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Clearwire to Test LTE, Prove It Can Do LTE Better

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The question I have is...

Azeron

Aug 4, 2010, 5:47 PM
Why? Sprint is already doing Wi-Max. Why do they want to prove that they can do LTE better? Are they going to do it in 700MHz so that their devices can roam off of VZW and AT&T? Is the government going to mandate data roaming? If not good luck getting a competitor to allow your customers to roam on their fledgling network.
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cheech004

Aug 4, 2010, 6:55 PM
just to fill you in, Sprint has 4 times the amount of spectrum that Verizon has. So when they decide to roll out more data they have the Spectrum set already for it.
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Slammer

Aug 4, 2010, 8:58 PM
Correct!!!! People that put Sprint down, do not realize that Sprint has been preparing for the future of data usage for many years. Sprint amassing the large amount of spectrum over the years, has put them in a very comfortable position. They have enough to push more data than all US carriers combined.

John B.
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Azeron

Aug 4, 2010, 9:25 PM
I just want to know the purpose of this exercise. If they are going to go it alone then does it matter if it is Wi-Max or LTE. By all means, I would love to see Sprint build out a boat load of spectrum.
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Slammer

Aug 4, 2010, 9:57 PM
This is essentially the equivalent of VZW's claim of coverage. While the others are claiming LTE as their next initiative, Sprint is truly in the position to put forth the claim of the best LTE experience and can actually back up this claim.

Since the world is settling on LTE as the standard, Sprint and Clearwire are acknowledging this fact and are prepared to offer both. And they can because they have the wiggle room.
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Jayshmay

Aug 5, 2010, 1:32 AM
So now that you have had your Evo for approximetly 2 months, what do you think of the wimax coverage where you live?

When I had Clear here in Las Vegas wimax coverage was ok, there were a few spotty places though, like in Henderson.

What about the fastest speed you've ever got?
The fastest I ever got in Las Vegas was 15mbps, I even got 11mbps one time on the strip bus while moving in front of Wynn & Encore.
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Slammer

Aug 5, 2010, 5:41 AM
The coverage is spotty here too. The interesting point here though is that, even though Sprint owns 51% of Clearwire, Clearwire is the sole initiative in building out the WiMAX network. This means that Clearwire's infrastructure, is supplying WiMAX. This explains the spotty coverage."If" WiMAX is integrated with Sprint's network, the coverage will improve dramatically and be far better.

I was able to successfully obtain a speed of 10Mps only a couple of times. The average has been roughly 4-6Mps. I am quite happy with that. ๐Ÿ˜
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Jayshmay

Aug 5, 2010, 5:51 AM
So have you gotten the 2.2 update on your Evo? I was brave enough (with the help of Menno of course) to manually update my Droid to 2.2.

Web browser is indeed faster.
It is nice to be able to stores apps to memory card now, but very, very few developerse havde updated their apps to be able to be stored to memory card.

I literally only have 9 apps stored on my sd card. I really wish developers would update their apps to include this feature!
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DE 2 Philly

Aug 5, 2010, 10:04 AM
I agree; wish more would develop to save to SD; and my average here in Wilmington, DE is 3-6MPS - Fastest I got was 7MPBS.
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Jayshmay

Aug 5, 2010, 10:13 AM
That's it 7mbps? Well its still better than what most 3G can do.
Your probably lucky to even have wimax in Wilmington, Del.
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Jtandt

Aug 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
you all bit into the "4g" wimax scam
and now they want to switch and do lte
typical sprint
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Slammer

Aug 6, 2010, 11:45 AM
All due respect, WiMAX is not a scam. It is a valiant m ๐Ÿ˜ˆ ove on Sprint's part to bring an inexpensive 4G experience to the table. It also has aggressively pushed the other carriers to take notice and light the fire under them.

I worry about what scam LTE is going to bring. WiMAX is built on an all inclusive offering buffet. Up until LTE is launched, everything about LTE has appeared to be Ala Carte.

John B.
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waldorfsalad

Aug 5, 2010, 6:09 PM
A bold claim. It raises questions... If Sprint has amassed more spectrum than the Big Two... and has "enough to push more data than all US carriers combined"... why are they consistently churning over customers? Why would ATT and Verizon allow their lead to so easily be usurped, when they have MUCH more cash on hand to do something about it? And lastly, why would Sprint not do EVERYTHING in their power to market this information in a way that impresses consumers to stop jumping ship to other carriers? ๐Ÿคจ
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Slammer

Aug 5, 2010, 6:33 PM
Data is the way of the future. The world is now just beginning this venture. Very young yet growing quickly, communication through data transfer is key in reaching this apogee. Sprint is in the best position to offer up what can be achieved through this era. Consumers are ignorant to reality when savvy marketing is initiated by companies.


Sprint has been tagged as taboo and has undergone disgrace and humiliation. I truly feel Sprint has reached the folcrum point in this labeling. While not alot, Sprint was able to gain subscribers. These subscribers are reaping the benefits of Sprint's dramatic improvement of customer service. The word will get out.

Change does not happen overnight, but does require aggressive moves and tenacity in ...
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Slammer

Aug 4, 2010, 9:44 PM
This is a very good question. I hope I can answer it correctly.

Sprint has been preparing for this era for years. While many carriers were busy swiping up other smaller carriers for subscribers, Sprint was busy horting precious spectrum for the future. Spectrum large enough to push the limits of what Wimax and LTE are designed for. The other carriers now realize the direction of the future, but were only able to acquire limited bulk spectrum. Even though VZW acquired a substantial amount of spectrum for coverage, it is only enough to handle a small amount of duties. In short, the other carriers will offer alot of sizzle with LTE, but no steak. Backhaul and the amount of spectrum is crucial in obtaining the power for pushing the envelope i...
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DE 2 Philly

Aug 5, 2010, 10:12 AM
Now I want a steak!
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Slammer

Aug 5, 2010, 10:29 AM
Sprint's will be done very "Well" as opposed to uncooked. Sorry for the play on words. ๐Ÿ˜‰
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CellStudent

Aug 5, 2010, 1:01 PM
Slammer said:
This is a very good question. I hope I can answer it correctly.

Sprint has been preparing for this era for years. While many carriers were busy swiping up other smaller carriers for subscribers, Sprint was busy horting precious spectrum for the future. Spectrum large enough to push the limits of what Wimax and LTE are designed for. The other carriers now realize the direction of the future, but were only able to acquire limited bulk spectrum. Even though VZW acquired a substantial amount of spectrum for coverage, it is only enough to handle a small amount of duties. In short, the other carriers will offer alot of sizzle with LTE, but no steak. Backhaul and the amount of spectrum is crucial in obtaining th
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CellStudent

Aug 5, 2010, 2:53 PM
Sorry to cut short on that last post. Had some stuff to do.

Anyhow, it basically means that while Sprint may have 5 times more spectrum then the other competitors, they really have (probably) a little less then double the capacity at full build out.

It also shows that build out costs for the higher bands (2.4 GHz+)are at least TEN times greater then comparable build-outs in the 700 or 850 MHz bands.

Couple those data points with the fact that Clear is actually using a lot of that spectrum (in the super-high 5.0+ GHz bands) to provide microwave backhaul to the network because they don't have enough fiber-in-the-ground access to backhaul over landlines, and things start to look grim fairly quickly...

Sprint and Clear are certainly...
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Jayshmay

Aug 6, 2010, 12:55 AM
Based on this paragraph in your post: "It also shows that build out costs for the higher bands (2.4 GHz+)are at least TEN times greater then comparable build-outs in the 700 or 850 MHz bands." Perhaps your post is the reason even though Sprint gained 111,000 or so customers this most recednt qtr, somehow still managed to loose approximetly $880 something million. Due to the buildout of the wimax network. They still have some more high profile markets to launcj later this year.

Damn that's a lot of money to be loosing.
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Section

Aug 5, 2010, 2:54 PM
Huh? You're right that lower frequencies cover more land, but I have no idea what you're calculating using that second table, nor how you're coming to that conclusion.

(Lower frequency = better spectrum efficiency)

Even if that was partially the case, you're ignoring a whole hell of a lot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_efficie ncy
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Section

Aug 5, 2010, 3:15 PM
Oops, that should read "Even as that is partially the case" rather, wasn't contesting that higher frequencies are more efficient, rather pointing out that spectral efficiency plays more of a part than frequency.
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CellStudent

Aug 5, 2010, 4:08 PM
Hurray for simul-posting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_efficiency#Com ... »

Good info, but it lacks some significant detail. Look at the entries for "fixed WiMAX" and "3.9G LTE" and the problem presents itself in the "bandwidth B per carrier" column. The only thing they're really basing their calculations on is the bandwidth, and that's incomplete.

The calculations and discussions in that article are completely silent on the issue of spectrum quality within the radio wave continuum. It doesn't add much to the discussion of spectrum quality and real-world usability because we can only presume they're comparing calculations done with "apples to apples" spectrum, like 850 MHz WiMAX vs. 850 MHz LTE.

We don't kno...
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Jayshmay

Aug 6, 2010, 1:11 AM
Your posts are very, very interesting to read, but sometimes hard for a 'regular' dude like myself to follow.

Personally I'm just looking forward to the day when we have dual-core smartphones, and 20+mbps real world/end user speeds, so webpages load in the blink of an eye, and !!BAM!! the next thing I'm doing is reshaping the webpage to read it.
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Azeron

Aug 6, 2010, 7:04 AM
I'm dizzy. Damn, all I wanted to know is why? They are not going to gain any roaming partners from going to those weird bands because VZW and AT&T are building out on 700 AND have no reason to let Sprint roam on their networks in any case. So why not stay the course with Wi-Max?
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Slammer

Aug 6, 2010, 12:41 PM
In talking with an inside source at Sprint engineering, roaming will no longer be needed by Sprint in the next 2 years. While he is not at liberty to disclose any info, he said that WiMAX is only the first step in the foundation of what they have on the design table and why the push for early adoption. It is not so much an LTE vs WiMAX scenerio, but rather the fastest progression to 4G to achieve their future plans.

He also stated that their massive holdings of spectrum has unleashed a great potential in their innovative plans to expand on the 4G platform.

Technology won't stop at these two 4G formats. So I am looking very forward to some more Sprint technology news.
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Azeron

Aug 6, 2010, 1:51 PM
If they have enough spectrum to blanket the U.S. with Wi-Max/LTE then I could see them going to VoLTE, VoLGA or One Voice as a solution. That sounds very cool. I wonder though. There used to be a guy who signed all his posts 'AJ' who claimed Sprint has enough spectrum to cover the U.S. but chose not to.
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Slammer

Aug 6, 2010, 2:19 PM
You would be talking about WiWavelength. I have no idea what happened to him. He was probably rubbed out by an angry PS reader.

It is true Sprint and Clearwire own more than enough spectrum to cover the entire nation. I cannot vouch whether or not they chose not to, but rather it may have been the lack of money to build it out.

Sprint did best when attached to the cool factor. Just as ATT is with the iPhone. It's cool. People are drawn to this. Sprint is reverting back to this and I for one, will welcome the return. they have always been innovative and we shall see more of this from them.
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CellStudent

Aug 8, 2010, 5:05 PM
Slammer said:
In talking with an inside source at Sprint engineering...


As I am busily on my way to a career in telecommunications engineering, I would be really, really interested to know what your contact has to say about my analysis here:

https://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?fm=m&ff= ... »

Did I get anything wrong in my mindset here?

My further research also indicated that I think Clear is 120 MHz deep in deployed WiMAX spectrum and is still getting slightly inferior performance to what VZW is expecting to get out of 22 MHz of bandwidth in the 700 band. Is that correct?
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Slammer

Aug 8, 2010, 8:26 PM
My inside source is not an engineer. He is someone that does work close with engineering. I am unsure of your quest here to set out to prove VZW's ante on spectrum plans or technological functionality. However, agreeing or disagreeing with what is played with, is irrelevant and somewhat contradictive to what was conveyed.

Since WiMAX and LTE are very similar in their base formats, spectrum does indeed play a role in determining the outcome of what which will perform better. There is no disputing your analysis based on this information. The amount of spectrum held by carriers, does however, help in determining how much more can be acheived through the spectrum allocated.

As a telecommunications engineer student, you are fully aware that...
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CellStudent

Aug 9, 2010, 6:44 PM
Slammer said:
As a telecommunications engineer student, you are fully aware that 4G is not the last frontier. We can only speculate on consistant leap frogging on future technological advances.

My question is why you would feel Sprint is not capable of these further advances?

I was not aware I ever said that, but it is true that they're using larger quantities of inferior resources to try and accomplish similar objectives.

My analysis was of spectrum usage an quality only. I don't think I ever mentioned LTE, WiMAX, 4G or 5G except to get people on the right columns of a table that I didn't write.

While I do think AT&T and Verizon have the upper hand with 700 MHz deployment options (compar...
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Slammer

Aug 9, 2010, 7:47 PM
So technically, you are saying that Sprint's double capacity for more faster and accurate data transfer is somewhat useless for today's and future's data eccentric lives. And with extra spectrum to play with, to develope and innovate within those bandwidths, is a waste of time.

We must remember that Sprint has always been ahead of the other carriers in regards to innovative new ideas that were brought to the wireless industry. You can't think for one minute that engineers like yourself to be, are not wondering what the heck sprint plans on doing with all thier spectrum. I believe there is a lot more to spectrum than just building penetration. Convience for building penetration is very nice but I like the idea of the capacity for expansio...
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CellStudent

Aug 5, 2010, 11:01 PM
Section said:
I have no idea what you're calculating using that second table, nor how you're coming to that conclusion.


For 750 MHz band:

511/(792-777) = (channels)/(bandwidth) = 34 channels/MHz

similar calculations for the other bands...
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Jayshmay

Aug 6, 2010, 1:13 AM
Would've been nice if you were in my math class senior yr in high school.
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crammy1

Aug 6, 2010, 1:39 PM
hehe the course of the topic is a little too funny to me, shows that bloggers are geeky hehe... i think to answer your question of why their getting LTE when they already have wimax and why their announcing this is for shareholders, this is a business and while tech issues count, money flow is of much importance, they know that there is a lot of news going around about wimax "losing" in the 4G popularity they need to say that, first wimax is compatible and they could easily switch to lte and now their saying they can deploy both at the same time too, all this is so the shareholders would not freak out and panic and would keep their investments with Clear.
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