There wont be any class action suits against Cingular either. When you signed your contract you agreed not to enter into a class lawsuit. You have to face them as an individual if you deny arbitration.

R-o-m,

I don't want to blame anyone, R, other than the company as a whole. Your csp will explain the difference as it relates to ATT/Cing contract migration. The important item here is that this is ONLY a case pertaining to the migration from "blue/legacy" contracts to Cingular. The reverse migration isn't necessarily automatic, but is an "option" only. Many of the reps believe that it is the only option, other than an ETF. When you sign the new contract with Cingular, you are then bound by IT'S terms, conditions, and agreements...no longer then ATT Wireless Contract. You see, legally, it over-rides the "old" agreement, and nulls it making it of no affect. The New Contract with Cingular is then the reigning authority governing both...
(continues)

Also, Class action lawsuits are not just filed by consumers, however, by consumer advocacy groups, and often times State Attorney General's offices.

I follow what you're saying, but all we have to go by is what we're told. It's not our department so we don't have the experience in that area, but we've had the original training on it. I've asked my account exec several times about this issue since it's been brought up on here, and every time he says there is an ETF. Because my superiors say that there is, I would never advise any customer of doing this. It's not just because I'd like to make a sale, it's because I'd hate to see someone get screwed over because I told them to do it. I consider anyone who has gotten out of contract by this to be lucky.

Some dude from this thread emailed me with where this info was "supposed" to be on CSP.

It didn't read as they stated.

This is REALLY getting old and everyone is getting pretty drenched from the pissing contest.

it's not a way to get out of anything...let's say you are a ciny orange customer and resign a new two year contract half way though the first one to get a discount on a new phone and to change to a new plan...you do have 30 days on the new phone yet from what i'm hearing you people are saying that you signed a new contract so there for it's then ok to cancel without etf...

Meetoo,

I don't think that is what is being incinuated in this particular forum. I think that the contract resignation is only during the migration from legacy blue customers to the new Cingular Orange. I believe that otherwise, we are bound (and rightfully should be) to the terms and conditions of the two year contract.