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LightSquared Blames GPS Industry for Interference in Report

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When all else fails...

crood

Jun 30, 2011, 10:06 AM
...blame everyone else.
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cutboy1985

Jun 30, 2011, 10:10 AM
Well at least they came up with a fix for the GPS problem and not just telling the GPS industry to fix their circuits.
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kleiny

Jun 30, 2011, 11:53 AM
Well, their solutions resolves 99.5% of the issues. So lets see how much of the US will have an issue. There are roughly 3.79 Mil Sq Mi of area in the USA. That would mean that only 18,970 square miles will have an issue. That is merely the area of Maryland and Vermont together. Since now the FAA has migrated to GPS landing at a majority of US airports, not sure I would want to know where that 0.5% of the US that is affected is.

You call that a fix, I call that a desperate attempt to use spectrum and blaming those who were already there first, i.e. GPS. They knew going in the quality of those units, the issues with the spectrum and the risks associated with using L band for terrestrial communications. Now they want everyone else to step ...
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carmodboy99

Jun 30, 2011, 12:20 PM
kleiny said:
Well, their solutions resolves 99.5% of the issues. So lets see how much of the US will have an issue. There are roughly 3.79 Mil Sq Mi of area in the USA. That would mean that only 18,970 square miles will have an issue. That is merely the area of Maryland and Vermont together. Since now the FAA has migrated to GPS landing at a majority of US airports, not sure I would want to know where that 0.5% of the US that is affected is.

You call that a fix, I call that a desperate attempt to use spectrum and blaming those who were already there first, i.e. GPS. They knew going in the quality of those units, the issues with the spectrum and the risks associated with using L band for terrestrial communications. Now
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Jayshmay

Jun 30, 2011, 8:46 PM
Good point.
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WiWavelength

Jun 30, 2011, 10:06 PM
carmodboy99 said:
2nd, Again, they're right! If GPS wasnt bleeding over into the spectrum that the government sold to the for use then there would be no interference issues. If I were LS I would go after them for usage fees for all the GPS waves propagated over the L spectrum that they own, even if they did finally decide to cave and work with me in light of this obvious infringement on LightSquared's properties.


Nope. You misunderstand the issue. This dispute has nothing to do with GPS transmissions.

No GPS transmissions are "bleeding over into the spectrum" assigned to LightSquared, nor have "GPS waves propagated over" LightSquared's signals.

But the dispute has everything to do with GPS recep...
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Phoner

Jul 1, 2011, 9:18 AM
LightSquared's terrestrial transmissions interfere with many GPS receivers.

If the receivers don't properly filter out the (legitimate) signals on the adjacent bands, transmissions on those bands will cause problems. Not necessarily LightSquared's fault.
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WiWavelength

Jul 1, 2011, 10:05 AM
Phoner said:
If the receivers don't properly filter out the (legitimate) signals on the adjacent bands, transmissions on those bands will cause problems. Not necessarily LightSquared's fault.


Nor is that the fault of the GPS unit manufacturers, as GPS has operated harmoniously for the last 15 years within the original rules for L band satellite spectrum circa 1500 MHz. Only with the rule change to allow LightSquared to pursue terrestrial transmission has the filtration issue arisen. Thus, I fault the basic idea that satellite spectrum adjacent to a resource as vital and ubiquitous as GPS should be switched to terrestrial use.

AJ
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carmodboy99

Jul 1, 2011, 11:45 AM
This is the Native Americans vs EarlY American Settlers argument, and you're siding with the natives, which clearly has never been the "American way". They roamed freely over lands that the government hadn't decided to sell or grant to anyone yet, Then came the settlers claiming rights to the space granted by the government, and fighting ensued. Just saying... and GPS as it stands is only "vital" because people see little or no reason to improve its current condition due to a lack of competition in terms of the technology and service it provides, much like the nations power grid.
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kleiny

Jul 1, 2011, 11:14 AM
No, they are not 'right' as the FCC rules regarding interference mitigation are quite clear. The incumbent systems have right to claim interference from the new source. This was fought and lost when carriers in lower parts of AWS caused interference with TV broadcasters remote systems. The FCC simply did not allocate any guard band in that case and in was crappy filters on the TV gear that was simply not rejecting signals from the AWS Node B's. Who had to resolve the issue? The AWS carriers. Why? Because the FCC ruled that they were incumbent, therefore they should have to be dealt with, i.e. not the cause but the result.

They knew these systems were out there and it is a RECEIVE only device. The reason that they use those lower quality ...
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carmodboy99

Jul 1, 2011, 11:58 AM
I wasn't aware of the precedent in forming my opinion, thanks for that, you learn something new every day! $99 a unit still does not a saturated market make, but again, in light of the precedent set, I guess it does all fall on LS and no one else. I still revert to the Natives vs Early Settlers analogy, its just interesting how hypocritical our govt is once again.

The problem with the percentage statistics that you threw out is that YOU pointed it out as a glaring fault of .5% (which it is) but now you're saying we cant go by statistics, citing another great example, soap killing 99.9% of billions of germs. For that example and the fallibility of just about everything we know of statistics are used as a scare tactic when its useful, and...
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Versed

Jun 30, 2011, 4:12 PM
cutboy1985 said:
Well at least they came up with a fix for the GPS problem and not just telling the GPS industry to fix their circuits.


Let me see, how long has gps been out? How long has Lightsquared been around?
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iDont Care

Jun 30, 2011, 2:03 PM
crood said:
...blame everyone else.


Yep. Must have taken a cue from Sprint.
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Versed

Jun 30, 2011, 4:13 PM
iDont Care said:


Yep. Must have taken a cue from Sprint.


Yeah and its funny they're working with Sprint.
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cutboy1985

Jul 1, 2011, 8:07 AM
They're working other carrier's too other then just Sprint.
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CellStudent

Jun 30, 2011, 4:27 PM
I've been saying this for MONTHS on this board: The reason there were problems with the business model is that the GPS makers made the conscious decision over the past ten years to use ridiculously cheap, low quality parts that can't handle even the slightest bit of interference without completely failing.

Due to the short sightedness of Garmin, Trimble and the others, there is a significant chunk of wireless spectrum which now has to be labelled "unusable" even though it is perfectly viable, high quality spectrum!

Blame where blame is due is not dis-honorable. It's the truth: this isn't LightSquared's fault, and it never was!
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WiWavelength

Jun 30, 2011, 11:16 PM
CellStudent said:
I've been saying this for MONTHS on this board: The reason there were problems with the business model is that the GPS makers made the conscious decision over the past ten years to use ridiculously cheap, low quality parts that can't handle even the slightest bit of interference without completely failing.


C'mon, CellStudent, if you are going to make that kind of damning assertion, I certainly hope that you have the material evidence to corroborate it.

Now, back to reality, there is plenty of responsibility to go around -- LightSquared, the FCC, GPS unit manufacturers, et al.

CellStudent said:
Due to the short sightedness of Garmin, Trimble and the others, there
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CellStudent

Jul 1, 2011, 12:04 AM

C'mon, CellStudent, if you are going to make that kind of damning assertion, I certainly hope that you have the material evidence to corroborate it.


http://www.lightsquared.com/press-room/press-release ... »

GPS device test results, which were also filed at the FCC today, show unequivocally that the interference is caused by the GPS device manufacturer's decision over the last eight years to design products that depend on using spectrum assigned to other FCC licensees.


The GPS receivers aren't staying within their band. They're listening to a 20 MHz wide band to catch a 0.5 MHz wide signal because they were too chea...
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WiWavelength

Jul 1, 2011, 9:47 AM
CellStudent said:
http://www.lightsquared.com/press-room/press-release ... »


Well, I would take with a grain of salt anything that LightSquared releases on the matter, as LightSquared certainly has a vested interest in the outcome. That said, GPS receivers' expanded passband reception into LightSquared's spectrum is really beyond contention, is an established fact.

Rather, the issue is your conjecture, I believe, about the cause of the expanded passband reception: "GPS makers made the conscious decision over the past ten years to use ridiculously cheap, low quality parts that can't handle even the slightest bit of interference without comp...
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