FCC Approves Nextel Spectrum Plan
When?
I am sure verizon is crying right now. They've clearly and wisely been on a spectrum acquisition spree.
Can verizon force an appeal?
viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?
They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...
Rich Brome said:viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?
They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...
VZW will drag this out in the courts forever. Then there's the issue of the congressman who thinks that the FCC acted illegally by giving valuable spectrum to Nextel.
This will not be pretty. The big loser in all of this will be the American public.
towermonkey said:Which is why I'm all for this getting taken care of quickly. Verzion will adopt LNP because it "benefits the public"...but they don't give a damn about resolving the inteference issue while people die.Rich Brome said:viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?
They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...
VZW will drag this out in the courts forever. Then there's the issue of the congressman who thinks that the FCC acted illegally by giving valuable spectrum to Nextel.
This will not be pretty. The big loser in all of this will be the American public.
Rich Brome said:I'm thoroughly behind Nextel on this one. If this'll stop more people from dying needlessly...I'll take that over "any apparent benefit" provided by squeezing Nextel for more cash.viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?
They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...
Rich Brome said:viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?
They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...
are you then saying that it could take a long time for nextel to get that spectrum?
the FCC was challenged when it took back spectrum from bankrupt carrier nextwave. The FCC lost that one but the FCC was, in this instance, violating bankruptcy law.
i wonder if they'll be found to be violating anything this time.
Any guesses on when nextel will be able to start using its new spectrum (whatever that may be)?
jukebox2 said:
Is the 1900 band as good as the 800?
The 1900 band is better at some things worse for others.
For a given amount of output power you get less range for 1900 MHz compared to 800 MHz. That also means you get inferior indoor coverage for 1900 Mhz. i have always felt that verizon and nextel's lower spectrum has been an advantage because it facilitates coverage and better coverage is a big part of the sell for both of those. "can you hear me now?"
What you get at 1900 MHz is greater vendor support and the ability to reuse the spectrum more aggressively. Since the 1900 Mhz waves are absorbed more quickly than those at 800 MHz that also means that you get less leak/interference from adjacen...
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jukebox2 said:It's definitely better for data...but 800 does penetrate structures better (I'll thank MarkF on this one...he forced me to go back and dig up training documents I had from my days of interning with Qualcomm).
Is the 1900 band as good as the 800?
But most of those factors are minor compared to the issues surrounding the spefific spectrum involved.
Nextel's old spectrum is a mix of several small bands that intermingle with public safety. Even if there weren't the interference issues, it's not good spectrum. It's not the same cellular 800 MHz spectrum that Cingular and Verizon use. It wasn't designed for cell phones at all, which is why Nextel's system has always been kind of a "hack".
The new spectrum isn't much - 10 MHz - but it's the exact same band nationwide. That's extremely v...
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viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?
Not directly, it seems. There was prior speculation that Verizon would sue the FCC, but now it looks like they make not take that route, opting to lobby congress instead:
http://news.vzw.com/news/2004/07/pr2004-07-07.html »
...which may be smart, since a lawsuit would likely delay implementation. Of course, that still may happen if congress intervenes, but if Verizon can distance itself a bit, that be a smart PR move. They don't want to be blamed (directly) for something that hurts public safety and possibly costs lives.
The anticipated course of action (appealing this) goes beyond that and one might even call it obstruction of public safety. Sometimes you need to accept that you've lost and move on.
i think there is a real concern at verizon that their spectrum could end up looking like that which nextel currently has (3 bands).
they have 800, 1900 and will, as a result of this ruling and recent acquisitions, soon run out of 1900 spectrum which they can acquire especially in tier 1 and 2 markets. That means verizon might have to do 800, 1900, 2100 or add some other newly auction spectrum instead of 2100. Three spectrum blockes would not kill them but its...
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viper said:...
verizon had as much right as anyone else to voice their view to the FCC prior to the decision.
The anticipated course of action (appealing this) goes beyond that and one might even call it obstruction of public safety. Sometimes you need to accept that you've lost and move on.
i think there is a real concern at verizon that their spectrum could end up looking like that which nextel currently has (3 bands).
they have 800, 1900 and will, as a result of this ruling and recent acquisitions, soon run out of 1900 spectrum which they can acquire especially in tier 1 and 2 markets. That means verizon might have to do 800, 1900, 2100 or add some other newly auction spectrum instead of 2100. Three spectrum blo
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SBacklin said:Really? Gosh, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Oh, by the way? Nextel is looking to convert to CDMA once they get this spectrum. Have you been reading the same info we have?
Nextel doesn't use CDMA, they use Motorola's 800 Mhz iDEN technology.
SBacklin said:
Interesting if Nextel does want to convert because, if they switch to CDMA, it is my understanding that they will loose the awesome benefit of how fast their PTT feature is. If they switch to CDMA for non-data services, they will loose that edge.
Nextel was smart and they licensed from Qualcomm on an entirely exclusive basis a technology called Qchat which is supposed to be the best CDMA based PTT solution. I'm not sure if they will use the 1900 mhz for both voice and data or if they will use it for only data. Their Flash-OFDM trial in North Carolina for high speed broadband is apparantly going well. And as an endorsement for the technology, McCaw recently announced his new venture called ...
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I have not heard this. Can you supply a source or link?
Clearwire was using IP wireless. Mr McCaw and friends also acquired Nextnet wireless. Nextnet's modem is now featured on clearwire's website. They took off the picture of the IP wireless modem.
I assumed that clearwire would use nextnet tech since McCaw and friends own both. Nextnet has a proprietary system but are endorsing WiMAX (which IMHO is over hyped to the extreme). One never knows though. Nextnet could be used as a second source for flarion's flash OFDM just as well.
I very much agree with the point that verizon is going too far. ...
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If it wasn't Verizon it would be someone else. Someone has to take the hit to try to keep thins fair and legitimately competitive.
SBacklin said:Like I said before, Verizon could care less about fairness. They see Nextel gaining the power to become even more of a threat than they already are. Assumi...
See people shouldn't see Verizon as the bad guy and saying Verizon will let people die. It is Nextel's fault that all of this is happening, all Verizon is trying to do is trying to get Nextel to fully pay for all needed operations (spectrum swap out and spectrum buying at an auction) and giving Verizon and Cingular a chance to grab it. I also applaud Verizon for their fight. Cingular also completely disagrees with Nextel's plan but they are too affraid to do anything about it. Verizon has always been the one to go up to fight. Kudos! 😁
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SBacklin said:If a national carrier like Nextel becomes a CDMA-based carrier...you can bet your ass Verizon will consider them a competitor. Hell...they're considered a competitor now.
That is interesting. I live in Seattle, WA where Verizon only operates in the 800Mhz band. However, Verizon will not consider them a competitor unless they start getting up there along side Cingular and the rest of the big boys.
SBacklin said:
TNextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.
BINGO!!!!
bolthead said:SBacklin said:
TNextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.
BINGO!!!!
Its not fair or accurate to say this. Nextel has very good coverage in a lot of places and so does sprint. I lived in the midwest and southern california and i found sprint's coverage to be quite good in both cases and better than that of verizon.
My personal experience with verizon or rather with people that have verizon is that there are some places on the east coast where verizon does indeed have better coverage than the competition but not much be...
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viper said:...bolthead said:SBacklin said:
TNextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.
BINGO!!!!
Its not fair or accurate to say this. Nextel has very good coverage in a lot of places and so does sprint. I lived in the midwest and southern california and i found sprint's coverage to be quite good in both cases and better than that of verizon.
My personal experience with verizon or rather with people that have verizon is that there are some places on the east coast where verizon does indeed have better coverage than
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SBacklin said:Like I said...wait till Nextel puts its PCS licenses to good use. Then you'll see coverage being added. As for Sprint and Tmobile...their coverage is not as bad as you think. I think people automatically attribute the problems with Sprint's customer service to a lack of coverage, and Tmobile is building out coverage at an astonishing rate. Look...
In major metro areas, Nextel does have good coverage. What I meant was regional or national overall coverage. Like I mentioned before many people who rely on heavy data services along with cell phone service usually do a lot of traveling in which Verizon has the upper hand on coverage. Nextel's overall coverage is just as bad as Sprint's or T-Mobile's.
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I forgot to mention that part in the last posting. O_o
SBacklin said:Tmobile's current state of network is NO WHERE NEAR what it was as Voicestream. Give it up.
I also forgot to mention, that I had them for a year when they were T-Mobile also, their network performance had not changed. I still had around the same much of dropped calls and the quality sounded horrible.
I forgot to mention that part in the last posting. O_o
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SBacklin said:...
No I won't. When I had T-Mobile I did notice in a couple areas where signal strength had improved. Although, I still kept on having numerous dropped calls. Their CS was ok. I will admit that. I am not saying nor have I ever said that they never improved their home coverage. Their call quality to me sucked, static, that pulsating noise on the ear speaker and the dropped calls. That is the issues I had with them and the reasons why I will never go back to them. As far as telling me to give it up. Not a chance in hell. There is one thing you should realize if you haven't already is that when I feel that I am on the right side or know that I am the right side, I will NEVER give up. I am very passiona
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SBacklin said:Why, S...that's very swell of you to come back so soon after swearing fidelity to other forums and refusing to debate me ever again.
No, all the major carriers get service here. Verizon, Cingular, AT&T, Sprint and Nextel. I live in the Seattle metro area. Hell even Qwest had their own network here even though that is changing soon I believe. So no there isn't any "cell phone black hole" here.
SBacklin said:Changing the rules mid-game, huh? Capital!
if you take the time to erad what i wrote in one of my responses, the whole debate with Nextel & Verizon I won't do anymore with you. In this one we're talking about coverage, etc.
SBacklin said:...
Hehe, that's if they get it, if they do, it most likely wont' be for a very long time. I will have to agree that T-Mobile is making good time in adding coverage. It's just that if you look at the map, their "new" coverage is pretty much all roaming coverage at extra charge to their customers. On a side note about T-Mobile's coverage, they should do a dam major network overhaul since their service is horrible. I have never seen a company have so a big problem with dropped calls. I had them for a year when they were VoiceStream. I nothing but constant dropped calls. Regarding Sprint, their coverage does suck, I had actually broke my contract with them because their coverage was was so bad AND because th
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SBacklin said:...
I am looking at T-Mobile's map right now. Their roaming coverage will cause customers to incur roaming charges. On their map in the U.S., they have three colors. Yellow or beige (no coverage), bright pink (home coverage), dull pink (roaming coverage). The only kind of non-charge to customers roaming coverage you're talking about would be including the "home coverage" area. Going on that, their coverage overall is still pretty lousy. Again, Sprint's overall home coverage is lousy. All you got to do is look at their map. In individual markets, they may be considered good, just try to remember when I talk about coverage, I am talking about overall nationwide home coverage. When I talk about "home" cov
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SBacklin said:I hate to tell you this, but Verizon's current PTT business accounts are just a drop in the bucket in comparison to Nextel's. They're just scratching the surface.
Their only are partially considered a competitor because of the PTT. Verizon has enough of business users on Verizon PTT. Nextel still has the crown in that area, granted, but Nextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.
SBacklin said:I don't think you understand. Nextel's gaining subscribers at a very fast pace. Look it up on their corporate history page. They're doing this without the same native coverage as Verizon. Verizon will never have a PTT protocol as good as Nextel (iDEN's untouchable, and Qchat belongs to Nextel and Moto). And when and if Nextel gets its CDMA network off ...
I know that Nextel has a hell of a lot more of PTT customers. What I meant was that Verizon is happy currently with what they have. Of course they always would like more and they are working on the network among other things for that purpose. What would really present a challenge to Verizon if Nextel would have as much coverage as Verizon does.
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SBacklin said:...
I am not saying that Nextel is never going to or are gaining subscribers. The point is. Nextel has to do MAJOR changes in order to TRY and compete with Verizon. Right now their CS sucks. Their cell phone service sucks. The only good thing about their service is their PTT. As for "Verizon being happy" I said that in the context of them being happy with the amount of PTT subscribers they got since they started the service. They know it's not all that it could be. They're working on it and I'm not saying that anything will come of it. Right now Nextel will never come close to having as many customers as Verizon does since right now Nextel's only ace is PTT. Not everyone wants it or uses it. As far a
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SBacklin said:Lucky area of service my white irish ass. When I made use of Nextel's service I travelled from South Florida to Tampa, Ocala, Orlando, Gainesville and everywhere in between via I-95, the Florida Turnpike, and I-75. I wa...
Well you might be one of the people in a "lucky area" of service.
Nextel's only ace in the whole is their PTT service.
Another thing, blaming Verizon for "impeding" PS is BS. It is the FCC's fault for allowing Nextel into that spectrum in the first place and it is Nextel's fault for being morons and allowing their service to cause the interference and trying to deny it early on. The only reason why now they admit it is because everyone is calling them out on it.
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SBacklin said:...
It ALSO most certainly Nextel's fault. They knew for a long time that this was happening and at first tried to deny it. Like I said before it is also the FCC's fault for being idiots anyway. I was planning on continuing this debate with you. However, since you brought the debate to a whole different level trying to say that I would even consider another 9-11 attack happen and let the PS teams have all that interference happen. The debate is over. That comment was out of line. There are plenty of other forums I am debating in about this issue. None of them are being that stupid. I considered this debate with you somewhat of a professional level debate. However, you can't keep it that way. So I am
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nextel has tried out a lot of different technologies. some are ofdm. some are WCDMA.
The issue is this. Does nextel have an advantage deploying a next gen tech at 1.9 GHz vs. 2.1 GHz or 800 MHz. They would have deployed new tech regardless of the band. I don't think there is a clear answer here. Its a well yes and no kind of thing. there are pros and cons each way.
Does the allocation of 1.9 GHz give nextel an unfair advantage in the market? 1.9 GHz is not doing that much for T-mobile to my knowledge and Sprint (another 1.9 GHz operator) is swimming in debt, perhaps drowning, because they built u...
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Nextel is in trials with flarion who offers an ofdm technology called flash ofdm. Nextel completed a tech trial last year and is doing a "market trial" now in RTP, north carolina.
http://www.nextelbroadband.com/ »
It is pretty much an open secret that nextel has observed, assessed and possibly trialed IP wireless who uses a different version of UMTS. Everyone in the financial community knows this, which is my source. I believe that Donahue has publicly mentioned that they have looked at it.
sprint does have problems for a lot of reasons. Their debt position is definitely one of them.
I have to tel...
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viper said:...
"And as an endorsement for the technology (flarion), McCaw recently announced his new venture called Clearwire using this technology."
I have not heard this. Can you supply a source or link?
Clearwire was using IP wireless. Mr McCaw and friends also acquired Nextnet wireless. Nextnet's modem is now featured on clearwire's website. They took off the picture of the IP wireless modem.
I assumed that clearwire would use nextnet tech since McCaw and friends own both. Nextnet has a proprietary system but are endorsing WiMAX (which IMHO is over hyped to the extreme). One never knows though. Nextnet could be used as a second source for flarion's flash OFDM just as well.
I very much agree with the point
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i have thought about this and i think nextel could go lots of different paths on 1.9 Ghz. Everyone is free to disagree. If they go CDMA2000 then my assumption would be short-term merger with sprint and use of sprint's tower assets.
If they intend to do it alone and that could well be the case then i am not so sure about CDMA2000.
to deploy cdma2000, Nextel would be spending billions for new radios and lots of new towers to essentially play catch up with sprint, verizon and cingular who seeks to deploy UMTS. They also have to spend billions as part of this deal with the FCC. That is a lot of money to spend when your competitors are plotting their own next move forward.
If they intend to do it alone i would count on a d...
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SBacklin said:...
Verizon has every right to be pissed off. The FCC was in the wrong. They should've auctioned off that spectrum, that is all Verizon wanted; to have the chance to buy it themselves. Nextel is trying to get something very valuable for free or at the very least, very cheap. It is Nextel's own fault that their services interfere with ER Systems. They knew about this and tried to hide it but finally admitted it. So, Nextel should have to pay the full amount to relocate everyone affected in this ordeal and also pay the other full amount AT AN AUCTION for that spectrum. My idea would've saved problems for the ER systems. The only difference in mine and what the FCC handed down is that Nextel wouldn't have
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1. Verizon didn't used to complain about anything when the FCC was giving away wireless licenses for free in the mid 80s.
2. Nextel is giving up 8.5 Mhz and is getting 10 Mhz PLUS paying the retuning costs for public safety and private operators.
3. Nextel acquired all these non-contiguous licenses LEGALLY and I believe the FCC had poor vision by allowing private users to be so close to public safety on the radio spectrum.
4. Verizon's lead attorey may have stepped over the line when he wrote a letter to the FCC saying they would pursue criminal charges against FCC officials. This may come back to hurt them. (Especially when the FCC is usually in their corner)
5. This plan...
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The FCC could also just take the spectrum from Nextel with the right of eminent domain, but would have to pay a fair market price. If this spectrum they are giving up is worth $1.6-2B, then the FCC would have to pay this to reclaim it plus the cost of retuning public safety radios (est. by nextel at $850mm). So an outlay of $2.5-2.8B by the FCC (or Treasury) doesn't seem feasible. Then if they did auction this spectrum off it would probably garner $5-6B. They would get ...
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crazylegged said:...
There are some issues which must be pointed out in all of this:
1. Verizon didn't used to complain about anything when the FCC was giving away wireless licenses for free in the mid 80s.
2. Nextel is giving up 8.5 Mhz and is getting 10 Mhz PLUS paying the retuning costs for public safety and private operators.
3. Nextel acquired all these non-contiguous licenses LEGALLY and I believe the FCC had poor vision by allowing private users to be so close to public safety on the radio spectrum.
4. Verizon's lead attorey may have stepped over the line when he wrote a letter to the FCC saying they would pursue criminal charges against FCC officials. This may come back to hurt them. (Especially when the FCC is
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This forum is closed.