nextel18 said:
i know its old news, but it is sad.

Yeah in that same quater Cingular actually beat Verizon in adds. So much for that analyist's analyzation........Analylists, especially market ones are rarley correct. If they were we would all be making bank in the markets short and long LOL.

wow but 100k subscribers. big deal. if it wasnt for the att wireless purchase, cingular would not have done better then verizon.

by the way those analysts are right as well as some others.

nextel18 said:
wow but 100k subscribers. big deal. if it wasnt for the att wireless purchase, cingular would not have done better then verizon.

by the way those analysts are right as well as some others.

Excuse me. They were wrong. Cingular added 100K MORE when they predicted the opposite in the beginning of the quarter. Verizon stock started rising on those pie in the sky reports and fell like a rock in January when the REAL truth came out. Verizon has lost 15% of its Value in 6 months. SBC has lost less (11%) and in fact began losing less after fourth qtr results were announced. YOur news is old and of no consequence.

BTW that news was after the outages last year. The glitch in San Diego is much a...
(continues)

its not about the stocks and rising or declining becuase each has differnt value as respect to the companies that they represent.

how about this... you said that cingular will be still number 1 in 2005. so put up a number for the full year 2005 for verizon and cingular, try to add arpu in there too and churn if you want to.

Wait a minute. Have you not said countless times yourself that the ATTWS purchase did nothing for Cingular?

And now you're telling us that Cingular would not have done better than Verizon without the ATTWS purchase. Hmm, sounds like that purchase has done Cingular good.

Or are you going to take back what you just said...

no your not understanding. the only way that cingular did well is becuase they added 21 million subscribers from att wireless. thus; without att wireless' subscribers they wouldnt have been ahead of verizon.

seems like your not understanding much.

Well then, you're not understanind their numbers. Even without the net additions from ATTWS for the first portion of the quarter, Cingular had 1.7 million net adds. That's a tie with Verizon. Hmmmm, still seems to me like something made those customers go with Cingular. Couldn't have been ATTWS could it? 🙄

it couldnt have been from verizon or nextel since their churns have been decreasing.

it could have been from att wireless. you knwo when there is migration customers from the other network goes onto another network which ads subscribers obviously, which then lowers churn.

I wasn't implying that it was from Verizon or Nextel.

Migrated customers from ATTWS to Cingular were not calculated in churn or net additions so that isn't the case either.

My point was:

You stated that buying ATTWS did/will do no good for Cingular. If Cingular gained 1.7 million net adds on its own, which is nearly double from its previous quarter, the buyout must have done them SOME good.

yea, the att wireless purchase hasnt helped cingular yet.

by the way, what about this? Cingular integrated essentially all customer-facing operations by launch date and has migrated over 1 million AT&T Wireless subscribers to new Cingular postpaid plans.

http://bellsouthcorp.com/proactive/newsroom/release. ... »
(q4)

nextel18 said:
by the way, what about this? Cingular integrated essentially all customer-facing operations by launch date and has migrated over 1 million AT&T Wireless subscribers to new Cingular postpaid plans.

http://bellsouthcorp.com/proactive/newsroom/release. ... »
(q4)

I never said that there weren't migrations. Of course there were. I said that migrated customers were not included in the net additions calculation. ATTWS customers migrating from an ATTWS plan to a Cingular plan were considered current customers, from start to finish.

or maybe that they added the 1 million subscribers to those quart numbers? see its hard to tell right now.

"ATTWS customers migrating from an ATTWS plan to a Cingular plan were considered current customers, from start to finish."

is this a fact? if so, please prove it somehow.

nextel18 said:
or maybe that they added the 1 million subscribers to those quart numbers? see its hard to tell right now.

Are you kidding me? You really think that Cingluar only REALLY added 700,000 new customers? That's funny.

I AM SAYING MAYBE. they did say they added 1 million from att wireless to cingular. so it makes sense.

They never used the word "added". That would be implying something totally different.

well it does say migrated. which means to add. as post pay which is add. etc.. its very vague i think.

Since when does migrated mean add? Show me the dictionary that says that.

Migration means to move from one place to another. That means that ATTWS customers moved from ATTWS plans to Cingular plans. Where anywhere in there does it say that those numbers were included in Q4 results? It surely doesn't look to me like migrate and add mean the same thing.

What dictionary are you using? 😳

then what about this? Cingular integrated essentially all customer-facing operations by launch date and has migrated over 1 million AT&T Wireless subscribers to new Cingular postpaid plans.

that is why its very vague. i am going to talk to IR on monday to ask them some questions about it. you should too.

migrate is when you move one place to another. it doesnt say add but it doesnt say not add. thats why its vague.

"Cingular integrated essentially all customer-facing operations by launch date..."

To me that is saying that on day #1 of the merge, Cingular was accounting for 46 million customer, whether ATTWS or Cingular.

"and has migrated over 1 million AT&T Wireless subscribers to new Cingular postpaid plans."

That means that 1 million more of the 46 million are now on Cingular plans, and one million lees are on ATTWS plans. That does not mean that there are any more or less customers overall. Still 46 million.

I'm going to bed.

ok.. read this...

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »

Those people already count as Cingular customers, so if that is the case how can we boast 50 million strong without having gotten the 1.7 million somewhere else?

"Those people already count as Cingular customers" do you have proof of that? again, no one knows if you guys do add it but when i read the 10k i provided two snipits that says they do add it. (add the att wireless' customers to cingular's base)

Because when CIngular acquired those customers we became 46 million, now that we are adding people that makes us up to 50 million, meaning that if it were the same people and same numbers that would mean the numbers were not getting larger.

yea, i can see your point. but if you had 46 million and ended with 50 million at the end of 2005 that means cingular only got 4 million customers for the year, or 1 million per quarter. (4 quarters in a year) which isnt good at all. thats why when i saw that they added a lot of subscribers last quarter (in 2004) it showed a high number and i felt like they are adding numbers from att wireless' to cingular's base. just looks that way.

so 1 million per quarter or 4 million per year isnt that great.

are my assessments wrong?

No we had 46 at the point of the acqusition of AT&T (for someone who supposedly knows it all you are coming up pretty short right now). And that was right in the beginning of the 4th quarter 2004 it is now the end of the 1st quarter 2005 and we have 50 million.. So that is 4 million in 2 quarters. So, yeah I do think that your accessment is wrong... And by the way, last I checked that 1 million new adds was good for a quarter, but maybe thats just me.

dont be a smart person. i was asking you a question. i know you cant handle it becuase your in your little dream world.

actually cingular bought att wireless on... feb. 17th 2004. which would mean that is the 1st quarter. (1st quarter= jan feb march. 2nd april may june. 3rd july aug sept. 4th quarter. october nov dec)

so they bought them in the 1st quarter.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4276272/ »

they had 46 million total after feb 17th 2004. so if they had 50 million at the end of 4th quarter which would be only 4 million for 3 quarters.

I was being no "smarter" than you come off to be. And the deal closed (meaning the first official day we functioned as one company) was November 29, 2004. That was when it was 46 million... Just as Sprint is purchasing Nextel right now, but until the FCC clears everything they still operate as seperate companies and the customers are not added.

ok so we are going as to when it was 100 percent closed by the fcc/ftc/shareholders and others? ok... well i didnt take it that way.

as soon as they bought them they had 46 million subscribers. just like nextel/sprint has 42.9 million subscribers when you include affiliates etc... you add that the moment they buy the company.

they do compete as differnt companies but they still will add total subscribers, however, not revenue or anything like that. (actually as soon as they get the ok from the fcc with the transformation of assets and other things thats when they work as one company).



"was November 29, 2004. That "

you have a link about that? (maybe from the fcc)

Was wrong on the date... But here is a link for you. It was November 17th

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?A ... »

alright thanks.... do you know when the transformation of assets where oked ?

but usually you add the subscribers and everything right after you merge.

It might just be me but I would think that was the same date.

it wouldnt be the same date, i dont think. if it was then that means you add the total subscribers from att wireless to the base of cingular's. thus; they got 4 million in that year becuase of the merger was oked and you stated that you think the date of the transformation of ownership is the same day or what not.

How does one quarter become a whole year then... because we added 1.9 3th and 1.8 in 1st of this year... So that's 2 quarters not 4. I honestly do not remember what we did in 1,2 & 3 of last year, but as I stated I will find it.

alright.. find it please. i want to see.

i know that cingular had 24 million when the merger was announced so if they added 1.9 million for 4 quarters. that means they would have added about 7.6 million. which would mean they would have 31.6 million subscribers and att wireless had 22 million subscribers.
that equals 53.6 million customers, however they have 53. thats why its very hard to understand how cingular calculates the additions etc...

I did not say that they added 1.9 per quarter, just the fourth quarter. And we have 50 million. And I will tomorrow... I probably still have the links on the office computer at work.

not a big deal... we can just add it to cingular's 24 million customers when the merger was announced to make sure its the right number.. (i mean 50 million)

You don't see how the ATTWS purchase has helped?

Cingular instantaneously doubled net additions per quarter. That would not have been possible without the ATTWS purchase.

i dont care about instant. its about keeping them and continuing to get and to acheive substantial growth.


"That would not have been possible without the ATTWS purchase."

exactly.

nextel18 said:
i dont care about instant. its about keeping them and continuing to get and to acheive substantial growth.


"That would not have been possible without the ATTWS purchase."

exactly.

You are contradicting yourself. Did the ATTWS purchase help Cingular achieve something or not?

And don't worry about them continuing to achieve substantial growth. They will. 🙂

no i am not!! it didnt help. they are adding subscribers from the att wireless migration. i even pointed that out.

you cant say that they will, becuase you dont know, unless they keep adding the att wireless' subscribers over to the cingular's network and numbers. (i already pointed out to you that they did that)

No...they...didn't.

it said they did. (i provided you the snipit)

Uh, care to provide me the snipit again. I must have missed it...

i did on the next post.

something interesting you might want to take a look at.

http://www.wi-fitechnology.com/printarticle1764.html »


In its first quarter of combined operations, the new Cingular delivered a net increase in subscribers of nearly 1.8 million on a pro forma basis, which incorporates results from AT&T Wireless for the first 25 days of October, includes net additions from other acquired properties and excludes results from markets that Cingular has agreed to divest.

then it says..

Not counting net customer additions of AT&T Wireless for the first 25 days of the quarter and other pro forma adjustments for dispositions and other acquisitions, reported net customer additions were 1.7 million.

they actually got 5.7 million for the quarte...
(continues)

1. Where you getting the 5.7 million from?
2. Looks like they added both what?

i showed you the link... you can follow it. looks like they do infact add att wireless' numbers to their numbers.

That's not even what we are disussing. I already knew that they added ATTWS' numbers for the first 25 days of the quarter, BECAUSE they were still operating as seperate companies.

The question was whether or not they included migrations in net additions calculations, which through what all you just said, is still unclear as ever.

Texaswireless is right, you need some sleep.

i dont need any sleep. i am doing fine.

well, i suplied an excerpt from you that they did.

i still belive that they do , however, you and i dont know, becuase it is hard to tell. from the excerpts i posted to you have the 5.8 million subscrbiers it showed that they did then. so why wouldnt they still do it now?

again we dont know.

It's very funny how things work.

1. After the fist quarter as a combined company, Cingular's churn dropped much below either company's seperate churn rate.
2. Analysts are now expecting that Cingular's churn has dropped drastically again.
3. Cingular has always calculated their churn rate through a differnt formula than copmanies such as Verizon, Nextel, Sprint, and T-mobile have. They have announced that for Q1 05 results, they will use the same formula as their competitors to calculate churn, which will potentially further drop their churn rate.

We shall see...

1. they combined att wireless' customers so naturly churn would go down.
2. we will see. (it could be the case as more and more att wireless' customers are upgrading to cingular)
3. how do they calculate their churn rate?

Cingular includes reseller cancellations in their churn calculation while other companies do not. In the Q1 churn calculation, Cingular will no longer include the ressler disconnects in their churn calculation.

In addition, starting in the first quarter of 2005, Cingular will adopt a
new calculation for reseller churn that is more consistent with some of its
major competitors. Cingular currently includes reseller disconnects in its
churn calculation. In the future, Cingular will base its calculations on
total reseller net additions or reductions, in line with industry peers. If
this methodology had been in place in the fourth quarter, Cingular's pro forma
churn would have been 2.4 percent overall.

http://www.prnewswire. »...
(continues)

other companies dont include their resellers churn? like what companies?

No. All companies include reseller churn, they just calculate it in a differnt manner.

Reseller churn is calculated seperately and then figured into the entire churn. Cingular currently uses a different formula to calculate reseller churn than the industry standard.

I can't tell you exaclty how they calculate it, because I don't know. All I know is that they will now use the same method as Verizon to calculate reseller churn, which will in turn, lower their churn considerably.

it seems like they dont really add in their prepaid churn's , however, they add in their post paid churns. i know that they add in their prepaid churns becuase thats what i belive sprint does, if i am not mistaken.

so in reality cingular's churn should be a lot higher then.

It has nothing to do with prepaid churn.

Reseller and prepaid are two different things.

Anyway...no. With the new formula, Cingular's churn has nowhere to go but down.

Cingular's progress in growing its GSM base and its network improvements
contributed to significantly improved churn levels. Pro forma average monthly
churn improved to 2.6 percent -- 60 basis points lower than pro forma churn
for the third quarter of 2004.
In addition, starting in the first quarter of 2005, Cingular will adopt a
new calculation for reseller churn that is more consistent with some of its
major competitors. Cingular currently includes reseller disconnects in its
churn calculation. In the future, Cingular will base its calculatio...
(continues)

i know pre paid isnt resellers, i didnt mean it that way, but oh well. well, obviously churn would go down if they dont include the wholesale and reseller's churn. we will see though. i want it consistant over the year.

Nextel, he was posting that in order to attempt to prove to you how pointless your original post was since the article you cited was from November of 2004.

He was, in a very sarcastic manner, trying to ask you to post something recent (ie. more worth-while) if you are going to post at all.

it is very hard to see online if someone was being saracastic, and to be honest, i dont care.

Only hard to tell for those who are too dense to figure out simple logic.

ooo making fun again? notice how i didnt make fun of you yet. interesting.

You have been making snide remarks for weeks....

you started earlier. dont cry. want a tissue?

Sarcasm????????

And to actually answer your question, no. Lack of backing by insurance companies weighs about 0.001% in a customer's decision to by a phone.

i never said you were being sarcastic. SF said that. again, he thinks what everyone is saying.

interesting. thanks. i havnt done any channel checks lately on that phone, so i havent followed too much on it. i know most customers love the "techness" of the phone. it is a pretty nice phone. if cingular worked well in my area and if they change their billing as well as customer service, i might try it. also razer might be on cdma, so i might try it then.

from 1-10 how much do you rank it and why?

OMG

I'm sorry but it must be way past your bed time.

I WAS being sarcastic. I WAS making light of the fact that this article, half of which has been shown to be incorrect, was posted 5 months after the fact. I was bringing up an equally ridiculous question as a point.

I'd laugh if I didn't think you actually believed I wanted to start a discussion about the RAZR.

Get some sleep man...

i dont have a bed time, my friend.

showing your ones' sarcasm on here is very hard to pick up.

you should get some sleep too, your also in texas and your online? come on now. go out.

Nevermind. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you were tired and just didn't get it. I was right on one account, you just don't get it.

Oh and BTW, I am up because my 2 year old daughter is sick and I am reading this board (bored hehe) to pass the time while I tend to her. After scrolling through many of your responses I have come to the conclusion that my precious daughter has more common sense that many here on this board, especially you.

Have a great night.

who cares about what you think. i dont. its a forum. by the way, i was and still am tired and i didnt get it either. oh well. not my loss.

Texas I hope your daughter is feeing better. ☹️ I hate when kids are sick.