You know what I "shopped" a Cingular store the other day, and there phones were no better than VZW's. They only offered one blue tooth phone, they had far fewer camera phones offered than VZW and only one of there camera phones had video capabilities. Where is it that there selection of handsets is so much better, and feature packed. People throw out these things, but offer no evidence to back it up.

jhmlbrgr said:
You know what I "shopped" a Cingular store the other day, and there phones were no better than VZW's. They only offered one blue tooth phone.

But their BT phone was compatable with any BT automobile, wasn't it?

Verizon finally this August released their only BT phone, the V710, but they disabled the file transfer features which allow the address books in the car and handset to synch up.

People don't want to drive down the highway and tap little buttons when most of those controls and displays can be integrated with the automobile using today's technology.

Verizon is holding back on technology that Motorola has already developed. I purchased my $46,000 Bluetooth car and $400 phone at ...
(continues)

The v710 wasn't our only BT phone. Sorry for the inconvenience of pushing little buttons. It seems like you like to phone overall since you have kept it past the 15 day trial period.

schnozejt said:
The v710 wasn't our only BT phone. Sorry for the inconvenience of pushing little buttons. It seems like you like to phone overall since you have kept it past the 15 day trial period.

It's more of a safety issue than an inconvenience. The firmware update was promised the day I bought the phone; still waiting.

What is the other phone you now offer, that integrates with the typical Bluetooth car.

Nobody can get response from VZW on this. Why don't they post an official answer so we can make an informed decision?

We don't offer the Timeport 270c anymore, but none the less the v710 isn't our only bluetooth phone. The v710 is the only phone in our current line up that offers bt, but it wasn't the only one out of all the phones that have been offered.

What is the question you're not getting a resolution to? What other bt phones we offer, or the firmware update.

The firmware update was just something that rumored around through sites lilke this. There was never anything in the works for a firmware update. I apologize if the store agent said otherwise who knows where he/she got their info.

check out this phone its cool
https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=570 »

schnozejt said:
The v710 is the only phone in our current line up that offers bt, but it wasn't the only one out of all the phones that have been offered.

What is the question you're not getting a resolution to? What other bt phones we offer, or the firmware update.

Thanks for the response. Here is my situation which I put to Customer Service and never got a response:

I purchased a V710 phone in August to pair with my Bluetooth car but it has a defect in the firmware. The VZW store said you were working on a fix to be released in September, but it was never released.

I would like to return the phone now and cancel my family share plan so I can switch to Cingular and purchase a functional Bluet...
(continues)

The BT in v710 is not defective, it is defective relative to you because it did not meet your expectaion level. There are different functionalities of BT, the v710 doesn't support the functionality of file sharing.

It has come to be the norm when people here the word BT they automatically think of full functionality. Therefore, when you read or heard BT in the v710 you automatically thought that it would support all BT functions. This is clearly a marketing issue where a consumers expectation levels were greatly larger then what the business provided. I also do apolgize for the misinformation you were provided from the reps-there was no sort of communication from the higher ups about a software update or a possible software update.

IF...
(continues)

schnozejt said:
The BT in v710 is not defective, it is defective relative to you because it did not meet your expectaion level.

Well, Verizon doesn't meet the expectation level of any automobile manufacturer who offers integrated Bluetooth either !

AT&T, Cingular, Sprint, T-Mobile have the usual Bluetooth configuration that you need for a typical car, for a safe, integrated operation.

You're right ! It has come to be the norm when people hear the word BT they automatically think of full functionality. Why wouldn't they?

Because of situations like this.

Can't you do digit dialing and name dialing when the phone is linked w/ your car? Just say the name of the person you calling or say digit dialing to dial by saying the numbers; why would you want to have the address/phone book linked up if those features are available.

I demoed the v710 and the voice dialing worked really well, the speakerphone was amazing, the signal strength was awesome, and the overall feel of the phone felt great.

schnozejt said:
Can't you do digit dialing and name dialing when the phone is linked w/ your car?

The Bluetooth link breaks as soon as the car tries to get the contact list from the phone.

Out of the car, it is the best phone I ever had.

Without getting the contact list, I belive with 90% certaintity that you can do voice dialing.

schnozejt said:
Without getting the contact list, I belive with 90% certaintity that you can do voice dialing.

You're right. But there is no way to turn off that option in any car that integrates the address book with the phone.

Thanks for being more responsive than the VZW reps, though. Some of them acted like I should return the car.

Still wondering why Verizon won't make a public statement about this issue...

The various profiles associated to BT and supported profiles by the v710 are on vzw.com--it has been from day one.

schnozejt said:
The various profiles associated to BT and supported profiles by the v710 are on vzw.com--it has been from day one.

Great ! I went to www.vzw.com and did a search on "Bluetooth Profile" and got this page which clearly shows OBEX. http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/faq/blueto othprofile.jsp

Now, how do I access that feature on any phone offered by Verizon?

That is a question you would need to ask customer service--I'm not at work so I don't have that info w/ me.

Boxes bordered in red are profiles supported by the v710

first you need to fimilirize the phone with the feature.

find the feature:menu,settings,connection,blue tooth link,hands free,look for devices.

after the search results are completed,it will display a list of connected devices with in range of the phone.highlight the device you wish to connect press select,viola.

if you still have problems,check with store tech for soft ware upgrade

According to an email response to a question I asked of Motorola, there is indeed an update that will unleash full OBEX BT capabilities. I was told it would be out in November.

Running late, obviously, but I would just ocntact Motorola, not VZW.

Gregg Hill

schnozejt said:
What is the question you're not getting a resolution to? What other bt phones we offer, or the firmware update.

Really the only question is "How can I integrate a Bluetooth car with a Verizon phone right now"?

There will be 132,000 BMW's shipped this year with BT as standard equipment. Including all of the other car models, maybe a million total.

The V710 crashes as soon as any car tries to sync the address book, because the OBEX is disabled. My store says you offer no other BT phone.

Geez, some people have to get their facts straight here. First of all, Cingular and AT&T are on the GSM network, which has MUCH less coverage than Verizon. Yes, they do offer more minutes for your money, but look at a map and just concider the fact that your Cingular will not work half the places VZW does. Second, to whoever made the "seporate amp" comment, VZW's In Network area is now the same as it's regular America's choice coverage map. Third, let's tackle the "NO Roaming" Cingular cons their customers into. Yes, Cingular has NO ROAMING. However, if you are out of the Cingular area, your phone simply won't work, AT ALL! At least on VZW, if you are off network and in an emergancy, you can get the call through. VZW currently offers service...
(continues)

And forgive me for all of my spelling mistakes. Kinda in a rush.

Half of this "stuff" is/was not true.

Cingular now has the largest network in America. Not to mention free roaming agreements with T-Mobile. So basically you're looking at the combination of the top 3 GSM networks in the U.S. Where would you be that you needed a signal and couldn't get one. Beats me.

Another thing is this. M2M includes 46 million customers, larger than Verizon's 41 million. (Which I think are pointless numbers anyway because who is going to be calling 46 million people?)

Now THOSE are facts.

People still aren't understanding the roaming thing. Sure Cingular/ATT has roaming agreements with other companies. So does Verizon, that's the America's choice map. Cingular's roaming partners include all the areas on their coverage map. There is one major difference though. If you go out of that area on Cingular you will have NO SERVICE. On Verizon if you go out of your coverage area... as long as there is coverage there by someone you will still have service. Those are the areas that you will pay .69 for roaming, but at least you will have service. I can't imagine having a phone that you can't use just because their provider doesn't have service there.

Ahhhhhh, but you are combining the numbers of Cingular AND ATT&T. Can't do that yet, they are still seporate. Yes, it is true that Cingular will have a larger customer base once they aquire AT&T, however, as it stands right now, VZW DOES have a larger customer base (yes, even with the M2M). Second, Cingular does NOT have the largest network in North America. I have no idea where you get your information from, but it is wrong. Do me a favor and grab a Cingular GSM map, AT&T GSM map, and a T-Mobile map, and combine the three. If you can show me that the three combined has more coverage than Verizon, then I'll give you props. But I'm looking at the maos right now, and all I can say is good luck getting coverage in:
Most Of:
Vermont
Maine
Ne...
(continues)

one minor point. i'm in wasghington and Western Washington is fine coverage wise, even E WA is decent. i'm nitpicking i know, but not sure where you get most of WA not being covered by GSM

Well, as I look at the maps again, I can see where you have a point that it is not "MOST" of Washington State, but it is about HALF dead. Reguardless, if you compare it to VZW's coverage, VZW does have a lot more. My bad on throwing in the word "MOST", should have used "HALF". Sorry.

😁 well said... Customer base means nothing if you dont have the coverage... 🤣

Doesn't matter. M2M works for ALL AT&T AND CINGULAR customers. Its been this way for a few weeks now.

Cingular Completes Merger With AT&T Wireless; Creates Nation's Largest Carrier: New Cingular to serve 46 Million Customers With Largest Digital Voice and Data Wireless Network in U.S.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?A ... »

Cingular closes $41 bln AT&T Wireless purchase
Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:00 AM ET

NEW YORK, Oct 26 (Reuters) - Cingular Wireless said on Tuesday it closed its $41 billion purchase of AT&T Wireless Services Inc (AWE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , creating the biggest U.S. mobile provider.

Cingular is a venture of SBC Communications Inc. (SBC.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and BellSouth Corp (BLS.N: Quote, Profile, Research) ...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:
Cingular Completes Merger With AT&T Wireless; Creates Nation's Largest Carrier: New Cingular to serve 46 Million Customers With Largest Digital Voice and Data Wireless Network in U.S.

Is that sufficient enough? 😉

Honestly, no, it isn't. If two mediocre carriers merge to form one big mediocre carrier, no, that really does not entice me to switch to them.

Actually, that's not really fair to Cingular. Given ATTW's snafus of the last year, its more like one poor carrier and one mediocre carrier merging. ☹️

Lies

http://www.cellular-news.com/coverage/usa.shtml »

Doesn't work. 😳

Uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh...That was directed toward and in response to vzw22's comment. 🙄

As I've always said.. Cingular bought a sinking ship.. with AT&T's churn rate being soo high there is no way they'll be largest for long.. isn't it funny how the 2nd and 3rd largest carriers had to merge to get a larger customer base than Verizon.. and they didn't even earn it! Verizon has worked hard to be where they are now.. but it's all good. VZW will again be the largest wireless carrier by this time next year. And they'll earn it!

Isn't it funny that...VERIZON DID THE SAME THING!? The only network that I can think of that wasn't created by ANY mergers is Sprint. "Built From the Ground Up"

RUFF1415 said:
Isn't it funny that...VERIZON DID THE SAME THING!? The only network that I can think of that wasn't created by ANY mergers is Sprint. "Built From the Ground Up"

And it's not so great is it? Sprint PCS is a joke! Take a look at their ratings, they've slammed customers, they say their network is superior!! It's been tested, and it FAILED! Verizon Wireless bought a few companies started out with around 26 million customers, and that was only 4 years ago! They've kept churn low by taking care of their customers. That's why they are where they are today. We'll see tomorrow what 3rd quarter results are... you'll see why Verizon Wireless will stay on top... Excellent Network, Excellent Customer ...
(continues)

Okay so you're saying that the companies that created Verizon in the start were the best of the best? I don't think so. Cingular and AT&T are no lackluster companies. If Verizon could turn around a few companies and become as successful as they are, why couldn't Cingular? Don't let your bias toward Cingular cloud reality...

I'm not saying that at all... Verizon Wireless bought these companies and created a stronger better company. Remember before May of 1999 there was no such thing as Verizon Wireless. Verizon turned the telecom industry around! Cingular hasn't proved anything!

Cingular has been around for some time and year over year they haven't proved anything. The too have been rated, tested and they have failed.. facts are facts.

AT&T has been tested, rated and is way below average.

Cingular has been tested and rated and is mediocre at BEST.. Mediocre + Below Average / 2 = DOOM!

I'm not bias, I just read!

Okay, so basically SBC and Bellsouth JUST brought these two companies together, same as Verizon brought pre-existing companies together. If Verizon could turn these companies into the one company that it is today, why can't Cingular? That is my question.

What did Verizon's "root" companies prove to the industry in their time? Nothing brilliant or wonderful as far as I can remember. New Cingular JUST was born. Give them 4 years and maybe they'll have taken a leaf out of Verizon's book.

New Cingular is bascically just Cingular though. There is no NEW company. When Verizon was born it was a brand new company that dindn't exist before. Yes, it was made up of other companies... but it had total new leadership and ideas. Cingular/ATT is still just Cingular.

Man after reading most of these threads on this topic, I have come to a conclusion. For some reason Cingular users/employees come to this forum to debate with us Verizon users/employees. What's funny is that Cingular's forum isn't as busy, even after the merger has completed. Verizon has been #1 for so long, it's nice to finally get some competition. And since it takes two companies to merge to beat one Verizon, We will smile along the way and then grin in defeating your 2 companies. Work hard Cingular and AT&T, just because you have merged doesn't mean Customer base and cell sites are gonna help you churn more. How you win with customers is simple, not pretty phones, not cell sites with small coverage, THE SIGNAL you get while using t...
(continues)

Funny that you talk about 2 companies making one since it took about 4 or 5 companies to make up what is vzw today. Just an observation.

TMoFreak said:
Funny that you talk about 2 companies making one since it took about 4 or 5 companies to make up what is vzw today. Just an observation.

Yes but they weren't a $41 billion dollar buy outs going on...or "enhancing customer base" going on... just a response to your observation.

yessss... but we took 4 fully functioning companies and made them into one super-company... whereas cingular is vulturing on ATTWS's wounded/bleedin out status. 😳 😳 😳

You guys act like all of vzw's growth was organic. Just admit you did the same thing. You just did it better than Cingular.

yeah but the thing is that when we did it the end result was about the same size as Cingular is now pre-merger...the rest has been all us baby!!! Thats about 17 million "organic" customers...

and a couple billion dollars every quarter in cell sites... average cell site(locally...) costs 2mil... so that's a nice amount of new coverage every 90 days...

Again, I say, nothing wrong with aquisition growth.

pretty much what I said... All we did was take a bunch of already "good" companies with mostly "local" coverage, and merge them into a nice big nationwide company... think about clear-channel broadcasting, etc... one company, with stations in most of the markets nationwide... most of those stations started out indie, then got bought out by clear-channel...

Nothing wrong with that. Just pointing out that it was aquisition growth the same as Cingular. Good business. Every industry does it.

i'm rubber, you're glue, anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you... 😉

It's exactly fair at all to judge cingular's performance on the activity of their forum here. since not every customer knows about it, and 90% of the people here are people that work for these companies.

The customer states he wants facts. Not biased-ness. So stop with the "GO VERIZON/CINGULAR!! YYYYYEEEAHHAH!!! *headbutt*" and the "WE ARE THE BEST BECAUSE I WORK FOR THEM< AND I DON'T WORK FOR THE OTHER COMPANY, SO OF COURSE I"M GOING TO BE BIASED!"

I just find it funny that everyone's telling everyone else to read the facts.
"read the facts!" "no, YOU read the facts"

The customer wants PHONES OF GOODNESS. And yet you all bicker about company(penis) size. 🙄

JessiCSR said:
It's exactly fair at all

YAY! typo. Should have read "it's NOT exactly fair at all" sorry.

I don't get this testing stuff. A call is a call if I can hear the person what does it matter? I have ATT and it has never failed me I don't understand way you all argue about coverage and this stuff when 9 times out of 10 you are in one specfic area and never move far from it.

Your wrong. A large portion of a wireless companies revenue is from business customers. These users tend to travel quite a bit regionally and nationally. You may not notice the difference but many of these users do word of mouth leads to more customers.

no you aren't biased AT ALL...

Cingular was formed in 2000 and jumped to number 2 because of it's competitive edge... now They are number 1 and VZW is getting SAAAAAD.

That's great, what is the purpose of arguing over it. You guys sounds like a bunch of 12 year olds fighting over whether or not nintendo is superior to playstation or xbox.

we'll keep your opinion in mind...

barryefau said:

RUFF1415 said:
Isn't it funny that...VERIZON DID THE SAME THING!? The only network that I can think of that wasn't created by ANY mergers is Sprint. "Built From the Ground Up"

And it's not so great is it? Sprint PCS is a joke! Take a look at their ratings, they've slammed customers, they say their network is superior!! It's been tested, and it FAILED! Verizon Wireless bought a few companies started out with around 26 million customers, and that was only 4 years ago! They've kept churn low by taking care of their customers. That's why they are where they are today. We'll see tomorrow what 3rd quarter results are... you'll see why Verizon Wireless will stay on top... Ex

...
(continues)

BetterThanJake said:

RUFF1415 said:
Cingular Completes Merger With AT&T Wireless; Creates Nation's Largest Carrier: New Cingular to serve 46 Million Customers With Largest Digital Voice and Data Wireless Network in U.S.

Is that sufficient enough? 😉

Honestly, no, it isn't. If two mediocre carriers merge to form one big mediocre carrier, no, that really does not entice me to switch to them.

Actually, that's not really fair to Cingular. Given ATTW's snafus of the last year, its more like one poor carrier and one mediocre carrier merging. ☹️

Listen, Bottom line is that if you ask most people that are familiar with both services, all of them would say Verizon has...
(continues)

so.. your "friends" live all across the country?

You want ONE legitimate news report?

ABC's 20/20 said Cingular OWNED NYC.
Consumer reports recently said Cingular's GSM service was the best in the country(the previous report showed that vzw was better than cingular's TDMA). Which is also what most of those "people" judge Cingular on... is an old service that's been upgraded... I remember what it was like when VZW showed up... THEY SUCKED. Now they don't congrats...


Once again the only thing you have to prove that VZW is better is YOUR OPINION.
Here's a little fact for you:
CDMA inherently drops less calls because it has greater capacity... it's not better. it sacrifices call quality.... so when your VZW calls sta rt Uajdmnl...
(continues)

CainMarko said:
CDMA inherently drops less calls because it has greater capacity... it's not better. it sacrifices call quality.... so when your VZW calls sta rt Uajdmnl o jbd bl losh ii A87Y ;;KJD

YOU JUST PROVED IT. And CDMA DOES NOT sacrifice call quality, even you know that!! CDMA has proved to be superior in call quality against GSM!

THAT'S a LIE...

GSM has better voice quality than CDMA... it's been proven OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.... CDMA produces MORE WARBLE. That means that GSM offers BETTER call quality...

Show me ONE study that says CDMA offers better call quality. you can't... but i'll wait anyway.

The battle between GSM and CDMA technologies in India is hotting up! While the initial tilt was towards the GSM with players like Bharti, Hutch, Spice, BPL, Essar and BSNL preferring it, the TATAs and the Reliance have now entered the market putting their bets on CDMA. GSM stands for Global System for Mobile communications, and CDMA stands for Code Division Multiple Access. The GSM is built around the TDMA, or the Time Division Multiple Access concept.

Basically, the two technologies address differently the same fundamental problem of mobile communication, how to divide the finite frequency of airwaves between multiple users at the same time, or, how to make more than one person to carry on a conversation on the same frequency without cau...
(continues)

great.... you quoted an article...

OMG that means that CDMA is better! 🙄

at least he quoted an article instead of spitting propaganda like all test show GSM is Better....where is the facts or sources to back it up!!!???!!!

oh yeah, qoutes from GSMworld.com are not counted bc that is the most propagated site besides those dealing with politics!!!

jdhilzdsp said:
at least he quoted an article instead of spitting propaganda like all test show GSM is Better....where is the facts or sources to back it up!!!???!!!

oh yeah, qoutes from GSMworld.com are not counted bc that is the most propagated site besides those dealing with politics!!!

sounds like you just don't like facts...
yeah... gsm world doesn't matter... they only offer more FACTS than any other source...

OK ... you can't use info from ANY CDMA website.

Thats fine...lets look at OFFICIAL numbers from the FCC that can quantify a carriers quality.

IMO churn percentage shows customers overall satisfaction if they were happy they wouldn't leave, whether it be bc of promos or service issues.

VZW 1.5%
Cingular 2.8%
AWE 3.7%
Sprint PCS 2.7%
Nextel 1.5%

Please explain to me why Cingular has almost double the % of churn and ATT more than double.
If GSM is the best why do they lose customers at a higher % to their base? If the service is better, the promos are better, and the rate plans are better, then why?

Customer actions show carrier quality and if more people are joing VZW every Q and a lower % are leaving than anyone else, wouldn't that show a definite quality difference...
(continues)

Is T-Mobile's (which is a GSM provider) churn rate too low to consider? Would it make your claim that "CDMA is better because it has lower churn" statement look bad? Maybe I shall post T-Mobile's churn rate. 🙄

lol...Tmobile needs to just go away....there coverage map SUCKS

Their coverage map might not be wonderful, but it must be working. They added nearly as many new subs as Verizon did last quarter and I believe their churn rate is quite low too.

It's Catherine Zeta Jones...thats the only reason hehehe

T-Mo hasn't released 3Q info yet so how could you post their churn rate!?!?!?!?

Last Q they had a 2.7 i hardly consider that "too low to consider" HA

Hmmmmm...well I DID say "I believe...". Wasn't 100% sure on that. BUT, if T-Mobile's churn rate is that high AND THEY ARE STILL GAINING nearly as many subs as Verizon...that's pretty remarkable.

last Q was 1.535 million for VZW and 1.092 for T-mo (yes that is still a good number)

T-Mo(1.092) + ATT(15,000) + Cingular(428,000) net adds (1.535)in 2Q= VZW's net adds(1.535) give or take a thousand or two....interesting!!!

Ok.

So once this quarter's earnings are released by T-Mobile I'm anxious to see the results. I'm predicting that their combined new subs surpasses Verizon's new subs. Haha...that sounds pretty pathetic.

I still give T-Mobile applause for that unbelievable feat.

oh yeah they diffinitely get props!

🤣

the customers are going from one carrier to another....not to vzw. the dealers control the market

But what about all the background noise I hear when talking to someone on GSM? Isn't it all a trade-off? If GSM could have the noise-cancellation that CDMA has plus the soft handoff's...then that would be the best of both worlds!

If you REALLY REALLY look at it, they both have pro's and con's. Since VZW's network can't get overloaded with calls since they're tuned to only about half their total capacity.. no overloads, clearer calls!

🙄

I'm sorry... i can't hear you over all of the BS.

OMG... I just have to do it. That's because you aren't on Verizon!! Can you hear me now??

Naw, my cell works fine... but with all of this warble in the VZW forums, all i hear is "iuyuyt oo u jiuYy gvbgb lL iuu uyfr fyuio ojhh "

The only thing I can really make out is "number 2 number 2 number 2".

🤣 those are the number for now. Let's give it a year and see where we stand then 😉

isn't that what we are discussing?!? the quality currently! Will you tell a customer we currently have a subpar network but in a year we will be better!

ok... that's weird... it posted half of my post.. 😳

here's how it should have read...
Here's a little fact for you:
CDMA inherently drops less calls because it has greater capacity... it's not better. it sacrifices call quality.... so when your VZW calls sta rt Uajdmnl o jbd bl losh ii A87Y ;;KJD sounding like that, a gsm call will drop instead of wasting your minutes talking to digital gibberish. VZW isn't better, it's just different. you sacrifice quality instead of quantity...
That being said I have still had fewer dropped calls since I went GSM. It just depends on where you live... Cingular and even "crappy" att offered better service in SEVERAL areas over verizon, and verizon offers better service in other areas... there are ...
(continues)

OK lets look at the third quarter results.

VZW added 1.7 million customers in the third quarter

Cingular added 657,000 in the third quarter

ATT added 170,000 in the third quarter.


That means that VZW added more than twice as many customers as the second and third largest carriers did combined ( currently the largest carrier since they have now merged.). If VZW keeps adding customers at a two to one rate vs. Cingular we will catch them in customer base in about two years. I predict it happens even quicker than that though, give it 18 months. Cingular do not get to comfiortable on top, it will n ot last long.

if you say so.... i'll actually wait for the results...

Yes, because you're psychic. 🙄 Like someone stated before Verizon sucked when it first came out...but now it doesn't. How do you know this new cingular will not be the same? You don't.

What about the gentleman interviewed on 20/20 who was on Cingular in N.Y. and was ready to tell the 1st Cingular rep he saw to "shove-it" becauase he had so many issues with his service...could that have been just his phone?

what about the guy who says that about VZW... oh yeah... EVERYONE loves VZW 🙄

I remember a while back some folks were trying to think up drinking games.

How about take a drink everytime Cain mentions that 20/20 episode? Everyone will be drunk in no time!

So now you want to drag this argument into another forum? Go %^&* yourself shade.
You'd get more drunk if you took a drink when someone mentioned "JD powers" or "consumer reports"

How bout everytime shade doesn't know wtf he's talking about, someone drinks...

Or maybe we could drink everytime he thinks he's morally superior...

Or maybe we could get take a drink everytime some VZW guy can't prove what they are saying...

Or maybe when shade has no basis in fact for what he's spewing...

Shade it's one thing to %^&* with me in the discussion we are having, but to seek out some posts to try to %^&* with me is just being a BITCCH.

Oh, and if you want to continue being a punk, I'll be on you like religious nuts at an abortion cl...
(continues)

Yikes, again Cain, a joke.

And we did discuss the 20/20 JD Power thing awhile ago.

In all of the posts that I have made on this forum I never ONCE SAID or even SUGGESTED that Cingular had perfect, or even the best coverage. You DEFINITELY pulled that out of your @SS! My posts were in response to vzw22's previous posts arguring that Verizon had the largest network in the U.S. which I called him out on because, not including analog (which will be phased out in a few years), Cingular's DIGITAL network is the largest in North America. Read my previous posts, all the facts and links are there. Even vzw22 agreed with me on this FACT. Get your head out of your @ss and think before you write a post like this.

Cingular doesn't have the largest network in the country, if you dont belive me check out this 3rd party link below.

http://www.cellular-news.com/coverage/usa.shtml »

It is true the coverage is increased by alot w/ cingular, but see the old vs the new at

http://www.newcingular.com »

THOSE ARE THE FACTS

BTW, yes the phones kick the crap out of VZW models, but they are catching up quick on newer models like the vx7000, vx8000, av9900, and v710.

Sorry to come off rude, but I hate it when people point to something without backing it up.

I HAVE! And speaking of...one of your links doesn't work, and the other takes me to the "New Cingular's" website but I have no clue what you are trying to point out.

The fact is, Cingular is not legally allowed to boast "America's Largest Wireless Network" without it being true. Do you realize how fast Verizon would sue their ass? I really doubt Cingular is stupid enough to false advertise during the situation they're in. If they are boasting it, it's definitely true.

You haven't shown me any hardcore information that disproves my previous post. I had not just one, but two links stating the same thing. Cingular really DOES have the largest wireless network in America.

Do you realize that they have MORE THEN DOUBLED their coverage TODAY?! Where have you been...honestly.

they got more customers, not doubled the coverage. look at a map bud

I know they got more customers. If not doubled they DEFINITELY gained a significant area in their network. AT&T's network was comparible in size to Cingular's. AT&T's was actually larger. Yesterday Cingular served 87 of the top 100 markets. Today they serve 100 of the top 100 markets. Not every part of AT&T and Cingular's network overlapped.

Yeah show me the map the you insist on referring to. Any map that you show me is most likely outdated (even if by 1 day). Maps aren't very accurate depictions of actual service anyway.

Cingular has stated that it is currently the "Largest Wireless Network in America". As I've said before, they would not legally be allowed to boast a falacy such as this. They would be sued to oblivian and...
(continues)

Ok, RUFF, listen to me. I think you are not understanding what we are all saying here.... There are two different ways of interpreting "Largest Wireless Network in America". The first one (common sense) is actual coverage. The second interpretation is actual customer base. Somehow Cingular is getting away with saying they are the "Largest Wireless Network in America" but they mean by CUSTOMER BASE, NOT COVERAGE. Now to the public, this is kinda shady. Of course the public will interpret that as "Most Coverage" which is VERY VERY VERY not true. RUFF, I know you mean well here, but the facts are the facts. Yes, once the merger OFFICIALLY goes through (pending FCC approval) then Cingular will ahve the most CUSTOMERS, however they will not have ...
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No. You see, there are people that refuse to believe that "little" Cingular could surpass Verizon's supposed "untouchable" network. Yeah it does seem hard to believe, BUT Cingular now owns (estimating after divestures...if there were none they would own 47,000 cell sites) about 44,000 cell sites. Compare that to Verizon's 21,500 towers. Even supposing that a CDMA tower could service twice the area that a GSM tower could, Verizon would still have smaller coverage. And throw in T-Mobile and a few other small regional carriers' roaming agreements with Cingular, you have the largest network in America. Yes, larger than even Verizon's. If you want the proof on numbers of cell sites I have it just let me know.

You have your stories cross...
(continues)

Sorry, Verizon only has 20,500 cell sites.

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/aboutUs/wirelessN ... »

AT&T and Cingular WITHOUT DIVESTURES have 47,000 cell sites. (And I might add...this article is considerably old and AT&T and Cingular have been putting up new towers like crazy since February.)

http://www.cingular.com/about/new_leadership.pdf »

Page 7.

And if you really do like those maps take a look at page 9 of this link. I believe that includes all roaming agreements also. Compare that to Verizon's America's Choice map which also includes roaming agreements.

http://www.cingular.com/about/new_leadership.pdf »

well RUFF, i must say, good hard work put forward on your part. On question: do you know the difference between actual coverage (like with actual towers built) and a licensed spectrum? VZW has licensed spectrums in more areas than their actual coverage too. All that map on page 9 means is Cingular haas pre-approval to develop there if they choose to do so. Who knows if they will or wont. Keep in mind that is costs aprox $100,000 to build 1 GSM tower, and we all know that GSM signals don't carry all that far. I'm not trying to get into a heated argument here RUFF, all that i'm saying is that right now VZW does infact have the most actual coverage in the USA. Maybe that will change in the future, but you need to understand the difference betw...
(continues)

Thats just spectrum, not coverage.

"Cingular Completes Merger With AT&T Wireless; Creates Nation's Largest Carrier: New Cingular to serve 46 Million Customers With Largest Digital Voice and Data Wireless Network in U.S."

Verizon's lawyers would use those 4 words to tear Cingular apart if they could. The thing is, they can't sue over the truth.

And maybe there is one more thing to clear up here. Some of these covered areas I ma talking about is not actual VZW network, some are other small carriers that VZW has roaming agrements with. All we are all saying here is that your VZW phone will work in A LOT more places than your Cingular phone.

and with that said, it's time for bed. Back to the battle grounds tomorrow ya know. Nice debate by the way RUFF, you kept me busy all day LOL!

Haha...same to you vzw22.

Analog service fills a lot of gaps in Verizon's network. They aren't shown on Verizon's maps but when you can't get a digital signal you'll be roaming onto analog. When analog is phased out in a few years (which is iminent due to government decisions) Verizon won't have that signal in the "middle of nowhere" either.

yes, I agree that some of that is Analog. So I think we are really both right here. The "DIGITAL" part of your last state ment just occured to me. Maybe Cingular does have the largest DIGITAL coverage, but you have to admit one thing, VZW does work in more places than Cingular.

Agreed. And I'm really done this time too. 🙂

talk to you all tomorrow.

Actually cingular now covers 97 of the top 100 if I remember correctly, it might even only be 95 of the top 100.

it's actually 100... they bought the three other markets from triton pcs... keep up with the times.

Give me a website, im not doubting it, just would like the facts.

Like I said, they do serve 100 of the top 100 markets.

"The government approval permits Cingular and AT&T Wireless to begin merging operations, which include about 47 million subscribers and licenses to provide service in the top 100 metropolitan areas."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/26/business/27cellcnd ... »

That map is totaly whack. 🤣

Additionally, the coverage map for AT&T wireless on your line is deffinitely not accurate.

For example, the coverage in CA has only like two specks of coverage on it. WTF?!?

Actually, GSM coverage for AT&T (Pre Merger)covers the entire state!! Seems to me that the info on the website for other carriers isn't accurate either dunny. 🙄

This is my two cents.

There are spots that ARE NOT in the middle of nowhere that DO NOT get service with ATT/Cingular.

My house/half of the city is one of them. NO ONE but VZW can get a signal in my house. My mom has Cingular and has to go outside to talk. BF has to stand perfectly still in ONE spot in my house, or go outside. He lives 8 houses away and ditto for his house.

Half of the city doesn't work on ATT (that's why I switched over to VZW) and yet, they have a corporate bldg where I am.

Cingular service is VERY shotty where I live. You MAY get a signal, but don't worry, as soon as you hit "send" it's gone.

I have heard the same complaints from ppl in different areas, (east, southeast, southwest). And if you think I'...
(continues)

form follows function... it's the mantra of the VZW marketing team I guess. 🙂

And your really confident on bragging about roaming agreements with T-MOBILE???? 😲 not one company I would brag about having a roaming agreement with, what's the point in having agreements with other carriers when your phone is still not going to work???

Well if there aren't any GSM towers around, no it won't work.

But will verizon's phones work if there are no CDMA or analog towers around?

If there's no towers, there's no towers. YOu can't possibly use that as an argument.


All it really boils down to is picking the carrier that works best where you live. I know where I live verizon only has coverage on the main highways, but I live in a metropolitan area, and cingular covers it massively. Never had a problem. But In other places, verizon may work better, hell sprint or nextel may work better...it all depends on where you are. You can be the greatest company in the world, but if you con't have coverage where I live, I'm not going to pay for your service.

People need to quit mak...
(continues)

😁 i like "straight to the point" people
its true...its not "MY COMPANY'S PENIS IS BIGGER THAN YOURS". its "WHICH PENIS DOES THE CUSTOMER LIKE BETTER"

Ok answer this then...

Why cant you get NEW service with Cingular/AT&T if you live in Montana?

If you are the biggest and best company shouldnt you be able to cover more than Verizon?

And if you ever go to Montana you will notice, NO Cingular stores or kiosks. Until Cingular gets stores there Verizon has no competition. Anyone else agree?

You guys can have the 15 people that live there. Isn't that where the unabomber lived? 😉

But if the Unabomber wanted a phone he'd have to have Verizon. 😁

Maybe dealing with vzw is what caused him to become the unabomber?

But back to the discussion... Even if Montana only had 15 people in it, that would still be more coverage than Cingular, right? So therefore VZW > and not = Cingular.

yes, if you happen to be one of the 15 people in montana, you are stuck with verizon if you plan to go off the highway or away from the one stoplight in town.

Who cares? It's freaking montana. Mountains and woods. I'm SO happy verizon has coverage there. If we wanna nitpick, I'll tell you most of louisiana has crap for coverage with verizon but cingular has great coverage...Like I've said before...it's all about where you live.

Geez i didnt realize i hit the "flame on" button. 😳

well it's true through..we don't have coverage in montana, but you don't in louisiana...*shrug*

and long island(nyc) has crappy vz service and GREAT Cingular/ATT service....and long island has more than 15 people

PROTEL said:
and long island(nyc) has crappy vz service and GREAT Cingular/ATT service....and long island has more than 15 people

I believe you are very wrong........Long Island has GREAT VZW service...I cant speak for Cingular/ATT, because I dont know....However, I know that I have service almost everywhere I go, including if I go into the city, there is service in the Midtown Tunnel and in the LIRR tunnels.

i am not very wrong...i will admit that service may be different in different towns but i have retail stores out there and i have a lot of people coming in to get Cingular/ATT because vz doesn't work there. which part in Long Island are you taking about?

PROTEL said:
i am not very wrong...i will admit that service may be different in different towns but i have retail stores out there and i have a lot of people coming in to get Cingular/ATT because vz doesn't work there. which part in Long Island are you taking about?

I live on the north shore of LI.........I use the phone all over Nassau, Suffolk and NYC...No Problems....

how can vz be > if they are number 2?????

LOL

I'll agree with you here...GSM service is not a superior service to CDMA and AT&T's call quality is pure proof of that. Rollover is great but my experience is that those that are going to Cingular for rollover consistently have past due balances on their current wireless account. Basically the rollover will be useless for them because one late payment and bye bye rollover. Churn isn't the industry's worst but it is 3x higher than VZW & AT&T's well a net addition of 150k customers in the 3rd quarter due to a loss of over 1.5mil speaks for itself. These are industry published facts. Bottom line is there will never be just one wireless provider and there are reasons that different people chose different providers. Competition is necessary...
(continues)

Get your facts straight... the much heated GSM vs CDMA dispute is filled with pro's AND con's... and to hold ATTWS as an example is cheap... Cingular & T-Mobile have an awesome GSM network and that is not worthy of being posted? How bout the 80+% of the world running GSM? Let's ignore this in the CDMA dispute?

As far as rollover, where did you get that if you miss a payment you lose your rollover? That's is just false information... You earn rollover... Don't go over your minutes and you get rollover... If you go over your minutes consistently how can you earn rollover?

I agree with you on churn and the healthy competition, but I also agree with providing a solid argument... not just speculation or assumptions. Verizon is an awesome ...
(continues)

"Verizon has it's IN-Network (Although I hear rumors Verizon is considering TRUE nationwide mobile to mobile?! Any comments?)"

I thought vzw has already switched so that anywhere on their america's choice is in network

Hey everyone....Lets just be proud that we subscribe to the best wireless service and carrier in the US. Just because the 2 companies merged, doesn't mean they have the BEST wireless network. That belongs to Verizon. I had AT&T until last year, when I wanted to switch from TDMA to GSM. I was told by AT&T that the coverage on my part of Long Island was practically non-existent. I switched to Verizon and haven't looked back since. So let Cingular/At&t think they have the biggest (in terms of customers, not service...and we will see what happens with the churn rate), Verizon has the best.

By the way, I am in no way affiliated with any wireless carrier. I am an accountant that depends on my wireless service for business and personal pu...
(continues)

What I implied is currently if you're roaming the mobile to mobile does not apply... I have heard rumors that this may change.

do you even KNOW WTF you are talking about? Rollover DOES NOT DISAPPEAR EVER! Some ASS from VZW came up with that LIE along time ago. It's just NOT true. And you are basing GSM service on ATT's GSM? They are no longer around. You will have to start comparing yourself to the NEW NUMBER 1. Oh and 72% of the WORLD'S carriers agree that GSM is FAR superior to CDMA. That's why 72% of the world's carriers are GSM. More than 90% of the licenses for 3G are for UMTS... the next GSM upgrade. read a book or at least log on to a website and get some REAL info... you aren't going to get unBIASED opinions from your VZW supervisor...

CainMarko said:
do you even KNOW WTF you are talking about? Rollover DOES NOT DISAPPEAR EVER! Some ASS from VZW came up with that LIE along time ago. It's just NOT true. And you are basing GSM service on ATT's GSM? They are no longer around. You will have to start comparing yourself to the NEW NUMBER 1. Oh and 72% of the WORLD'S carriers agree that GSM is FAR superior to CDMA. That's why 72% of the world's carriers are GSM. More than 90% of the licenses for 3G are for UMTS... the next GSM upgrade. read a book or at least log on to a website and get some REAL info... you aren't going to get unBIASED opinions from your VZW supervisor...

Hey, Verizon customers are very happy with Verizon. Cingular and AT&T c...
(continues)

Yeah 47 million customers compared to your 41 million... yeah that's REALLY flocking to VZW... It's just not true. And the CHURN rates, like your network reliability tests, are based on INHOUSE reports... the fact is that CHURN is really a JOKE. Customers leave and comeback EVERYDAY. I am glad you are happy with your service, but that doesn't mean VZW is better.

Keep in mind that the only reason why Cingular has those numbers is because of the merger. Seperately VZW was number 1. When you add 2 companies together, 9 times out of 10 they will take over the number 1 spot until they can do something to retake their position. I see VZW making some major moves here in the next couple of months to compensate for the merger which is why I have decided to stay with VZW. I thank you all for your opinions and believe it or not it did help. Here is why I have decided to stay...

VZW is the only carrier that has true NO ROAMING...If you read the fine print the others say free roaming while still on their towers. With VZW you get free roaming no matter where you are. They have wireless agreements with all othe...
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although i am a VZW person here, I must call you out on this topic Untouchable. you CAN roam on VZW, unless you are on a nation plan. Those brown areas on the America's Choice map are roaming areas (when on an America's Choice plan). I see what you are saying, but be a little more clear in your statement. There are too many trigger-happy Cingular guys on here that are going to tear you apart because of your statement. I myself understand what you were saying, but word it a little differently.

uNt0uChAbLe said:
Keep in mind that the only reason why Cingular has those numbers is because of the merger. Seperately VZW was number 1. When you add 2 companies together, 9 times out of 10 they will take over the number 1 spot until they can do something to retake their position. I see VZW making some major moves here in the next couple of months to compensate for the merger which is why I have decided to stay with VZW. I thank you all for your opinions and believe it or not it did help. Here is why I have decided to stay...

VZW is the only carrier that has true NO ROAMING...If you read the fine print the others say free roaming while still on their towers. With VZW you get free roaming no matter where you are. They

...
(continues)

GET'em CAIN 😁 😁 😁 😁

I usually don't directly attack a company... but with all the lies and false information i've been hearing from VZW reps I now understand how they got their customer base... My question is do VZW reps lie about competitors because they don't know or that's how VZW conducts business? It's too many reps to call it a coincidence.

Tell us all how we are lying? Write a whole list of lies we are spreading, and all of us VZW peeps will respond to them. let's hear them bud!

Rollover Minutes - Stating false information of how rollover works and when the rollover minutes expire.

Cingular Nationwide Coverage - Stating we charge for Off-Network Roaming.

Cingular Mobile to Mobile - Stating OUR Mobile to mobile has to be IN network.

GSM - Not so much lying but in most GSM discussions Cingulars success is not mentioned... Apparently the only GSM carrier was ATTWS in VZW opinion.

Contractual Obligations - Although not bad I have heard some comments that we require contracts outside of phone upgrades and promotional rate plans.

Spectrum & Coverage - Although Cingular/ATTWS Have just begun the merger a lot of false info is floating around about what our spectrum is going to be and coverage... The merger is...
(continues)

This is simply a response to your question vzw22, not a debate or slander.

And ladies and gents, that's why speck is the man...


And don't forget about VZW crippling Bluetooth. I bet their executives are looking for a way to charge customers for bluetooth right now as we speak...

Just because I like poking holes in the oh so knowledgable ones theories:

New Cingular = 47 million customers
Old Cingular = 25 million customers with 1.2 roughyl new customers in the last 2 qarters witha ***2.7% churn rate***
Old AT&T = 21 millon customers with a whopping 165k new adds in the last 2 quarters and an impressive ***3.2% churn rate***

VZW = 41 million customers on its own with 2.9 million new customers in the last 2 quarters with an industry RECORD low churn rate of ***1.5%***

Churn rate is VERY VERY VERY important and you saying that it isn't, is a joke. Ask any businessman/woman how important churn rate is.

Now, New Cingular = 41,000(not sure of exact number) towers
VZW = 20,500 towers(old figures on both carri...
(continues)

well said. that's all i have to say. very well said.

the only TURD is VZW.... they've been trying to convince the US that CDMA is sooooo much better... it's not. Just look at SPRINT.... More dropped calls than ANYONE.

The reason you have "more coverage" is because you have roaming agreements with regiopnal cdma carriers... but you own less than half of your coverage... Oh and the NEW Cingular map will make VZW sad... It offers more Voice AND Data... before Cingular only had more data coverage, but they did offer a larger COMBINED network... Most of VZW's map is JUST voice... NOW, Cingular will offer more VOICE AND DATA. so polish up your own turds...

Sprint can not compare to VZW. First off all, Sprint leases a lot of their towers still from Lucent. Sprint drops calls because they do not lease enough space on certain towers and their callers get kicked off when it gets too full. VZW customers have priority over Sprint towers on shared towers, therefore, VZW does not drop calls like Sprint. VZW has the LOWEST dropped call rate in teh country. Look it up.

🙄 Does you're company work for you? Do you like your service? Are you happy? These are questions that you have to ask yourself. If you can answer yes to them why argue?

I have been with ATT for like 6 years or something similar. I've never had a problem with them I like them. I must say I am a bit nervous about the merger and what is to come but only time will tell.

You Verizon people seem to be happy with VZW so why argue with the "New Cingular" people coming in. It seems silly.

You know what, I totally agree with berry240's post. If you are happy with your current carrier, then stick with it.

Seems to me that it is a trade off. Are you willing to give up coverage in areas you don't normally go to get a better price, phone, service, customer care, etc? For people that only live in VZW coverage area they only have one choice. For those of us that are fortunate enough to live in (and do most of our stuff) an area that this covered by multiple carriers, we can choose what suits us best. Each carrier has pros and cons. For me TMo is the best option. For others it is VZW or Cingular. Can't we all just get along?

Oh seriously. I have friends that use every carrier in Hawaii. And if they're happy with their service...they should stick with it. I for one am happy with my service and have no intention of leaving...whether VZW is #1 or #100. The service I've gotten is second to none, customer service is excellent, and as basic as my phones may have been (previous to my 9900, all my LGs weren't even color) my phone works WHEREVER I go.

BTW, T-mobile is great as well...my mom uses their carrier and it works great for her. I think I'd go with T-mobile above Cingular/ATT if I were to switch to GSM.

Dont do it!!! lol!! 😁 I'm just joking what's the big deal with everyone saying that Verizon doesnt have nice phones I think they are up to date, Video/Camera I mean whatelse is there???

vzw22 said:
VZW has the LOWEST dropped call rate in teh country. Look it up.

Only according to VZW. It even says so in the fine print that flashes across the screen when they say "fewer dropped calls than anyone else". Watch your own commercials...

I have to back Cain on this one. Verizon does have an expansive voice network but their data coverage is not. Cingular's data is much broader in coverage. Still not as good as Nextel's data network but that's a different story.

actually, bro... cingular has the largest data coverage in the country...

Never claimed Nextel was larger in coverage - only better (in terms of reliability).

but what good is direct-connect if you need to call 911? or a non direct-connect enabled person? 🙂 🙂 🙂

Funny you should mention that....Nextel is working on interoperability with public 2way radio systems ie Police, Fire, EMS, etc.

Or just dial.....what good is m-2-m between a Verizon and AT&T customer? Comes out of your regular minutes as well....

riiiight... but around here at least, 60% of the time you can't "call" on a nextel phone, but you can direct-connect most of the time... my point was that, yes, indeed Nextel works here, but not as a phone, more often it's just a walkie-talkie... at least on VZW either your phone works or it doesn't...

SO......the Nextel has one redundant feature the Verizon doesn't....

Well if you want make that comparision with CDMA, I guess you can say the same with GSM where Cingular is world ahead of ATT when it comes dropped calls and such....and Cingular has roaming agreements as well...Before this merger I would wager a bet that Cingular had more areas covered by Roaming agreements than with their own native coverage...if we looked at native coverage alone VZW would crush you...With Data you have your points, but you no longer have the MTM point since we got that all together

CainMarko said:
Yeah 47 million customers compared to your 41 million... yeah that's REALLY flocking to VZW...

Actually, customer ARE flocking to Verizon... thats simply a fact, if you look at net adds. Verizon's adding something like 5 million customers a year, Cingular about a quarter of that, and ATTW has been adding new customers quite slowly indeed, due to their recent troubles.

And the CHURN rates, like your network reliability tests, are based on INHOUSE reports... the fact is that CHURN is really a JOKE. Customers leave and comeback EVERYDAY.

Sigh. I guess if my company had fairly crappy churn rates, I'd want to try to play that down too. Face it, both Cingy and AT...
(continues)

excuse me 2 percent isn't crappy or even FAIRLY crappy.... verizon REPORTS 1.5 percent... but there are industry watchdogs who are wanting to implement federal regulations on how those numbers are ACTUALLY counted.

Face it... you've never competed agains a GSM carrier this size... I'd be downplaying that too...

Face THIS... The only time a person would choose VZW over Cingular in any market is because a VZW rep lied about the coverage or some other nonsense about the competitor... You see it EVERY day at the store or even on this forum... VZW reps LIE THEIR ASSES OFF to get a SALE.

CainMarko said:
Face THIS... The only time a person would choose VZW over Cingular in any market is because a VZW rep lied about the coverage or some other nonsense about the competitor... You see it EVERY day at the store or even on this forum... VZW reps LIE THEIR ASSES OFF to get a SALE.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW? Facts are Facts, Cings network needs A LOT OF WORK!!! Their network has been tested and again it FAILS! Who needs to lie when you've got consumer reports, JD Power, Wall Street Journal, and other big name publications backing your company. That sells itself. No need to make stories up at VZW.

As the saying goes, if I had a nickel for everytime........I heard a Cingular customer say "I can see the tower from my house but I can't get any service".........

Oh and they sure know who's tower that is don't they? People still think cell phone signals come from a satellite! For all they know they're looking at a AM transmitter! For crying out loud!

if i had a nickel for evertime i heard "man i'm so sick of VZW, they think they are GOD"

CainMarko said:
if i had a nickel for evertime i heard "man i'm so sick of VZW, they think they are GOD"

Hee hee... good one. 😁

Just because you can see a tower doesn't mean Cingular is on it. The only way you can actually know your coverage is to ask a carrier representitive not a sales person for a tower map. Due to security reasons, they won't make a copy for you ☹️

JD power tested 12 cities... WOW! That means national to me! And all they do is call customers and ask... it's not like it's a Study on the technology... it's a poll of current customers.
Consumer Reports just recently stated that CINGULAR had the Best Network...
And who cares what the wall street journal says?

The ONE time Consumer Reports said that VZW offered a more reliable network, they also mentioned it was based on VZW's TESTS.
The recent Consumer reports study showed and "independant firm" did the study. It showed Cingular was better.

For EVERY publication you have that says VZW is better, there are 2 or 3 that says someone else is better...

Above all that, VZW's customer base speaks for itself.

VZW reps LIE THEIR ASSES OFF to get a SALE.

And no other commissioned salesperson lies besides Verizon reps? Reality check.

Not as many as VZW... just look at the misinformation, drama... you don't find that much misinfo from Cingular reps on this board... but every other post from a VZW rep is misinfo about Cingular... that just shows FEAR.

Look at it more as miseducation...we adv customers what we hear from others...thats how CSR reps learn most everything...by listening to others and how they handle situation. So how about if we say something that doesn't truthful match up with how it really is you correct us. But do it in an education fashion rather than a bashing fashion please. This forum is here for everyone to leaqrn not to here childish name calling and shouting matches. We are responsible for giving a great impression to customers that visit this website... treat each other as you would a customer in front of your face. Cain would you yell at a customer and call them an idiot if they said "Doesn't rollover only last for the 1st year of 2 year service agreement?" No you...
(continues)

CainMarko said:
Not as many as VZW... just look at the misinformation, drama... you don't find that much misinfo from Cingular reps on this board... but every other post from a VZW rep is misinfo about Cingular... that just shows FEAR.

There are some very unethical commissioned salespersons out there...working for EVERY cellular carrier. The fact that you've deduced that Verizon has more of them from postings on this website isn't exactly scientific.

CainMarko said:
excuse me 2 percent isn't crappy or even FAIRLY crappy.... verizon REPORTS 1.5 percent... but there are industry watchdogs who are wanting to implement federal regulations on how those numbers are ACTUALLY counted.

Well, you're excused, since you've conveniently forgotten that ATTW half of your company, which has been experiencing churn rates of around 3.4 percent recently.

What does that translate to roughly anyway? Avg ATTW customer sticks around 2 1/2 years, Cingular maybe 4 years, Verizon, 5-6 years? Yes, thats very significant, and if Cingy/ATTW can't improve that, they will lose that #1 customer base talking point the merger is giving them sooner rather than later.

F

...
(continues)

One thing that is being overlooked is that ATTWS is now owned and operated by CINGULAR... The numbers of ATTWS no longer matter at this point... What matters is what Cingular does with ATTWS... Cingular cannot be ruled out at this point because the rules have now changed and Cingular can no longer behave as #2... I don't say that VZW will simply lay down BUT Cingular is a competitor... As much as you try to deny it... The competition is there.

I accept the challenge...compitition is great for the customer...may the best company win!

Exactly!

One thing that is being overlooked is that ATTWS is now owned and operated by CINGULAR... The numbers of ATTWS no longer matter at this point...

Mmm...no, I'd have to disagree there. ATTW's execution (and other) problems do not simply 'go away' due to the merger. Thats a bit of wishful thinking, especially considering that ATTW is nearly as large as Cingular. If mergers automatically cured all, then you wouldn't have bad ones like Daimler-Chrysler or AOL-Time Warner.

What the merger DOES do is give Cingular an opportunity to FIX ATTW's problems. For the sake of competition, I hope they do, but it is by no means a done deal.

BetterThanJake said:
Cain, you are an excellent Cingular cheerleader, and I actually admire that, but going over the top like this can harm your credibility. Be accurate, be calm, and who knows? You might actually win a convert or two. 😉

Dude... I'd be a lot calmer if VZW could make a sale without lying. And to say they didn't lie to you doesn't mean that they don't lie to others... i tell you what mr. customer.... Call VZW customer care and tell them that you want to cancel because Cingular offers Rollover and VZW does not.... Here's what you'll here... "Cingular does offer rollover but a)if you are ever late with your payment cingular removes rollover b) they only last for one year so if you sign a 2 ...
(continues)

CainMarko said:
Call VZW customer care and tell them that you want to cancel because Cingular offers Rollover and VZW does not.... Here's what you'll here... "Cingular does offer rollover but a)if you are ever late with your payment cingular removes rollover b) they only last for one year so if you sign a 2 year contract you only have rollover for that first year c)if you ever change your plan, you will loose your rollover".

These are the "SAVES" taught by VZW to use for customers who want to go to cingular... they are also used as sales tactics by VZW reps who are having trouble closing a deal on a customer. These are all LIES. I am told the same thing by VZW reps ALL THE TIME.

If some Verizon reps ar...
(continues)

What does it mean on the new cingular website that the rollover minutes last for 12 billing periods? If they don't expire, then what happens to them?

Example: lets say you have 120 Rollover minutes from Oct. 2003, they are void come Oct. 2004, once they are 12 months old.

Similarly, next month in November, lets say last year you racked up another 100 for Rollover, they will expire in Nov. 2004.

At least all of your Roll-Over minutes don't expire all at once.. You don't start from scratch like some of these other schmoes imply on this forum. 😉

Disclaimer: This post is purely sarcasm

You are completely correct Cain VZW put out a corprate memo that told us to automtically say those things to our customers. Where do you pull this stuff from??? Just because a couple of misinformed people say this on this forum you think that the ENTIRE company talks like this??? Sounds like a conspiracy to me!!! Come on...VZW has 10's of thousands of employee and if you think that everybody talks that way you are wrong...there are over 700 people in my call center and I have never heard anything to any effect of what you are saying that "VZW teaches their reps to say"

Thanks THEVZWman.......we all know that VZW is the best service. Like I said yesterday, most people simply want to make and receive calls wherever they are. VZW is best at that. Look at todays news also..Verizon released their 3rd quarter earnings..VZW now has 42.6 million subscribers! We are catching up already!

On a another subject.....when will the CDM 9900 reappear?....I was told by VZW that it was not discontinued, but simply out of stock...

This convo is getting old.

CainMarko said:

Face THIS... The only time a person would choose VZW over Cingular in any market is because a VZW rep lied about the coverage or some other nonsense about the competitor... You see it EVERY day at the store or even on this forum... VZW reps LIE THEIR ASSES OFF to get a SALE.

You know Cain, I dont doubt that you are an intelligent person, but what you said above is probably the most rediculous, idiotic thing I have ever seen you type. Come on now, you know as well as I do that the majority of the time people sign up for service based on recomendations or past experiences.

wrong...they sign up because they are lied to. i work in retail and i lie all day long to keep up with the liars at vzw

not only that but, there are also a lot of situations where customer go with the cell phone company that fits them best...sometimes it swings our way sometimes not...but to say that the only reason that customers would chose VZW over Cingular is if we lie to them is not only a falicy but also slanderous...your desperation to try get people on this website to believe that VZW is Satan, makes you less and less credible to people that do and don't frequent this sight. It's almost becoming unbearable to see the lies that you yourself place on here...I did not orignally see that comment but in seeing your slanderous ways I have lost a lot of respect in someone that I thought was above all of that...Good day...

😢 don't get all emotional now. vzw is #2 and will continue to be less than #1 because they are a lying, greedy company!

vzwkiller said:
😢 don't get all emotional now. vzw is #2 and will continue to be less than #1 because they are a lying, greedy company!

Actually, nearly all companies are lying and/or greedy, to some extent. Such are the competitive pressures of the marketplace, and the 'reward RESULTS, not character' mentality of professional recognition and progression.

Sad, but usually true. ☹️

i agree with that but vzw's lying and greed far surpasses all

vzwkiller said:
i agree with that but vzw's lying and greed far surpasses all

What stores do you own in NYC?? I will know not to shop at them and be lied to..

lol....its call.....vzw 😉

Well I must say, you are a great advertisement for the service you sell...

i was j/k...i can't give you my store name....vzwman might come after me 😁

Nah not even close to NYC, although my roommate does have family in Brooklyn...do you like your kneecaps??? Cause I can get somebody to take em out for reeeeeeal cheap... hehehe

for cheap??????...is it vzw???? 😁

fuhgedaboudit

you sure they're not from SI?

vzwkiller said:
😢 don't get all emotional now. vzw is #2 and will continue to be less than #1 because they are a lying, greedy company!

🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
ignorance is lack of education..
p.s.
don't type unless you have something to say that isn't your own opinion..

hey rep(what a cool title) how much you make in a year??? bet i make more money in a year than you ever see in you whole life. you should put a mr in front of rep. you can be mrrep. how's that?? 🙂

you probaly dont want to go there about how WELL vzw reps are paid trust me!! 😁

no....i think i want to go there...u're probably right....vzw rips-off the customer to pay the reps as much as they do

vzwkiller said:
hey rep(what a cool title) how much you make in a year??? bet i make more money in a year than you ever see in you whole life. you should put a mr in front of rep. you can be mrrep. how's that?? 🙂

🙄

you must be grade school..that was a lame comeback!!!! dah!!!

oh, by the way, my $$$$ is much above the $50G range, I'll just leave it at that..

PUHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA.....stop bro...you got me laughing so hard....i got tears in my eye....whoooo....do you get $59G? WOW....my bad...you're right...you make more in a year then what i make in a month. okay you're cool now

Thanks Cain for making Verizon's Forum the one with the most activity in it.... 🤣

guess what, the rollover DOES expire. If you're working at Cingular and telling your customers that it does not expire, you are lying to them. You guys must have MAJOR training issues over there. Rollover lasts for 12 months, then in month 13, you lose what roller over in month #1. I used to sell Cingular and I know this is a FACT. Plus, and i dont know if this changed, but when i was selling them, when they first launched it if you ever changed your plan you lost the rollover and it had to start over again. Like i said, they may have changed that last part since i sold them, but i am right on the 12 month thing!

That's EXACTLY what I just said... They expire after 12 months if you have not used them. You still keep the rollover than have not expired... so NO I AM NOT LYING. YOU stated that rollover disappears IF you have a PAST DUE BALANCE. THAT'S A LIE. Oh and YOU have the "training issues". Rollover HAS never fallen off or STARTED OVER because of a plan change... IF that happens it's because the plan was not changed CORRECTLY. You KEEP your rollover if you switch to a ROLLOVER PLAN. More lies from an uninformed competitor.... 🙄

I am a csr for cingular used to work in the team that investigated rollover disputes. Rollover mintutes expire a year after you get them if they are not used cainmarko is correct. How that works is 10 october of 2004 you lose nay unused rollover mintues from october 03

yes, and I AGREED WITH THAT! You Cingular guys obviously aren't reading everything in my posts. I SAID THAT YOU WILL LOSE YOUR ROLLOVER FROM MONTH 1 IN MONTH #13! READ EVERYTING FIRST BEFORE YOU POST A RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!

I am reading just fine... you said

"Oh, and the rollover: read the fine print. If you ever change your plan, you start from scratch (at least it was that way a few months back when I sold them), and your rollover does expire after 12 months."

First part is just a blatant LIE. It's NEVER been that way... I don't care WHO you say you worked for. And you IMPLIED that rollover ends after 12 months and that's it. Another decption. I read ALL of your BS and you are just WRONG.

I think his whole meaning behind rollover expires after 12 months is that your minutes only rollover for a 12 month period. Then you start a new year/count, cause if you rollover from inception on that potentially could really nail the company bad.

rollover minutes "rollover" on a cycle... whatever minutes you gain in febuary will fall off next febuary. Then the same thing happens in march and april and so on... so if you have 150 extra minutes from febuary you can use those minutes until the next year instead of having to pay 150 minutes in overage...

CainMarko said:
I am reading just fine... you said

"Oh, and the rollover: read the fine print. If you ever change your plan, you start from scratch (at least it was that way a few months back when I sold them), and your rollover does expire after 12 months."

First part is just a blatant LIE. It's NEVER been that way... I don't care WHO you say you worked for. And you IMPLIED that rollover ends after 12 months and that's it. Another decption. I read ALL of your BS and you are just WRONG.

OK, AGAIN, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE NOT READING WHAT I HAVE SAID IN OTHER POSTS. ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT YOUR ROLLOVER LASTS FOR 12 MONTHS. EXAMPLE: ROLLOVER FROM OCTOBER OF 2004 WILL EXPIRE IN OCT OF 2005, NOVEMBER OF 20...
(continues)

No need to SHOUT!! Let's keep it civil here people. I think that everyone already knows that all rollover minutes are is a marketing ploy that Cingular created to gain market share. Cingular reps seem to be the ones that lie in this forum...

Why do you call it a marketing ploy? Do you understand how rollover works?

first of all, I NEVER said that your rollover expires if you have a past due. Go back and read all the posts on this subject and see who said it because i did NOT. And apparently you didnt read my last post about different offers and conditions in different markets. Geez...

CainMarko said:
That's EXACTLY what I just said... They expire after 12 months if you have not used them. You still keep the rollover than have not expired... so NO I AM NOT LYING. YOU stated that rollover disappears IF you have a PAST DUE BALANCE. THAT'S A LIE. Oh and YOU have the "training issues". Rollover HAS never fallen off or STARTED OVER because of a plan change... IF that happens it's because the plan was not changed CORRECTLY. You KEEP your rollover if you switch to a ROLLOVER PLAN. More lies from an uninformed competitor.... 🙄

also not ALL of them expire, just the minutes that are 12 months old..it's a rolling 12 months

TAHT'S WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, I'M DONE WITH THIS TOPIC. YOU GUYS ARE NOT READING EVERYTHING I AM SAYING, OR NOT UNDERSTANDING IT AT ALL!

YOU NEVER SAID THAT! LIAR!! Point me to the post where you said that...

He Said:

Rollover lasts for 12 months, then in month 13, you lose what roller over in month #1.

hell, it says that right on cingular's site...

He SAID IT AFTER THE FACT!!! Read the posts BEFORE that. he NEVER SAID IT UNTIL HE WAS CORRECTED!!!

CainMarko said:
Oh and 72% of the WORLD'S carriers agree that GSM is FAR superior to CDMA. That's why 72% of the world's carriers are GSM.

Mmm... not exactly.

Europe, for example, is all GSM because European regulators TOLD them that they HAD to be, because they wanted to standardize from the get-go. And Europe is a huge mobile market, and a large part of that '72%' figure you're mentioning.

Best you can say is... "GSM- the #1 choice of European regulators!!!" 😉

It's the world... GSM is the leading technology for the world... It was 80% Last I checked although Cain's percentage may be accurate... (http://www.gsmworld.com)

What part of 'a large part of that 72% is Europe, which MANDATED GSM' was not comprehensible?

Take a broader look at the US, and a step back from your own carrier loyatly, and you will see the reason why wireless technology in the US hasn't progressed as far as it has in Europe or Asia is due to the fact their are a handfull of different technologies being used. Think about how great national coverage would truly be if the US gov't had mandated a standard in the US.

southwestcomm said:
Take a broader look at the US, and a step back from your own carrier loyatly, and you will see the reason why wireless technology in the US hasn't progressed as far as it has in Europe or Asia is due to the fact their are a handfull of different technologies being used. Think about how great national coverage would truly be if the US gov't had mandated a standard in the US.

Is that really true? To my knowledge, Japan and South Korea are the most advanced wireless markets in the world, and both have a mix of technologies.

Japan uses GSM/UMTS mostly....

For now!

CainMarko said:
Japan uses GSM/UMTS mostly....

But obviously CDMA has a foothold.

The point was, government mandates aren't required to produce an advanced wireless market.

A foothold is ALL they have...

112 million customers subscribe to CDMA world-wide... that means VZW consists of almost 40 percent of that subscriber base...

GSM has 1.5 BILLION customers... more than 10 times the customers of CDMA. CDMA is a FAAAAAAAAARRR 2nd place... they have 13% of the world wireless market place... GSM has 72%.
If you take away europes "mandated" gsm customers, GSM still has 1 BILLION customers ...

These are the latest stats the I've run across (Sept 2004):

Global Mobile Users

1.52 billion

Analogue Users
34m

US Mobile users
140m

Global GSM users
1.25 billion

Global CDMA Users
202m

Global TDMA users
120m

Total European users
342.43m

Total African users
53m

Total 3G users
130m

Total South African users
19m

#1 Mobile Country
China (300m)

#1 GSM Country
China (282m)

#1 in Handsets 2Q04
Nokia(35.5%)

#1 Network In Africa
Vodacom(11m)

#1 Network In Asia
Unicom (153m)

#1 Network In Japan
DoCoMo

#1 Network In Europe
T-Mobil (28m)

...

So, ignoring the mandated Euro users, its more like 900 million GSMers vs 200 million CDMA users. Advantage GSM, certainly, but again, my...
(continues)

hey man.... you need to visit:
http://www.cdg.org »

according to the cdma group CDMA has 112 million NOT 200 million.... you're counting like VZW counts.

CainMarko said:
hey man.... you need to visit:
http://www.cdg.org »

according to the cdma group CDMA has 112 million NOT 200 million.... you're counting like VZW counts.

Uhmm... Cain, according to the site you just referred me to, there's 212.5 million CDMA users, not 112:

http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma%5Fsubscriber%5Frep ... »

The CDMA industry posted yet another record quarter, adding nearly 10.5 million users in 2Q 2004 to reach 212.5 million subscribers worldwide. During the first six months of 2004, CDMA added 24 million new users.

I think your confusion may lie with the fact that CDMA2000 reached 100 million.

You count like George Bush speaks English? 😉
...
(continues)

BetterThanJake said:

CainMarko said:
hey man.... you need to visit:
http://www.cdg.org »

according to the cdma group CDMA has 112 million NOT 200 million.... you're counting like VZW counts.

Uhmm... Cain, according to the site you just referred me to, there's 212.5 million CDMA users, not 112:

http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma%5Fsubscriber%5Frep ... »

Btw Cain, even though that site showed you to be in error, I wanted to thank you for referring me to it... it is indeed a source of a lot of good information, and I did not know of its existence until you mentioned it.

NP..
Here's some other sites you might get some good info from...

http://www.gsmworld.com »
http://www.umts-forum.org »

ok... my bad... 212 million.... i was reading wrong or smoking crack or something...
However...

I never said CDMA was shrinking. I said CDMA probably won't last through 4G.
The entire reason the wireless industry is even THIS active is because of one thing... GSM.
So even CDMA owes ALL of it's succes to the technology that caused the wireless revolution...GSM.
It set the standard and hasn't looked back.

here's some more facts for you:

" Nine out of twelve of the world’s leading operator groups have chosen the 3GSM route to next generation deployment. Two – both Chinese – have yet to make formal decisions. Only one has chosen to go in another direction."

" Operators have invested in GSM not just for the technology but becau...
(continues)

there's plans for WCDMA in q4 of `06 man...

No... North america has more GSM users than CDMA.

And here's why you should worry about what they say...

4 North American CDMA carriers switched to GSM. ZERO North American companies have switched from GSM to CDMA.

Here's another reason:
90% of the available 3G licenses have been allocated to UMTS/3GSM. That means that MANY cdma companies have givenup on 3G cdma and are switching to UMTS. Vodaphone strongly recommended that VZW also choose UMTS.
Now you have even Qualcomm switching gears to UMTS. Why is that you ask? Even qualcomm sees the limitations in CDMA and the expandability of GSM. There may not even BE a 4G upgrade to CDMA...

CainMarko said:
No... North america has more GSM users than CDMA.

Uhm... nope, that doesn't seem to be true. Again, according to the site that YOU told me to go to:

North America

Following a record 1Q 2004, CDMA operators in North America reported strong performance again in 2Q, adding more than 16.7 million new users. With 24% annual growth, CDMA outpaces the overall market 2:1. CDMA further strengthened its market leadership in the region; it now has nearly 47% market share, up from 44% in June 2003, and more than the other leading technologies (GSM and TDMA) combined.

http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma%5Fsubscriber%5Frep ... »

Again Cain, I'm simply using your ...
(continues)

/me hands >Jake the jackboots... make with the stopin man. 😳

Not trying to 'stomp' anyone, Sponge... I actually think Cain is pretty cool, though not always correct.

right, But I love to watch someone post a link and then get owned by their own link... =)

Well, yeah, thats true.

If I were Cain, I wouldn't ignore it, I'd just do a post called "DOH!" so we could all crack up (him included). 😎

of course... if you actually KNEW of link...

Ok here ya go....

http://www.gsmworld.com »

According to the CDG... there are 85.6 million CDMA customers in North America.

According to GSMWORLD, at the end of 2003, North America consisted of 16% of the entire GSM market. Now, GSM added it's 1 BILLIONTH customer in January of 2004... what IS 16% of 1 billion...
almost DOUBLE that of the amount of CDMA carriers. The statistic you are reading does not include the fact that 4 CDMA carriers in north america converted to GSM in 2003.

Soooooo.... I think I am correct here.

and 84.6 are probably not happy and waiting for their contracts to end...... 😁

dare I ask which 4? Remember, there's only like 22 cell companies in the US... down from 36 in q4 of 03 IIRC...

Hey Cain...
Guess I want to throw my 2-cent's worth in here and also see if you can convince me that switching to Cingular or T-Mobile would be in my best interest. I have no doubt that you are knowledgeable, know GSM and Cingular very well. I agree to some degree about the figures in regards to customer base and coverage...but what I can't seem to understand is why when I go to various sites like "www.cellreception.com" (Mobiledia.com) & forum/comment sections like in "www.LetsTalk.com" (for expample)...both have area's for people to comment good or bad about their service. CellReception.com has a place to list "dead zone's". On these sites I see the most complaints for AT&T-gsm, Cingular, Nextel, T-Mobile, then Verizon...in that order...
(continues)

Have you looked into the global phone option that verizon offers?

Yes...but the phone is kinda expensive!

Your right 🙂 but sounds like by the time your eligible to upgrade it will be cheaper just an option 😉

Also a lot of the GSM carrier's rates without a pre-paid sim are like $1.49 to $2.49 a minute or higher depending on Country...T-Mobile's are $.99 -cent's a min for France, England, Amsterdam, etc. What are Cingular's rates now? Has anyone used the Verizon "rent a phone" GSM-program? Rates?

CainMarko said:
Ok here ya go....

http://www.gsmworld.com »

According to the CDG... there are 85.6 million CDMA customers in North America.

According to GSMWORLD, at the end of 2003, North America consisted of 16% of the entire GSM market. Now, GSM added it's 1 BILLIONTH customer in January of 2004... what IS 16% of 1 billion...
almost DOUBLE that of the amount of CDMA carriers. The statistic you are reading does not include the fact that 4 CDMA carriers in north america converted to GSM in 2003.

Soooooo.... I think I am correct here.

I don't think you are Cain, sorry.

Aside from the fact that CDG was pretty clear about the matter:

[CDMA] now has nearly 47% market share, up from 44% i ...
(continues)

I just thought of something. I wonder if the difference in figures could have to do with "North America". North America isn't just the US. Maybe some of the figures are US only and maybe some are for all of North America. That could be the difference in stories.

Could be... its always iffy when ppl use extrapolation with figures or don't really research the stats thoroughly.

Regardless, there does appear to be more folks on CDMA than on GSM in both the US alone and in North America as a whole (though I'm sure some of the smaller countries are exceptions).

I think what throws the GSMers off is the fact that a lot of folks that they think would be on GSM are still on TDMA.

Blah, Blah, Blah 200 million this... 100 million that.. WHO CARE'S??? 😳 That's the problem now too many people choose to "follow" the crowd that's why there are so many GSM users a whole lot of follower's the fact is Verizon Wireless has the best Network... and they use CDMA I can ride from New York to Florida with my friends who have GSM carriers because they are "cheap" and drop a call maybe once, and listen to them the whole ride asking to borrow my Verizon Wireless phone since their "GSM" phone doesn't have service in a particular area which is most the time the whole ride.

Look at the why verizon, why cdma thread... read the part about handoffs... it kicks butt!

My point was not to promote one technology over another rather make the point that the mulitple, and non-compatible, networks in the US has been a factor in the slow growth of new wireless technologies.

"Follow the crowd"?

That's funny because the only people who say that are Verizon... No one else says it about verizon... and they only say it with the familiar "results based on Verizon's OWN testing" disclaimer.

So exactly which HERD are you following? Oh yeah the 13% herd... Yeah sorry... I'll "follow" the 72% herd on that one... considering they make a better product.

You guys keep saying that CDMA is better than GSM...
Sony said that Beta was better than VHS...
we all know who won that one... even if CDMA was Better(it's not.. just being he devil's advocate), it doesn't matter... what matters is what PEOPLE want. And the answer was VHS... and GSM for mobile phones.
But we all know that the real money wasn't made until DVDs...
(continues)

somebody give this guy a book report to do I think he's bored..... 😕

As I stated before... and I might be releasing info I shouldn't be, but there is definitive talk of WCDMA deployment in all major markets in late 05 or mid 06...

If people want gsm phones sooooo bad here in the US then why is it that quarter after quarter after quarter VZW get's more adds than the 3 major GSM companies in the US...

3q 2004:

VZW - 1.7 MILLION

Cingular, ATT - 827,000

T-Mobiles results still have not been released

Once again you are WRONG. Europe counts as a whopping 23% of the entire GSM market. Why did the other 77% of those carriers choose GSM? Because it's BETTER.
Even without that European market share that leaves about 60% of the wireless industry as GSM. Why did they choose GSM? They saw the successes that Europe had with it. They saw the advantages of GSM over CDMA. Even Europe knew CDMA was just around the corner and they liked the GSM idea better.

If CDMA is sooooooo much better, why is qualcomm looking to get in the UMTS/3GSM market? Aren't THEY the biggest supporter of CDMA? Why would THEY want to do something else? Even Vodaphone begged VZW to go with UMTS. It has a brighter future... CDMA might not be around in 10 years... all of th...
(continues)

CDMA is the better technology. Don't take my word on this-rather refer to the following websites & its links.

www.mountainwireless.com


www.sfbacell.com

ATTWS went with GSM because the company that sells GSM equipment also purchased 16% of ATTWS.

Europe mandated GSM. Europe being so compact geographically can easily get by with a GSM network.

Mexico also recently switched to GSM.

None of this makes it better.

The GSM network works best at the 800 bandwidth; problem is most the the GSM network is 1900 bandwidth.

Just like politics, cars, & cel phone providers, the best is sometimes subjective.

In communications, the more traffic that can be carried on a piece of equipment the better. This is where CDMA is superior...
(continues)

I personally don't understand the difference so if someone could explain it that would be great. All I understand is that I have a lot more fun stuff to play with on my phone since getting GSM.

I bet your phone works fine too...
Well the difference is this... back in the early 90's most companies decided to use GSM as a "standardized" un licesned technology that was open ended... some companies chose CDMA...

The cdma companies chose CDMA because it offered a FASTER way to the 3G technology... but as the world id finding out, GSM offers the BETTER upgrade path to 3G... even qualcomm(granddaddy of CDMA) is opening up to the GSM family and is considering UMTS(3rd gen GSM) as it's next form of technology...

GSM just offers MORE.... but none of that really matters if all you are doing is making a simple phone call.... you can get ANY carrier for that.

I can speak for a lot of people who just want service to make a simple phone call......wherever they are and whenever they want...and VZW does that best.

Word of mouth is the best advertisement.... Thanks Mark!!!

That's so true. You can ask anyone around here who is the best and they will say Verizon. I had AT&T one time at myself. That was a few years ago. At the time I never really thought they were too bad. I decided to switch to Verizn because my family had them. When I did I was amazed at the difference. I went from something that I didn't think had a problem to something that was SO MUCH better! I've had several people switch and they just can't believe the difference. I also have a friend that has Cingular and she is about ready to throw the phone out. Sometimes it's all she can do just to get a call to go through or receive one. I tried and tried to get through to her a few weeks ago and just got nothing!

No it DOESN'T. You cannot PROVE that VZW does that best. The closest thing to "proof" you have is that JD Powers Surveyed customers from 12 cities and they said they liked Verizon.... WOW. 12 cities.... I can pick 20 cities that Cingular has better coverage than VZW just off the top of my head. So where is your PROOF?

canddmeyer said:
CDMA is the better technology. Don't take my word on this-rather refer to the following websites & its links.

www.mountainwireless.com


www.sfbacell.com

ATTWS went with GSM because the company that sells GSM equipment also purchased 16% of ATTWS.

Europe mandated GSM. Europe being so compact geographically can easily get by with a GSM network.

Mexico also recently switched to GSM.

None of this makes it better.

The GSM network works best at the 800 bandwidth; problem is most the the GSM network is 1900 bandwidth.

Just like politics, cars, & cel phone providers, the best is sometimes subjective.

In communications, the more traffic that can be carried on a piece of equipment the b

...
(continues)

CainMarko said:

as far as your "what can hold the most", that's just utter BS. who cares if your signal can hold more conversations if they ALL SOUND LIKE CRAP. GSM offers THE BEST VOICE QUALITY TODAY.

Eh? You sure, Cain? My CDMA calls sound very good indeed, better than my friends' ATTW GSM calls. Of course, its possible that my phone is simply superior to hers.

Also, some folks are saying that GSM has poorer voice quality than even TDMA, for example, Morgan Stanley:

"GSM was a great opportunity for AT&T Wireless, but it was also a huge CRM challenge. The company had to convince its old customers to move off TDMA, which worked as well as most other carriers' networks for voice calls, and ont ...
(continues)

CainMarko said:
Once again you are WRONG. Europe counts as a whopping 23% of the entire GSM market.

Hee hee... someone needs to lay off the caffeine. 😁

My point was that the dominance of GSM as a carrier CHOICE is overestimated, due to the actions of the European regulators and their mandate. And in that, I was obviously RIGHT... as you yourself just pointed out, Europe is a sizable chunk of the 72% worldwide share stat. But hey, thanks for playing.

Btw, you do know that the average customer doesn't really give a fig about CDMA, GSM, or any other acronym anyone throws at 'em? They just care about what works. Thats probably why Verizon's growing so darn fast. 😉

Btw, I applaud your use ...
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Bingo I am one of those customers! I just moved to about 3 months ago GSM and it works for me plus I have a new phone with all kinds of fun little features and toys

Europe isn't 23 percent of 72 percent... it's 23 percent of 100 percent of GSM. 23 percent comes to about 350 million... which still leaves GSM with more than a BILLION customers...

See... when GSM and CDMA was "handed out" to the rest of the world... operators KNEW what their options were going to be over the next 10 years when they chose their technologies... This wasn't a flip in the wind decision... Most carriers chose GSM. Europe also CHOSE GSM over CDMA... CDMA was being developed at the same time and Europe KNEW what they were doing...


Oh... Juggy does RULE... I like his mentality: NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!! 😎

Could we please not getting into the GSM CDMA penial measuring contest again...for the Christ and all that is Holy!!!

Yes... especially since GSM vs CDMA doesn't matter a fig to the consumers that will determine who actually wins the carrier wars, and who don't even know what those acronyms mean...

Ok you are a liar. Rollover expires on a 12 month cycle.... whatever rollover you get in febuary will expire by NEXT febuary if you do not use them... the same thing happens for march and so on... ROLLOVER DOES NOT DISAPPEAR BECAUSE YOUR CHANGE PLANS. The only time that happens is if you change to a PLAN THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE ROLLOVER. Your comment about "it used to be that way" is also a lie. It's NEVER BEEN THAT WAY. EVER. And your map WAS only slightly larger than Cingular's GSM map. You had a 10% larger network... mostly due to roaming agreements... look at your OWNED coverage and your coverage was smaller even before the ATTWS buyout... Currently Cingular offers a LARGER VOICE AND DATA NETWORK than VZW. Cingular's DATA network has been ...
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actually, i was told when it was first launched that if you changed your plan, you would lose any rollover that you had and you would have to start from scratch. Also, note that in my last post I said that i wasn't sure what their policy was on that anymore, since i haven't sold Cingular for about a year now. If that isn't true anymore, than i'm sorry, but i covered my ass on that topic. Also, you do know that promotions have different conditions from market to market don't you? Manybe that was the case in our market and not yours. And no I didn't get fired from Cingular. I didn't work for them directly. I worked at an agent which sold VZW, Cingular, AT&T, T-Mobile, Nextel, and Sprint at that time (I am now with VZW). Actually, Cingular offe...
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Well, since that "policy" never existed, that just means you are WRONG. My "bashing" of you has nothing to do with "making my company look better"... it comes from the fact that you are WRONG. AND ROLLOVER POLICIES ARE NOT MARKET SPECIFIC. there are a few things like act6ivation fees and certain plas that are market specific, but Rollover isn't one of them. You admitted that you worked for a 3rd part dealer... and you want to claim THAT as your knowledge base? 🙄 3rd party dealers do one thing really well... they sell phones. They aren't the most reliable sources of information...
Even IF my point was to make Cingular "look better"... are you saying that you trashing cingular isn't trying to make VZW look better? The whole point of you...
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OK, rollover is not makret spacific huh? then explain to me why when it first rolled out, you needed to be on a $59.99 or higher plan to get the rollover in some markets, and only a $39.99 in others?!?!?! And AGAIN, this may have changed now, I am talking about ONE YEAR AGO!!!!! Why can't I gut this through anyone's head?????

Ok.... WRONG! I have worked here for going on 3 years now. ROLLOVER WAS NEVER LIKE THAT.
ALL PLANS OF 39.99 GOT THE ROLLOVER. PERIOD. That has changed to only NATIONAL PLANS, but rollover is still there. It NEVER CHANGED. YOU ARE JUST WRONG. Did you say just rolled out? Rollover has been around as long as I have... longer.

Who cares about rollover?! You lose your mins after a period of time, you lose your mins if you change your plan and you lose your mins if you're late on a payment! Peter Ritcher even said that rollover has done nothing for the company. Look at the company's profile year over year... it speaks for itself.

barryefau said:
Who cares about rollover?! You lose your mins after a period of time, you lose your mins if you change your plan and you lose your mins if you're late on a payment! Peter Ritcher even said that rollover has done nothing for the company. Look at the company's profile year over year... it speaks for itself.

When are you IDIOTS at VERIZON going to LEARN?

ONE LAST TIME FOR THE RETARDS WHO DON'T GET IT.

YOU do NOT lose rollover if you are past due. That's a LIE.

And who the %^&* is "peter richter"? I don't show anyone listed by that name that works for Cingular. You are correct to state that rollover has done nothing for our REVENUE, but our customer base has increased by a buttload...
...
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He's your CFO.. learn a lil about ur company!

WHO SAID YOU LOSE ROLLOVER IF YOU'RE PAST DUE? PLEASE TELL ME.....

Cain, I understand how you get excited about all this but there is no need to attack a person by calling them idiots. And actually it is part of the terms of the forum that you are not to attack a person. So settle down there big guy and lets try to have an intellegent coversation instead of the name calling!!!

Incorret. You only lose a portion of your rollover after one year. The other claims are etirely false.

like say you get 250 rollover minutes in November and 300 in december...the 250 you got in nov, Provided you didn't use them, would expire in nov and the 300 from dec would expire in december.

The only thing you would lose if you don't pay your bill is your service. Every company cuts you off after a while of not getting paid.

The only way you would lose your rollover by changing your plan is if you went from a plan that had rollover to one that doesn't (95% of our plans do).

So blah.

Now let me ask this...if your service gets suspended due to non payment, after you reactivate the phone is your rollover still there?

yes it IS still there... the ONLY time you would lose your rollover is if your acct is CANCELLED for more than 60 days.... even if you cancel for 30 days... cingular will reinstate your rollover. You only lose the rollover if the wireless number is recycled.

Okay, thanks thats all I wanted to check. NOW, why is it that YOU capitolize SOME words, and not OTHERS? I merely asked a simple question!

It's to EMPHASIZE the TONE in the WORDS. it's alot EASIER to do than italics or bold lettering. I am NOT doing it to "yell". I get ALOT of grief on it. But that's WHY i do it.

Why? The emphasize or get grief? hehehe

The last post just had to be re-posted because it's so awesome.

It's real difficult to understand than in network minutes apply only when a customer is using our network. The second map shows just our network, big deal; your stating this as a competitive advantage? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Why would anyone really NEED to make a call while they are in the middle of no where? The only real reason why someone (someone not living in the middle of nowhere) would NEED to make call in the middle of nowhere is for emergency purposes only--in that case I would be ok to pay $.69/minute for a phone that works as opposed to a phone that is barely going to work.

We wont can...
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All I know is that I'm happy with Verizon's service; customer service, NE2, ability to switch plans in the middle of contract, the way they send special promotions on monthly payments to various phone numbers, and coverage...which is most important. Compared to other carriers here in Hawaii, I'd say Verizon for CDMA and T-mobile for GSM are the best that I've seen so far. But then again, you folks are all on the mainland so I guess it doesn't matter...so long as YOU get the service you want...then go for it!

Cingular also uses T-Mobile's GSM network.

Ah, speaking of which...does that mean that Hawaii's customers will now have the option of Cingular...as in will the At&t name be Cingular? Because all we currently have is Verizon, At&t, T-mobile, Nextel, and Sprint...no Cingular. Anyone can correct me if there are more carriers than listed...that's all I can remember off the top of my head.

I work in the communications industry, however I do not work for a cel phone company. I've had Verizon since they took over GTE Wireless, & my wife has ATTWS. They are the two best cel phone providers in northern California IMO. As a result of my work, I've seen failures & who does & does not get them fixed. This also led us to be on two separate carriers since it practically guarantees one of us is going to be able to place a call.

Our experience is ATTWS is the better carrier, except when a concert lets out & 17,000 people get the same idea at the same time. Then ATTWS gives circuit busys while Verizon customers call right out. Traveling we've found ATTWS gives a digital signal most everywhere while Verizon supplies analog service. Jam...
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I forgot to add, since I do a lot of traveling in outlying areas I've found AMPS capability invaluable. Til analog goes the way of the vacuum tube I'll never have a phone without it. Sure miss my old 5-watt cel phones too.

Yes. After 6 months the AT&T name will be phased out. Maybe Cingular will be present in Hawaii before then, perhaps they will convert some of the AT&T stores there. Don't know for sure.


But if you sign on with AT&T, you will enjoy the benefits of being part of the new merged company. 🙂 You will receive your bills with both the AT&T and Cingular brand names on them.

You will also be free to pick a new Cingular branded phone and rate plan. For more information, visit one of our AT&T authorized dealerships. You may be able to special order the new Cingular phones. 😁

outsource_guy4000 said:

But if you sign on with AT&T, you will enjoy the benefits of being part of the new merged company. 🙂 You will receive your bills with both the AT&T and Cingular brand names on them.

You will also be free to pick a new Cingular branded phone and rate plan. For more information, visit one of our AT&T authorized dealerships. You may be able to special order the new Cingular phones. 😁

Uhh... ATTW/Cingular has Stepford reps now? 😳

Have to agree with you overall. I've known people who were 'in love' with AT&TW(now Cingular) or T-Mobile for quite awhile, even though they clearly weren't working out worth a damn for them. I myself when a wireless newb used to stick up for Sprint's network for awhile, contrary to its so-so performance for me. It was almost a case of 'Stockholm Syndrome', lol.

But after awhile you wise up.

In the end, either a carrier has an unobstructed, non-overloaded tower near enough to you and the places you frequently visit, or it does not. And that matters much more than all the spiffy marketing, cute phones, price plan gimmicks, or blind loyalty in the world. The end.

😎

wnrussell said:

verizongenius said:
The merger of AT&T and Cingular is going to cause unbelievable Network problems. It has already started. Try it....you will see

Thanks, and I agree.

Happily, I'll disagree. My brother in Concord, California said his ATTWS GSM was horrible, but since Cingular's signal came online this month his service is vastly improved. Reluctantly, he says he probably lost some business while on GSM & wishes he'd switched to Verizon like most of his neighbors had already done since Verizon has excellent service to his area. His fancy Motorola-T720 model still can't get a signal inside some buildings while his wife's bottom of the line Nokia works every...
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RUFF1415 said:
Why not consider Cingular?

Actually, I have. Took a hard look at the V3 and the V551 on Sunday.

The problem is I have 4 phones on a Family Share Plan which Verizon will not release me from.

The costs to cancel those contracts, buy 4 new phones or pay the mobile-to-mobile charges to split the carriers are unreasonable.

That was directed to SPCSVZWJeff's "Actually WHY consider Cingular?" in his reply. Rhetorical question. Sorry.