New_2_T-Mobile said:
I would like to know the real cost of the add a line.

Well, I'm no blood-sucking salesman, by I've got a knack for math. It appears that your worst case scenario is:

$12.35/month- and that's at the highest recorded tax rate, Nebraska

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Page #478 (or 4 of 13, depending on how your computer reads it)

That's about $296 for two years if you don't cancel.

If you cut out at 1 year, you will have paid less than $149 in service charges and get zapped with a $230 ETF, which makes a $379 total cost for the extra line.

taxes, fees, and government surcharges that is more than 12.35. I bet it's closer to 20 bucks.

New_2_T-Mobile said:
taxes, fees, and government surcharges that is more than 12.35. I bet it's closer to 20 bucks.

I live in a state on the upper half of the table shown (with higher taxes).

My bill varies by less than $5 each month, and on my last statement my tax rate was a little less than 13.5%.

How are you calculating a 100% tax rate?

well he just said it himself he's a moron?

I'm in Illinois and generally if you add 18% you can get a fairly accurate estimate on your actual cost. So $9.99 + 18% Tax/Fees = $11.79. That would put your extra cost over two years at $307.96 ($11.79 X 24 months = $282.96, $282.96 + $25 VZW Activation Fee = $307.96)

So you think taxes DOUBLE your monthly bill? With your logic if you signed up for a cell plan that's $60/month you'd actually be paying $120.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing. I guess it just depends on the rep. He really could have been trying to help you which just so happens to benefit both of you in the process.

I actually had a customer ask about this for his own situation a couple days ago. He had no upgrades and wanted a droid. Rather than paying over $500 for retail he asked about adding a line. I was like yeah, duh, I should have thought of that. It's been a while since anyone did that. But for him he could get the Droid X for $149.99 that way and then pay $10 a month for 2 years which is $240. Even if you say $13 with taxes that's $312. That $312 plus his $149.99 is still close to $100 cheaper than paying retail plus it's a lot smaller amount over a longer p...
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I always hesitate to mention dummy ESNs. I've done them, too, I'll readily admit. But I've also had them come back to bite me - twice - when the owner of a random ESN I happened to duplicate tried to make changes with their phone. I got nasty emails and disciplinary actions on both of them. Ironically, I've also had to deal with the other end of this problem a few times over the years when some ESN was typed in as a dummy placeholder somewhere.

The only safe dummy ESN is one you KNOW isn't in use and won't be in use in the future. And as you know, you can't just make one up out of nothing, it has to have some resemblance to a valid ESN or MEID to work, which means there's a chance - sometimes slight - that you're going to cause a pro...
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I've been using one I found on a line one day and wrote it down. It comes up as moto test device but always seems to work.

what is it? dont be stingy.

Oh THAT one. Tech support uses that one a lot.

epik said:
The only safe dummy ESN is one you KNOW isn't in use and won't be in use in the future. And as you know, you can't just make one up out of nothing, it has to have some resemblance to a valid ESN or MEID to work, which means there's a chance - sometimes slight - that you're going to cause a problem for someone else down the road.

Wrong. There is a standard dummy ESN that Verizon uses that is NOT linked to any account. It shows up as a Motorola device, but there is no actual phone linked to that ESN. I've used it before when I worked for Verizon.

Yeah, I haven't had that ESN for years. Or at least, I haven't found record of it. It was always used more in customer care than retail anyway.

Besides, that Moto ESN isn't in use. It still qualifies under my criteria of "won't be in use in the future." Not only is it impossible to use the phone, MTAS isn't going to have an error with the number.

I was referring more to the random scenario of guessing a valid ESN only to find it was still active, or one where someone tries to activate it later on. Outside of Verizon, I also sell old phones on Ebay (phones from 2006 to 2010). It's not something I've run into, but it's still possible that someone made up an ESN somewhere that just happens to match one I'm selling. I don't check ESN...
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I guess you could call it a placeholder ESN and explain that no phone is linked to it.

I'm sure someone on this message board remembers it and can give it out. It's not any super secret.

I could access it right now, giving it out is something I'm not willing to do but it is under dummy esn in the intranet

I have a few dead phones laying around. One is a V710 my ex threw at me. A few LG VX-8100s that snapped in half.

Like I said, this works just fine for some people. But it has to fit your situation. Adding a new line simply to get the best deal isn't always the best deal FOR YOU.

I've been in the business a long time. It's paid my bills for many years. I've made my share of mistakes. But I would never pressure someone into such a senseless move. If it made sense for them, sure. If the customer CAME IN asking for a new line, and had a phone to activate on it so they could get the new phone, I'll be more than happy to do it. If during conversation, the customer takes that possibility of adding a line and makes it work for them, I'll double check they understand what they're doing, and help them. But simply switching you from full retail cost t...
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At the customer service level, it is a mere mention. Customer asks about their options for the new phone and I alert them that it is a possibility but most times a cpo with no contract will satisfy all the needs of getting through the rest of the contract.

1. I don't want to transfer you because I'm not an operator and my number of transfers are bad enough. If you request a line I have no problems at all.

2. I want to be the one who solves your problem. Sorry I'm just stingy like that.

3. Most times it does not work out to the benefit the customer as much as they may think.

It's all on a case by case basis, but its hardly something I would ever harp on.

It's a case by case scenario that I see abused and twisted almost every day. I had one on Tuesday, where a customer wanted to AOL their line from their bankrupt employer. Everything was authorized and ready to go. But she thought a retailer would be able to help her, and she could skip the busy corporate store. The rep there sold her a new single line, new phone, all the bells and whistles, and sent her to us for the AOL. It was obvious from talking to the customer that they had trusted the rep that this was the right thing to do, when in fact, it was not.

She ended up having to return the device and cancel the line (which wasn't easy, since the retailer didn't want to cancel service), then she came in and did an AOL.

I hate to sa...
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This is why (and sorry to offend anyone here) I hesitate to recommend the indirect agents... I've seen far too many errors and had to listen to very angry customers as I tried to decipher and then solve their issue through the profanities.

johnnyb0810 said:
This is why (and sorry to offend anyone here) I hesitate to recommend the indirect agents... I've seen far too many errors and had to listen to very angry customers as I tried to decipher and then solve their issue through the profanities.

🙄

Really, buddy? there are jerkoffs in every level of customer support for verizon. I'm an indirect and i've spent countless hours trying to fix both Customer Service and shady Corp reps mistakes. I've also done a lot of work fixing other retailers mistakes as well.

But to insinuate that all indirect agents are shady and not verizon knowledgable is COMPLETELY false and unfair to the guys like Menno who has built a reputation of being...
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Exactly.

Thats one of the few things that gets me quite riled up. I've only been in the industry for 16 months or so, but i've made it a point of pride to know as much as i can about my craft and that included Verizon rules and policies. If i don't know i'm real quick to find somebody who has the answer (like my post asking about the Nationwide Messaging plan). I've put a lot of work into this and to hear somebody offhandedly dismiss my particular channel gets me fired up.

Menno and I have had dozens of conversations about this. not all indirects are bad. I wish mine locally were half as good as the ones I hear about on the internet.

Unfortunately its impossible to uphold a high standard when there are so many people in the business. Hell, i have seen instances of entire stores in my company being let go due to shady business ethics (we had one store that whenever they could would trick people into adding lines instead of upgrades and not disclose anything to the customer. that entire staff has since been given the opportunity to pursue other means of gainful employment.) But again this applies to all channels, not just one.

I had a business customer once activate 10 lines with me, 7 smartphones, 2 mifi and a netbook. the netbook was a CLNR that my company had purchased and was selling for DIRT cheap. I told the customer about all of this and even made some rid...
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Damn right on going in to talk to the manager of the corporate store. It's one thing to have a specific instance of a problem, but another to blatantly insult your store and personnel for no reason. In either case, the manager should know better, and if they don't, all power to you for pointing it out.

Locally, most of the bad indirects have gone away. They shot themselves in the foot by treating customers like crap when they weren't in for something commissionable. The good ones still exist, but just like Verizon corporate retail, they have a few losers working in sales.

I was surprised with my encounter on Tuesday, as I hadn't had an indirect to blatantly screw with the customer in a long time. Normally, what I see is somethin...
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Why wouldn't they just direct fulfill a phone they are out of stock? When I was in sales, I hated other people touching my customer because then they became THEIR customer.

What I said was not intended to be an attack. I hesitate on transferring to financial services, I hate giving up responsibility to anyone else. No matter who it is. The fact is that 1 drop of poison can be enough to kill. No personal attacks just that I don't recommend it actively. But do not have I'll words abOut any channel to any customers.

Oh no. 🙄

Not channel wars. Stop it right now. Stop it I say!

Unfortunately, it's corporate reps, too. My latest example from earlier in the week was indirect, but I've seen more corporate reps do this than indirect reps over the years.

When I was at Alltel one could be terminated for this sort of thing so I generally refused to do it.

"I'm sorry that you got a lousy and deceptive rep. Most of us are not like that"

I don't know epik. You're not a sales person. You're management. I'd say commissioned sales rep it's probably half and half.

The most successful sales people have a bit of jerk in them. Seriously, anyone willing to sell an Eskimo snow just to show it can be done is going to be a tad bit conceited, yes? I always felt dirty just standing close to some of our better sales people.

mycool said:
- It is not about whether or not the rep is benefiting from this at all. If the customer is coming out ahead, who cares?

I'll ask that to my next pissed off customer who feels ripped off and let you know. Not EVERY situation is a customer coming out ahead.

- It is not about having equipment to put on that 3rd line or not. Verizon uses a standard dummy ESN if you truly did not have a basic handset to put on that line to avoid the data charges. This dummy ESN is not associated to any device.

I assure you it is NOT standard practice to offer to use a dummy ESN on a new line so the customer can get a good price on a phone for an existing line.

I just polled s...
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I want this dummy ESN

The point is that this should be something the customer asks for not something that the rep browbeats the customer into doing.

Browbeats no, but offer as a reasonable solution, yes.

I disagree. If a customer actually has the good sense to purchase a phone full retail and thus avoid any chance of an ETF then that is one wise consumer. They should not be discouraged.

Azeron said:
I disagree. If a customer actually has the good sense to purchase a phone full retail and thus avoid any chance of an ETF then that is one wise consumer. They should not be discouraged.

The ETF is moot because the whole point of adding the line was to ride out the contract so that you pay less over that period of time.

Let me ask you this. If you went into a restaurant and were given the option of ordering a burger for $10 or the SAME burger and a pepsi for $8. Which would you choose?

I'd ask what the catch was. We know what the catch is in this example and maybe a bit of disclosure from the waiter that his boss pays a bonus for pushing the Pepsi on me would be appropriate as well.

Azeron said:
I'd ask what the catch was. We know what the catch is in this example and maybe a bit of disclosure from the waiter that his boss pays a bonus for pushing the Pepsi on me would be appropriate as well.

Ok, but you didn't answer the question: Which would you choose? $10 burger or $8 burger/pepsi combo?

I get your point. You want disclosure, which I agree with. It should be there. But, after things are explained it wouldn't make any sense to NOT pay less for what you truly wanted (the burger) even if you didn't want a pepsi.

If you insist upon an answer then I choose C. I am a vegetarian.

🤣

Why are you using 'God' to answer all of your questions? Is that why you're so confused?

Because I am God?

You should have little problem deciding what phones to buy.

That does, however, explain all of those entirely unbelievable benefits you obtained.

I may be God, but there are Godly factors I need to think about. You won't understand. You're not on my level.

Actually, I understand all too well, and your postion would qualify as a jaded self-perception, and not true God-hood.

Else, omnipotence would allow you to concern yourself with everything at once with ease, right? That is part of the packaged deal.

Wrong again. You can't understand. You are limited to your 5 senses. 6th if you can see dead people. And no, I am not omnipotent. I am still God, though.

Ah, one of those pagan pretenders, eh? 🤨 Alright, spill it! Which are you Dionysus? Ganymedes?

Nope. I am the real deal.

I'd bet on Dionysus or Poseidon. Which is it hero, D.P, or other?

Do you know another God somewhere? Have you met him or her? I am most likely the first.

Well, there are records, and they're pretty clear for those parts where they aren't totally vague.

rrrrrrriiiiiggght. You're gonna believe old records, when you're messaging a God right now telling you the truth. How do you know those records weren't just "text messages" from a crazy person thousands of years ago? This convo is over. 🤤 🤤 🤤 🤤

Prove your Godhood.

Don't need to. 🤤 🤤 🤤

Here, here!

I'm not sure how everyone is misunderstanding me on this.

1) I myself have offered this to my customers.
2) I fully understand the "cost savings."

Here's my issue:

1) Presenting this without full disclosure of the facts is misleading the customer.
2) I see this presented in the misleading way all too often.

I get it. I'm saving my customer money, at least over two years including the initial startup. As I said, I've presented this option many times. But I always present it as an option among other options - not as the ONLY option. The customer almost always has multiple options. Anyone who pushes this as the only option is misleading. Period. THAT is what's shoddy about presenting it that way. That was what as shoddy ab...
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I think the OP deal was that the rep acted as though he were an idiot for not jumping at the opportunity to sign a new two year agreement to get a discounted handset (AND more importantly to put some cash in that rep's pocket) rather than pay full retail. We should be weaning the customer off of the something for nothing model now that the carriers have whittled the competition away and are going to the take it or leave it model.