I was referring to whatever company your cheap a$$ was leavin us for cause you want a Multimedia phone by don't want to pay for the data. And don't worry about a 350 etf unless you are going to bounce in the middle of your contract. Suck it up and stop being such a pu$$y. 😁

You don't read very well do you? I said I will not resign must be that jizz on your face. 😁 I'm just trying to make some sense out of this $350 ETF! I looked around and I didn't read that any of the other carriers were doing this. So why is Verizon? I just don't see how a BB 8530 comes with an ETF of 350 bucks!


I was going to get the enV3 but they wanted ten bucks for data, I don't use data on my texting devices. I could see a multi line family plan not being very happy about paying an extra 30 bucks or more just to use an enV3!

Jizz on my face? I see elementary school must be out today. Do your parrents know you are on the computer unsupervised? All I can say is don't get a multimedia phone I you are not going to want to pay the MULTIMEDIA package, if not get a rock,barrage,convoy,smooth or any other of our non multimedia devices. If not piss off and stop whining about something you can't change. Be happy with what you have. Get a PDA your etf drops after a year.

And where did I say I will pay for data? Man you're hopeless! I wanted the BB but I don't feel that phone should come with an ETF of $350.

Not*

I agree...a $350 ETF is ridiculous. Verizon is just greedy. 🙄

Of course they are. Most peoople are greedy. Generally, all SUCCESSFUL businesses are, too. Google says: "Don't be evil". Apparently, being greedy isn't the same in their eyes as that $350 ERF looks quite fat.

There's a fine, almost invisible line, between greed and simply doing business.

all depends on which side of the line you are on.

Then pay retail for it (just 10 more than etf or so) and not sign anything.

of course, this would be a lot better if the plan rate was lower.. but yeah.

I've bought my last three phones unsubsidized.

How much is the phone with a contract - $50

How much is the phone without a contract - $400

Understand?

People buy the phones to cancel them to resell them for more money. So with a higher ETF with 10$ deducted monthly the fee will come out evenly from what it was with the $175 with 5$ deducted monthly. It's for Verizon to stop losing so much money from all these 3rd party companies.

So? People do not care. They think it is perfectly okay to rip Verizon off by buying a BOGO storm and deactivating the second line, selling it on Ebay and paying the ETF. Pure profit. It's the American way. Like I said, "Most people are greedy." Good luck getting them to admit it though.

I agree! 😕 😕

yes jizz on your face you did attack him first numbnuts! now contribute to the thread or go away.

Understand this about the ETF: I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

The full retail on that model is $359.99.
You buy it for $49.99, then cancel your line for $175. Your "cost" was $224.99. You turn around and sell it on ebay for $300 to someone wanting the phone for less than the $360 retail price. You just made $75, roughly. Now, do this every few months for two years. You made about $600 be taking advantage of the activation/ETF/cancellation contract game.

But wait! Verizon LOST $135 when you signed up then canceled, not to mention the profit from the $30/mo plus minimum $40 price plan they would have made if you'd kept your contract. Verizon might have lost hundreds off of you because you worked the system. Since ...
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Well thanks for the explanation. I wonder why the other carriers are not doing this too? And why is the FCC up in verizon's face because of it..makes you think that verizon is full of crap trying to pull this, and it's just their attempt to LOCK people further into a contract/making it very hard to leave..where before the avg Joe who wants the Freedom to buy out their contract at a reasonable rate could do so. Now they will really be stuck unless money have a money tree in their back yard. The standard ETF has been supposedly working for all carriers for years, now big red decides it's not enough money. How many people could be trying to pull that money making schemes you laid out to really have that big of in impact on big red? i don't beli...
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Epik did not even break it down for the BOGOs. People have made some good money off of Verizon in the past with BOGO Storms and such. Bottom line: There is no difference between a $175 ETF or a $350 ETF if one never cancels. Don't get me wrong, I think you have every right to voice your displeasure with the ETF, but as much as I detest Verizon, I also think they have every right to charge it. I also think that AT&T will get in on the act as soon as they deem it safe to do so (particularly on the iphone).

The $9.99 for 25MB data requirement on the Envy 3? There is no defense for that. But the bottom line is your best vote is with your feet and ultimately your wallet. If you MUST have the vaunted Verizon Network there is always Pa...
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Well i guess will see if ATT follows, i hope they don't...they need to break away from copying every move verizon makes. I have no loyalty to any carrier just happens that verizon works better than anything in my area.. if not i would have the bold 9700 or iphone with ATT! OK I'm done here. Late

As far as the claim that one does not get the same coverage as Verizon? Fear mongering. Those who drop that line are usually sales people who can't attack the coverage because it IS Verizon's coverage. Take a look at the map. Then ask yourself this question? With the combined networks of Verizon and Alltel, where in the U.S. does Verizon roam? I'll take Verizon native coverage any day.

You can, but it won't dissuade me. Go ahead and list those areas in southwest Mississippi and southeast Louisiana that I don't care about either.

i will tell you that until this last year when verizon installed cell towers in my area and also opened a authorized store, that verizon roamed whare i am and it caused issues with the users because all incoming calls went straight to vm.

The last time I checked the decision to offer a subsidy on a phone or PDA as well as the decision to offer a buy one get one deal on a Blackberry device was completely up to the carrier making the offer. So Verizon made these offers and then got mad because some people were smart enough to take advantage of the offer to basically get their phone for free and now Verizon is increasing the ETF. Sounds like someone made a bad business decision and was called for it at corporate and decided it was the consumers fault for being smarter than this person and this is their way of saving the program that they got pushed through corporate. I wouldn't sign a contract with a $350 ETF mostly because the last phone I purchased was a total piece of crap an...
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You are correct. They SHOULD have raised the ETF BEFORE making BOGO offers. A mistake which they have since corrected. Understand that I have NO LOVE for Verizon, but they have the right to charge the $350 ETF just as a discerning consumer has the right to say "BLEEP NO!" and not sign such an agreement.

I'd say it's less "someone made a bad business decision" and more "the times changed and they didn't adjust to it earlier."

Back when EVERY Verizon subsidy was EXACTLY $120, the $175 ETF made perfect sense. The smartphones were $399.99 and $499.99 because they're full retail costs were $520 and $620 and Verizon ALWAYS discounted EXACTLY $120. And this was before you sent in the $50 rebate.

Then the game changed (thanks in many ways to the iPhone). Verizon started discounting phones that still cost them $520 or so much more than $120. The original example of the Curve II at $359.99 shows that the phone is discounted $210 down to $149.99 before the $100 rebate. The $210 subsidy is almost twice the subsidy Verizon gave on phones only ...
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Exactly. But they HAVE adapted and the FCC can go hang themselves as far as I am concerned. If they won't do anything about carriers charging $.20 per SMS and $.25 per MMS they can question all they like, they have no standing here. All they are doing is politicizing a legitimate business practice.

Agreed. The FCC seemed to be smoking in the bathroom while companies changed text rates and monthly "fees" that look like taxes. Sure, they eventually mention something, but well after the issue has happened.

This time around, Verizon ups the penalty for phones they subsidize more than "simple feature phones" - a practice I understand but accept as logical - and the FCC is on them like flies on crap.

Azeron, am I one of the knights, or one of the warmongers?

I honestly would not label you as either. I don't fault someone for working for Verizon and being pro-Verizon. It is those that tell people to shut up complaining for posting their disagreement with a company's policies or troll other carriers forums and bash them or name call people because they have something to say about "their" carrier that I am critical of. You have always been objective in my estimation. If someone attacks VZW without merit...you step up. I don't see a problem there. But you don't defend the indefensible (as you have pointed out required data plan on 8360).

Oh, good. 🙂 I WANT to be objective, and I strive to be so. Please, if I ever unreasonably stray in either direction, point it out to me.

The pissing matches on here used to force me off the board out of frustration. I can't stand them. It makes no sense to tell someone to flake off simply because they have a concern about the company they buy service from. And, of course, it makes no sense to grind out more and more "I hate Verizon because..." posts when you're hard-earned money will likely be welcomed at a half-dozen other quality companies (as you have stated on many occasions).

I'll be honest. I love Verizon's coverage. I spend more than a few moments trying to talk myself into leaving because of the price, but it is really difficult. It would be different if the American landscape were like Europe and all I need to do is activate a SIM with a rival carrier. NO! I've got to buy all new equipment. Today is probably my last day with my beloved 8330. It is going to be REALLY hard to go back to a dumb-phone only.

I wish I'd kept my i760. At least I could turn the data on and off if I preferred.

🤣 🤣 So true, mindless zombies, the bunch of them. Cant wait to hear a response.

First, I don't explain away anything with the $10 data plan.

As I've said numerous times on this board and elsewhere, I do not agree with it, at least, not without conditions. I heard through a contact that the price plans were changing in conjunction with the data requirements going online, and I had hoped that voice costs would be going down across the board while data requirements went up, effectively canceling each other out. Obviously, that was wishful thinking. Aside from that, I can better understand the requirements being tagged onto some models, but not phones like the LG 8360 and the Motorola Entice. If there were clearer distinctions between the high-end bells-and-whistles models that require data and the ones that do not...
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Oh yeah! That LG Dare promo they have when the phone first launched was very profitable.

Ha! The LG Chocolate (before people realized it was a turd) was offered to employees for what, $50? And that was back when employees could open a line of service and cancel without any ETF because they didn't have contracts!

A friend opened four lines back in the day (the old max for employees), bought four Chocolates, and sold them all for $100 to $150 a piece. Good profit.

Damn, the way I make it sound, employees were the problem. 🙂

Yeah. There were rules in place, but I would use all four of my upgrades and just switch back to the original phones and drop the new phones on Ebay. They were VERY wise to begin holding employees to contracts. Everything in life is a reaction. If people honored their contracts there wouldn't even be a need for ETFs. The problem is people see a big corporation or the government and the feel that it is okay to rip them off because they have SO much money. Sorry...doesn't work that way.

Like Menno, but for the sake of argument, I hope that some day the industry switched to unsubsidized phones. I'd rather sign a contract for a lower monthly rate rather than for a phone, and I think it will give customers back some of their purchase power.

One can expect an objective response from someone who says "leaving us for".

Platypus, since Verizon's network is so awesome, why don't you activate a VZW phone on Page Plus (Verizon reseller)? $39.99 Unlimited Talk and Text.

I was originally going after the Curve 2, but just caught off guard with the 350 ETF. I don't believe page plus offers BB service...plus I really don 't want to go with pre-paid service. I read that pageplus does not offer all the coverage verizon Post Paid plan does...but I don't know if that's true.

Anyways thanks for the suggestion. I will probably just go pay full retail for a curve 2 found one on CL for 3 hundred brand new, and stay contract free for now. I'm sure verizon will not change any of these policies but i can Hope.

Verizon's going to offer Blackberry on prepay soon, though I don't know any real details yet. I'm told it would be $5 more than normal for the monthly rate (the recent prepay change), and $5 more than normal for the email and web plan. The phone would likely be $120 or so, but no ETF.

That reminds me, one of the issues I have with the %350 ETF is that signing a one year isn't adjusted for the change in cost. You pay $70 more for the phone (i.e. Verizon subsidizes less), but the ETF is still $350 with $10 taken off for every month you complete under contract. So canceling just before the 1 year contract is up would cost $240, but a month later it would be $0. One would imagine that a lower subsidy warrants a lower ETF rate. If you ha...
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Oh yeah. I understand that. I'm just saying Verizon/Alltel coverage is HUGE! I think I went extended in rural Mississippi once and of course I lost coverage in rural Louisiana. I'll take VZW native coverage. No question.

I can never understand why anyone purchasing a secondary line would sign a two year unless it is part of a BOGO. Can't upgrade early and the warranty is gone after a year. It is worth it in my opinion to just pay the extra $70 and upgrade every ten months. Flip old phones on Ebay.

Because they like that warm and fuzzy $50 price point.

Man, I used to shake my head at the short-sightedness of customers. Signing two year contracts for the POS phones like the U340. I felt so badly for them.

True. I never understood customers signing two-years for the Kyocera KX-414. Talk about a six-month phone, at best. $20 would end up costing you $200 when you figure in the full retail a650 you had to buy later on.

Aw man! You went way back. I would glare daggers at sales reps who sold Kyocera phones. That phone WAS garbage. They had a PTT version (KX-444, I think). You know what I LOVED about Kyocera phones is when a customer would bring the phone in and complain about it not charging. I would hem the sales rep who sold it up in a corner:

"First of all. You sold a Kyocera. You are going straight to hell for that." Second of all, you neglected to show him where to plug in the charger. You KNOW they always plug the charger into the headset port!"

I think we mostly sold our KX414s full retail anyway - it was the "desperate man's phone," and it was only about $140 full retail back in the day.

But every once in a while someone would be set on buying that thing under contract. It was the reluctant dad who thought he was all smart paying nearly nothing for his kid's first phone, or the slightly stupid teenager who thought it looked "kewl." I've always been honest with people (and I still am!), and told them I'd rather stand chin-high in fresh manure than sell them that phone.

I sold a bunch of the PTT ones to a company about four years ago. They needed PTT and ruggedness. It was the first and last time I ever sold them. Oddly enough, they're still using them (I can't convince t...
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🤣

Oh yeah! I forgot how cheap they were full retail. Along with the LG-VX3200 and the Motorola C343. The VX3200 was a winner. I think $129.99 or $149.99 full retail. Couldn't beat it.

Of course, I remember when the Audiovox CDM-9500 was $499.99 Full Retail (AND we thought it was a cool phone because the Fifty Cent "In the Club" sounded JUST LIKE the song! Man polyphonic ring tones. Talk about the Stone Age).

The CDM-9900 was the first high-end (read: camera) phone we sold for $50. The model existed for all of two months before it was no longer made. And it was a GOOD phone, too. I'd say it would hold its weight even today, if we sold it.

Verizon did not want to carry it at all. It was a GREAT phone. The camera was AWESOME! I bought one and put it on Ebay. I was REALLY torn after I saw what a great camera it had.

The company I worked for had a couple of those as loaner phones.. basically if someone game in with a phone that was not functional but still covered under warranty, we would provide loaner phones for them to use while they waited for their phone to come in. If they didn't return their loaner phone, we had a signed paper from them that let us charge 100 for the lost loaner and we wrote it off.

anytime that phone was given for a U340 or something similar, we would never get the loaner back.

Yeah, I would trade a $100 and a U340 for a CDM9900 any day. Toshiba made the good Audiovox phones. Those 8000 series phones were garbage.

I never got that either... I loved it when people would come into my store with a 340 they got online for "free" complaining about how poor the sound/battery life was. Things like that are free for a reason.



then you had the opposite end "I want to know the retail cost of all the phones so I can get the MOST EXPENSIVE" one for free with my NE2.. I want to get my money's worth..

How come VZW couldn't leave the price of unlimited data for dumbphones @ $15??? If someone is going to pay $30 for unlimited data they might as well just buy a smartphone(pda). Its ridiculous to require someone pay that much for unlimited on a dumbphone. $10 for 25MB...Wth is 25 MB??? Anyone could easily go over that. Whomever decided to make these changes to the plans definitely didn't have the consumer in mind. **** Verizon! *middle finger*

Your question answered itself... "they might as well just buy a smartphone."

All this stuff about assuming all people use there phones the same and that everybody does this or does that with their phone pisses me off! It isn't up to any company to TELL someone what they have to pay for.

I swear, cable companies don't FORCE things onto peoples accts.

tell me jay if a person uses 25m aday why would it not if be a GOOD DEAL on only pay $30 a month????????????????????????????
Unless your dad doesn't mind blowing the house payment on your phonebill.

Oh and the other guys are pushing the same data plans on you.

Grow up and expect to pay for data, its what the phone companies have to sell. People don't pay 40/50 bucks a month to be reminded to stop and buy milk. The want data and clear talk, na that cost money. Money you are going to spend or do without the service.

30 dollars for unlimited data on a dumb phone is just fu(king retarded! Have you used mobile web? Jesus Christ I would not pay a dollar to use it! 30 is fine for smart phone data with a reasonable browser!

The other carriers are not DOING it, att is giving you a choice between txt and data, and their data is unlimited!!! Big difference! So you you want a texting machine obviously you can just get your txt package and walk away.


tmobile and sprint have not done anything stupid like this, and NONE of them are trying to TRAP people further and sneak a 350 ETF like Verizon!

Granted, Sprint is walking on eggshells and T-Mobile can't find the strength to follow suit when they're still busily building up their 3G network and milking the "we're not AT&T or Verizon" shtick for all its worth. You better believe that if those two had strong financials and two or three times more customers, they'd be thinking the same thing, too.

I honestly don't see how Sprint can continue.. their past few years have been terrible (showing a loss) You can only give away stuff for free so long before you run out of mad money.

All the stupid talk about "If you want a semi-smart phone expect pay for data" drives me nuts. I WANT a semi-smart phone like the ENV Touch and I DON'T need the data. There are other reasons to have a phone like that. On my account I called and had them block data on all 5 lines.

Now they tell me if I want a phone I have to add 10 bucks to each of the lines I upgrade???!!! I'm so mad. I'm glad that I have three lines out of contract and the other two within a few months. It ticks me off that three weeks ago I could have got the phones I wanted without some stupid forced add on.

Verizon hear this: I've paid you over $15,000 over the past six years. You've going to lose me and I dare say many more customers over policies like this. Giv...
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you're responding to the wrong post fyi

Don't talk the talk, walk the walk.

Seriously... I think an important first step would be allowing others to vent without name calling. If one cannot complain about unfair policies here then where can one? And if the "other guys" all have the same policy (which they do not by the way) that still does not make it fair.

Is the ENV3 a pda? Otherwise unlimited is only $10 if you've got unlimited text, or $20 if you don't.

No. Even on dumbphones $9.99 25MB and $29.99 Unlimited. Where have you been?

Ouch. Apparenty not following VZW plans. I thought we(I sell AT&T) were still towing the same line.

Nope! AT&T won't do anything this foolish unless VZW gets away with it. We shall see, eh?

Someone who is grown up enough to understand the real world. If only the others would do the same... 🤨

You guys swear that $10 is such---- a big deal! AT&T has unlimited data for $30 and you HAVE TO HAVE IT!

unlimited data for both att and verizon for smartphones is 30. unlimited data on att for dumbphones is 15 (10 if you have unlimited messaging)

No it is $10 if you are on a family plan.

Nope. 30 dollars for unlimited data and text. Menno is right.

I think Menno and I had this debate before 🤣

Oh crap... Yea my bad. I was thinking for AT&T. Sorry. I hate working for them. They take over my head! 👀

Well then don't get a smartphone. Simple

I hate the dumb replies about not getting a smart phone. Why not allow us to have a choice over using data or not? How about that? Your replies are just stupid Verizon representatives trying to appease people. When I was in the store there were two other people trying to buy phones who were so frustrated that they would have to add something they didn't want.

I asked the rep if they could just block all data and he looked like a whipped pup. I was very nice to him as I realize it isn't his fault, but he told me to go the Verizon's website and post my feelings as it might make a difference if enough people complained. I doubt it will make a difference, but I did it. He said many people were coming in that were not happy about it.

This g...
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Well they couldn't explain all those $1.99 MB charges and the FCC got involved. I guess they figured you know what screw this require data on all these phones. Now what are YOU Verizon customers going to do in response? That is the question, eh?

You know what, I agree. But like why would you get a phone that was mostly designed for the web? Honestly. I am a Verizon customer, but work for AT&T. Do you know how you can receive and send a picture? It uses DATA! So if you want to block the data you won't be able to pic text. That is the way of the world.

And I have a question which I guess would fit here. I can upgrade one of my 4 lines and I really wanted either the Eris or Droid. My kids have a Dare and EnvTouch, both with $15 unlimited data plans. If i get a new phone, my daughter wants my blackberry. I know my contract will change to add the extra data plan, but my son wants to replace his Dare with his sister's EnvTouch. Will that FORCE me out of his $15 unlimited into either the $10 or the unlimited $30 plan on the Env? He uses more than the 25mb and I will NOT PAY $30 for an LG (terrible phones imho). (They've had the crappiest luck with those phones, screens not working one day, then working the next, constant charger issues, it's ridiculous. Someone tell Verizon these phones are NOT...
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No. That won't force you out of the $15 Vcast Vpak. I would NOT call customer service or go into a store though. I would just dial *228 option 3 from the Touch.

Or do the ESN change online. If it forces a change, it tells you before you submit anything.

If your kids already have the $15 Vcast Vpack plans, switching from the Dare to the env Touch you already had won't force you into the newer plans. It won't include the Mobile Email app, which the newer plans include. But the newer plans also don't have Vcast (that's an extra $10 now), which you will continue to have on the plans you're on.

As you know, moving from the $15 VCast VPak plan to a Blackberry will be an increase of $14.99 ($15 up to $29.99). However, you probably won't (read: definitely won't) be able to add the $15 VCast Vpak plan back on once it's off that line.

Did you ever get the software updated on those older phones? I really don't see too many issues with the Dare anymore, though there a lot of them out there in...
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Ok, so you're telling me to switch the touch to my son on line BEFORE I switch my daughter to the blackberry so I don't lose the Vcast vpak plan...
And then if I don't like my new phone and want my blackberry back, I am SOL with getting back that vcast plan if I want to reactivate the Dare...there's no way to just go back to what I had before? I somehow thought there was. Oh well.
My son's Dare was replaced once right after he got it (internal screen crack) and actually the replacement one has been fine for over a year now. I don't know why he wants the Touch-that was 6 mos old when it had to be replaced for both screens intermittently working and the replacement (only wks old) is doing the exact same thing. Phone sometimes charges and som...
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No. You CAN'T switch your son's line to the Touch until the Touch is inactive. Once your daughter has upgraded to the Blackberry have your son power off his current phone. Power on the Touch and dial *228 and Send. Select option three. It will then prompt you for either the last four of the account holder's social or the Billing password. It will then program your son's line into the Touch.

Once your daughter upgrades her line and the Vcast Vpak feature drops...it is gone. Verizon does not offer that feature any longer. By the way, if you are still having trouble with that Touch, I would take it back to the store to be replaced BEFORE upgrading your daughter's line.

Thanks. Good point about replacing the Touch before I do anything...didn't think about that

The store I am helping out atm isn't seeing much of a backlash either (though keeping intensities in stock is an issue) People are grumbling about it, but when you show them the options, they either choose a non-data phone, or talk themselves into wanting data (seriously.. a customer went from "I just want a basic phone.. really? envy3 needs data? to.. well I guess I'll get the droid then since I am paying for data anyway."

a good thing for the store too (it's indirect) is that the sales they do make are more profitable because things like the chocolate touch and env3 were HORRIBLE for product loss.

I don't agree with the change either, as you know.. but I honestly think all verizon needs to come out with are 1-2 more "solid" qw...
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Yes. They need 1x only Qwerty phones.

Thats funny because I havent dealt with that at all. And to require data on a smartphone is not only an acceptable request, it just plain smart. I cant tell you how many people would buy a smartphone and insist that they wont use data only to come into my store two months later wondering why the have 400 dollars in usage charges. It takes every ounce of self control not to say "I told you so". 🤣 If you dont want to pay for data, dont get a smartphone and ATT still gives that option.

I have seen that and my response was usually, "I am very sorry but the charges are legitimate."

Exactly.

wouldn't adding data to a contract without any previous changes be a violation of the contract on AT&T's side?

Verizon is DARING you to walk away. They don't believe that you and customers like you will do anything but bow down and accept the new reality.

The roaming seems to be mostly divested Alltel, and the red (voice only) looks like some of the Alltel that was retained. At least, that's how it looks in my state and others I know very well.

They sell the E815 for $50. All their phones are the "classics" from Verizon, and all refurb.

Hell, I only need the lowest plan from them, plus texting. $20.95. The only thing I'm missing is smartphone support.

I should open my own store and sell this stuff. I wonder what I would need to flash all my old Verizon phones to.

I find the idea of working retail frightening. I don't mind advising the occasional Phone scooper on a rate plan or phone but the idea of having phones thrown at me is somewhat distasteful

retail would be great if it was helping people find a solution for their device/plan/etc and that was it.

But anymore as a phone rep you're expected to be a tech wiz, a customer service guru, the CEO of vzw (to give your customers everything for free like they "deserve") a therapist (because customers will unload stress on you if they had a bad day) and a nanny (for those annoying parents who refuse to tell their kids to stop running around and throwing dummy phones at each other)

No people just need to quit complaining and deal with it. They have their options. It's ridiculous how "adults" can be such crybabies sometimes when they don't have it their way. Business is business. You can't have EVERYTHING you want.

No but one can vent about it. Guess what... This is the place. Instead of telling people to suck it up and deal with it, perhaps you should find another forum to frequent. I've been here five years. It's not going to stop unless PhoneScoop ceases to allow comments like Engadget has.

I'm pretty sure it is going to happen