Apple Sues HTC Over Patents
The "patents" Apple is claiming (I don't know why they don't just sue every electronics maker)
http://gizmodo.com/5483689/the-apple-patents-****pun ... »
Notice: My legalise is a bit rusty.. but I think these are what the patents translate into. Feel free to correct it if you're more versed than I.
Here is an example of the text:
An apparatus for enabling an object-oriented application to access in an object-oriented manner a procedural operating system having a native procedural interface is disclosed
1. Using a Gesture on the touchscreen to unlock (aka swipe to unlock)
2. Slide Transitions between windows (aka, that it looks pretty when you go from one window/app to the next)
3. On screen keyboards.. That's right, Apple is claiming the patent for USING A ...
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Notice: My legalise is a bit rusty.. but I think these are what the patents translate into. Feel free to correct it if you're more versed than I.
Here is an example of the text:
An apparatus for enabling an object-oriented application to access in an object-oriented manner a procedural operating system having a native procedural interface is disclosed
1. Using a Gesture on the touchscreen to unlock (aka swipe to unlock)
2. Slide Transitions between windows (aka, that it looks pretty when you go from one window/app to the next)
3. On screen keyboards.. That's right, Apple is claiming the patent for USING A ...
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One strategy for patents is to claim an invention by means of doing something everyone already does, but doing it on a new medium (which you didn't invent).
e.g.:
Sure, we didn't invent the Internet, we didn't invent phones, we didn't invent the Internet on phones, and we didn't invent email over the Internet, but we invented email on phones!
The USPTO must be completely illiterate in the world of software and electronics, because they will apparently grant a patent on anything.
It is especially ironic for Apple to play this game, given that the birth of the iPhone was followed by an immediate and as-of-now ongoing cry for Apple to add features which everyone else already has.
e.g.:
Sure, we didn't invent the Internet, we didn't invent phones, we didn't invent the Internet on phones, and we didn't invent email over the Internet, but we invented email on phones!
The USPTO must be completely illiterate in the world of software and electronics, because they will apparently grant a patent on anything.
It is especially ironic for Apple to play this game, given that the birth of the iPhone was followed by an immediate and as-of-now ongoing cry for Apple to add features which everyone else already has.
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First off, you do realize that even though we take these as commonplace, most of them did not exist prior to the iPhone, right?
Take for example the keyboard patent. Apple isn't just patenting an onscreen keyboard but is instead patenting how the O.S. should respond to an on-screen keyboard and inputs regarding it. Quite honestly, nobody figured out proper on-screen keyboard behavior before Apple. Do you think Apple just crapped it out, or spent a good deal of time testing various scenarios?
Do you see the difference? The iPhone's UI isn't great because it's Apple, the iPhone's UI is great because Apple spent a significant amount of R&D getting it to work.
I don't recall HTC ever doing much for on-screen keyboards before the iP...
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Take for example the keyboard patent. Apple isn't just patenting an onscreen keyboard but is instead patenting how the O.S. should respond to an on-screen keyboard and inputs regarding it. Quite honestly, nobody figured out proper on-screen keyboard behavior before Apple. Do you think Apple just crapped it out, or spent a good deal of time testing various scenarios?
Do you see the difference? The iPhone's UI isn't great because it's Apple, the iPhone's UI is great because Apple spent a significant amount of R&D getting it to work.
I don't recall HTC ever doing much for on-screen keyboards before the iP...
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Software patents are Bunk. This is why they don't exist in pretty much any developed country but the US
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Apple, Google, Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Hewlett Packard, SUN, and Palm all originate from the US. 🙄
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and yet apple is not suing any of those companies
They are suing a handset maker (htc) because they see them as a threat.
These lawsuits would only make sense if apple was going after everyone. But they're not. explain that to me.
They are suing a handset maker (htc) because they see them as a threat.
These lawsuits would only make sense if apple was going after everyone. But they're not. explain that to me.
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No... MOST of those patents are related to Android OS, NOT hardware.
In fact, pretty much NONE of them have anything to do with hardware, but are all software related.
How is HTC's implmentation of an onscreen keyboard any different than the default android one? or the LG keyboard? Or the one that is on Samsung WINMO phones? Or the one that is on Blackberries? Sure a blackberry has Surepress, but that doesn't change how the keyboard works, just the type of input needed (like resistive V capacitive).
And yet none of those companies are being sued... why only HTC?
In fact, pretty much NONE of them have anything to do with hardware, but are all software related.
How is HTC's implmentation of an onscreen keyboard any different than the default android one? or the LG keyboard? Or the one that is on Samsung WINMO phones? Or the one that is on Blackberries? Sure a blackberry has Surepress, but that doesn't change how the keyboard works, just the type of input needed (like resistive V capacitive).
And yet none of those companies are being sued... why only HTC?
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Likely because of Android's licensing arrangements. This isn't too different from SCO going after IBM for using Linux.
HTC is likely the first. I'm not Apple's legal department, but my guess is suing HTC makes suing Palm that much easier.
HTC is likely the first. I'm not Apple's legal department, but my guess is suing HTC makes suing Palm that much easier.
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Look, the iPhone is a great device. With that being said Apple IS only sueing HTC because they view them as a threat. I know Fanboys don't like to hear it, but the blue ribbon goes to Menno on this one.
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HTC doesn't sell that many Android devices- the only Android device that sells well is the Motorola DROID.
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Because everyone knows that Moto can't make a decent device free of bugs to save their lives.
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I must respectfully disagree with you. You are forgetting about the HTC Hero which is selling extremely well, the HTC MyTouch which is doing well and the HTC Eris which is not doing badly. How about the Nexus One made by HTC. The Droid is probably the worst Android phone on the marketfollowe closely by the Cliq. It is the most hyped phone and yet they couldn't even get the camera software right. WHy would Apple go after Motorola when they can't deliver a handset that can rival the iPhone.
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The odd thing is the Motorola handsets are the only ones that ever crested above 100k figures a month. The Nexus One isn't selling very well, neither are the MyTouch or G1- certainly not better than the Palm Pre.
My guess is Motorola is next. But I think the case against HTC is clearer because HTC has been knocking off the iPhone back to the days of the HTC Touch.
My guess is Motorola is next. But I think the case against HTC is clearer because HTC has been knocking off the iPhone back to the days of the HTC Touch.
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From my understand Nexus One sold like 20K in it's first week or so. Droid sold over 200k in the same amount of time. So not sure how the Droid could be the worst Android phone.
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The Blackberry Storm sold about the same numbers, and it was the biggest POS I've ever used.
Quite honestly, with Verizon, the worse the phone the better it sells. How else do you explain the popularity of the Chocolate? 🤣
Quite honestly, with Verizon, the worse the phone the better it sells. How else do you explain the popularity of the Chocolate? 🤣
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hey fanboy, should we talk about AT&T with the RAZR?? Or is that wound still sore?
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No they chose HTC because HTC is just a handset builder. They don't make their own Software, so they don't have a patent warchest like someone like Google has.
If they attacked Google (or microsoft) directly, they would find themselves countersued so fast they wouldn't have the time to find another lawyer team.
Palm has their own string of hardware and software patents in their warchest.
If they attacked Google (or microsoft) directly, they would find themselves countersued so fast they wouldn't have the time to find another lawyer team.
Palm has their own string of hardware and software patents in their warchest.
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They do too make their own software. My guess is the outcome of what happens with HTC will result in Apple going after Google.
Google also doesn't profit directly from Android itself (only related software), but HTC does from hardware sales.
Pretty cut and dry, Menno.
Google also doesn't profit directly from Android itself (only related software), but HTC does from hardware sales.
Pretty cut and dry, Menno.
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No, the nokia lawsuits were cut and dry, yet you said they had no merit. those were for actual Circuits and wiring, stuff that is not "broad and general" like gestures.
and it doesn't matter who profits from it, it's who created it. If I created an OS that operated exactly like OSX and started selling it to Alienware. Apple could go after alienware for selling it, but they have to go after ME for the copyright infringement.
and it doesn't matter who profits from it, it's who created it. If I created an OS that operated exactly like OSX and started selling it to Alienware. Apple could go after alienware for selling it, but they have to go after ME for the copyright infringement.
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They'd likely go after you both.
Circuits and wiring are no different than lines of Code. But Nokia's patents were frankly out of date or no longer relevant. Some of Apple's are (some of which apply to rudimentary GUI commands).
Circuits and wiring are no different than lines of Code. But Nokia's patents were frankly out of date or no longer relevant. Some of Apple's are (some of which apply to rudimentary GUI commands).
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Those are licensed by an industry group. 🙄
Nokia's lawsuit against Apple is like Apple suing Google over H.264 patents. 😳
Nokia's lawsuit against Apple is like Apple suing Google over H.264 patents. 😳
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I don't recall HTC ever doing much for on-screen keyboards before the iPhone. 👀
Interesting statement because many of HTC's early smartphones did have a form of touchscreen. These predated the iPhone by 2 years. (the Apache and the tilt) You used a stylus to touch the icons and launch the function. Palms also used the stylus. Almost every phone manufacturer was working on touch screen technology when the iPhone launched. Many put the project on hold to find out how Apple's fared before investing tons of money on it.
My opinion is that since HTC is the fastest growing competitor to the iPhone, Apple is going to do what they have always done and that is stifle competition before it makes inroads into their business with litiga...
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Interesting statement because many of HTC's early smartphones did have a form of touchscreen. These predated the iPhone by 2 years. (the Apache and the tilt) You used a stylus to touch the icons and launch the function. Palms also used the stylus. Almost every phone manufacturer was working on touch screen technology when the iPhone launched. Many put the project on hold to find out how Apple's fared before investing tons of money on it.
My opinion is that since HTC is the fastest growing competitor to the iPhone, Apple is going to do what they have always done and that is stifle competition before it makes inroads into their business with litiga...
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I owned an Apache, and its on-screen keyboard compared to the iPhone's is a perfect example of the validity of Apple's patents. The Apache's on-screen keyboard was near-useless - it was stylus operated, did not always appear when needed, and sometimes refused to dismiss itself. It didn't always recognize the context required for it to work either.
I think there isn't much debate that they are two very different experiences as a result of the software heuristics Apple developed with the iPhone- the same ones Apple is suing HTC over.
The problem is, for HTC to implement a decent keyboard they had to rip off these heuristics. On the one hand, it's going to stifle competition. On the other hand, HTC had been making smartphones for years ...
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I think there isn't much debate that they are two very different experiences as a result of the software heuristics Apple developed with the iPhone- the same ones Apple is suing HTC over.
The problem is, for HTC to implement a decent keyboard they had to rip off these heuristics. On the one hand, it's going to stifle competition. On the other hand, HTC had been making smartphones for years ...
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Once again I must disagree with you. Most of the industry had finger touch screens in development before the iPhone came out. There is no question the initial iPhone outperformed every other touch screen made in the first year or so.
But that same technology existed in ATM machines and certain computers designed for people with special needs years before the iPod touch was out. Why is Apple not suing Fujitsu, Xerox, or HP if the patent was stolen? Or better yet why not sue Archos, Microsoft (Zune HD), Nintendo (DS) Sony (PSP).
By being selective in the suit it is understood it is a defensive maneuver to slow the biggest Android competitor or they would have named others as co defendants.
But that same technology existed in ATM machines and certain computers designed for people with special needs years before the iPod touch was out. Why is Apple not suing Fujitsu, Xerox, or HP if the patent was stolen? Or better yet why not sue Archos, Microsoft (Zune HD), Nintendo (DS) Sony (PSP).
By being selective in the suit it is understood it is a defensive maneuver to slow the biggest Android competitor or they would have named others as co defendants.
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The key difference is Apple isn't suing HTC for having a touch screen, they're suing them for how the software interacts with the touch screen.
Take for example the Hero/Eris/G1/etc.'s scrolling behavior- it's directly copied from the iPhone in how it responds to a swipe that registers at 90 degrees from the horizontal vs. 45 degrees.
This is what Apple is getting at, and it's completely valid.
Take for example the Hero/Eris/G1/etc.'s scrolling behavior- it's directly copied from the iPhone in how it responds to a swipe that registers at 90 degrees from the horizontal vs. 45 degrees.
This is what Apple is getting at, and it's completely valid.
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People seem to not realize (or I guess stay willfully ignorant to support their beliefs) that most of Apple's patents that have been dredged up are very specific to touch screen interaction.
You mentioned that one, but the other one I'm familiar with is in regards to scrolling on a document, whereby continuing to scroll when you reach the end of the document reveals a background underneath and upon releasing, the document will spring back.
That's a pretty specific behaviour for a touch screen device if you ask me. (And probably the courts too!)
You mentioned that one, but the other one I'm familiar with is in regards to scrolling on a document, whereby continuing to scroll when you reach the end of the document reveals a background underneath and upon releasing, the document will spring back.
That's a pretty specific behaviour for a touch screen device if you ask me. (And probably the courts too!)
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Apple did a lot of little 'niceties' with the iPhone OS to make it feel more human. My guess is Apple doesn't really give a crap if the document 'bounces,' but is rather using it to prove some of the more damning things like keyboard behavior.
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"19. The ability to handle I/O requests within the interface.. "
exactly Menno! apparently Apple invented user interfaces; nay, input / output! i guess i better throw away my microwave, those patent infringing jerks!
exactly Menno! apparently Apple invented user interfaces; nay, input / output! i guess i better throw away my microwave, those patent infringing jerks!
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