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Sprint Says No Change In Its ETF Policy

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Thank Jesus, Allah, Buddha And Jehova!!!

deezy17

Nov 5, 2009, 9:30 PM
Man I'm so glad they didn't match Verizon! I expect that every move a successful company makes they will blindly follow suit hoping to be like them. This would have really p!ssed people off cause I know Verizon customers are fuming over this now. I don't need anymore people to call me and complain about the ETF I'm in Billing at a Sprint call center I get enough bullsh*t on a daily basis ๐Ÿคจ Alos to all of you Sprint Customers and Former Customers we are making Great strides in Customer Service Trust me to my great displeasure cause they are drilling us daily even us WHO DO HELP AND GIVE GREAT SERVICE LIKE ME SO BE HAPPY DAMMIT
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Menno

Nov 5, 2009, 9:57 PM
Most verizon customers have no idea about this change, and a lot of the ones that are pissed don't understand it.
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deezy17

Nov 5, 2009, 11:59 PM
Yea but I mean really? 350? Who buys a phone and then cancels like that? Like I'm gonna start a contract to get a phone that I can only use on Verizon (or gsm if its a dual cdma & gsm phone) and cancel then screw my credit up just so I can avoid paying 579.99 for a Blackberry Tour+35 more to get it unlocked plus start up costs for AT&T or T-mobile when I can Easily Pay that For an Unlocked Bold or 8900 from the get go without a contract? Big Red knows it has Idiots Lining up for Android on their high priced a$$ plans and they wanna lock people into a 350 commitment for when they get pissed and leave cause of the sky high bills and bad attitude they their CS has seemed to pick up since they became the Number 1 network Just because they think ...
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
You have a 30 day trial period to use the phone to see if you like them.


To get out of the contract without ETF:

1: Have someone assume the liability of your line
2: wait until contract (1 or 2 year) is over


To continue with verizon without the droid:
1: Buy a cheap flipphone on ebay and drop it to voice/text only.
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Slammer

Nov 6, 2009, 9:25 AM
Roughly 72 percent of CS complaints generate from billing issues. By the time these issues emerge, the 30 day trial is gone locking subs into a two year road of hell. Verizon is not immune to this. Raising the ETF to 350 is a hurdle that I would highly caution individuals on. I understand subsidizing costs for carriers. Unfortunately it is the price of doing business with the wireless indusry's present practice. I have heard the billing issues across the board for all the carriers. Good and bad comes with all carriers but raising the ETF, greatly swipes the ball from the customer's court. It is very discouraging and I have a hard time supporting this move.
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Azeron

Nov 6, 2009, 9:56 AM
I don't blame you. Hey! Don't support their raising the ETF. It's like this... It's a done deal. If Verizon is the only carrier with this ETF amount, then the other carriers should take advantage and grab some subscribers. Here is what we know: If someone buys a smartphone from Verizon...they really mean it. Does it mean Verizon is "greedy"? If the answer is yes. So what? When has corporate America done anything in the name of anything but making money? Strip the veneer away and they are all about the money. Again. Where is the outrage that all these carriers are charging for SMS and MMS without their being ANY cost above what it costs to own a wireless network. ALL that cake and it costs them NOTHING. You sit their and take ...
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Slammer

Nov 6, 2009, 10:25 AM
Exactly! There are so many ways that carriers are making money through the subscribers that most of us(I am a subscriber) never see. The carriers are not starving by any walk.
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Jayshmay

Nov 6, 2009, 1:47 AM
How hard is it to understand? You want to leave Verizon before the 2yr contract is up and you have a smartphone, then the person will be to pay twice what they had to pay before this went into effect.
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 9:08 AM
Most of the "wtf" comments are by people who think they will be charged for switching from a smartphone.


And for carriers, less than 5% (not including sprint) of their customers terminate before contract is up. take out the flippers and you have a lower number.


Does the new etf suck? Heck yes it does. But I understand why it happened, and since I die phones retail it doesn't really effect me.
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Jayshmay

Nov 6, 2009, 10:17 AM
What are "flippers"?
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Overmann

Nov 6, 2009, 10:23 AM
Flipping 101

1: Sign up new 2-year plan with a free (or really cheap deal) desirable expensive phone
2: Cancel service, keep the phone, pay the ETF
3: Sell the phone on ebay as "almost new" for less than wholesale
4: Repeat
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Jayshmay

Nov 6, 2009, 10:47 AM
Well if someone pays the ETF they OWN the phone, and therefore if they want to sell a phone that they OWN on ebay, then that's their right, just like it's their right to sell anything else they OWN. Am I not understanding something?
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Overmann

Nov 6, 2009, 11:06 AM
You are not understanding how much money Verizon loses per phone from these ebay flippers.

Example...

$500 smartphone goes on sale free after rebate
flipper buys like 50 of these on a new business line
flipper cancels all the lines and pays the $175 etf's
After activation costs and etf's and prorated service, it comes to like $250 per line paid to Verizon
flipper sells all of them on ebay for $400, making nearly $150 per phone

Flipper is now $7500 richer, and Verizon lost $12500 on that deal. On ONE deal. This happens often, so to stop people from cheating the system by paying in total half of the phone's wholesale cost, the raised ETF prevents people from doing that to make a quick buck.

If YOU were running a big business an...
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Jayshmay

Nov 6, 2009, 11:11 AM
Like I said, once someone pays the ETF, they OWN the phone and are free to do with it as they please.
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Overmann

Nov 6, 2009, 11:16 AM
And companies have the right to make sure you pay what is due. If you want to disconnect after one month of owning an uberphone that you got on a super low deal, its your responsibility to know how expensive these things are and how much you will be paying for buying a phone and cancelling service well before the point where service paid > phone cost.

In other words, if you want to buy a smartphone and own it and do whatever you want, go buy one retail no contract!
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sugarb85

Nov 6, 2009, 3:39 PM
Exactly. I believe if you want to get the disct pricing you should be ready to accept the 2 yr commit and the penalities that come with it otherwise pay retail value.
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Versed

Nov 6, 2009, 4:57 PM
Overmann said:
And companies have the right to make sure you pay what is due. If you want to disconnect after one month of owning an uberphone that you got on a super low deal, its your responsibility to know how expensive these things are and how much you will be paying for buying a phone and cancelling service well before the point where service paid > phone cost.

In other words, if you want to buy a smartphone and own it and do whatever you want, go buy one retail no contract!


Its greed, Fanboi, just greed on VZW part and I'm sure some other carriers as well. They aren't hurting, they aren't losing money. I have yet to see documented proof of the crap you speew?
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Overmann

Nov 6, 2009, 5:15 PM
No Mr. Troll, I will not give you proof. You'll ignore it anyway. Now go back to browsing the web on your iPhone and let mom and dad speak.
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 12:11 PM
Yes, they do (and verizon is not preventing them from doing this)

What they are doing is making it less attractive financially to flip phones.

If someone wants to do this, they are still free to do so, but it's going to cost them a lot more (and verizon will lose a lot less money)
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Azeron

Nov 6, 2009, 12:39 PM
Come on Jay! Wireless providers discount these phones to CONVINCE you to sign these contracts. They LOSE money on the phone. Your reasoning only makes sense if customers pay full retail. The phone is only discounted because customer gives word that they are going to stay for year or two (depending on the subsidy). THAT is why the ETF was raised in the first place. Frankly there should be no contracts and no subsidies. Anyone who has ever sold phones and had some customer return after losing or damaging a handset three months after purchasing expecting ANOTHER discount because the first one was "free" knows exactly where I am coming from. The problem is way back when (ca. 2000) GTE sold Startacs for $500. Carriers like SunCom came ...
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sugarb85

Nov 6, 2009, 4:11 PM
Well I don't know about all that. Me personally I'm not made of money and like having the disct pricing offered...but I do not complain about my contract & ETF fees either. Shoot, there have been times when I have not been eligible for an upgrade and really wanted a phone really bad, therefore making the expensive decision of buying at retail value. Which is why I cannot sympathize with anyone who feels they should get a disct but not have to pay the penalities if they decide to break their contracts. At least you know what you are getting into before you sign the dotted line.

I think Verizon is doing what is best for their business and do not fault them. Lets be honest what would we do if we had flippers or disct junkies busting our pock...
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Versed

Nov 6, 2009, 4:56 PM
Overmann said:
You are not understanding how much money Verizon loses per phone from these ebay flippers.

Example...

$500 smartphone goes on sale free after rebate
flipper buys like 50 of these on a new business line
flipper cancels all the lines and pays the $175 etf's
After activation costs and etf's and prorated service, it comes to like $250 per line paid to Verizon
flipper sells all of them on ebay for $400, making nearly $150 per phone

Flipper is now $7500 richer, and Verizon lost $12500 on that deal. On ONE deal. This happens often, so to stop people from cheating the system by paying in total half of the phone's wholesale cost, the raised ETF prevents people from doing that to make a quick buck.

If
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Versed

Nov 6, 2009, 4:54 PM
Overmann said:
Flipping 101

1: Sign up new 2-year plan with a free (or really cheap deal) desirable expensive phone
2: Cancel service, keep the phone, pay the ETF
3: Sell the phone on ebay as "almost new" for less than wholesale
4: Repeat


Cite how often this done please? Or are you just playing fanboi to the massa?
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Overmann

Nov 6, 2009, 5:19 PM
Go on ebay, search Blackberry Storm No Contract (or any super desirable Verizon phone) and tell me how many results you get that were "activated for 5 minutes" or "used only to activate / test" etc. etc. etc.

As opposed to trolling like a 10 year old maybe you can post something intelligent.
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Versed

Nov 6, 2009, 5:28 PM
Overmann said:
Go on ebay, search Blackberry Storm No Contract (or any super desirable Verizon phone) and tell me how many results you get that were "activated for 5 minutes" or "used only to activate / test" etc. etc. etc.

As opposed to trolling like a 10 year old maybe you can post something intelligent.


I'm not the troll, just pointing out how you're a fanboi to the do no wrong VZW. I still need a citation, or are you still talking out of your ass?
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Versed

Nov 7, 2009, 4:59 PM
There are tons of phones on ebay, I bought my rogers htc magic on ebay (unlocked). I still don't see a vast conspiracy. BTW you can also include the iPhones of which people buy and cancel.
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Overmann

Nov 9, 2009, 12:55 PM
Which means AT&T now has a reason to up the ETF for iPhone users in the future. They are the ones that started the whole oversubsidizing smartphone's mess, and they have a bigger reason to close the loopholes than Verizon.
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Versed

Nov 6, 2009, 4:53 PM
Menno said:
Most of the "wtf" comments are by people who think they will be charged for switching from a smartphone.


And for carriers, less than 5% (not including sprint) of their customers terminate before contract is up. take out the flippers and you have a lower number.


Does the new etf suck? Heck yes it does. But I understand why it happened, and since I die phones retail it doesn't really effect me.


If its such a small amount terming with etf's, then it shouldn't effect the bottom line, this is greed, and trying to maintain user base by ANY means.
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 8:25 PM
alright, if you have 85 million customers


5% term.

Let's say only .5% are the flippers (people canceling to make a profit)

Lets say that Verizon loses an average of 275 on a typical flip sale.

.5% of 85mil is 425,000.

So verizon would take a loss of $116,875,000 if only .5% of their customer flipped phones.
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Versed

Nov 6, 2009, 9:51 PM
I still don't see specifics, I see speculation.
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 9:53 PM
I can't give you specifics. I am not a verizon accountant.
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Versed

Nov 6, 2009, 10:39 PM
Then it is as I say, pure greed. And I would say the same if it was AT&T, who can get hosed even more with iPhones. I hope they get spanked well by congress, who is already looking into such nonsense.
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 10:51 PM
unless you are a verizon accountant, your arguments of greed are also speculation
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Versed

Nov 7, 2009, 5:00 PM
Menno said:
unless you are a verizon accountant, your arguments of greed are also speculation


Somewhat true, but I'm not the one changing the bar on etf's, its up to them to prove, not the other way around.
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Menno

Nov 7, 2009, 5:32 PM
I'm sure they have a huge document prepared for the FCC, and might even have on printed on demand if you want to see it. It was actually leaked to phonescoop (and other sites) before they had the employee stuff prepped, so we'll see.
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Slammer

Nov 6, 2009, 11:27 PM
Let's not forget menno that MIRs are the way carriers protect their investment. It also doubles as a cash cow sitting in a bank with up to 21 percent interest being earned. Also, sales promotions given are tax initiatives that help the carriers.

E.G. A carrier offers a phone for 150 dollars after 100 dollar MIR. The interest on the MIR begins immediately after transaction. For a promotion they offer it for 50 dollars. They are allowed to claim the full 150 amount before discount plus collect the interest on the MIR. It takes anywhere between 6 to 8 weeks before processing. Interest is quickly made here. Once attained, they send you your contribution, they keep the rest that now goes into an account again to collect interest, and then writ...
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 11:32 PM
besides that Online, at best buy, etc, you can get the phone without using the mail in rebate.

And yes, they make more money on new acts than they lose on flippers, but that doesn't mean that they won't seek to minimize the losses they take.

If I had a leaky faucet, even if it was only a few drops an hour, I would try and fix it. yes, comparatively it's small, but that doesn't mean I'll just ignore it.

And MiR with Verizon take 2-3 weeks, not 6-8
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Slammer

Nov 6, 2009, 11:46 PM
Since I do not work for any carrier, I cannot position myself to argue at full extent of what you say. But I do know from personal experience and from colleagues, That 2-3 week returns is rather questiobable. There would simply be no point to ask for an MIR if they are going to reimburse this quickly very little is gained.
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Menno

Nov 6, 2009, 11:49 PM
I help all my customers fill out their MiR. most of them get them back before two weeks is up, 90% within 3, typically if it takes longer than 3, there was something wrong with the submission.
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Versed

Nov 7, 2009, 5:04 PM
Meno even though I disagree with you on this etf issue, if I did ever decide to get something from VZW, I'd contact you through here and have you handle it. I happen to mess around last night with the Moto and Eris Droid phones, they were rather nice. The store said still $175 etf.
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Menno

Nov 7, 2009, 5:30 PM
ETf will be 175 until the 15th (I think... could be 14th.. have to check)

And I don't like the new ETF, I just understand why it happened and I believe that verizon will be found to be justified in the change.

I wish that they gave customers the option of paying more up front for the phones for the lower etf, or had it so after a year, it would drop to normal rates, but we'll see. I think tiered ETF's are here to stay, but I don't think they are in their final form yet.

I have a droid waiting to be activated... I was nervous about the touch screen... but I'm freaking loving the phone. My coworkers are creeped out by it though because I have it running on wifi and it growls like chewy whenever I get an email ๐Ÿ˜Ž
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Versed

Nov 8, 2009, 4:54 PM
I've been using Android phones for about a year now, there is nothing to be freaked out about. Activate the mutha.
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Menno

Nov 8, 2009, 4:57 PM
I am trying. Apparently Customer care is backed up (I have an employee account, so all ESN changes go through them) I hope to have it activated by monday/tuesday.


Right now I am running it off of my crappy wifi.. still got some awesome apps though, and I loaded it with a few movies to show off to people. I still can't get over this screen!
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mkl4466

Nov 5, 2009, 11:39 PM
Sprint customers care about ETF's because they want to leave sprint. Sprint doesn't need to raise ETFs because it would only apply to new contracts anyway, and have you seen how many new customers sprint adds every quarter?

Most Verizon customers really could care less about ETF's because they aren't planning on quitting. Verizon has the most loyal customers (lowest churn). The one's that do leave usually quit because they have some crazy expectation of what Verizon should do for them out of some grandiose sense of entitlement. They quit because they didn't pay attention to their plan and went way over and can't afford to pay the bill and or they broke their phone and weren't smart enough to get some kind of insurance and they expect a fr...
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Azeron

Nov 6, 2009, 12:11 AM
You work there don't you? Call center?
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deezy17

Nov 6, 2009, 12:19 AM
Who Me? Yes Can't you tell from the frustration? Customers went nuts when they advertised during the World Series that the Everything Data Was $42.50 per month with for a family of 4 in very fine print lol $129.99+$19.99+$19.99 /4= $42.50 they all called today to switch to the $42.50 individual plan its broken down to that for a FAMILY OF 4 so yes you know that it fries my brain cells hearing all this mumbo jumbo every time something changes. ๐Ÿ˜ณ
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Menno

Nov 7, 2009, 2:17 AM
sounds like when I get customers in my store who want to add another line to their account for 9.99 when they have a nationwide loyalty 50 plan... (that is 20 a month)
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kabukijoe

Nov 6, 2009, 12:13 AM
Verizon just couldn't live with the fact that they were the most expensive in every department, EXCEPT ETF's. They seriously must possess some kind of brainwash device that they put in their phones to make people like them so much and defend them the way that they do. I talked to someone the other day that had 6 lines through Verizon with unlimited everything, and she was paying $1200 per month and thinks Verizon is awesome! I seriously felt dumber after talking to her... the same plan on Sprint would have saved her $22,000 over the course of a 2 year contract. If I were to pay Verizon that much money, their network better be able to teleport where ever I want and when I want.

And all the no coverage claims are BS, I switched and my phone...
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mkl4466

Nov 6, 2009, 12:47 AM
Verizon never claimed to be the cheapest. They don't have to be. Their customers are extremely loyal. A verizon customer won't switch because if they did, then talking to all their friends who have verizon would use up their friends minutes. It's crazy, but thats how verizon customers are. Even if you give them a free phone and a cheaper plan and no activation fee and show them a map that says another carrier has service, they still won't switch. Verizon customers feel like they are part of a club, and if they switch they won't be in the club anymore.

As far as being the most expensive in everything, they actually lowered their deposits. AT&T now has the highest max deposit.
And when it comes time for an upgrade, Verizon has NE2 credit, ...
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Azeron

Nov 6, 2009, 12:53 AM
No, I meant you. You work for Verizon, don't you?
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Azeron

Nov 6, 2009, 1:06 AM
Wow! Really! I guess my question is: Why does it bother you that someone is willing to spend more of THEIR money because they have been 'brainwashed' by Verizon's excellent commercials? You appear to be churning inside. Hey! It's NOT your money. Chill out! Have a Coke and a smile! Congratulate Verizon on bribing Consumer Reports and running a magnificent ad campaign.
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sofa_king_good21

Nov 6, 2009, 9:13 AM
Verizon stays pimping their customers. Good job Sprint.
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Azeron

Nov 6, 2009, 6:56 PM
I guess he has 89 million happy wh0res. You know what they say: You can't save a h0 who doesn't want to be saved. So you guys are wasting your time. If Verizon's customers are happy tricks who love bringing daddy that cash, I guess that makes you guys haters who are jealous that he has those fine young tricks happily giving it up. All this vile from people who are not even Verizon customers.
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