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Apple-Nokia Feud Escalates

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This is all such bull****!

evrodude

Jan 16, 2010, 1:37 PM
Nokia was making cellular/wireless technology years before Apple even conceived making a mobile device. Just because iPhone became so ****ing popular in the US doesn't mean that Apple has a right to tell the world-wide Nokia what to do. **** Apple!
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ccareatatt

Jan 16, 2010, 1:58 PM
Same could be said about Nokia!
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CS2006

Jan 16, 2010, 2:23 PM
I think what strengthens Nokia's case is the royalties paid to them for use of the technology. No company pays royalties unless they are thoroughly convinced the other company owns the patent/copyright.

Apple's brand is very hot right now. They could commit many attrocities and still come out on top. But the luster is a little less shiny than it was a few years ago.
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Menno

Jan 16, 2010, 4:08 PM
Actually it can't. Other companies pay royalties to Nokia for the patents they have, and have for years. If they are talking about Multi-touch.. I'm sorry, but trying to patent pinching a screen is kinda stupid.

This is ATT being Spiteful
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ruler_goddess

Jan 16, 2010, 5:10 PM
No this is ATT being desperate lol because they know once they don't have the "exclusive" rights to the iphone then they know they have to get rid of as much of the compition that they can right now before that happens lol. but I agree with the first post F**k ATT and their iphone.
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vampyra

Jan 16, 2010, 6:56 PM
ruler_goddess said:
No this is ATT being desperate lol because they know once they don't have the "exclusive" rights to the iphone then they know they have to get rid of as much of the compition that they can right now before that happens lol. but I agree with the first post F**k ATT and their iphone.



this comment explains what an idiot ppl are.. att doesnt own apple, nor iphone, just the rights to utilize them on the network. they are seperate companies. So AT&T has nothignto do with this suit.
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 7:42 PM
Nice to know I'm not alone here. This involves 2 makers,
*NOT* carriers! I sure would like to know where people came up with this line of thinking!
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vampyra

Jan 16, 2010, 11:52 PM
Jayshmay said:
Nice to know I'm not alone here. This involves 2 makers,
*NOT* carriers! I sure would like to know where people came up with this line of thinking!



i got ya jay! i mean how can people blame a totally different 3rd party.. whom has nothing to do with any carriers
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edzero

Jan 17, 2010, 2:10 PM
Im sick of people thinking at&t and apple have some kind of connection. Aside from being the cell provider for apple thats it. AT&T has nothing to do with the law suits. You people need to get your heads out of your asses. The at&t bashing on this site is ridiculous.
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vampyra

Jan 18, 2010, 5:24 PM
edzero said:
Im sick of people thinking at&t and apple have some kind of connection. Aside from being the cell provider for apple thats it. AT&T has nothing to do with the law suits. You people need to get your heads out of your asses. The at&t bashing on this site is ridiculous.



i agree...thats like blaming the grocery store for your electric bill.. just doesnt make sense...
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 7:38 PM
This has absolutly nothing to do with any carriers, it's between 2 phone MAKERS, I don't know how ANY carriers got into this conversation. The Iphone is also available from quite a few European carriers also!
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Versed

Jan 16, 2010, 7:42 PM
Let them rant, the original post was made in err from what I have read, an accident, geeze let it go. Nobody here is perfect. The rest is just people jumping on their own agenda.
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 7:47 PM
Oh boy ppl with an agenda. Is my favorite website PS becoming political.
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Menno

Jan 16, 2010, 5:14 PM
sorry, I meant apple
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Versed

Jan 16, 2010, 6:45 PM
Menno,
F&^$ both Apple and Nokia, I own both companies phones, and like them both. All a bunch of crap, and you can toss Kodak into my comment with their crap.
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Menno

Jan 16, 2010, 6:58 PM
I'm kinda siding with Nokia on this one.. just because I want to get native multitouch on my phone.
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Versed

Jan 16, 2010, 7:40 PM
Menno said:
I'm kinda siding with Nokia on this one.. just because I want to get native multitouch on my phone.


Fair enough. But you know, thats the real ticket, they want Apple to patient swap. Not so much to get money from them, which in the end, is **** to any of these companies. I think Samsung which all in all sells a **** load of phones, paid them $25 million.
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 7:45 PM
Andy Rubin doesn't seem to be in much of a rush to incorporate multi-touch into Android.
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Versed

Jan 16, 2010, 7:48 PM
Jayshmay said:
Andy Rubin doesn't seem to be in much of a rush to incorporate multi-touch into Android.



Not in the US, look east to our friends in the old world, they do have it.
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Menno

Jan 16, 2010, 8:25 PM
because only in the US can you patent software stuff like that
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 8:30 PM
Yep, that's what I heard. And the Iphone should have nothing to do with this btw, cause the Iphone is also available in Europe where Android does have multi-touch. So I really don't think the Iphone should have anything to do with it.

Seems tn me like Andy Rubin is too much of a woose to enable multi-touch in the U.S.

Cause Engadget did verify that it isn't a hardware issue, but that it's only a software issue.
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 7:33 PM
What does this have to do with ATT??? It between 2 manufacurers of cell phones not the stupid carriers. Besides the Iphone is also available on quite a few European carriers.
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Coil

Jan 16, 2010, 8:10 PM
You mean Apple being spitefull... not AT&T. No Apple is the true Satan.
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Menno

Jan 16, 2010, 8:24 PM
I corrected myself
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 7:30 PM
Same exact thing happened a couple years back between Broadcomm & Qualcomm.

All Apple needs to do is fess up and pay the damn royalties, it's that simple.
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Versed

Jan 16, 2010, 7:47 PM
Jayshmay said:
Same exact thing happened a couple years back between Broadcomm & Qualcomm.

All Apple needs to do is fess up and pay the damn royalties, it's that simple.


The should, but also both sides claims are dubious, the GSM standards can be considered public domain, but not sure on it though.

Truth is, they want Apple to do what all other mobile companies do, patent swap. Oddly, on their computer side they do swap technology.
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bluecoyote

Jan 16, 2010, 6:01 PM
Nokia's in trouble. They cover a lot of old GSM patents, but as a handset maker they're struggling. They went from having a near global monopoly to being less profitable than Apple. Their platforms are all terrible- S60 has (sadly) stagnated, and Maemo is too little too late with no competitive advantage. The only Nokia handsets anyone even buys in this country are the cheapo freebies because Nokia's high-end lineup is a train wreck. Let's be absolutely clear: Nokia's best days are well behind it.

Nokia wants Apple to simply hand over their R&D in the user interface in exchange for a bunch of troll patents, which is a common business practice for European companies who no longer feel like innovating (see Alcatel.)
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 7:58 PM
Haven't you seen all the headlines that Nokia is working on completly revamping the code & UI to Symbian? Functions are going to work with less button pressing. And in this year Nokia is putting out half the smartphones they did in 09.

Of course the BIG question about this revamped Symbian is ?WHEN? ?WHEN? ?WHEN?

ATT is too controlling to carry any of Nokia's high-end NSeries handsets. They passed on the N95, passed on the N97. Cause they are too good for ATT. I've been using the N95 for just over 2yrs, and it's kept me happy.
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Coil

Jan 16, 2010, 8:09 PM
While that is completely true Apple has a history of stealing ideas from other companies going back into the 80s.
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 8:18 PM
WoW, that's sad! Well then I guess they've got what's coming to them then.
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bluecoyote

Jan 16, 2010, 8:52 PM
Name One.

If you're going to say Xerox stop right there and Google it.
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hepresearch

Jan 16, 2010, 10:18 PM
You've never watched "Pirates of Silicon Valley", have you?
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evrodude

Jan 17, 2010, 1:08 PM
Apple's point-and-click graphical user interface (GUI) used on their early computers was stolen from Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center). Xerox developed that interface in the late 70's and was using it on their own systems.
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Versed

Jan 17, 2010, 5:49 PM
evrodude said:
Apple's point-and-click graphical user interface (GUI) used on their early computers was stolen from Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center). Xerox developed that interface in the late 70's and was using it on their own systems.


That is true, but they also allowed Jobs and the Woz to use it. They never enforced their patent or copyright, in fact they allowed Apple to use it. Most of their computer related stuff, they either did patent swaps, or developed themselves. Everything from Truetype which was theirs, to getting a license from Adobe for Postscript.

If you say Apple is overbearing and control freaks, I totally agree.
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hepresearch

Jan 16, 2010, 10:17 PM
bluecoyote said:
Nokia's in trouble. They cover a lot of old GSM patents, but as a handset maker they're struggling.


I'm sure alot of companies are struggling with the global economy sagging as it has. Nokia is no exception.

bluecoyote said:
They went from having a near global monopoly to being less profitable than Apple.


I'm not aware that Nokia was ever more profitable than Apple... this is like comparing apples to oranges, no pun intended. Apple is a much more diverse company, which makes everything from the Macbook to the iPod. I have no doubt that Apple, being so much more diverse, makes money in more markets than Nokia could ever conceive making money in....
(continues)
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Versed

Jan 17, 2010, 5:56 PM
Actually I do think Nokia wants more to deal with Apple and both their patents, and in this they are correct. I don't think Nokia is a "troll" company. I do think they have lost their way.

I own an N95 and E71, I honestly haven't really liked anything newer, the N97 is a disappointment in my opinion S60v5 is clunky. I do think they lost their way on this, and I do see they are trying to fix that. Problem with Nokia is they did sit on what they had, they got slammed with the iPhone and now they are getting slammed with Android phones.

I do agree with Maemo the jury is out, one phone, even one good phone isn't going to turn it around for them. They need to build on it. I hope it isn't to little to late on this, but slightly think...
(continues)
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hepresearch

Jan 17, 2010, 6:40 PM
I will agree with you, in that Nokia did sit on S60 for too long. Now it is going to take major effort to reverse the problem, but it can be done. The situation is far from hopeless for Nokia.
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Jayshmay

Jan 17, 2010, 7:04 PM
Check this out, this is kinda wierd, this user claims a company has been sueing Apple for 20yrs, but doesn't want to disclose who, this is the internet, people are anonymous here, and yet he doesn't want to say, probably becuase he can't back it up with facts!

https://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?fm=m&ff= ... »
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hepresearch

Jan 17, 2010, 7:29 PM
Alright... hang on, I'm gonna check it out...
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Jayshmay

Jan 17, 2010, 8:05 PM
So did you check it out? What did you think?
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hepresearch

Jan 17, 2010, 8:29 PM
Well, not much comes up apart from the most recent Nokia litigation, but I did find a list of litigations going back all the way to 1978.

It's from Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation »

I checked as many of the sources as possible, and they seem legitimate, although several sections had no resources. All the litigation going back to 20 years ago appears to be already completed, whether in Apple's favor or not.

I find the alleged 20-year old litigation to be hard to believe, especially because any patents over twenty years old are typically expired.

That's the best I can do in an hour or so, but I could keep scouring the internet for days if I needed to, but at this po...
(continues)
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evrodude

Jan 17, 2010, 1:13 PM
That's because Americans are too ****ing cheap to fork over +/- $600 for a phone.
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Versed

Jan 17, 2010, 5:59 PM
evrodude said:
That's because Americans are too ****ing cheap to fork over +/- $600 for a phone.



Not only Americans. Recently Google tossed out the Nexus One for $525 or so, they did sell, and they did sell contract free, but not as mush as they thought. 20,000 N1's were sold in the first week, both with TMO contracts and right out. Far less then the iPhone, the G1, the MyTouch and the Moto Droid.
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Coil

Jan 16, 2010, 8:07 PM
when apple started concieving the iphone or the number of patents they have violated ... not just nokia's. They are being sued left and right you don't know about it all.
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Jayshmay

Jan 16, 2010, 8:21 PM
What I wonder is why are these companies taking over 2.5yrs to sue Apple? That's how long the Iphond has been out.
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bluecoyote

Jan 16, 2010, 9:05 PM
is suing because they went to Apple for user interface patents Apple developed with/for the iPhone in exchange for their "troll" patents regarding things like oh... Wifi. Apple's been selling Wifi laptops in Europe for about 10 years FYI and is itself pretty heavily invested in the standard.

Apple told Nokia to bugger off, and Nokia sued them. Apple countersued, and Nokia came back with some pretty ridiculous stuff. But Nokia operates under the mentality that "we're so big other companies can innovate and we'll copy features in exchange for these old patents." Hell, their CEO admitted it.

The problem is that although the banning of Apple products in Europe would hurt Apple's revenue far more than banning Nokia's products in the USA,...
(continues)
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hepresearch

Jan 16, 2010, 10:47 PM
bluecoyote said:
is suing because they went to Apple for user interface patents Apple developed with/for the iPhone in exchange for their "troll" patents regarding things like oh... Wifi. Apple's been selling Wifi laptops in Europe for about 10 years FYI and is itself pretty heavily invested in the standard.


WiFi was not mentioned to my knowledge... the suit includes infringements on antenna design, power management, camera design, and user interface details.

bluecoyote said:
Apple told Nokia to bugger off, and Nokia sued them. Apple countersued, and Nokia came back with some pretty ridiculous stuff. But Nokia operates under the mentality that "we're so big other companies can innova
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(continues)
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crood

Jan 17, 2010, 8:16 AM
Do you know anything about Apple's company history? They've been swiping technology since the beginning. Everything in the original Mac was lifted from Xerox's Palo Alto Project.
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Coil

Jan 17, 2010, 5:32 PM
the original macintosh computer stole it's mouse pointer technology from printing computer systems that were around in the 70s.

Don't feed me all this bs like you work for them and know their plans, goals, and what they have or have not done over the years in reference to other companies. You're not a lawyer nor do you work at their corporate offices.
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Coil

Jan 17, 2010, 5:28 PM
I don't want to disclose any details but I know someone who has been suing apple for years for stealing patents from 20 years ago.
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hepresearch

Jan 17, 2010, 7:28 PM
Are you serious? This is an anonymous forum... it can't hurt you to disclose such information. Besides, if it has been going on for twenty years, we're bound to find it on the internet elsewhere, so you may as well spill the beans.

No details = nobody believes you
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Versed

Jan 17, 2010, 7:50 PM
hepresearch said:
Are you serious? This is an anonymous forum... it can't hurt you to disclose such information. Besides, if it has been going on for twenty years, we're bound to find it on the internet elsewhere, so you may as well spill the beans.

No details = nobody believes you


I would hope so, but never never assume anything. Courts have forced websites to release information which supposingly safe.
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hepresearch

Jan 17, 2010, 8:07 PM
Perhaps, but just the same, I can't believe everything I see on here just because someone says so. I need to see facts before I'll jump on anyone's bandwagon...
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Versed

Jan 17, 2010, 6:01 PM
Jayshmay said:
What I wonder is why are these companies taking over 2.5yrs to sue Apple? That's how long the Iphond has been out.


Excellent point, not sure if its lets try to troll some bux off of Apple in many of these cases. Leave emotion out of it. BTW, they're even starting to go after RIM.
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mycool

Jan 18, 2010, 4:47 PM
You're right. Nokia should have sued Apple instantly... because you know, Apple discloses what technologies they use, their source code, etc.

Or... what makes more sense is that it took 2 1/2 years to have some evidence of patent infringement. At least, enough to get more through discovery.

By your thought I could sue Microsoft for patent infringement, then demand their source code (as part of discovery) to Windows to prove it. Then, oh... well, I guess they didn't infringe... but now I have the source code.
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vampyra

Jan 18, 2010, 9:24 PM
you do realize that common sense tells us that if one person starts something. patents it, and sells it, and then another does it after them.. its technically patent theft... so yeha apple is in the wrong if they are usign nokias patents.
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