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ITU Changes Tune, LTE and WiMax Can Be Called '4G'

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I H8 U ITU!

CellStudent

Dec 18, 2010, 2:28 PM
PUUUUUUUULLLLLEEEEAAASSSSEEEEE!

Gimme a freaking break, ITU! You just responded to a spurious complaint with an ambiguous resolution!

Where are all the scientists over there overseeing the kooks writing the press releases? Since when did the "4G" label earn a qualitative definition?

If you're going to offer up the "4G" label to "pre-4G" networks, put some sort of concrete, verifiable, pass/fail metrics on the classification so we can separate the sheep from the goats in this marketplace!


This press release is completely useless and does not provide any clarity to the situation, as far as I'm concerned.
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 18, 2010, 3:27 PM
So most carriers have basically ignored ITU standards and in the name of marketing called their networks 4G.

My question is do you think the ITU has credibility at this point since they haven't gone far enough defining it?
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CellStudent

Dec 18, 2010, 4:52 PM
Upon further inspection, it looks like what the ITU really did here was disavow all knowledge of this thing called "4G" with this release. They have decided that they will certify the next level of cellular technology "IMT-advanced" and leave the moniker "4G" lying trampled on the ground like used Bangkok hooker!

This basically leaves "4G" as a completely undefined standard from an ITU perspective. 4G may as well be a new brand of marshmallow creme as far as the standards organization is concerned.

I'm not impressed with ITU's handling of the debate. They're a smart crowd of cats but they just threw their tail between their legs and ran away from a fight.

Hard to have any respect for that...
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DiamondPro

Dec 18, 2010, 5:13 PM
They lost my respect when they said 4g has to be 100mbs. No real world wireless networks can reach that speed. Even hardwired networks have trouble hitting those speeds and most dsl cable internet providers are around 10-15mbs so 100mbs is absurd. 4g speeds should be as fast as wifi or your home internet connection. 5g should be 100mbs real world not theoretical and to be consider a 5g network u must provide that speed on avg.
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CamelTowing

Dec 18, 2010, 10:14 PM
DiamondPro said:
They lost my respect when they said 4g has to be 100mbs. No real world wireless networks can reach that speed. Even hardwired networks have trouble hitting those speeds and most dsl cable internet providers are around 10-15mbs so 100mbs is absurd. 4g speeds should be as fast as wifi or your home internet connection. 5g should be 100mbs real world not theoretical and to be consider a 5g network u must provide that speed on avg.



But that's not true man. WiMax 2 is already hitting 300-320mbs in trials.
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DiamondPro

Dec 18, 2010, 11:36 PM
Yes but its not a full network and is not expected to rollout until 2013. My problems is the itu-r completly ignored exsisting 4g networks and now their reputation is paying the price

Posted on my Epic 4g
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Jayshmay

Dec 19, 2010, 4:10 PM
2013? This says 2012:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9167699/Intel ... »

Hopefully industry pressure from Verizon will force Sprint to deploy WiMax Release 2 sooner!
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Slammer

Dec 18, 2010, 5:14 PM
The ITU has no love for how 4G is being handled. You and I had this discussion before. I feel they labled it incorrectly and you felt it did not matter how you or I felt. They were the sole owners of defining the standard. It was what of was.

I then told you it would be interesting to see how the ITU would handle this since carriers have already abused the 4G branding.

Well Cellstudent, here is our answer whether we like it or not. I feel it is respective under the current conditions of confusion.

Since VZW and Sprint are building brand new networks as opposed to applying bandaids on an existing platform, I do feel it is the beginning of a new generation rather than an extension of 3G.

Yes. The ITU has to be more articulate o...
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djdanska

Dec 18, 2010, 10:09 PM
T-Mobile's 3g/4g network has been in the works for years. I hardly call that a bandaid. They prepared for HSPA+ years ago and when they built their new aws network, they put the equipment in place. Just needed the software update and backhaul.

(Att has been rumored to have used older equipment, not capable of anything faster than 14.4Mbps. But they could easily be updating it but i have yet to hear it.)

In the end, if t-mobile gets what they want and reaches over 600Mbps, with good latency, thats all i care about. Call it a bandaid, call it crap, call it worthless. I want speed and latency and a reasonable price with no overages.
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CamelTowing

Dec 18, 2010, 10:21 PM
I look at it like WiMax and LTE are the basic infrastructure of 4G. So technically, I feel that makes it 4G. I think where some people have the problem is that they want the "fully upgraded" version of the technology. WiMax2 and LTE-A will just be an upgrade to existing network and software platforms. Its just like the upgrade path from UMTS to HSPA.
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CamelTowing

Dec 18, 2010, 10:12 PM
HawkeyeOC said:
So most carriers have basically ignored ITU standards and in the name of marketing called their networks 4G.

My question is do you think the ITU has credibility at this point since they haven't gone far enough defining it?


To tell the truth, this isn't new. The ITU originally stated that LTE and WiMax met the 4G requirements. They later added the extra requirements for IMT-Advanced. It was after Sprint and Clear were selling their tech as 4G that they changed their minds as to the definition. So now all they have done and changed back to their original spec.

What I think is hilarious is the fact that a few people are on here losing their effing minds because now they have to take back...
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DiamondPro

Dec 19, 2010, 12:34 AM
Damm right they do... 🤣

Wimax has and still is 4g otherwise the ITU would not be changing there tune. 😎
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 19, 2010, 6:54 PM
DiamondPro said:
Damm right they do... 🤣

Wimax ALONG WITH LTE has and still is 4g otherwise the ITU would not be changing there tune. 😎


Fixed it for ya just to make things fair 😁
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DiamondPro

Dec 19, 2010, 7:30 PM
Thats fine by me I'm all about fairness. Lte is 4g I never said it wasnt the ITU did. Now they did not specifically state hspa+ as 4g. So anyone including tmobile using 4g to describe hspa+ is stretching the term 4g.
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 19, 2010, 9:36 PM
DiamondPro said:
Thats fine by me I'm all about fairness. Lte is 4g I never said it wasnt the ITU did. Now they did not specifically state hspa+ as 4g. So anyone including tmobile using 4g to describe hspa+ is stretching the term 4g.


I have news for you. The marketing gurus at all the major carriers decided what was 4G a long time ago. Thats all the term 4G is. 4G sells and it will sell big no matter what tech is behind it.
I can't see a scenario where the average Sprint customer say would sit around at Starbucks with his friends that have AT&T, and Verizon phones and tell his friend from T-Mobile that all he has a phone on a wannabe 4G network 🤣

Come on...it's all fast
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djdanska

Dec 20, 2010, 12:55 AM
They where using the term 3.5G back when the max the networks could reach was 3.6Mbps.

"and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed"

14.4-21Mb with pings as low as 60ms is a HUGE improvement and a big change in capability over previous 3g technology.

When they tested verizon 4g with t-mobile's 4g (aka HSPA+ 21Mb), they where about the same! And verizon did not have many users on its lte network. Imagine if they had the load that t-mobile does on its 3g network considering the majority of their 3g phones on its network have 7.2Mb capability.
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WiWavelength

Dec 20, 2010, 4:15 PM
4G means fourth generation; it is a generational leap from 3G. A generational leap requires a new airlink. HSPA+ is Evolved HSPA; it is an evolutionary advance w/in 3G. And it requires no new airlink. If no new airlink, then not 4G. Thus, despite any irrelevant claims about speed, T-Mobile has not deployed a 4G network.

Simple logic...

AJ
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cstone

Dec 22, 2010, 3:05 PM
Did you even read the article? It stated that advanced 3g tech with substantial upgrade in speeds qualifies as 4g (or something to that effect. I didn't take the time to find the exact quote.) That throws your deffinition out the window. You are just saying that the dictionary is wrong, and we already had that discussion. I agree that HSPA+ SHOULD not be called 4g, but that is not up to me to decide. According to this definition it is as much 4g as wimax or LTE.

You're just mad because you called T-Mobile and they told you that you were Flexpay aren't you? 🤣
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DiamondPro

Dec 24, 2010, 12:14 AM
Did you read the article? Did it specifically state hspa+? Did it specifically state Wimax or Lte. Hspa+ was not included they are leaving room for long term hspa evolution which tmobile is planning on for 2013. You are indeed very misinformed and calling Hspa+ is not 4g its 3g.

http://uberoid.com/2010/12/itu-kind-of-acknowledges- ... »

https://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=7143 »
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deepskyblue

Dec 24, 2010, 11:25 AM
How can you call people misinformed?

This coming from a guy who says wimax is the global 4G standard, T-mobile's HSPA+ didn't have any users on it when it first started, and that England's Vodophone recieved US bailout dollars.
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DiamondPro

Dec 18, 2010, 4:02 PM
Poor guy, It does provide some clarity Wimax and lte can be called 4g and IMT-Advanced is the target for these carriers 4g to hit. Try to relax Mr.science guy and try not to get your panties in a bunch. Besides u don't use that much data anyway.
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 18, 2010, 8:03 PM
DiamondPro said:
Poor guy, It does provide some clarity Wimax and lte can be called 4g and IMT-Advanced is the target for these carriers 4g to hit. Try to relax Mr.science guy and try not to get your panties in a bunch. Besides u don't use that much data anyway.


I for one think this is a worthy issue to get your panties in a bunch on 🤣
Why the attack Diamond? You could learn a lot from "Mr Science Guy" as you call him
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DiamondPro

Dec 18, 2010, 8:47 PM
And he could learn a lot from me 😎

Funny how you didnt say the same thing when he called me ray charles and blind 🙄

Seems like typical troll behavior if u ask me 🤣

Sent from my Epic 4g
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 18, 2010, 9:02 PM
DiamondPro said:
And he could learn a lot from me 😎

Funny how you didnt say the same thing when he called me ray charles and blind 🙄

Seems like typical troll behavior if u ask me 🤣

Sent from my Epic 4g


He has learned what we all have learned from you. That your a...well...I'll stop there. it wouldn't have been a suitable comment for phonescoop 🙄
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DiamondPro

Dec 18, 2010, 9:06 PM
Neither would I in regards to u. And it'd be a lot worse than anything u would have to say about me.
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 18, 2010, 9:08 PM
DiamondPro said:
Neither would I in regards to u. And it'd be a lot worse than anything u would have to say about me.


I doubt that 🤣 Most people would doubt that 🤣
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CamelTowing

Dec 18, 2010, 10:27 PM
Unfortunately it just looks like you guys are afraid to admit he was right about the issue. Hell, some of you guys are even talking trash on the ITU because the organization you guys treated like the holy grail have made a decision not to your liking. Grow up. I repeatedly stated in this forum the exact opinion that the ITU finalized.
Just get over it. Move on to the next argument. Now we can just go back to the lame LTE v WiMax war now that the definition has been made.
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 18, 2010, 10:42 PM
CamelTowing said:
Unfortunately it just looks like you guys are afraid to admit he was right about the issue. Hell, some of you guys are even talking trash on the ITU because the organization you guys treated like the holy grail have made a decision not to your liking. Grow up. I repeatedly stated in this forum the exact opinion that the ITU finalized.
Just get over it. Move on to the next argument. Now we can just go back to the lame LTE v WiMax war now that the definition has been made.


He meaning Diamond? His self proclaimed "expert advice " posts are all over the place. They contradict themselves sometime several times within a single thread. No credibility whatsoever. He is kept around for giggles.
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CamelTowing

Dec 18, 2010, 10:48 PM
C'mon man. Most of the so called "experts" on here are big proponents of LTE and that's fine, but it's not like there are too many people here sticking up for Sprint. Diamond may not always be correct but he knows he defends a good product.
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 18, 2010, 11:03 PM
CamelTowing said:
C'mon man. Most of the so called "experts" on here are big proponents of LTE and that's fine, but it's not like there are too many people here sticking up for Sprint. Diamond may not always be correct but he knows he defends a good product.


Defending a product and a few shameless plugs here and there are all great. Most of us have biases one way or another based on our own past experiences. Thats also great.
Diamonds approach of a "greater evil" as he calls it does nothing but make people hate Sprint. It's actually bringing out everyones biases even more. Does nothing to help his cause. AsI mentioned, he is kept around for giggles.

People should be perfectly happy with big proponents ...
(continues)
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DiamondPro

Dec 19, 2010, 12:14 AM
That's because u people shut the voices of Sprint customers down anytime they try to give Sprint props or recognition.

For example:

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »

Notice how every response was from people not on Sprint?
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 19, 2010, 12:37 AM
DiamondPro said:
That's because u people shut the voices of Sprint customers down anytime they try to give Sprint props or recognition.

For example:

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »

Notice how every response was from people not on Sprint?


Again, you promote the anti Sprint behavior with your posts. You maybe responsible for the defection to other networks with your behavior. You go overboard with your "greater evil" that you describe. It's annoying to most.

Who cares...there is more to life than Sprint. Open your eyes, stop pretending your rich and work at Sprint stores in your spare time and you wont be regarded as the joke you have become 😲
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DiamondPro

Dec 19, 2010, 12:44 AM
If I am its because people don't wanna a better carrier. I speak the truth not some bs my employer feeds me I don't work for Sprint. I said I was considering working for them in my spare time just to see what its like. You are clearly a hater. Any comment I post that favors sprint pisses u off. U thought the storms was a great phone shows how much u know about tech. Be mad because I have a better carrier then u do with a much better phone because thats all that really matters on phonescoop not your bs opinion or mine. The whole greater evil is to combat the lies people like you tell I have yet to see you correct any other fanboys for any other provider or even someone who just post false information. Only Sprint customers. Your the biggest t...
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 19, 2010, 1:27 AM
Some people don't want to switch, some can't, others hate being told by self proclaimed know it alls that they should do something.

kids often overuse the term "hater" these days as meaning anything that differs from their own point of view. get over it, there are differences of opinions and the world can't change to Sprint because you want them to.

The argument about you having a better carrier than me is silly and immature. Who cares who has what carrier. They all have their pros and cons...all of them. Your response reads like a comic book story about...the uh...good person fighting evil. Grow up. All kinds are on here.
Luckily we all only have to deal with you on xmas break like we always do. Your tantrums die down in the new year...
(continues)
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DiamondPro

Dec 19, 2010, 2:38 AM
I never told anyone to switch... I really dont even know why im still responding to u other then to see just how long u will keep trolling. If anyone says sprint sucks or I hope sprint goes out of business I dont see u trolling there post but as soon as anyone says something positive about Sprint u jump all over them keep trollin
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 19, 2010, 1:29 PM
DiamondPro said:
I never told anyone to switch... I really dont even know why im still responding to u other then to see just how long u will keep trolling. If anyone says sprint sucks or I hope sprint goes out of business I dont see u trolling there post but as soon as anyone says something positive about Sprint u jump all over them keep trollin


Diamond...you can't hold your own on here. Most people consider you a joke and even people in the Sprint forum are tired of your antics. Your against everyone and everyone is against you. again...we only have a couple more weeks of you before your tantrums let up and you go (((poof)))

as soon as anyone says something positive about Sprint I jump all over them?....
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djdanska

Dec 19, 2010, 3:57 AM
It's no different with t-mobile customers. I have always thought sprint and t-mobile customers got more slack than verizon and att customers. Most of the coverage claims of tmobile not having good coverage has changed. Yet, i still hear "Oh, you have signal here?" when im out in the country/rural areas.
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CellStudent

Dec 19, 2010, 12:33 AM
CamelTowing said:
Unfortunately it just looks like you guys are afraid to admit he was right about the issue.

You mean- credibility matters? On hte interwebz?

Who knew?
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CamelTowing

Dec 21, 2010, 12:38 PM
CellStudent said:


You mean- credibility matters? On hte interwebz?

Who knew?



I'm not even really sure what you actually mean here.
But just to clarify, you were WRONG and the guy you constantly criticize and accuse of being wrong was actually CORRECT.
I was correct about the issue as well, but there's no need for me to gloat. I knew I was correct when I typed the words. 🙂

Let me know how your written dispute to the ITU pans out. 🤣
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DiamondPro

Dec 22, 2010, 11:12 AM
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

I'm pretty sure he still working on it considering how little he has been posting lately. I bet its longer than all his post on phonescoop combined and has the words irrelevant in every other sentence. 🤣
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epik

Dec 19, 2010, 4:04 PM
4Gish.
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Slammer

Dec 19, 2010, 5:34 PM
😁
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HawkeyeOC

Dec 19, 2010, 6:19 PM
4G Beta?
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djdanska

Dec 19, 2010, 7:01 PM
They where advertising smartphones a few years ago with max data speeds of like 3.6Mbps as 3.5G. I don't consider t-mobiles 21Mbps cap the same as 3.6Mbps. Thats where i think it does provide more performance, speed, capacity, and better latency than previous 3g technologies. Because it does!
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