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FCC Wants A Better Explanation from Verizon On ETFs

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Understand

Kilya

Jan 8, 2010, 9:26 PM
There is no need for Verizon to increase their ETF fee. My guess is that people who are using there Smartphones are understanding they can get a much better experience from At&t thus they are increasing their ETF to make it more of a pain in the butt. Noone else is doing this but Verizon so there has to be a reason for this increase. I agree that people should know what they are getting into when they are signing a contract but the ETF does not need to be outrageous. An ETF fee should basically be the discount that the consumer is receiving on the device in my opinion. Example of this is lets say that when you sign an contract the Blackberry Curve is $100. However, when you buy it out right the phone cost $300. The difference between ...
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Jayshmay

Jan 8, 2010, 9:58 PM
The make their money back on the ourageous $30/mo data charges that a re forced on people. And the reason I say the $30 for data is ourageous is because I'm a consumer, not a wireless employee, so therefore I'm not biased or brainswashed by any one wireless company.

I feel data rates should be charged based on speeds, low speeds equal low monthly charge, and not one of the 4 national carriers have the speeds to justify $30 a month!!!
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Menno

Jan 8, 2010, 10:11 PM
No, you're a consumer who knows nothing about the cost of maintaining a network.

Verizon is estimated to have spent 8 BILLION dollars on network costs last year.

Maybe you should take your "everything should be dirt cheap" and try starting your own company.. see how well that works for you.
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Menno

Jan 8, 2010, 10:14 PM
But I hate that mantra of "this is too expensive because I say so" and "im unbiased because I'm a customer" line because you ARE biased. you always want things to be cheaper (as you should)

but that doesn't mean you are any more unbiased than a cell company rep.

is 30 high for low end users? yes. but it's an unlimited plan, meaning that there are people who use much more than the 30 in revenue they generate and verizon (and other companies) have to charge a higher flat rate to compensate.
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Cellinovation

Jan 9, 2010, 11:33 AM
Most people forget that every single cellular tower needs to be connected back to a network operations center via an Internet backhaul. Think about the shear number of users on a single channel. Have you ever had 4 people conencted to a 5 Meg cable connection via wireless? Yet the same bottle neck happens in the cell towers. Only to fix it, they need to increase their number of transmitters, increase their backhaul, etc. BACKHAULING IS EXPENSIVE! Think about how much data a second needs to be accounted for with people using their devices. Now go ahead, research how much it will cost monthly for 1 tower transmit the data to make everything work properly!

Now in any given service area customer will use anywhere from 5-10 cell sites o...
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 11:46 AM
Cellnovation,
Nobody said its cheap to maintain a modern wireless network. And I have little complaints about $30 data on an advanced smartphone, be it an iphone, blackberry or droid. Still a carrier like VZW probably have somewhere thereabouts 30 million smartphone users. At $30 a clip, plus basic plan rates and texting plans per month, they can easy maintain their network and make a good profit.

And yes, I do know they and other carriers pay something to RIM for activated blackberry's.
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Cellinovation

Jan 9, 2010, 12:28 PM
I was just eluding to the fact, that $30 per device is still not as great of a margin as it is made to appear. People look at it as $30 that they pay that costs the carrier nothing. It costs a ton. And yes they do make money on it, but its not an incredible amount per subscriber. As they add more subscribers the backhauls need to be upgraded again. And starts the cycle again.
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 12:29 PM
Of course it costs them, and I understand. Then again, this is a tangent off the topic and as guilty as others in going with it.
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regine44

Jan 9, 2010, 11:53 AM
One thing I have always wonder where does your bill go. Thats alot of what we don't understand and I want to understand.

Example Say your bill is 150 a month.

1. How much of your bill goes to customer service I am sure alot of it does.

2. Tech People who maintain the towers

3. Network Infrastructure the towers

4. . . . more costs of running the company.

Thats what I have always wanted to know they need relase those numbers but I think that they would. Make us the customer understand more about this how much it costs to run verizon wireless.
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Cellinovation

Jan 9, 2010, 12:31 PM
Verizon files quartly reports just like every other corporation. Im sure the reports will break down the categories similar to a profit and loss statement. That should give you a general overview of cost to company, vs revenue. Remember the company has to cover all costs on the services it provides.
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Jayshmay

Jan 8, 2010, 10:14 PM
But they make their money back from the $30 a month data cost.
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Kilya

Jan 8, 2010, 10:31 PM
I actually have to agree with Jay a bit. I actually have been in the Mobile Phone Industry for 5 years now and I have seen it grow leaps and bounds. One thing it definitely has grown in is features. I remember when unlimited text messaging was $10!! Now it is at least $20 for most networks. You can try and say that Verizon is trying to support their network by charging so much but what about Sprint? Verizon's network is big but not a whole lot bigger then Sprint's yet Sprint has a $99 plan that gives Unlimited Everything. Verizon's closest plan to that is $150. I actually like the idea of charging for data plans based on speed. Take ComCast and Qwest DSL for example. ComCast is $30 a month and you get like 12mb/sec. Qwest DSL is $24....
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Jayshmay

Jan 8, 2010, 10:39 PM
This whole thing about smartphones using more data and so on, the whole thing about cell phones is that people are MOBILE. so when somebody is using data, reguardless of what device, they are on the move, and aren't constantly on device.

Anyway, it's nice to finally, finally come across somebdoy on Phone Scoop that feels the same as me. The speeds don't match up with the price.
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Azeron

Jan 8, 2010, 10:54 PM
As messaging costs the carriers nothing, I am on record that they are ALL raping us with the PPU increases we have seen. That's another matter however.
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kevinski

Jan 8, 2010, 11:00 PM
Yes, and there are absolutely no compromises, right?

"Off-network Roaming on Sprint Phones: Not available with single-band phones, or to customers residing outside an area covered by the Nationwide Sprint Network. Sprint may terminate service if (1) more than 800 minutes, (2) a majority of minutes or (3) a majority of data kilobytes in a given month are used while roaming."

What's funny is seeing a customer leave for Sprint, only to come back when they realize that Sprint's just forced them to leave due to their roaming habits. Some coverage.
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Menno

Jan 8, 2010, 11:04 PM
Sprint relies on roaming agreements for a lot of their rural coverage. Coverage in mountains and the like is more expensive than coverage in a big flat area. Their network is smaller than Verizons, especially when comparing data.

Not to mention the ability to get information wirelessly (and mobile connection at that)

500mb isn't that much. That's the problem with the current data structure. you should only have to pay a nominal amount for that data since you barely use any. the problem is that data packages are "one size fits all" because if a company comes out with a tiered plan, they are said to be "greedy" even though it could end up with cheaper rates for low end users, such as yourself.

that is why I'm happy that Verizon i...
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 11:43 AM
"500mb isn't that much. That's the problem with the current data structure. you should only have to pay a nominal amount for that data since you barely use any. the problem is that data packages are "one size fits all" because if a company comes out with a tiered plan, they are said to be "greedy" even though it could end up with cheaper rates for low end users, such as yourself."


Forget that! Then my uber data useage charge will be $1,000,000!!!! Thats not fair!! These companies want too much for dataaaaaa!!

You hit it right on the head with the greedy comment. Its a matter of never being able to please everyone. My feeling is, if you ont want the premium data charges, dont get a device which requires it OR the carriers should allo...
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Cellinovation

Jan 9, 2010, 12:04 PM
Data
-----------

Cable companies are not a fair comparison. Every cable company in the United States used goverment money via the Broadband initiative. The initiative allowed for Fiber Optics to be layed across the country for Major, ILEC's wich they can tap. There was so much of this fiber laid(because its incredibly expensive) we are not even using 1/4 of the dark fiber available in the United States. The problem is the companies that participated in the programs own the dark fiber, and make it difficult to lease access for a reasonable amount. Cable companies have been granted access rights for this dark fiber, and able to lease this fiber at a wholesale rate.
Cellular companies however, are charged a premium rate over wholesa...
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Menno

Jan 8, 2010, 10:45 PM
yes, they are.. but that 30 isn't pure profit. a portion goes back to the smartphone developers, a huge chunk goes back to the network, a section goes back to paying the data, and a small percent is made up in profit

you said a billion dollars profit, right?

So that is 1 billion a month. Let's take that to a year.. 12 billion dollars.

12 billion dollars/85 million customers

that is 141.18 dollars profit per customer. That is a profit of 11.78 a month per customer

(and this is simple math.. it's more complex than that)

The average customer pays what? lets say 70 a month. so that is a profit margin 17% or so.. now that sounds great besides that for a lot of products, especially tech stuff, the profit margin is a lot ...
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Jayshmay

Jan 8, 2010, 10:49 PM
That $1bln profit comment was somebody else, not me.
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Menno

Jan 8, 2010, 10:54 PM
kk
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Jayshmay

Jan 8, 2010, 11:16 PM
Oh right, I need to get out. I'm going to go to Taco Bell and get 2 of those new 5-layer burritos, ...yeah, yeah!!! I'll be back online in like an hr.
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Menno

Jan 8, 2010, 11:30 PM
I havent had taco bell in years... I kinda miss it.. but not really.. you know?
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 11:45 AM
What, you dont miss running for your bathroom and hoping you make it before the cheap meat in those burritos makes its escape? 😛
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 10:18 AM
Jayshmay said:
But they make their money back from the $30 a month data cost.


Without a doubt, and texting. And to be honest thats OK, thats what they are business for. But I'm sure as hell not buying into their idea of a $350 ETF, and their fanboi supporters who come up with massive coccamamie ebay schemes to provides massive losses on resale of Droids.
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 11:48 AM
LOL @ you not believeing people resell those phones. Take a bite of reality for once instead of drinking the kool-aid. I know 6 guys who flipped phones that way between storms and tours. It happens.

And before you cry "Fanboiiiii", I cant stand VZW, I have ATT and Sprint 🙂
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 11:52 AM
bp3dots1 said:
LOL @ you not believeing people resell those phones. Take a bite of reality for once instead of drinking the kool-aid. I know 6 guys who flipped phones that way between storms and tours. It happens.

And before you cry "Fanboiiiii", I cant stand VZW, I have ATT and Sprint 🙂


Damned the truth hurts, and sure they may flip phones on a cdma network, who cares, the new owners of those phones have no other choice but to use them on the carrier branded phones. Still making money, still getting revenue. And btw, I'd bitch if it was Sprint, ATT or whomever. And guess what I have AT&T and use a Sprint data card.
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 12:03 PM
Yes, they have to use them on VZW...but how do you not understand that VZW is losing the subsidiy on the phone that they gave to the person who flipped it and they're not getting the full purchase price the person who bought it off ebay would have paid. And the people who buy smartphones in the middle of their contract are usually techies who already have a smartphone and therefore are paying the smartphone data anyway. So:

Joe gets a BOGO storm 2 deal.

Joe sells the second storm to Billy on ebay.

VZW loses (under old ETF) 500-175 = $325
VZW misses out on $500
VZW gains - 0 (Plan never changed for Billy)

Total if Billy had bought the phone from VZW $500

What VZW got when he got it off ebay - $-325

Thats an $825 swing. G...
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 12:09 PM
bp3dots1 said:
Yes, they have to use them on VZW...but how do you not understand that VZW is losing the subsidiy on the phone that they gave to the person who flipped it and they're not getting the full purchase price the person who bought it off ebay would have paid. And the people who buy smartphones in the middle of their contract are usually techies who already have a smartphone and therefore are paying the smartphone data anyway. So:

Joe gets a BOGO storm 2 deal.

Joe sells the second storm to Billy on ebay.

VZW loses (under old ETF) 500-175 = $325
VZW misses out on $500
VZW gains - 0 (Plan never changed for Billy)

Total if Billy had bought the phone from VZW $500

What VZW got when he got it off eba
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 12:15 PM
I didnt say they LOST 825. I sait the differentce of what they would've made and what they actually lost is 825.

And if Dude B was ALREADY paying the same befor as he is after, there is no difference. VZW is NOT making the money up they lost on Dude A because dude B is paying the SAME AS HE WAS BEFORE. So VZW still loses the discount they gave on the handset.

It's a loss in most cases and sometimes a wash.
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Menno

Jan 9, 2010, 8:22 PM
I brand new customer (most of the flippers) creates a lot more revenue than someone who goes from a blackberry to a droid without signing a new contract. By buying the phone from ebay, that customer can avoid signing a contract, and a lot of people are moving from one data device to another so their is no increased revenue. Not to mention if the phone is hard to find (ala the original storm) for every one flipped on ebay, that is TWO contracts lost. both the Flipped contract, and the contract of someone who would sign up/upgrade for that device.

We've tried explaining this before.

Not to mention, a ton of the Storms flipped were unlocked for Tmobile/ATT
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Azeron

Jan 9, 2010, 2:12 PM
I don't know why paying a company $250 monthly is supposed to make me feel good. That is the weirdest thing to me. People just don't believe that someone could simply believe that it is wrong for the government to over reach its bounds.
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 2:40 PM
I believe it's wrong when the Gov't goes over its bounds. I also don't thinkthis is a matter that the government should be involved in.

And if youdon't like what you're paying, you have the option to find a service that is more in line with what you'd like to pay. There is no shortage of choices.
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Azeron

Jan 9, 2010, 2:51 PM
I don't like what I am paying. Simply, I realize that there is no free lunch. My point is that it is crazy to be attacked as a fan boy when I am paying money and do not work for VZW.
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 3:08 PM
Fair enough.
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Jayshmay

Jan 9, 2010, 5:24 PM
If somebody OWNS a phone, then it's their right to do with it as they please. Same thing with anything else they OWN.
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 5:49 PM
True, and since they broke the contract the signed, VZW has the right to charge them the ETF they agreed to.
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Menno

Jan 9, 2010, 8:11 PM
so you can get a car on a loan, and then not pay the loan company back once you sell the car?
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Jayshmay

Jan 9, 2010, 8:24 PM
Having to pay on a loan implies that the person doesn't OWN the car, something isn't OWNED until it's paid off, I did use the word OWN in my post. And if someone pays the ETF they OWN the phone. And from that moment forward it's their business, and their business only what they do with their phone, that's their property. And yes, there are a whole lot of people on ebay that are stupid enough to pay more than retail for a phone.

I checked ebay last night, and there are actually people stupid enough to pay more than the $529 that Google is charging for the Nexus One, there were at least 6 bids on one that was up to $570, so somebody is making at least a $41 dollar profit on top of what Google charges, and yet Google doesn't seem to care.
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Menno

Jan 9, 2010, 8:36 PM
because they got the money they asked for the device.

Look, when you buy a phone at a discounted price, you are only GETTING that price because you agreed to go 2 years with that carrier. If you get the phone then switch back to an old one to make some profit, they don't care because you're still paying them back for the phone through the contract.

You don't "Own" the phone after you breach the agreement that got you the phone. That is what I'm trying to say. It's the same thing if you went to a dealership and got a car for "no money down" for signing a 4 year loan and then you stop paying and sell the phone at close to new cost and pocket the money.
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arich97

Jan 10, 2010, 2:40 PM
You own a phone as soon as you sign the agreement/buy it/etc. The companies aren't going to come and repossess your phone when you don't pay your bill. The agreement is for the SERVICE. People switch phones all of the time. I can't take a loan out to buy a car, then switch VINs of one car to another to the bank. The bank will ask for the payoff of the loan for the VIN number I took the loan out for. VZW or ATT or whoever, isn't going to make you pay a termination fee if you just switch phones. They don't care which phone you have as long as you pay your bill for the life of the contract.
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Menno

Jan 10, 2010, 3:30 PM
exactly. They are saying "If you don't pay us x, you need to pay y" It's not the same as a car, but Jay seemed to be implying that if I got a contract phone I should be able to get out of my contract etf free, which is not true
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Azeron

Jan 8, 2010, 10:25 PM
Yes, I have an 8330 with a Unlimited Email and Web for Blackberry feature AND an XV6900 with an Unlimited Email and Web for Smartphone AND BBA Connect for $30. If I did not think it were worth it I could remove the data plans from the 6900 (as it is a grandfathered phone from Verizon's data plan requirement). I could also switch the 8330 to one of the dead phones I have laying around here. Why don't I do it? Because it is worth it by my estimation. You don't have the right to determine the value of these features for a company and neither does the FCC. If you don't want it...don't buy it. Cell phones are NOT necessities. Now if someone is selling bags of ice after a hurricane for $10 or gallons of water for $5 THAT is something I can...
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Kilya

Jan 8, 2010, 11:06 PM
Azeron I know reading can be sort of a difficult task but you may need to reread my posts. I never once tried determine that Verizon or any other network's pricing however I do think it needs to be reevaluated. If I was trying to determine their pricing I would have told you what I thought I should pay. Again most carrier's are going to pay the same amount to support a network and if Sprint and TMob can do it I am very sure that Verizon can as well. Assuming that none of us work for Verizon corp then we don't know what the network cost is. Some phone features may need to be required for some people. As an example I have a disabled friend that requires a keyboarded phone and trackball, alot of the features he needs resides in a blackber...
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Menno

Jan 9, 2010, 12:47 AM
Sprint pays nothing on upkeep fees for thier towers, they sold them to a third party company, and Tmobile is nowhere near the size of even Sprint, much less verizon.

The blackberry data cost, most of that revenue goes straight back to blackberry, since they handle all the traffic. that 30 is from them.

and yes, they are making a profit, but a business only exists if it works to minimize losses. if they only worry about people ripping them off when they are losing money, it's too late.

I agree that they need to look at how the amount pro-rates, but I do not think the 350 is wholly unwarranted (I think it should be as cheap to end a data contract in the 23rd month as it is to end a normal contract now, since the resale value of th...
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Slammer

Jan 9, 2010, 9:14 AM
I see no other feasible balance. Carriers should charge high end pricing for high end deivices. Period. To protect the company with high ETFs, greatly lessens the protection for the consumer. If a consumer experiences less than adequate service, What provision do they have to rectify the situation? Carriers created the subsizing prices to attract. They need to pay or rectify the market practice.

The courtship between private sector and public sector is starting to erode. The carriers are in a position to help stop this.
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Menno

Jan 9, 2010, 9:19 AM
I agree they should charge higher prices for devices. But sadly, with the customer base the way it is.. I can't see them doing it unless all carriers adopt the change.

hopefully the nexus one unlocked idea takes off
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Slammer

Jan 9, 2010, 9:45 AM
I personally am not on board with android yet. Dedicated WinMo user for business. But I also am curious to see how Nexus One will groom the consumer base.

Historically, consumers will whine and cry about changes, but eventually adapt as long as there is proper balance. I feel they would carry this tradition as well with higher out the door pricing. This is what we do now anyway in any other market.

I do feel though that this is the perfect time to groom. The market is saturated, and possible newbies is becoming less. Switch up now and take the pacifier away from the current children. This will pave way for the new traffic as the adoption of 4G becomes mainstream reality.
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 12:06 PM
I can't express how much I would love to see subsidies end. The outcry from all the cheapskates out there who scream about how they want their BOGO Blackberry back would be worth it.
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 12:28 PM
bp3dots1 said:
I can't express how much I would love to see subsidies end. The outcry from all the cheapskates out there who scream about how they want their BOGO Blackberry back would be worth it.


Sure, sell unlocked phones be it cdma or gsm on the open market, I'm sure they won't be near as expensive of what the carriers claim. Or they would be sold for less do other competition in the open electronics marketplace. A new Moto Droid for example would probably go for the upper $300's in cost, be able to be used on VZW or Sprint, or any CDMA carrier. If Sprint pisses, you cancel, go to VZW. Same and a lot easier with the gsm carriers. In the long run it would work in the consumers favor. Short run it ...
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Slammer

Jan 9, 2010, 1:37 PM
Carriers do fear this. It is their natural enemy.

However, Proper pricing out the door is the only logical fairness between carrier and consumer. If something isn't done now, the wireless industry will be further disrupted and infested with consistent questions. Already, there is a 30 percent customer dissatisfaction or discouragement of how carriers are conducting business. Think of the government as being the Better Business Bureau. I believe in a strong private sector as long as it plays well with the public sector. This seems to be failing. That is why carriers should preserve the bridge by breaking the current practice.
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Azeron

Jan 9, 2010, 2:43 PM
Unless all the carriers cease subsidizing phones at the same time, it will place one carrier at a disadvantage. But if the Feds ban ETFs altogether that may force all the carriers to end subsidies.
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 4:39 PM
Very true. As others said we've been addicted to the "free or cheap" phone idea for quite sometime.
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Azeron

Jan 9, 2010, 2:03 PM
Absolutely. Please Big Brother continue your meddling so that this desired conclusion occurs soon.
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 5:08 PM
Thing is people complain about big brother from the conservative view point, they are no better in fact worse. They have no problems when the government is telling you who to screw, how to do it, and what the outcome is, in fact they love to enforce their views of morality on others. But when it comes to economics, they have a big issue with most government policy.
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Azeron

Jan 9, 2010, 5:17 PM
I'm not conservative...I'm Libertarian. Don't expect the government to give goodies without expecting something from you in return. I don't like the idea of being property.
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Azeron

Jan 9, 2010, 2:12 AM
I was talking to Jay. Carry on. *Shaking my head* A whole paragraph for nothing.
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bp3dots1

Jan 9, 2010, 11:49 AM
+1
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Caucasian

Jan 9, 2010, 5:58 PM
What is this strange thing you call "logic", and why on Earth did you bring it into these forums?
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allboutvzw

Jan 9, 2010, 12:55 AM
why are they giving Verizon such a hard time, when google is charging $350 on top of T-mobile termination fee. Consumers getting the Nexus One on Tmobile are looking at $500 dollars in fees in the first 3-4 months but you giving VZW grief about $350.

What's really the issue, did someone at the FCC get their credit denied for a VZW account?
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vz_wireless

Jan 9, 2010, 1:16 AM
Most PDAs/smartphones full retail run $400-$600. Droid $560 as an example. Us California customers pay tax on retail price of phone as well, $45-$50. Either pay $600 after tax for your Droid, or don't complain about the $350 ETF on a $600 phone you can sell online a year later for $250 and recoup your ETF if you did cancel anyway.

If the government wants to get involved, let me writeoff the ETF on my tax return.
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allboutvzw

Jan 9, 2010, 9:18 AM
hahah, good point. I support Verizon in their ETF. They're are already giving you a deal on the phone, by allowing a price cut for signing a contract with them.

If you don't want the ETF, than don't sign a contract, buy the phone at full retail; which is more than the ETF. Seeing the $350 ETF only applies to advance phones, that are probably more than $350.

I just think the government is trying to control too much, and it's getting a little predictable and boring.
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Otowncell

Jan 9, 2010, 10:04 AM
Welcome to the United Socialist States of America!
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Versed

Jan 9, 2010, 11:47 AM
allboutvzw said:
why are they giving Verizon such a hard time, when google is charging $350 on top of T-mobile termination fee. Consumers getting the Nexus One on Tmobile are looking at $500 dollars in fees in the first 3-4 months but you giving VZW grief about $350.

What's really the issue, did someone at the FCC get their credit denied for a VZW account?


No argument, if VZW gets a hard time, so should others.
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shiftmobile

Jan 9, 2010, 10:16 AM
Kilya said:
There is no need for Verizon to increase their ETF fee. My guess is that people who are using there Smartphones are understanding they can get a much better experience from At&t thus they are increasing their ETF to make it more of a pain in the butt. Noone else is doing this but Verizon so there has to be a reason for this increase. I agree that people should know what they are getting into when they are signing a contract but the ETF does not need to be outrageous. An ETF fee should basically be the discount that the consumer is receiving on the device in my opinion. Example of this is lets say that when you sign an contract the Blackberry Curve is $100. However, when you buy it out right the phone cos
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Kilya

Jan 9, 2010, 8:32 PM
Shift I already talked about this and apperently for you reading is a ruff task as well but you need to reread what I said. The point I was making is that if a company overcharges for an ETF they will be making more money then what the buy out cost is. Maybe you can't understand that, so I will make it simple for you peanut. Verizon sells a Blackberry 8530 for $79.99 on a 2yr contract! Great Deal Right. Buy out Price is $359.99. Being that Verizon already got my $79.99 if I am unhappy and now have to pay a $350 ETF that phone just cost me $429.99. I just paid more for a phone that I was unhappy with because of a not needed ETF increase. People are not reading this post properly when I say it needs to be reevaluated. I would say that $1...
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exnizzle

Jan 11, 2010, 12:09 PM
Kilya said:
...Also understand that if start with a company and do not want to sign a contract 2 things happen. 1. The phone purchase must be made at full price.
2. The price of the plan is actually increased....

The price of the plan does NOT change because you buy the phone at retail cost on Verizon.

I do see your point on how you would end up spending more money on some advance devices if you were to cancel early, like in your example, the BlackBerry Curve2, but remember that the ETF is prorated and you also have a 30 day worry free guarantee. If you aren't pleased with your new phone, return it within 30 days, no questions, no worries, no termination fees.

For most people this is an adequate am...
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Kilya

Jan 11, 2010, 12:48 PM
Ya I agree my math is the extreme but at a rate that drops $10 a month after 60 days your still 7 months out before you break even on buy out cost. Either way, this is just like Verzion to jerk their customers around, no other company is jumping on this banwagon for now and there is a reason why, its stupid. But like I said its just like Verizon to pull something like this. At&t is just as large and expensive or network to take care of but they don't pull the stuff at all.
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Versed

Jan 11, 2010, 8:37 PM
Kilya said:
Ya I agree my math is the extreme but at a rate that drops $10 a month after 60 days your still 7 months out before you break even on buy out cost. Either way, this is just like Verzion to jerk their customers around, no other company is jumping on this banwagon for now and there is a reason why, its stupid. But like I said its just like Verizon to pull something like this. At&t is just as large and expensive or network to take care of but they don't pull the stuff at all.


Yet!
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waldorfsalad

Jan 11, 2010, 8:01 PM
Understanding? Or Assuming (they can get a much better experience from AT&T)?
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Kilya

Jan 12, 2010, 1:50 PM
Is that a comment or a question? I personally left Verizon for AT&T because my reception was terrible and I have had Zero reception problems with AT&T. Verizon's "Can you hear me now" guy is traveling the country trying to find a spot where he can talk to the other person on the other end without dropping his call or losing his signal. Not thats just personal opinion. I seriously had no signal in the places I needed too with Verizon. I have always said that if the phone works in your home, and works at your work its a good service for you because those are the places you are the most. In between can be a crapshoot. I moved a couple times when I had verizon and everytime it got worse. So yes, in my opinion you can get a better experie...
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