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Verizon Clamps Down on Heaviest 5% of Users

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actual data capacity of an EV-DO carrier channel

WiWavelength

Sep 17, 2011, 8:04 PM
Many people seem to have an ill formed notion (or just no idea) of the actual data capacity of an EV-DO carrier channel. It is certainly not infinite.

The maximum amount of downlink (i.e. cell site to mobile) data that an EV-DO Rev A carrier channel can deliver during a 30 day billing period is ~949 GB. Now, that assumes that the carrier channel can deliver the ideal maximum DRC Index 14 (3072 kbps) continuously 24 hours per day, seven days per week for an entire month. Real world performance does not even approach that limit.

Instead, in real world usage, most data activity occurs during only 16 out of 24 hours per day. And the carrier channel can never deliver the ideal maximum 3072 kbps all the time, as many mobiles frequently e...
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mycool

Sep 17, 2011, 8:39 PM
I love your posts, very technical...

But, I do have to say, the other solution is to invest in the network to increase capacity.
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T Bone

Sep 17, 2011, 9:17 PM
"But, I do have to say, the other solution is to invest in the network to increase capacity."

At best only a short term solution, no much how much capacity you have, eventually you will run out.
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mycool

Sep 17, 2011, 10:47 PM
T Bone said:
"But, I do have to say, the other solution is to invest in the network to increase capacity."

At best only a short term solution, no much how much capacity you have, eventually you will run out.


We're only in that situation because the network operators stopped investing and consumers did not stop consuming. We moved from 56K to broadband in a short period of time. The next step was supposed to be Fiber Optics, which is in some areas, but the network operators/ISPs stopped investing in that.

Wireless is advancing fast, but I honestly think we could have been further along if the network operators invested more of their money into the network and innovation instead of sitting on th...
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CellStudent

Sep 17, 2011, 11:25 PM
mycool said:


We're only in that situation because the network operators stopped investing and consumers did not stop consuming.


I won't expect you to understand enough wireless physics or regulatory framework to know why you're wrong, but you're wrong.

The solution is NOT simply to invest more in the cellular networks. The real solution is for the heavy data users to pony up and put in a landline internet connection with a $50 Wi-Fi router at the locations where they're consuming 6 bagillion GBs every month; instead of expecting the rest of us to subsidize their youtube addictions for them.

Cellular networks CAN'T support the growing data needs of our society! The only places where wi...
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jrfdsf

Sep 18, 2011, 6:55 AM
The bottom line is Verizon promised UNLIMITED internet to those who bought it. The fact that they are "acting like hogs" is irrelevant. When a company decides to penalize those who actually use a service as it was promised to them, they risk losing that customer base. It is no one's fault but big red for promising what they now cannot deliver.
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wecivus

Sep 18, 2011, 8:40 AM
Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and all others should NEVER advertise unlimited data on wireless network if it cant handle it. They only do this because it sounds good to the consumer. Wireless networks cant handle this kind of load that some customers put on it. There should always be a cap. 5GB or so would be fair or maybe less. I dont blame network operators (Most of them) for not being able to support it, just dont say its unlimited when it will lead to trouble supporting it.
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jrfdsf

Sep 18, 2011, 8:56 AM
Well said! Smile
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T Bone

Sep 18, 2011, 9:08 AM
People have to have common sense and understand basic principles....

There is no such thing as 'unlimited' and there never will be...

In the business world, 'unlimited' doesn't mean 'genuinely infinite' it doesn't mean that there is absolutely no cap, it means that the cap is set high enough that they assume few people will be able to reach it...it doesn't mean you get infinite usage....

A promise 'Unlimited' ALWAYS has a corollary, 'unlimited' subject to reasonable restraints and restrictions and reasonable behavior on the part of the consumer....

Look at, say, The Olive Garden, their commercials promise 'unlimited pasta and bread sticks'....

Do you think is truly 'unlimited'? Of course not....customers have to be reasonable...
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Versed

Sep 18, 2011, 11:57 AM
T Bone,
Unlimited mobile data plans weren't meant to be replacement of home internet service, home cable and home cable tv onDemand service. It wasn't meant for those to download DVD and BlueRay disk images on a daily or more basis. BUT, I don't buy 2gb either. Watching a movie on Hulu or HBOgo isn't going to crash or run up 30gb of data. Unless you use the Olive Garden premise as you posted earlier. I'm sort of in the middle, I don't buy a 2gb cap, or even a 5. But I do think there is a point to which it is excessive.
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wdfichtel

Sep 18, 2011, 1:45 PM
T Bone said:Go to The Olive Garden at noon on a Saturday, keep ordering new pasta and bread sticks.....trust me on this one....you won't have to worry about whether you will be allowed that 3,987th bowl of pasta, they'll kick out long before then.


Good analogy.

And now I want Olive Garden. Razz
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jrfdsf

Sep 18, 2011, 4:57 PM
T Bone said:
People have to have common sense and understand basic principles....

There is no such thing as 'unlimited' and there never will be...

In the business world, 'unlimited' doesn't mean 'genuinely infinite' it doesn't mean that there is absolutely no cap, it means that the cap is set high enough that they assume few people will be able to reach it...it doesn't mean you get infinite usage....

A promise 'Unlimited' ALWAYS has a corollary, 'unlimited' subject to reasonable restraints and restrictions and reasonable behavior on the part of the consumer....

Look at, say, The Olive Garden, their commercials promise 'unlimited pasta and bread sticks'....

Do you think is truly 'unlimited'? Of course not..
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mycool

Sep 18, 2011, 12:54 PM
CellStudent said:


I won't expect you to understand enough wireless physics or regulatory framework to know why you're wrong, but you're wrong.


You're right... I probably won't know the physics of it, but I'm still curious. Is there a scientific limit we already know to exist and are we there yet?
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CellStudent

Sep 18, 2011, 4:39 PM
mycool said:

You're right... I probably won't know the physics of it, but I'm still curious. Is there a scientific limit we already know to exist and are we there yet?


The primary method "cellular" systems use to increase capacity is to subdivide a cell. Take what used to one cell, cut it into three or four smaller "mini-cells" each with their own coverage area. Then subdivide again when it's congested, then subdivide again...

The original mobile phones weren't "cellular". There was one town that covered all of Philadelphia, then when demand increased, they split it into a handful of cells, then a few dozen, then a few hundred, etc.

The basic problem (in urban areas- which is the only place ther...
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T Bone

Sep 18, 2011, 4:45 PM
Practical problems such as FCC regulation, NIMBYISM and whatnot that prevents limits carrier's ability to build new towers even when doing so actually will help relieve congestion.

But no, you're right, the only real long term solution is offloading data onto WiFi networks, which is why at&t's plan to expand WiFi hotspots in congested areas is actually a really good idea.
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mycool

Sep 18, 2011, 11:04 PM
Hmm, I see what you're saying now. If we continuously subdivide we will inevitably ruin the system. But, on the other end, have we hit the limit of making the individual cells more efficient so we can avoid having to subdivide so much?
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CellStudent

Sep 19, 2011, 4:38 PM
mycool said:
...have we hit the limit of making the individual cells more efficient so we can avoid having to subdivide so much?


The MIMO techniques used by LTE are pushing the limits of efficiency. They actually (theoretically) allow for data rates HIGHER than the Shannon-Hartley Limit because they allow a single user to use two or four channels simultaneously.

One possible solution is to make more spectrum available- but that's a long term solution. And because new spectrum bands require new handsets, and the new handsets have to support the old and the new frequencies...

If we had as much spectrum bandwidth available as we needed, every handset would have to have 5 or 6 cellular antennas inside ...
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Jayshmay

Sep 18, 2011, 2:46 AM
So do you think it's feasible to let users get away with more like 5, or 7gb's, before throttling, rather than a measly 2?

So many seem to think 2gb's is so, so, so much data. But people don't stop to think how much video there is now a days. I have apps for all 3 major news networks on my smartphone, and all 3 apps have news videos. So 2gigs really isn't much. Fortunatly this doesn't effect me, cause I have a 4G smartphone.
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Mossberg

Sep 18, 2011, 9:03 AM
I watch about a half hour of YouTube, use a bit of the browser, and live radio and I use five or six gigs a month.

I really don't feel like I qualify as a "heavy user".
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Jayshmay

Sep 18, 2011, 9:26 AM
I've got 6 days left in my billing cycle, and I've used 6.8gb's. So we're pretty similar in usage.
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T Bone

Sep 18, 2011, 9:42 AM
I'm a pretty heavy data user in terms of the amount of time I spend using data....I stream music through Pandora/Slacker/IHeartRadio pretty much all day long every day at work....and I've never used more than about 500MB....

But then I use a Blackberry, a phone which is designed to be data efficient and which uses 'data packeting' to limit the impact on the network....and it does similar things like blocking images on emails (unless you request to download images) to reduce data usage...

The reason why RIM does this because Blackberries use the Blackberry Internet Server and/or the Blackberry Enterprise Server, so since the data goes through RIM's own servers they naturally want to minimize the impact to reduce their own cost.

Other...
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Mossberg

Sep 18, 2011, 10:12 AM
Verizon's new blackberry with physical keyboard and touch screen is looking very attractive to me. I am kinda spoiled though. I could brew a pot of coffee in the amount of time it took to load a web page on my Tour.
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jrfdsf

Sep 18, 2011, 5:04 PM
T Bone said:
I'm a pretty heavy data user in terms of the amount of time I spend using data....I stream music through Pandora/Slacker/IHeartRadio pretty much all day long every day at work....and I've never used more than about 500MB....

But then I use a Blackberry, a phone which is designed to be data efficient and which uses 'data packeting' to limit the impact on the network....and it does similar things like blocking images on emails (unless you request to download images) to reduce data usage...

The reason why RIM does this because Blackberries use the Blackberry Internet Server and/or the Blackberry Enterprise Server, so since the data goes through RIM's own servers they naturally want to minimize the impact t
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T Bone

Sep 18, 2011, 7:17 PM
Than the principle that, at some point, you are expected to scale back your usage.

We can debate until the cows come home where the threshold should be, the point is that there should be one.

If it is indeed true that only 5% of Verizon customers ever use more than 2 GB a month, than this is a reasonable threshold. As capacity increases, maybe it can be increased to 5 GB or 10 GB or whatever.

The point is, to establish the principle that a cap is needed.
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