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FCC Approves Nextel Spectrum Plan

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When?

viper

Jul 8, 2004, 12:09 PM
any word on when nextel will get that 1.9 GHz spectrum?

I am sure verizon is crying right now. They've clearly and wisely been on a spectrum acquisition spree.

Can verizon force an appeal?
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Rich Brome

Jul 8, 2004, 12:13 PM
viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?

They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...
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towermonkey

Jul 8, 2004, 12:46 PM
Rich Brome said:
viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?

They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...

VZW will drag this out in the courts forever. Then there's the issue of the congressman who thinks that the FCC acted illegally by giving valuable spectrum to Nextel.

This will not be pretty. The big loser in all of this will be the American public.
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muchdrama

Jul 8, 2004, 12:49 PM
towermonkey said:
Rich Brome said:
viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?

They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...

VZW will drag this out in the courts forever. Then there's the issue of the congressman who thinks that the FCC acted illegally by giving valuable spectrum to Nextel.

This will not be pretty. The big loser in all of this will be the American public.
Which is why I'm all for this getting taken care of quickly. Verzion will adopt LNP because it "benefits the public"...but they don't give a damn about resolving the inteference issue while people die.
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muchdrama

Jul 8, 2004, 12:47 PM
Rich Brome said:
viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?

They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...
I'm thoroughly behind Nextel on this one. If this'll stop more people from dying needlessly...I'll take that over "any apparent benefit" provided by squeezing Nextel for more cash.
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viper

Jul 8, 2004, 2:08 PM
Rich Brome said:
viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?

They're sure as hell going to try. We'll see what the courts say...



are you then saying that it could take a long time for nextel to get that spectrum?

the FCC was challenged when it took back spectrum from bankrupt carrier nextwave. The FCC lost that one but the FCC was, in this instance, violating bankruptcy law.

i wonder if they'll be found to be violating anything this time.

Any guesses on when nextel will be able to start using its new spectrum (whatever that may be)?
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jukebox2

Jul 8, 2004, 2:57 PM
Is the 1900 band as good as the 800?
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viper

Jul 8, 2004, 3:18 PM
jukebox2 said:
Is the 1900 band as good as the 800?



The 1900 band is better at some things worse for others.

For a given amount of output power you get less range for 1900 MHz compared to 800 MHz. That also means you get inferior indoor coverage for 1900 Mhz. i have always felt that verizon and nextel's lower spectrum has been an advantage because it facilitates coverage and better coverage is a big part of the sell for both of those. "can you hear me now?"

What you get at 1900 MHz is greater vendor support and the ability to reuse the spectrum more aggressively. Since the 1900 Mhz waves are absorbed more quickly than those at 800 MHz that also means that you get less leak/interference from adjacen...
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muchdrama

Jul 8, 2004, 3:18 PM
jukebox2 said:
Is the 1900 band as good as the 800?
It's definitely better for data...but 800 does penetrate structures better (I'll thank MarkF on this one...he forced me to go back and dig up training documents I had from my days of interning with Qualcomm).
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Rich Brome

Jul 8, 2004, 3:37 PM
Yes and no. There are advantages to each. 1900 doesn't "reach" as far, so you need to build more towers in outlying areas. But on the other hand, 1900 is better for data and better for dense areas.

But most of those factors are minor compared to the issues surrounding the spefific spectrum involved.

Nextel's old spectrum is a mix of several small bands that intermingle with public safety. Even if there weren't the interference issues, it's not good spectrum. It's not the same cellular 800 MHz spectrum that Cingular and Verizon use. It wasn't designed for cell phones at all, which is why Nextel's system has always been kind of a "hack".

The new spectrum isn't much - 10 MHz - but it's the exact same band nationwide. That's extremely v...
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Rich Brome

Jul 8, 2004, 5:03 PM
viper said:
Can verizon force an appeal?


Not directly, it seems. There was prior speculation that Verizon would sue the FCC, but now it looks like they make not take that route, opting to lobby congress instead:

http://news.vzw.com/news/2004/07/pr2004-07-07.html »

...which may be smart, since a lawsuit would likely delay implementation. Of course, that still may happen if congress intervenes, but if Verizon can distance itself a bit, that be a smart PR move. They don't want to be blamed (directly) for something that hurts public safety and possibly costs lives.
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viper

Jul 9, 2004, 7:56 AM
verizon had as much right as anyone else to voice their view to the FCC prior to the decision.

The anticipated course of action (appealing this) goes beyond that and one might even call it obstruction of public safety. Sometimes you need to accept that you've lost and move on.

i think there is a real concern at verizon that their spectrum could end up looking like that which nextel currently has (3 bands).

they have 800, 1900 and will, as a result of this ruling and recent acquisitions, soon run out of 1900 spectrum which they can acquire especially in tier 1 and 2 markets. That means verizon might have to do 800, 1900, 2100 or add some other newly auction spectrum instead of 2100. Three spectrum blockes would not kill them but its...
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muchdrama

Jul 9, 2004, 9:44 AM
viper said:
verizon had as much right as anyone else to voice their view to the FCC prior to the decision.

The anticipated course of action (appealing this) goes beyond that and one might even call it obstruction of public safety. Sometimes you need to accept that you've lost and move on.

i think there is a real concern at verizon that their spectrum could end up looking like that which nextel currently has (3 bands).

they have 800, 1900 and will, as a result of this ruling and recent acquisitions, soon run out of 1900 spectrum which they can acquire especially in tier 1 and 2 markets. That means verizon might have to do 800, 1900, 2100 or add some other newly auction spectrum instead of 2100. Three spectrum blo
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 9:45 AM
Nextel doesn't use CDMA, they use Motorola's 800 Mhz iDEN technology.
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muchdrama

Jul 9, 2004, 9:49 AM
SBacklin said:
Nextel doesn't use CDMA, they use Motorola's 800 Mhz iDEN technology.
Really? Gosh, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Oh, by the way? Nextel is looking to convert to CDMA once they get this spectrum. Have you been reading the same info we have?
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 9:53 AM
I read that they wanted to convert for their data services, I head that they were happy with the technology they have now because it works so well for the PTT.
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 9:56 AM
Interesting if Nextel does want to convert because, if they switch to CDMA, it is my understanding that they will loose the awesome benefit of how fast their PTT feature is. If they switch to CDMA for non-data services, they will loose that edge.
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crazylegged

Jul 9, 2004, 11:54 AM
SBacklin said:
Interesting if Nextel does want to convert because, if they switch to CDMA, it is my understanding that they will loose the awesome benefit of how fast their PTT feature is. If they switch to CDMA for non-data services, they will loose that edge.

Nextel was smart and they licensed from Qualcomm on an entirely exclusive basis a technology called Qchat which is supposed to be the best CDMA based PTT solution. I'm not sure if they will use the 1900 mhz for both voice and data or if they will use it for only data. Their Flash-OFDM trial in North Carolina for high speed broadband is apparantly going well. And as an endorsement for the technology, McCaw recently announced his new venture called ...
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viper

Jul 9, 2004, 1:28 PM
"And as an endorsement for the technology (flarion), McCaw recently announced his new venture called Clearwire using this technology."

I have not heard this. Can you supply a source or link?

Clearwire was using IP wireless. Mr McCaw and friends also acquired Nextnet wireless. Nextnet's modem is now featured on clearwire's website. They took off the picture of the IP wireless modem.

I assumed that clearwire would use nextnet tech since McCaw and friends own both. Nextnet has a proprietary system but are endorsing WiMAX (which IMHO is over hyped to the extreme). One never knows though. Nextnet could be used as a second source for flarion's flash OFDM just as well.

I very much agree with the point that verizon is going too far. ...
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eriqzierse

Jul 9, 2004, 1:52 PM
😢 I think Verizon Wireless is stuck in the middle of a lose-lose situation. No matter what they do they are the bad guy. If they sit around and do nothing, they give Nextel an unfair advantage in the marketplace. If they speak out against it they are putting lives at risk?. I personally applaud Verizon for speaking out while all of the other complanies sit on their laurels and let Verizon be the media's punching bag.

If it wasn't Verizon it would be someone else. Someone has to take the hit to try to keep thins fair and legitimately competitive.
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 2:51 PM
See people shouldn't see Verizon as the bad guy and saying Verizon will let people die. It is Nextel's fault that all of this is happening, all Verizon is trying to do is trying to get Nextel to fully pay for all needed operations (spectrum swap out and spectrum buying at an auction) and giving Verizon and Cingular a chance to grab it. I also applaud Verizon for their fight. Cingular also completely disagrees with Nextel's plan but they are too affraid to do anything about it. Verizon has always been the one to go up to fight. Kudos! 😁
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muchdrama

Jul 9, 2004, 3:49 PM
SBacklin said:
See people shouldn't see Verizon as the bad guy and saying Verizon will let people die. It is Nextel's fault that all of this is happening, all Verizon is trying to do is trying to get Nextel to fully pay for all needed operations (spectrum swap out and spectrum buying at an auction) and giving Verizon and Cingular a chance to grab it. I also applaud Verizon for their fight. Cingular also completely disagrees with Nextel's plan but they are too affraid to do anything about it. Verizon has always been the one to go up to fight. Kudos! 😁
Like I said before, Verizon could care less about fairness. They see Nextel gaining the power to become even more of a threat than they already are. Assumi...
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 3:55 PM
True, that is one way to look at it and I'm not saying your wrong. It's kind of like taking two different roads (views) to the same end point (the facts). What I say isn't necessarily wrong and neither is what you say. It's just we are both looking at it differently. Another thing I was thinking about too is that Verizon PTT can't even be compared to Nextel's PTT, Verizon's PTT sucks. LOL. I guess this is how all business is run, LOL.
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bolthead

Jul 9, 2004, 10:20 PM
I have doubts that switching to the 1900 Mhz will help Nextel. Sprint runs on this frequency and there structure penetration leaves a lot to be desired. If Nextel truely is considering CDMA when they switch frequencies then they and Sprint may make strange bedfellows because Sprint wants a better business customer base and sure needs help in the customer service end and they already have a model to follow in Canada's Telus which already has both technologies implemented. Verizon may be nervous for more than one reason. I have heard grumblings that smaller CDMA fish like Alltel and US Cellular are planning a merger to Become a bigger player in the CDMA market. they both have a strong 800 Mhz footprint which helps them with customers that ...
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SBacklin

Jul 10, 2004, 1:08 AM
That is interesting. I live in Seattle, WA where Verizon only operates in the 800Mhz band. However, Verizon will not consider them a competitor unless they start getting up there along side Cingular and the rest of the big boys.
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bolthead

Jul 10, 2004, 7:43 AM
I heard that Verizon runs 800 Mhz in several areas out west. In Florida esp on the west coast they acquired the old primco network which is 1900 Mhz. I am not saying other smaller carriers will supplant Verizon but if say the 7th and 8th largest combined or even if Verizon bought of these to get back ahead of Cingular it may create the consolidation domino effect that every one is looking to happen. Just a thoughthttps://www.phonescoop.com/news/discus s.php?fm=m&ff=909&fi=59914#
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muchdrama

Jul 10, 2004, 1:16 PM
SBacklin said:
That is interesting. I live in Seattle, WA where Verizon only operates in the 800Mhz band. However, Verizon will not consider them a competitor unless they start getting up there along side Cingular and the rest of the big boys.
If a national carrier like Nextel becomes a CDMA-based carrier...you can bet your ass Verizon will consider them a competitor. Hell...they're considered a competitor now.
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SBacklin

Jul 10, 2004, 2:44 PM
Their only are partially considered a competitor because of the PTT. Verizon has enough of business users on Verizon PTT. Nextel still has the crown in that area, granted, but Nextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.
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bolthead

Jul 10, 2004, 4:01 PM
SBacklin said:
TNextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.



BINGO!!!!
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viper

Jul 10, 2004, 7:10 PM
bolthead said:
SBacklin said:
TNextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.



BINGO!!!!



Its not fair or accurate to say this. Nextel has very good coverage in a lot of places and so does sprint. I lived in the midwest and southern california and i found sprint's coverage to be quite good in both cases and better than that of verizon.

My personal experience with verizon or rather with people that have verizon is that there are some places on the east coast where verizon does indeed have better coverage than the competition but not much be...
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SBacklin

Jul 10, 2004, 7:13 PM
You're right if you're talking about place by place within a city for example. Each carrier has it's dead spots. I was referring to coverage as a whole. It is generally known that most people who rely heavily on high speed data services along with cell phone service, travel a great deal so they would need all the coverage they can get. That would basically fit under the regional coverage idea. Going on that, Nextel's, Sprint's and T-Mobile's coverage is poor. They're generally only good in major city and along highways.
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muchdrama

Jul 10, 2004, 10:58 PM
viper said:
bolthead said:
SBacklin said:
TNextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.



BINGO!!!!



Its not fair or accurate to say this. Nextel has very good coverage in a lot of places and so does sprint. I lived in the midwest and southern california and i found sprint's coverage to be quite good in both cases and better than that of verizon.

My personal experience with verizon or rather with people that have verizon is that there are some places on the east coast where verizon does indeed have better coverage than
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 1:48 AM
In major metro areas, Nextel does have good coverage. What I meant was regional or national overall coverage. Like I mentioned before many people who rely on heavy data services along with cell phone service usually do a lot of traveling in which Verizon has the upper hand on coverage. Nextel's overall coverage is just as bad as Sprint's or T-Mobile's.
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 10:50 AM
SBacklin said:
In major metro areas, Nextel does have good coverage. What I meant was regional or national overall coverage. Like I mentioned before many people who rely on heavy data services along with cell phone service usually do a lot of traveling in which Verizon has the upper hand on coverage. Nextel's overall coverage is just as bad as Sprint's or T-Mobile's.
Like I said...wait till Nextel puts its PCS licenses to good use. Then you'll see coverage being added. As for Sprint and Tmobile...their coverage is not as bad as you think. I think people automatically attribute the problems with Sprint's customer service to a lack of coverage, and Tmobile is building out coverage at an astonishing rate. Look...
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 11:10 AM
Hehe, that's if they get it, if they do, it most likely wont' be for a very long time. I will have to agree that T-Mobile is making good time in adding coverage. It's just that if you look at the map, their "new" coverage is pretty much all roaming coverage at extra charge to their customers. On a side note about T-Mobile's coverage, they should do a dam major network overhaul since their service is horrible. I have never seen a company have so a big problem with dropped calls. I had them for a year when they were VoiceStream. I nothing but constant dropped calls. Regarding Sprint, their coverage does suck, I had actually broke my contract with them because their coverage was was so bad AND because their CS. Believe I also realize tha...
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 11:13 AM
I also forgot to mention, that I had them for a year when they were T-Mobile also, their network performance had not changed. I still had around the same much of dropped calls and the quality sounded horrible.

I forgot to mention that part in the last posting. O_o
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 12:55 PM
SBacklin said:
I also forgot to mention, that I had them for a year when they were T-Mobile also, their network performance had not changed. I still had around the same much of dropped calls and the quality sounded horrible.

I forgot to mention that part in the last posting. O_o
Tmobile's current state of network is NO WHERE NEAR what it was as Voicestream. Give it up.
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 1:27 PM
No I won't. When I had T-Mobile I did notice in a couple areas where signal strength had improved. Although, I still kept on having numerous dropped calls. Their CS was ok. I will admit that. I am not saying nor have I ever said that they never improved their home coverage. Their call quality to me sucked, static, that pulsating noise on the ear speaker and the dropped calls. That is the issues I had with them and the reasons why I will never go back to them. As far as telling me to give it up. Not a chance in hell. There is one thing you should realize if you haven't already is that when I feel that I am on the right side or know that I am the right side, I will NEVER give up. I am very passionate in my views and will NEVER back ...
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 6:57 PM
SBacklin said:
No I won't. When I had T-Mobile I did notice in a couple areas where signal strength had improved. Although, I still kept on having numerous dropped calls. Their CS was ok. I will admit that. I am not saying nor have I ever said that they never improved their home coverage. Their call quality to me sucked, static, that pulsating noise on the ear speaker and the dropped calls. That is the issues I had with them and the reasons why I will never go back to them. As far as telling me to give it up. Not a chance in hell. There is one thing you should realize if you haven't already is that when I feel that I am on the right side or know that I am the right side, I will NEVER give up. I am very passiona
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 7:01 PM
No, all the major carriers get service here. Verizon, Cingular, AT&T, Sprint and Nextel. I live in the Seattle metro area. Hell even Qwest had their own network here even though that is changing soon I believe. So no there isn't any "cell phone black hole" here.
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 7:09 PM
SBacklin said:
No, all the major carriers get service here. Verizon, Cingular, AT&T, Sprint and Nextel. I live in the Seattle metro area. Hell even Qwest had their own network here even though that is changing soon I believe. So no there isn't any "cell phone black hole" here.
Why, S...that's very swell of you to come back so soon after swearing fidelity to other forums and refusing to debate me ever again.
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 7:12 PM
if you take the time to erad what i wrote in one of my responses, the whole debate with Nextel & Verizon I won't do anymore with you. In this one we're talking about coverage, etc.
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 7:14 PM
SBacklin said:
if you take the time to erad what i wrote in one of my responses, the whole debate with Nextel & Verizon I won't do anymore with you. In this one we're talking about coverage, etc.
Changing the rules mid-game, huh? Capital!
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 7:15 PM
no, not changing rules, the topic was changed, that was obvious, it became two seperate topics
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 12:53 PM
SBacklin said:
Hehe, that's if they get it, if they do, it most likely wont' be for a very long time. I will have to agree that T-Mobile is making good time in adding coverage. It's just that if you look at the map, their "new" coverage is pretty much all roaming coverage at extra charge to their customers. On a side note about T-Mobile's coverage, they should do a dam major network overhaul since their service is horrible. I have never seen a company have so a big problem with dropped calls. I had them for a year when they were VoiceStream. I nothing but constant dropped calls. Regarding Sprint, their coverage does suck, I had actually broke my contract with them because their coverage was was so bad AND because th
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 1:24 PM
I am looking at T-Mobile's map right now. Their roaming coverage will cause customers to incur roaming charges. On their map in the U.S., they have three colors. Yellow or beige (no coverage), bright pink (home coverage), dull pink (roaming coverage). The only kind of non-charge to customers roaming coverage you're talking about would be including the "home coverage" area. Going on that, their coverage overall is still pretty lousy. Again, Sprint's overall home coverage is lousy. All you got to do is look at their map. In individual markets, they may be considered good, just try to remember when I talk about coverage, I am talking about overall nationwide home coverage. When I talk about "home" coverage, I am talking about coverage ...
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 6:53 PM
SBacklin said:
I am looking at T-Mobile's map right now. Their roaming coverage will cause customers to incur roaming charges. On their map in the U.S., they have three colors. Yellow or beige (no coverage), bright pink (home coverage), dull pink (roaming coverage). The only kind of non-charge to customers roaming coverage you're talking about would be including the "home coverage" area. Going on that, their coverage overall is still pretty lousy. Again, Sprint's overall home coverage is lousy. All you got to do is look at their map. In individual markets, they may be considered good, just try to remember when I talk about coverage, I am talking about overall nationwide home coverage. When I talk about "home" cov
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 6:58 PM
Now this particular debate is different. I will admit, it amazes me that they even still use analog. I personally never use it. I have always turned analog off on my phones or i have all digital phones. Anyway, it's a well known fact that their high services won't work in analog. The reason why they still have analog is because there are some customers who are happy with analog service and they aren't into the latest cell hype anyway. Verizon knows they can't just cut them off. Verizon has been ordered by the FCC i believe to completely phase out analog in a few years, by 2007 i believe, i could be mistaken on the year. All companies are out to make money. That is a business reality. So my stance on Verizon wouldn't change anyway.
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muchdrama

Jul 10, 2004, 10:55 PM
SBacklin said:
Their only are partially considered a competitor because of the PTT. Verizon has enough of business users on Verizon PTT. Nextel still has the crown in that area, granted, but Nextel's cell phone service leave a lot to be desired. The problem is, Nextel needs to catch up A LOT coverage wise. Nextel's coverage is just as bad as T-Mobile and Sprint.
I hate to tell you this, but Verizon's current PTT business accounts are just a drop in the bucket in comparison to Nextel's. They're just scratching the surface.
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 1:45 AM
I know that Nextel has a hell of a lot more of PTT customers. What I meant was that Verizon is happy currently with what they have. Of course they always would like more and they are working on the network among other things for that purpose. What would really present a challenge to Verizon if Nextel would have as much coverage as Verizon does.
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 10:46 AM
SBacklin said:
I know that Nextel has a hell of a lot more of PTT customers. What I meant was that Verizon is happy currently with what they have. Of course they always would like more and they are working on the network among other things for that purpose. What would really present a challenge to Verizon if Nextel would have as much coverage as Verizon does.
I don't think you understand. Nextel's gaining subscribers at a very fast pace. Look it up on their corporate history page. They're doing this without the same native coverage as Verizon. Verizon will never have a PTT protocol as good as Nextel (iDEN's untouchable, and Qchat belongs to Nextel and Moto). And when and if Nextel gets its CDMA network off ...
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 10:59 AM
I am not saying that Nextel is never going to or are gaining subscribers. The point is. Nextel has to do MAJOR changes in order to TRY and compete with Verizon. Right now their CS sucks. Their cell phone service sucks. The only good thing about their service is their PTT. As for "Verizon being happy" I said that in the context of them being happy with the amount of PTT subscribers they got since they started the service. They know it's not all that it could be. They're working on it and I'm not saying that anything will come of it. Right now Nextel will never come close to having as many customers as Verizon does since right now Nextel's only ace is PTT. Not everyone wants it or uses it. As far as them getting their CDMA licenses,...
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 12:48 PM
SBacklin said:
I am not saying that Nextel is never going to or are gaining subscribers. The point is. Nextel has to do MAJOR changes in order to TRY and compete with Verizon. Right now their CS sucks. Their cell phone service sucks. The only good thing about their service is their PTT. As for "Verizon being happy" I said that in the context of them being happy with the amount of PTT subscribers they got since they started the service. They know it's not all that it could be. They're working on it and I'm not saying that anything will come of it. Right now Nextel will never come close to having as many customers as Verizon does since right now Nextel's only ace is PTT. Not everyone wants it or uses it. As far a
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 1:11 PM
Well you might be one of the people in a "lucky area" of service. Most of the time when I call a Nextel subscriber and I know they're in the home coverage area, I always get that "please wait while we locate the Nextel subscriber you're trying to reach". I have used Nextel for 2 years at a previous job. I had nothing but problems with their cell phone service. The company I worked for had nothing but problem with the CS. I called a few times for other reasons and got no straight answers or help at all. I have close ties with VZW via relatives that work in various departments there. Like I mentioned before Verizon is "happy" with their current numbers considering they just started the service. They know that their PTT has issues. I e...
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 6:41 PM
SBacklin said:
Well you might be one of the people in a "lucky area" of service.

Nextel's only ace in the whole is their PTT service.


Another thing, blaming Verizon for "impeding" PS is BS. It is the FCC's fault for allowing Nextel into that spectrum in the first place and it is Nextel's fault for being morons and allowing their service to cause the interference and trying to deny it early on. The only reason why now they admit it is because everyone is calling them out on it.
Lucky area of service my white irish ass. When I made use of Nextel's service I travelled from South Florida to Tampa, Ocala, Orlando, Gainesville and everywhere in between via I-95, the Florida Turnpike, and I-75. I wa...
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SBacklin

Jul 11, 2004, 6:52 PM
It ALSO most certainly Nextel's fault. They knew for a long time that this was happening and at first tried to deny it. Like I said before it is also the FCC's fault for being idiots anyway. I was planning on continuing this debate with you. However, since you brought the debate to a whole different level trying to say that I would even consider another 9-11 attack happen and let the PS teams have all that interference happen. The debate is over. That comment was out of line. There are plenty of other forums I am debating in about this issue. None of them are being that stupid. I considered this debate with you somewhat of a professional level debate. However, you can't keep it that way. So I am taking my debate else where, where ...
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muchdrama

Jul 11, 2004, 7:01 PM
SBacklin said:
It ALSO most certainly Nextel's fault. They knew for a long time that this was happening and at first tried to deny it. Like I said before it is also the FCC's fault for being idiots anyway. I was planning on continuing this debate with you. However, since you brought the debate to a whole different level trying to say that I would even consider another 9-11 attack happen and let the PS teams have all that interference happen. The debate is over. That comment was out of line. There are plenty of other forums I am debating in about this issue. None of them are being that stupid. I considered this debate with you somewhat of a professional level debate. However, you can't keep it that way. So I am
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cellboy

Jul 12, 2004, 3:59 PM
While i do agree that it is the fcc's overall fault for letting this happen to begin with, i don't think it should be put on either verizon or nextel. for one nextel was just using the sped they paid for and was not their job to make sure it was safe to use thats what we have the fcc for. on the other hand i dont think verizon is hurting public saftey because of them debating that nextel backdoored their way into those pcs licenses. So the argument is and should stay weather or not verizon is going to be in trouble now that nextel is going to have a cdma network. I personally dont think so because there are a few other cdma carriers out there and verizon has always found a way to be on top. even though i dont think they are always the best. ...
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viper

Jul 12, 2004, 4:51 PM
" So the argument is and should stay weather or not verizon is going to be in trouble now that nextel is going to have a cdma network."


nextel has tried out a lot of different technologies. some are ofdm. some are WCDMA.

The issue is this. Does nextel have an advantage deploying a next gen tech at 1.9 GHz vs. 2.1 GHz or 800 MHz. They would have deployed new tech regardless of the band. I don't think there is a clear answer here. Its a well yes and no kind of thing. there are pros and cons each way.

Does the allocation of 1.9 GHz give nextel an unfair advantage in the market? 1.9 GHz is not doing that much for T-mobile to my knowledge and Sprint (another 1.9 GHz operator) is swimming in debt, perhaps drowning, because they built u...
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cellboy

Jul 12, 2004, 5:10 PM
to my knowledge i have never heard of nextel using wcdma or ofdm can you please point me in the direction where you got this info? otherwise you bring some good points up. I think that the 800 mgh band is a must in the states even at@t and cingular found this out. thats why on all their new phones they have the 850 or (800) band on them. as for the 2.1 gig band none is currently using it so i dont think nextel is going to spend much money building it up. and tmobile uses 1800/1900 almost exclusivly. i think sprint is in bad shape for a number of reasons not the least because they have had some bad ideas in the way of giving a phone to any 18 year old who wants one. when i worked for them in louisiana they were still running credit checks and...
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viper

Jul 13, 2004, 8:14 AM
"to my knowledge i have never heard of nextel using wcdma or ofdm can you please point me in the direction where you got this info?"

Nextel is in trials with flarion who offers an ofdm technology called flash ofdm. Nextel completed a tech trial last year and is doing a "market trial" now in RTP, north carolina.

http://www.nextelbroadband.com/ »

It is pretty much an open secret that nextel has observed, assessed and possibly trialed IP wireless who uses a different version of UMTS. Everyone in the financial community knows this, which is my source. I believe that Donahue has publicly mentioned that they have looked at it.

sprint does have problems for a lot of reasons. Their debt position is definitely one of them.

I have to tel...
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cellboy

Jul 13, 2004, 8:23 AM
yes i knew about the "trials" with flarion but i thought you said they had already tried it. meaning active with it. i agree that they would have to work together to be effective but im wondering if they will. wouldnt nextel in that case just be better of pulling a cingular and "merging"..lol im sorry buying sprint out. so not only would they get all of sprints existing network but then sprint could pull an AT&T and ink a deal to use the network like qwest and AT&T already have with sprint. then nextel is third largest in the industry and verizon really has something to worry about. and why even maintain a iden network after you have the cdma built? i mean i know cingular is saying by 2005 the tdma is going bye bye because they are rolling ...
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crazylegged

Jul 9, 2004, 1:55 PM
viper said:
"And as an endorsement for the technology (flarion), McCaw recently announced his new venture called Clearwire using this technology."

I have not heard this. Can you supply a source or link?

Clearwire was using IP wireless. Mr McCaw and friends also acquired Nextnet wireless. Nextnet's modem is now featured on clearwire's website. They took off the picture of the IP wireless modem.

I assumed that clearwire would use nextnet tech since McCaw and friends own both. Nextnet has a proprietary system but are endorsing WiMAX (which IMHO is over hyped to the extreme). One never knows though. Nextnet could be used as a second source for flarion's flash OFDM just as well.

I very much agree with the point
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viper

Jul 9, 2004, 10:18 AM
muchdrama,

i have thought about this and i think nextel could go lots of different paths on 1.9 Ghz. Everyone is free to disagree. If they go CDMA2000 then my assumption would be short-term merger with sprint and use of sprint's tower assets.

If they intend to do it alone and that could well be the case then i am not so sure about CDMA2000.

to deploy cdma2000, Nextel would be spending billions for new radios and lots of new towers to essentially play catch up with sprint, verizon and cingular who seeks to deploy UMTS. They also have to spend billions as part of this deal with the FCC. That is a lot of money to spend when your competitors are plotting their own next move forward.

If they intend to do it alone i would count on a d...
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 9:44 AM
Verizon has every right to be pissed off. The FCC was in the wrong. They should've auctioned off that spectrum, that is all Verizon wanted; to have the chance to buy it themselves. Nextel is trying to get something very valuable for free or at the very least, very cheap. It is Nextel's own fault that their services interfere with ER Systems. They knew about this and tried to hide it but finally admitted it. So, Nextel should have to pay the full amount to relocate everyone affected in this ordeal and also pay the other full amount AT AN AUCTION for that spectrum. My idea would've saved problems for the ER systems. The only difference in mine and what the FCC handed down is that Nextel wouldn't have gotten away with getting it for so ...
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muchdrama

Jul 9, 2004, 9:47 AM
SBacklin said:
Verizon has every right to be pissed off. The FCC was in the wrong. They should've auctioned off that spectrum, that is all Verizon wanted; to have the chance to buy it themselves. Nextel is trying to get something very valuable for free or at the very least, very cheap. It is Nextel's own fault that their services interfere with ER Systems. They knew about this and tried to hide it but finally admitted it. So, Nextel should have to pay the full amount to relocate everyone affected in this ordeal and also pay the other full amount AT AN AUCTION for that spectrum. My idea would've saved problems for the ER systems. The only difference in mine and what the FCC handed down is that Nextel wouldn't have
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crazylegged

Jul 9, 2004, 11:46 AM
There are some issues which must be pointed out in all of this:
1. Verizon didn't used to complain about anything when the FCC was giving away wireless licenses for free in the mid 80s.
2. Nextel is giving up 8.5 Mhz and is getting 10 Mhz PLUS paying the retuning costs for public safety and private operators.
3. Nextel acquired all these non-contiguous licenses LEGALLY and I believe the FCC had poor vision by allowing private users to be so close to public safety on the radio spectrum.
4. Verizon's lead attorey may have stepped over the line when he wrote a letter to the FCC saying they would pursue criminal charges against FCC officials. This may come back to hurt them. (Especially when the FCC is usually in their corner)
5. This plan...
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 1:43 PM
You brought up some good points. I do believe Nextel is sincere about fixing the intereference problem. Nextel may have aquired the licenses legally. You're also right that the FCC made some poor choices in letting Nextel getting that spectrum that causes interference in the first place. Although, I see it as Nextel knew for a very long time that they were causing problems. They first tried to deny it, then admitted it. I seriously don't believe Verizon is doing all this to keep the problems with interference ongoing. The 1.9Ghz spectrum is highly valuable and Verizon and Cingular both want a shot at it. Verizon is right in saying that the FCC should auction it off, immediately so if Nextel does win it they fix the interference situa...
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crazylegged

Jul 9, 2004, 2:25 PM
Also remember that Nextel doesn't have to do anything and could just walk away, so they do have some leverage. They would never be obligated to pay for the retuning of public safety by virtue of their legal acquisition of the spectrum without getting anything in return.

The FCC could also just take the spectrum from Nextel with the right of eminent domain, but would have to pay a fair market price. If this spectrum they are giving up is worth $1.6-2B, then the FCC would have to pay this to reclaim it plus the cost of retuning public safety radios (est. by nextel at $850mm). So an outlay of $2.5-2.8B by the FCC (or Treasury) doesn't seem feasible. Then if they did auction this spectrum off it would probably garner $5-6B. They would get ...
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 2:48 PM
Possibly, but it must be understood and I'm not saying you don't, I'm just saying that it needs to be understood that Verizon is in the right with what they are doing, if Nextel were to walk away from it, Nextel would be looked at unfavorably and that could be their downfall. Nextel just needs to face the fact that it is their service that is causing the problems and they shouldn't be able to squirm out of paying full price at an auction.
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crazylegged

Jul 9, 2004, 6:15 PM
I know that the wireless game was diferent in the 80s, it was a good opening cheap shot though...
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SBacklin

Jul 9, 2004, 6:17 PM
yeah it was, LOL, all in good fun i guess
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muchdrama

Jul 9, 2004, 3:52 PM
crazylegged said:
There are some issues which must be pointed out in all of this:
1. Verizon didn't used to complain about anything when the FCC was giving away wireless licenses for free in the mid 80s.
2. Nextel is giving up 8.5 Mhz and is getting 10 Mhz PLUS paying the retuning costs for public safety and private operators.
3. Nextel acquired all these non-contiguous licenses LEGALLY and I believe the FCC had poor vision by allowing private users to be so close to public safety on the radio spectrum.
4. Verizon's lead attorey may have stepped over the line when he wrote a letter to the FCC saying they would pursue criminal charges against FCC officials. This may come back to hurt them. (Especially when the FCC is
...
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