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Senators Intro 4G Disclosure Bill

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I applaud this!

turnman34

Oct 12, 2011, 5:13 PM
i agree with this. with so many confusing ads and all about 4g. the consumer does not really know what 4g is. this may clear it up for many who really don't have a clue of what 4g is...
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that1guy

Oct 12, 2011, 5:25 PM
I agree as well,

although I'm still unsure if customers (the average ones atleast) will still understand anything about LTE, HSPA, speeds and such.
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Jayshmay

Oct 12, 2011, 6:14 PM
Just tell them that it's the same, and sometimes faster than their cable modem at home, a simple comparison.
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that1guy

Oct 12, 2011, 7:59 PM
Well, I guess that could work, but sometimes my cable modem can be very slow or really fast depending on when.

I think a simple solution would be to tell what tech it is, and the expected speeds (and guarantee those speeds, most importantly). That's what I liked about Verizon, when they mentioned the range of speeds to be (5-12mb down and 2-5mb up), as opposed to AT&T, who's just saying, and I quote, "its 10x faster". 10x faster than what?!
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yarmock

Oct 12, 2011, 11:03 PM
Sprint does that too but they at least say what their 3g speeds should be so you at least get an idea. I do like verizons range. even though they undercut what it really is in most areas, at least right now with not that many LTE handsets in every market.
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yarmock

Oct 12, 2011, 5:29 PM
The average user just uses it for social media(facebook, twitter, etc) so telling them the peeds wont affect them at all. To me its a waste, there are much more important laws to be passing. But what can I do?
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that1guy

Oct 12, 2011, 5:30 PM
Vote?
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yarmock

Oct 12, 2011, 5:32 PM
I do, but these brain dead senators aren't in my state.
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WiWavelength

Oct 12, 2011, 6:20 PM
yarmock said:
I do, but these brain dead senators aren't in my state.


If you think that Al Franken, a very learned man who graduated cum laude from Harvard, is a "brain dead senator," then that speaks more to your intelligence (or lack thereof) than it does to his.

AJ
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yarmock

Oct 12, 2011, 6:38 PM
His education doesn't really matter when hes passing bills that dont help the country one bit.
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turnman34

Oct 12, 2011, 7:09 PM
i doubt that this so called "brain dead senator" as you called him is just worrying about this. atleast somebody there is helping the people they represent and others, us consumers with more knowledge. yes there are more important things for them to do. like i said, not sure he is just dealing with the communication world....
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island-guy

Oct 12, 2011, 11:58 PM
I couldn't help but laugh when the new atrix 2 was touted as being capable of 21 Mbps.....their 4G hsdpa can't even deliver anywhere near the 14 Mbps the Atrix 1 is capable of.......I hope they will finally get some clearly defined, real-world performance criteria to organize this mess....
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acdc1a

Oct 13, 2011, 7:35 AM
The LAST thing we need is our government wasting time and our tax dollars on something like this.
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Slammer

Oct 13, 2011, 9:16 AM
No. The LAST thing we need, is the carriers taking advantage of the consumer base by false advertising and misrepresenting their escalated speeds of absolute optimal conditions. The public needs to know what thier actual speeds should be.

And on a political note, I happen to support Al Franken and his position. He is one of the few government officials representing us on a civilian level. We need more like him.

John B.
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acdc1a

Oct 13, 2011, 9:35 AM
If you believe that government has a role in everyone's life there are places other than this country where you can reside. It's not the government's role to define technology or force others to define that technology. Consumers CAN think for themselves and can use the service at most carriers for 14 days to decide.

Our national debt is nearly 14.9 trillion dollars. Until that debt is manageable no other bills should be considered.
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Ghosthendrikson

Oct 13, 2011, 11:18 AM
acdc1a said:
If you believe that government has a role in everyone's life there are places other than this country where you can reside.


Excellent use of sweeping, generalized Fox News soundbites.

This is not about Government playing a role in everyone's lives. This about one of the things the Government SHOULD be doing, and frankly doing a better job of it. Consumer Advocacy.

You're correct that people can trial service and decide for themselves. That doesn't mean that companies should be allowed to misguide and/or out right lie about their services.

And if before you respond with "Free Markets regulate themselves". Please go back and review what's been going on with the Financial industry sin...
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acdc1a

Oct 13, 2011, 1:03 PM
What kind of ego-centered, entitled mentality thinks it's anyone's responsibility to protect them other than the person looking back in the mirror?
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Ghosthendrikson

Oct 13, 2011, 2:43 PM
acdc1a said:
What kind of ego-centered, entitled mentality thinks it's anyone's responsibility to protect them other than the person looking back in the mirror?


Wow, you're really good at making these broad sweeping statements.

So then in your opinion, we have no use for Police, Emergency Services (fire, medical), Armed Forces, the FDA, FCC.

In fact by this logic, you're basically advocating nothing short of an Anarchistic society where literally every man, woman, and child has to rely solely on what they can accomplish themselves.

LOL. Ah thanks for the discussion acdc1a. I didn't realize there were people as ignorant as you still kicking around this country.
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acdc1a

Oct 13, 2011, 2:49 PM
FCC, no way. FDA...are you kidding me? Drug companies run the FDA. How many drugs are recalled after clearing the FDA?

Police fire and medical are LOCAL not federal in nature. Armed forces in this country, protecting this country are certainly necessary. Policing the world, not so much.

How did this become about anything other than the Nanny State dictating a 4G standard?
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 2:24 PM
Why has the wireless industry expanded and seen such massive growth and innovation in the last few years?

Because the industry is new, and as such it is one of the few areas of the economy that the government hasn't yet regulated into oblivion....

This freedom that we enjoy is now in danger of dying, and regulations like this are nothing less than a rope tightening around the neck of the wireless industry to hasten its death. There are those who don't want it to die, and the sponsors of this bill ight now are standing beside the body screaming 'tighten that rope, it ain't dying fast enough'.....
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Ghosthendrikson

Oct 13, 2011, 2:38 PM
1) You're blowing the scope of this bill WAY out of proportion.

2) Show me hard evidence that regulations have killed an industry.
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acdc1a

Oct 13, 2011, 2:56 PM
Over-regulation costs jobs. That's indisputable. It may not kill an industry entirely but everyone pays. See the banks charging for using debit cards because government wanted to protect the little guy. Now those who can least afford it (people keeping low balances) are set to pay the most in fees. Great job government.
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Slammer

Oct 13, 2011, 4:39 PM
"Over-regulation" is not even close to saturating the private sector of the wireless industry. In my opinion, there's not nearly enough. The wireless industry is growing rapidly, yet as we've seen with past practices of carriers, everything has changed to work in their favor. If this were oil and groceries we are talking about, you would not be taking this path. With a possible duopoly looming over our heads, it might just come down to us sending smoke signals to text everyone. I don't want our communications going way of our utilities.

Please sit down and think about it before criticizing something good coming out of Washington D.C. for once. Instead, direct your concerns to the issues you would like abolished.

I get tired of people ...
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 4:48 PM
If one company comes along and really cleans up, really makes a lot of money on selling computers or lunch boxes or whatever, the government comes along and says 'now, now, you have to stop that, you can't be a monopoly'.....and they break it up or whatever....

But when it is the government ITSELF which is the coercive and anti-competitive monopoly, who is going to step in and say 'now, now government, you can't be a monopoly' and provide some healthy competition?
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Slammer

Oct 13, 2011, 5:09 PM
The Government is not a monopoly and never will be. It is soley in place controlled by the people of this country. And that is why Government is so complex; yet simple. Too many differences in how you think, I think, our neighbor thinks etc. Government has to control all these differences and create a medium for all of us to abide by. Why is this hard to understand by people of these forums. Passion for phones is great, but at what expense? You can't honestly speak to me in a straight face and say you are not consumer in some form and have no interest in being protected.

Now I'm not saying our Government is without flaw, but I do give credit when they do consider our needs. Since I am a consumer, I will fight to have choices and the righ...
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 4:23 PM
"Show me hard evidence that regulations have killed an industry."

You have GOT to be kidding me...

Every year corporations in America spend the equivalent of the GNP of Canada simply to comply with federal regulations. You don't think that massive waste of money is economically harmful?

There is little domestic manufacturing, it's all been outsourced overseas....guess why?

The American auto industry is on its last legs, and will be extinct before long, guess why?

The banks are all going bankrupt, guess why?

Consider the impact of government regulation....it stalls innovation and halts progress.


When was the last time there was a new 'wonder drug' released?

From 1900-1950 was a period of vast expansion of the phar...
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Slammer

Oct 13, 2011, 4:51 PM
You're right. Complying with regulations cost us money. If there were no regulations or laws, we wouldn't have to spend money to convict anyone for doing anything wrong. Just let them do what they please.

Yes. This would save us a ton of cash. However, I don't think we could guarantee what condition society would be in. Would we?

There is such thing as over regulation. But there is also such a thing as too much of bad and not enough good. That is what we should be focusing on. Get rid of the bad and allow the good.

I stand by my belief that protecting the consumers and homeland should be optimal in congress' obligation. Do not take this action and cast it aside as just another regulation. It is for the consumer interests and that's...
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 5:11 PM
when you do things for them that they can and SHOULD do for themselves....all you do is create a society filled with citizens who cannot and will not think for themselves....


It is the responsibility of consumers, before they spend their own money, to find out what things like '4G' mean...and it isn't hard to do that, all they have to do is spend 5 minutes at wikipedia...or look at carrier web pages.....it's not a huge investment of time or resources...
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Slammer

Oct 13, 2011, 5:49 PM
I have held jobs for 34 years, raised my kids, sent them through college, taken care of my houses, cars, vacations, and my disabled wife.

I think paying Government to act as a maid so I can spend the time to concentrate on these more important aspects, is worth it. It doesn't mean I can't do the other things.

John B.
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WiWavelength

Oct 13, 2011, 9:53 PM
T Bone said:
You really think that increasing the cost of doing business by that much doesn't have a detrimental effect on the economy?


Do you really think that business and industry have proven themselves principled enough to act virtuously without regulation? History, which you love to reference, has demonstrated largely the opposite result.

Yet, you would throw out numerous federal regulations, thus "throw under the bus" workers' rights, consumers' rights, public safety, the environment, etc.

You deserve to stumble and have the bus roll over you, back up, and roll over you again.

AJ
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Ghosthendrikson

Oct 14, 2011, 8:47 AM
I ask you to provide hard evidence to support your claim that regulations in fact KILL industries. All you have provided in response is page full of hyperbole and conjecture.

Each one of your "statements" is concluded with a question of "guess why?" Which you then fail to answer for me.

The key to presenting a strong and convincing argument is to provide a clear and thorough point that is supported by factual evidence.

You have done nothing here but write up what appears to be a talking points for Glenn Beck.

PS The banking industry was on the verge of collapse BECAUSE we de-regulated the industry. De-regulation allowed savings and loan banks to become investment banks as well. Then thanks to relaxations in the mortgage indus...
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Vosim

Oct 13, 2011, 10:59 PM
That's a great troll post! It's not the government's job to make sure things are fair, right? The cops should let bank robbers go, because the government can't force us to define what crime is. And civil rights? Ha.
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 11:35 PM
Fair for whom exactly? Fair from whose perspective?

Fairness is a subjective concept, no two people can ever agree on what the word means in any particular context.

Life is inherently unfair...let's get real, the government cannot fix that.

No matter what is said or done, 50% of the population will always have an income below the national median....government can't fix that.


But that was a damn good straw man argument, I'll give you that.
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WiWavelength

Oct 14, 2011, 12:01 AM
T Bone said:
No matter what is said or done, 50% of the population will always have an income below the national median....government can't fix that.


If every term in the set is equal, then no term is less than nor greater than the median.

AJ
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acdc1a

Oct 14, 2011, 6:52 AM
So in your world AJ, the doctor makes the same as the garbage man who makes the same as the guy flipping burgers who makes the same as the guy on the automotive assembly line.

There's a country for you, it's Cuba. Even they've put in reforms to allow for capitalism which will bring income disparity. Median by definition means 1/2 make more and 1/2 make less.
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WiWavelength

Oct 14, 2011, 10:12 AM
acdc1a said:
So in your world AJ, the doctor makes the same as the garbage man who makes the same as the guy flipping burgers who makes the same as the guy on the automotive assembly line.

There's a country for you, it's Cuba. Even they've put in reforms to allow for capitalism which will bring income disparity. Median by definition means 1/2 make more and 1/2 make less.


Nope. The bluster above is all yours.

I merely pointed out yet another flaw -- an overlooked possibility -- in T Bone's reasoning. You then added to the comedy of errors with your wild assumption about my economic views.

Rational, critical thinking is in short supply in this forum, sadly.

AJ
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Vosim

Oct 14, 2011, 4:43 PM
I guess if you want to BS with philosophy, we could do that. Obviously carriers don't want to be 100% truthful, as with pretty much anyone who's trying to sell a product. Except Verizon, they probably love this. Their network is boss. If you can't look at what's being proposed as more "fair," then maybe an ethics class would help.
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 1:15 PM
To spend 5 minutes looking at a web site to learn the basic facts before they sign a two year commitment to spend thousands of dollars in wireless service charges...

then maybe they deserve to be scammed.

Honestly.....it isn't that hard to find this stuff out.....just to the carrier webpage where it is all spelled out, then go to 'wikipedia.org' and look up '4G' and read what the article says....


There has to come a point where we expect people to be intelligent....rather than expecting the government to spoon feed us cherry picked information which serves its own agenda.....(Do you think the information provided by government is unbiased? Come on man you're smarter than that)
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movekwik2002

Oct 13, 2011, 12:33 PM
If there was a cost difference to use a 4g device ( mind you I can only speak of my carrier ) Then there should be some regulation by the FCC or state attorney. All consumers have the ability to do their research just as many of us on phone scoop do ( even the fan-boys who skew it to their own agenda).

I will not get into a debate on who is best and who's marketing is true. But if you are shopping YOU have the ability to do research. I have friends with TMO, VZW, SPRINT and AT&T. If I was in the market for a new phone and carrier I WOULD PLAY WITH THEIR PHONES!!!!!
Go to speedtest.net on them and use the data.

Maybe this is the whole problem with our society. They want someone to do it for them. Regulate this and tell me I can do th...
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acdc1a

Oct 13, 2011, 1:05 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Why bother shopping around or doing your homework when someone else can do it for you? These are the same types who sue fast food chains because they can no longer fit in the booth. It's everyone's fault but their own. Everyone's a victim.
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turnman34

Oct 13, 2011, 9:10 PM
so what your saying is if someone wants to enlighten you about some misleading info, you'll just turn your back and say no thanks.. i'm sorry but if the gov't feels it needs to help the people out i say go for it. if you choose to ignore it, that is your right. but telling them to butt out is stupid, just my opinion....
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 1:08 PM
"I do not want them to worry about data speeds and the cellular industry, thats why we have the FCC!"

I seriously doubt whether we really need an FCC...

Let's not forget where the FCC originated...

During the FDR administration, many radio stations started running shows hosted by people who were fiercely critical of the New Deal....

FDR, fascist that he was, thought dissent was something up with which he will not put....so the FCC was created to create arbitrary rules which could be used to force those dissenting voice off the air....and the effort was successful....

The FCC was originally founded for the express purpose of limiting free speech, it has not wavered from that mission.
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Ghosthendrikson

Oct 13, 2011, 2:46 PM
Hahhahaa. T Bone and your buddy AC1 must walk around very bitter all day. Tell me, does that tin foil hat get itchy when under direct sun?
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 4:03 PM
You are implicitly admitting that you have lose the argument.

Learn history buddy what I said is correct.
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WiWavelength

Oct 13, 2011, 9:29 PM
Do you win the argument by way of specious, ideologically slanted conjecture about the origins of the FCC, not to mention, genetic fallacy?

AJ
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Ghosthendrikson

Oct 14, 2011, 8:35 AM
Oh I thought we had just resorted to throwing out information with no factual support or evidence.

In every single post you have made, you reference history and "fact". But when asked to provide support for all these claims you're making, you have yet to provide anything in the way of support of those claims.

I will tell you what, I will start taking you seriously when you can provide me with some references supporting all of your claims.

Until then, my tin hat theory remains.
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T Bone

Oct 13, 2011, 1:04 PM
It is entirely unreasonable to expect people to be capable of doing their own research, think for themselves, or be capable of doing anything at all for themselves. Government should do everything for us....I'm sick of running my own life, I totally want the government to step in and do it for me.....it's about time.

And just yesterday I read that 50% of the population has an income less than the median income. Hopefully they will start working on fixing that soon.
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